Post B1Fwz8dHTD3ERPEQr2 by wtrmt@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by wtrmt@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #B1FvQCOxMiYY2aJ888 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T00:29:09Z
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So a few months back I found a study that tried to do the "mirror test for consciousness" on ants. I remember not being very impressed with the journal where it was published, though I found the topic fascinating. Anton Petrov has now mentioned this study in one of his videos, which means it's going to spread more. So... how do the ant people feel about this?https://www.journalofscience.net/html/MjY4a2FsYWk=@alexwild @MyrmecolNews #ants #ant #myrmecology
(DIR) Post #B1FvYLLXzYtK6Fb2Qa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T00:30:38Z
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Here is Anton's video, he's pretty popular for science news, but he only really knows about space. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnioeAtloY
(DIR) Post #B1Fwr1rkkCkn8d8O4u by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T00:45:13Z
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For the record... I don't find the idea of ants having some "self recognition" impossible or even unlikely. What I'm getting hung up on is the idea that ants would pay attention to a mirror. Ants have poor vision, they are tactile creatures. But maybe they ONLY pay attention if their reflection changes?
(DIR) Post #B1Fwz8dHTD3ERPEQr2 by wtrmt@mastodon.social
2025-12-15T00:46:39Z
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@futurebird or a chemical mirror
(DIR) Post #B1Fx58lHu2UYZxq4yu by punishmenthurts@autistics.life
2025-12-15T00:47:43Z
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@futurebird @alexwild @MyrmecolNews .I, for one, find it hilarious when people declare themselves to have, "consciousness." It's weird and meaningless and it's the latest meaningless reason for humans to feel special..A critique, not having watched yet, is photons are not real ants and if you can't smell the other ant, they're not real or relevant (this, if they fail). Mostly humans are fascinated by things that look but aren't real, I'm not sure that's something to boast about..Sorry.I'll watch in the morning. š
(DIR) Post #B1Fx9v0QTSTlMdCLfk by 20000lbs_of_Cheese@freeradical.zone
2025-12-15T00:48:35Z
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@futurebird a similar thing for many prey birds, extremely poor depth perception, but close to 360 degree awareness. There's a big mirror outside I had to turn around cause one of the turkeys kept trying to fight it, but when it gets warm I should see how geese, chickens, and the other turkeys think about it
(DIR) Post #B1Fxpzqir9wIY3iwGe by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T00:56:12Z
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@michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews It's very contrived how we keep trying to get animals to do "tests" that are centered around things humans care about. People think it's significant to see "yourself" in a mirror. I suspect that "ant ideas" don't have exactly parallel concepts. That is, I don't know what the test would prove if it worked. Ants *do* care a lot about having the same pheromone profile as their colony.Ants do some things we can't. No one likes to sit with that truth.
(DIR) Post #B1Fy1Kn9Kjn8gYSVnc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T00:58:15Z
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@michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews If more people would just spend sometime watching ants carefully you'd see them making decisions, being confused, getting frustrated, feeling panicked or scared, and being sleepy. You'd see them struggle and fight each other over who gets to do an task and then stomp off and walk in circles when they don't win.There is a lot going on.
(DIR) Post #B1FyC7w9T3V60CoeDA by Da_Gut@dice.camp
2025-12-15T01:00:11Z
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@futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews Iāve noted more than once that there is as much going on in your backyard as there is on the African Serengeti. Mind you, it is at a smaller scale.
(DIR) Post #B1Fyya9Trt5RPS9i2y by Neat_hot@beige.party
2025-12-15T01:08:57Z
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@futurebird My (extremely limited) person observation of ants once lead me to conclude that they are blind, which I subsequently learned is not actually true, but if so then they wouldnāt know what a mirror is.
(DIR) Post #B1Fz840yCzesdKhDPs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T01:10:42Z
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@stefani @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews Bringing this one back again:https://sauropods.win/@futurebird/112660744608093675
(DIR) Post #B1G0B7zLzRIVmUxsxM by dpiponi@mathstodon.xyz
2025-12-15T01:22:25Z
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@futurebird @alexwild @MyrmecolNews I started reading a book on the subject of animals doing mathematics but I had to stop because it annoyed me too much by asking what I felt were the wrong questions to ask of animals that are superbly adapted for their environments.
(DIR) Post #B1G0DLrfN195OcQh8K by nosword@localization.cafe
2025-12-15T01:22:49Z
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@futurebird Maybe ant scientists are like āAre humans even conscious? Their collaborations are spotty and conditional, and they seem not even to notice their own scent, let alone recognize it. Incredibly, they must resort to simple heuristics, such as identifying as the source or ādealerā of an odor to the first individual to sense it. (They appear to react to reflected light but their primitive water-balloon eyes are clearly insufficient for true image capture)ā
(DIR) Post #B1G0f6IOqeWXDcAKbA by nosword@localization.cafe
2025-12-15T01:26:28Z
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@futurebird āDid Who Deny It Supply It? Rethinking Negotiations of Identity in Human-Human Interactionsā
(DIR) Post #B1G0f7ClT5bu2QXLSC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T01:27:52Z
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@nosword š¤£
(DIR) Post #B1G0q8GFshEGV2QHDc by Bfordham@infosec.exchange
2025-12-15T01:29:07Z
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@stefani @futurebird @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews probably because weād drown.
(DIR) Post #B1G0qA3vBWYG5MfSGu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T01:29:50Z
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@Bfordham @stefani @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews How smart could a creature that could *drown* possibly be?
(DIR) Post #B1G0sISyuR1sjJPKeu by Bfordham@infosec.exchange
2025-12-15T01:30:16Z
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@futurebird @stefani @michaelgemar @alexwild @MyrmecolNews not very, Iād say.
(DIR) Post #B1G2Xjdgt15WpcjwCO by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T01:48:52Z
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@CptSuperlative Doing bee things for bee reasons.
(DIR) Post #B1G4bB3PcBIadOXXiy by fishidwardrobe@social.tchncs.de
2025-12-15T02:11:55Z
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@futurebird @alexwild @MyrmecolNews i'm not sure that, even if you can come up with a mirror test that would work with an ant's sensorium, it would be testing conciousness.i mean, what if ant conciousness rests more at the hive level? testing an individual ant would be unhelpful.
(DIR) Post #B1Gdfh7XpYHzdpMWsC by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-12-15T08:44:59Z
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@futurebird @alexwild @MyrmecolNews I remain convinced the author of the mirror test for ants paper intended to be mockery of the whole concept of mirror test.