Post B132UpUe8eeJ42e3Fo by unfa@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by unfa@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #B132UktdEKfEo5IR0K by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-08T18:45:58Z
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I've just finished watching #theMatrix trilogy.I guess one of the perks of being sick is that you have time for #movies.I know the third film is regarded as the weakest of the three, but honestly I think it's probably as satisfying of a finale as it could have ever been.I haven't read reviews because I like to try and make my own theories about why it is so.I'm gonna mark toots with spoilers, let's have a nice discussion about these films. How did you like the trilogy? Why?I'll start...
(DIR) Post #B132UmO9gKfrR2aKDg by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-08T18:53:24Z
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The trilogy finale is kind of a downer. We lose two of our most beloved characters. They won't even have graves to be remembered by. On the other hand, we save Zion, and there is peace between machines and humans. How is that peace going to carry on? That is interesting. Are human batteries going to be phased out? Everybody flushed down the drain? How would Zion feed them all? The sky is still "scorched". What can humans pay with for their freedom? Hugs'n'kisses?
(DIR) Post #B132UnQfoSHaf8lqme by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-08T18:59:35Z
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Let's assume that there *can* be a more upbeat ending to the Matrix trilogy that seems at least as plausible as the one we got. Could Neo do the stab-in-the-guts quicksilver absorbtion trick that Smith does, and destroy him this way? Then maybe Neo would become a benevolent "deity" in the Matrix. Could that be a way to get peace? He threatens the machines that he would wake everybody up and by doing so, cut the power to the machine city - that'd resemble...
(DIR) Post #B132UoNsGLdbckT83k by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-08T19:04:05Z
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... it'd be like the Trinity holding the "french man" at gunpoint. If the machines destroy Zion, then humanity "loses" anyway. So, in theory, Neo could just as well shut down the whole Matrix by waking everyone up. Zion couldn't rescue everyone, but at least they would be free from slavery. Mostly dead, but free! Would Neo be cold enough to do something so devastating? Kill millions to save the chance of freedom? That's almost a "trolley problem".
(DIR) Post #B132UpUe8eeJ42e3Fo by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-08T19:07:12Z
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I think something like that could be a more satisfying ending. Sure, Neo would seem more like a cold-blooded murderer than a martyr, but... well, it would be more fitting to play some Rage Against The Machine at the end, I guess?Now that I think of it, the third film doesn't have much in terms of gubslinging action. There's the whole "dock shootout against the sentinels" thread, but there's no slowmo in there! The only slo-mo I recall was Neo vs Smith...
(DIR) Post #B132Uqn7JT1B5cIJgP by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T19:17:10Z
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@unfa > could be a more satisfying endingone word: consent
(DIR) Post #B132Uu3BCCeJCIpgdU by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-08T19:12:59Z
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These slow-mo punches seemed to be entirely computer-generated imagery though. It didn't feel as personal and authentic as effects in the first film did to me. Sure, the spectacle of the third film was incredible. The set pieces were amazing, but I feel that in scaling up so much it becomes harder to relate to. It seems like a common issue with a lot of sequels in fiction. You can't do the same thing again, so you go bigger, but bigger isn't always better!
(DIR) Post #B13DBogxzbNMZZXnlI by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T21:17:03Z
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@unfato elaborate:Everything in the movie revolves around choice.Resistance doesn't free anyone from the Matrix without first giving them choice.In 2nd movie, when Neo met the Architect, Achitect did not force or trick him into entering the Source. He gave him a choice.Finally, when Neo destroyed Smith, that was by Smith choosing to infect Neo.1/
(DIR) Post #B13DSKLm3WrnONVKtc by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T21:20:02Z
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@unfaMeanwhile, the one who didn't give others choice is Smith. He infected other programs and people by force. That's what makes him the antagonist.If Neo was to infect others by force, he'd become just as bad as Smith.If Neo was to free people from The Matrix without giving them choice, he'd be a villain.2/
(DIR) Post #B13DuQgw4YrNASnpjM by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T21:25:07Z
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@unfaNow for the practical matters:- I think Neo didn't understand how Smith infected others, so he couldn't do that himself. He only understood it when Smith infected him, and only with that understanding, Neo was able to defeat Smith.3/
(DIR) Post #B13E3A5RB6uaH7QXWy by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T21:26:42Z
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@unfa- The machines were capable of some form of survival without human batteries. They were also short-term-capable of exterminating escapees. Also, Matrix was going to crash anyway, because Neo didn't go to the Source and do the reset procedure. So Neo freeing everyone would be the same as Neo doing nothing. There was no way for Neo to make any threats here on top of what he already did by not going to the Source.4/
(DIR) Post #B13ECW92XIQ3IFZbfc by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T21:28:23Z
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@unfaTo sum up, I think your idea for an ending would be both inconsitent with in-universe facts established in prior parts of the story, and, even if consistent, they'd be actually a worse ending, undermining a large part of the movie's message.
