Post B0XrrS1V9gDRRixf6W by AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz
 (DIR) More posts by AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz
 (DIR) Post #B0XkNWuvhBUIG3fm3U by AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz
       2025-11-23T16:44:37Z
       
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       Even the most junior of #IT #programmers know how to write a correct programme in a Turing-complete language. I am, of course, speaking of small programmes that one person can examine its logic in full on paper, not those billions-line-long systems that permeate the industry today.By Curry-Howard, types are propositions, and programmes returning typed values are proofs of those propositions. Therefore, risking over simplification and over claiming, I would posit that every competent programmer is a profferer of proofs.I wonder, then, why every IT coder I have worked with over the past couple of decades—unlike their predecessors—can no longer read #CS undergrad-level mathematical proofs.
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XkNXzDiiVvZegiNk by vikingkong@misskey.vikingkong.xyz
       2025-11-23T16:58:07.501Z
       
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       @AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz Programmers now are not the same they were even 20 years ago. They are "software engineers" now, LOL. That's why.
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XkSvwc4YsxKI2Lgm by vikingkong@misskey.vikingkong.xyz
       2025-11-23T16:59:10.258Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz Programmers these days are not the same they were even 20 years ago. They are "software engineers" now, LOL. That's why.
       
 (DIR) Post #B0Xr8MkVuut43eW85A by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
       2025-11-23T17:47:28Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       engineers have solid knowledge in physics and applied science. they are not engineers. I don't know who they are, really.
       
 (DIR) Post #B0Xr8O9Mi0MOP19USO by vikingkong@misskey.vikingkong.xyz
       2025-11-23T18:13:51.640Z
       
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       @iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org @AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz I always say: "IT guys, stop calling yourselves engineers". It just doesn't work 😉
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XrYezQinKu9w23dI by AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz
       2025-11-23T17:52:02Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @iron_bug I've always tried to explain to IT practitioners that software development is an art form, not an engineering discipline. This is articulated in my article on CS curriculum. But so far, no biters on my line.https://amenzwa.github.io/stem/CS/Curriculum/@vikingkong
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XrYft5Nrr6wY4VNo by vikingkong@misskey.vikingkong.xyz
       2025-11-23T18:18:36.822Z
       
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       @AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz @iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org The art of programming was lost somewhere in 1970s, maybe 1980s. Modern programmers couldn't just even recognize what book I've mentioned here.
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XrrS1V9gDRRixf6W by AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz
       2025-11-23T18:21:14Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @vikingkong In my experience, we lost “programmers” in IT, somewhere in the 1990s. Since the 2000s, most software practitioners left in IT are “coders”.@iron_bug
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XskAWHvyJF5TS91E by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
       2025-11-23T18:00:10Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       it may become an art when mastered at some decent level and with years of experience. the most so called "developers" do nothing but copy-pasting pieces of code from the Internet into primitive dull programs and there's nothing creative. they do the same things for years and get no experience.
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XtZXjtMef7rzJTua by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
       2025-11-23T18:25:11Z
       
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       I started to learn programming in 1987 and I know what it is. but it rarely comes to a state of art in real applied programming "for life". we can only use beautiful solutions in pet-projects and open source, in general. in business it rarely takes that much dedication and usually has no time for makeing software perfect. and I'm perfectionist by my nature and I dislike ineffective solutions,
       
 (DIR) Post #B0XtZZ4qOF141G7jCy by AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz
       2025-11-23T18:37:41Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @iron_bug 👍 I, too, started in the 1980s—I began EE undergraduate studies in 1982, because I was obsessed with electronic and computing. I can attest, from my academic training and industrial experiences that today’s IT practices had declined in quality, no matter the myriad metrics employed.@vikingkong