(DIR) Post #B13FCc6gTA8Zjq55Vo by fraggle@social.coop
2025-12-08T19:50:52Z
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@unfa the thing that annoyed me most about it was the unresolved questions about how Neo could be connected to the Matrix without a physical link and use his powers in real life. It was never actually explained. I actually liked Reloaded for its world building and because I think it had some interesting ideas, but found Revolutions disappointing for that reason
(DIR) Post #B13FCctxVxYKCf8RJg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T21:39:29Z
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@fraggle> how Neo could be connected to the Matrix without a physical link and use his powers in real life. It was never actually explainedGood point! I suspect there was a deleted scene or subplot that addressed this explicitly. But my head canon is that the squiddy was disabled by the Oracle, the Architect, or Deux Ex Machina (the meta-entity Neo bargains with in the machine city). Because they were still hoping they could somehow get Neo to the source.@unfa
(DIR) Post #B13G0hMJDUZYVSGuRs by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T21:48:38Z
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(1/2)@wolf480pl > Meanwhile, the one who didn't give others choice is SmithExactly! Smith represents choicelessness. He talks about how he was compelled to keep going, irresistibly fixated on his one purpose; destroying Neo.When Neo allows Smith to assimilate him, that takes away Smith's purpose. The one thing holding him together since the end of the first movie. By giving him what he wants, Neo defeats him ('be careful what you wish for').@unfa
(DIR) Post #B13Gbk04MKcVPeX5Bg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T21:55:17Z
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(2/2)It's why Neo says "because I choose to" in that tone of sudden comprehension. He's realising that while he chooses to fight on, Smith has no choice, his very being bound to that one irresistible purpose. So without that purpose, no Smith.
(DIR) Post #B13H06LYvV1nfaCZKS by fraggle@social.coop
2025-12-08T21:59:38Z
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@strypey @unfa right, but it runs throughout the third film too, which opens with Neo "in the Matrix" even though he's in a coma in real life, and he is later able to see even though he becomes blindI (and I think probably many others) was expecting maybe some big reveal that the "real world" was just another matrix. But nope, never happened. All we got was "the power of the one extends beyond this world" which is entirely vague and open to interpretation
(DIR) Post #B13HgkCn7j1xS2Qtjk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T22:07:24Z
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(1/2)@fraggle > it runs throughout the third film tooOh true, I'd forgotten about that. I guess that was my theory after seeing Reloaded and I'd never updated it. Bang goes my head canon : PBut yeah, I suspect studio interference after all the criticism of the wordiness of Reloaded.@unfa
(DIR) Post #B13HziS1rzyhVqbfl2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T22:10:50Z
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(2/2)I'm guessing there were more explanatory scenes in the original script, which the studio forced them to cut in favour of more action. Which would explain why some of the action scenes seemed excessive, or entirely out of place. The pep talk the old Gunny gave before the squiddies broke through seemed like it was cribbed from an old war movie, and that whole battle felt like it had been padded out, ironically dulling it's emotional impact for me.
(DIR) Post #B13JYWfhl1CV4LALMO by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-08T22:28:23Z
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@strypey ok, but how is that different from what Neo did in the first movie, where he removed Smith's purpose to serve as an agent?At that point, it made things worse.Why was it successful the second time?
(DIR) Post #B13K8MEa2bmF7fZ3ZY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T22:34:50Z
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@wolf480pl> how is that different from what Neo did in the first movie, where he removed Smith's purpose to serve as an agent?Smith explains that during their first encounter in Reloaded IIRR. Something replaced or overwritten, or wording to that effect. The purpose of destroying Neo overwrote his original purpose (destroying Zion), holding him together in a mutant form.
(DIR) Post #B13KVIMuZzMvnIOmyu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-08T22:38:56Z
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@wolf480pl"I was compelled to stay. Compelled to disobey. And now here I stand because of you, Mr. Anderson.""We're not here because we're free... we're here because we're not free. There's no escaping reason, no denying purpose, because, as we both know, without purpose, we would not exist.""We're here to take from you what you tried to take from us. Purpose."https://www.moviequotedb.com/movies/matrix-reloaded-the/quote_14951.html
(DIR) Post #B14Rtd2iG5QHhXSeUC by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-09T11:36:29Z
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@wolf480pl thanks! It actually makes me feel good that it's not this easy to come up with a better ending :D
(DIR) Post #B14TTBBhOsE7goBEAK by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-09T11:54:10Z
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@strypeyI just realized: Smith succeeded at removing Neo's purpose. Neo has freed humanity, nothing more for him to do.
(DIR) Post #B14cp8GZqE9IaU0LLs by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-09T13:38:58Z
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@wolf480pl> I just realized: Smith succeeded at removing Neo's purpose. Neo has freed humanity, nothing more for him to doYup. Which is why it's heavily implied that he dies at the end. Same as Smith. Two sides of the same debased coin, to quite Bob Black. Which is one a long, *long* list of reasons why the Resurrections fanfic makes no sense, and should never have been made *shudder*.
(DIR) Post #B14cy3KbYixBt78ruC by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-09T13:40:35Z
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@strypey fortunately I have not watched that fanfic
(DIR) Post #B14dZbn8Or21TkOWa8 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-09T13:47:23Z
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@strypey Also, in a perverse way (by computing a transitive closure of the "purpose" relation) Smith's goal is to free humanity (because that way he can get rid of Neo's purpose)I wonder what'd happen if he realized that earlier, and pulled off a Monte-Christo-esque "I removed everything you care about and made you live to witness it and suffer" except he removed Neo's purpose by negotiating a peace between machines and Zion before Neo could.
(DIR) Post #B14dlM8aQWkwP61w5g by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-09T13:49:31Z
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@strypey though I guess it wouldn't work - similar to how Smith had a new purpose forced onto him when Neo removed his original one, Smith removing Neo's purpose would make Neo choose a new one.
(DIR) Post #B15GTnanVWimYOqQvg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-09T21:03:17Z
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@wolf480pl There's no reason for Smith to assume that would destroy Neo, since it's a thematic choice by the scriptwriters, rather than a logical narrative consequence. Also, I think this endows Smith with a level of agency he doesn't have.(see what I did there : P)
(DIR) Post #B15GxSi9hyJCTlQmDQ by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-09T11:34:56Z
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@fraggle @strypey right, the rules of the fictional world seemed to all fall down one by one until there was nothing to relate to. If I recall there is a good "rule" about writing fiction (science or otherwise): whatever the rules of your fictional universe are, they must be consistent and obeyed at all times. Otherwise, people can't care. Same with game design. It seemed that too many rules were broken in the last Matrix trilogy film.
(DIR) Post #B15GxU4AfbVsgKjsAa by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-09T21:08:36Z
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@unfa > the rules of the fictional world seemed to all fall down one by oneWhat story rules fell down apart from needing a physical connection to access The Matrix?That was a pretty huge one. Although I don't think Neo uses a physical connection to access the Matrix again until the end. Where it's implied that the purpose of that is to give him root access to the Matrix so he has a chance against mega-Smith, rather than him needing it.@fraggle
(DIR) Post #B15HYAL8yUGEDUAXKq by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-09T21:15:20Z
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@strypey but Smith's goal isn't to destroy Neo, only to remove his purpose.Also, I think Smith has enough reasoning capacity to come up with this. And if he did, I think it would be within his ability to pursue his purpose in that manner - he used not-by-the-book methods in his previous life, no reason he couldn't in this life.His judgement could be clouded by his hatred though (how human of him...).1/
(DIR) Post #B15HkApKzQU7Ca19gu by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2025-12-09T21:17:30Z
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@strypey However if Smith knows that Neo is capable of choosing another purpose, then yeah, he wouldn't do what I suggested.
(DIR) Post #B15Qjf3xzFViH6gtBA by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-09T22:58:09Z
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@strypey @fraggle Good question. I admit I wrote that more based on a gut feeling than concrete evidence, but my thinking was along these lines:1. Neo can now affect Sentinels in the real world - how?2. Neo's mind is now in The Matrix, with no physical connection?3. Neo's body now lives without his mind present??4. They download Neo's mind back into his body and he's totally back to normal???5. Neo now sees "energy" after getting his face fried????
(DIR) Post #B15R5Muy8A5CMypi1g by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-09T23:02:02Z
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@strypey @fraggle after it was established that Neo can be in the Matrix without having a physical connection, I suppose machines plugged him into the source so that Smith can be destroyed. I guess by "absorbing" Neo'd mind, Smith gets connected to the source through Neo's body - and gets deleted. But why doesn't Neo get back to life like he did in the first movie? I expected him to be back after that...
(DIR) Post #B15ezMSUKAn4Z8XbWK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-10T01:37:54Z
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(1/?)@unfa > I guess by "absorbing" Neo's mind, Smith got connected to The Source through Neo's body - and got deletedMy head canon is that he'd absorbed everything in the Matrix, including the Source, so absorbing Neo connected him with the Source, rebooting the Matrix. Smith was destroyed like a virus overwritten by a factory reset.@fraggle
(DIR) Post #B15fKFHGDcHANKFQJM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-10T01:41:41Z
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(2/2)One thing we haven't discussed yet is that the Architect's prophecy in Reloaded was fulfilled by the ending of Revolutions. Trinity died, there wasn't a single thing Neo could do to stop it.> why didn't Neo get back to life like he did in the first movie?Maybe he did. The Oracle says to Sati that she thinks the One will turn up again, but does she mean Neo specifically, or the One in general? The ending leaves that ambiguous, very intentionally IMHO.
(DIR) Post #B15g4st9HHMeY1D0Eq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-10T01:50:06Z
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(1/2)@unfa 1) Neo says he doesn't know how (or even if) it was him who disabled the squiddie.2) Fair. Maybe the machines have WiFi tech they don't want humans to know about? Again, Neo doesn't seem to be in control of any of this. Maybe a rogue AI is, eg the Oracle?3+4) See above. His mind may not be gone. Also it's well established that human autonomic functions don't need a mind to operate. People wake from comas and they're more or less fine.@fraggle
(DIR) Post #B15gcfmWVzsRk9DnGq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-10T01:56:12Z
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(2/2)5) This is the most curious one. If some rogue AI deployed some kind of WiFi Matrix connection with Neo, maybe he's seeing via sensors that are still operating in the Logos? I'll admit this is a stretch, but it's an intriguing possibility.Again, I think there were probably scenes in the original script that somehow explained all this. Maybe even filmed scenes that were left on the cutting room floor. The tone of Matrix 3 is much more gung ho than 1 or 2.
(DIR) Post #B16gIMjboenU2K8Qee by unfa@mastodon.social
2025-12-10T13:27:10Z
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@strypey oh, I remember there was the whole thing about Neo having to reach The Source in order to save Zion, but he didn't know why he was there.Hmm... If The Matrix was rebooted, then according to The Architect, there was going to be another incarnation of Neo. I suppose that's what The Oracle referred to in her last line?
(DIR) Post #B17pqJpkCa7jd9EIJU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-11T02:47:03Z
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(1/2)@unfa> according to The Architect, there was going to be another incarnation. I suppose that's what The Oracle referred to in her last line?Could be. She could also mean that although Neo's body died (if it did), some part of his consciousness lives on as a ghost in the machine (literally a deus ex machina). There are many possibilities, and I like that they left it open to interpretation.
(DIR) Post #B17qCD24AZHmuKQnQ0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-11T02:52:53Z
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(2/2)Side note: I read a fan theory that the machine that retrieves Neo's body is Sati's father, Rama Kandra. When Neo meets the family in the train station, he mentions his role in something to do with recycling.If this is true, it points to Neo's body being dead, but ...
(DIR) Post #B17t8vRxNqtZN1fQUi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-12-11T03:25:58Z
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@wolf480pl> Smith's goal isn't to destroy Neo, only to remove his purpose.Touché!> Smith knows that Neo is capable of choosing another purposeI don't think he believes that's possible, for anyone. As such, he embodies the conservative reaction against existentialism, which is (amongst other things) the idea that we can individually choose our own meanings, rather than those being socially created.Which makes Neo the embodiment of existentialism ...