Post B0MwxCaTYHGhfb8nlg by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) More posts by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) Post #B0MvgVIMdwlSoY8wfA by karolherbst@chaos.social
2025-11-18T11:41:54Z
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seeing people argue about systemd and how it's not UNIX anymore.UNIX is dead, and it's a good thing. just accept it finally.
(DIR) Post #B0MvgdWq2160LkycKm by a1ba@suya.place
2025-11-18T11:42:47.666958Z
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@karolherbst systemd is one of the best things happened with UNIX(it killed it)
(DIR) Post #B0Mw1RskWp7OJH9KaG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T11:46:43.200733Z
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@a1ba @karolherbst Meanwhile Single Unix Specification: System management is out of scope, so none of systemd/sysvinit/upstart/… are UNIX® :D
(DIR) Post #B0Mw48zFEkXgZmTNOS by karolherbst@chaos.social
2025-11-18T11:43:15Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Like I don't get it.. why base _any_ argument on whatever UNIX is, was, will be or never has been.It's just wasted time.
(DIR) Post #B0Mw4HCegm1U3goCPI by karolherbst@chaos.social
2025-11-18T11:44:56Z
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like UNIX was a bunch of corpos who couldn't agree on a subset of APIs to finally agree on a subset of APIs and then sell entry to the big bois club for monis.That was UNIX.
(DIR) Post #B0MwR9ONtZxKUhCaYa by a1ba@suya.place
2025-11-18T11:51:23.218641Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@lanodan @karolherbst some still think of unix philosophy like if it's a specification
(DIR) Post #B0MwX86pZxMAFgqJCi by karolherbst@chaos.social
2025-11-18T11:52:12Z
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@a1ba @lanodan like there was a philosophy to begin with, more like "let's see what we can all agree on. Fine, yeah just... write it down so we can move on" or something.
(DIR) Post #B0MwxCaTYHGhfb8nlg by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T11:57:09.775762Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@karolherbst @a1ba Yeah, I'd more go for engineering principles, and yeah, more focus on having things modular and kept simple to have things being composable.But beyond that it's more ideology and stuff that would differ a lot from one flavor of Unix to another.Also, if you're really going for Unix. All of the modern stuff is extremely bloated in comparison: https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V8/etc/rc
(DIR) Post #B0MxArfO8DTEq6xBWC by karolherbst@chaos.social
2025-11-18T11:57:50Z
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@lanodan @a1ba well.. things are more complicated than 100 years ago.
(DIR) Post #B0MxVHGKfzfC10y3EG by a1ba@suya.place
2025-11-18T12:03:14.190762Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@lanodan @karolherbst with scripts like that I can say that real unix lives in embedded. though modern embedded can withstand much more bloat than pdp11
(DIR) Post #B0My0sC9PbK1XL4sBk by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T12:09:01.705521Z
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@a1ba @karolherbst I'd consider that to be complete garbage for embedded in terms of reliability.Like if there's one thing I'm really glad with distros moving avay from init scripts is them finally getting service supervision after all these decades.(Ironically sysvinit has supervision, configurable in /etc/inittab but it's pretty much only used for TTYs)
(DIR) Post #B0MyakVBUY0c6P5Tcm by mirari@fedi.absturztau.be
2025-11-18T12:11:37.379944Z
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@a1ba @karolherbst @lanodan a lot of embedded use Alpine, which uses openrc
(DIR) Post #B0Myam2Xm0Hss9hdGC by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T12:15:27.308969Z
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@mirari @karolherbst @a1ba I've also seen some debian (with systemd), but more often seen custom stuff like based on buildroot or yocto.
(DIR) Post #B0MyynbnaoE4ggeJRA by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T12:19:50.891128Z
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@navi @karolherbst @a1ba Yeah, also I've long counted OpenRC in the ones with supervision.Caveat being more that packagers can be too lazy to move to supervise-daemon when relevant, which isn't that surprising, last time I used Debian or even OpenIndiana there were a lot of legacy init scripts too.
(DIR) Post #B0MzBvU9cPm8shKhX6 by a1ba@suya.place
2025-11-18T12:22:05.231598Z
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@lanodan @karolherbst @navi few simple shell scripts is enough if the whole thing is literally a kiosk
(DIR) Post #B0MzQnhqp6ZH6Apet6 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T12:24:55.288481Z
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@a1ba @karolherbst @navi Yeah, although given how human-unsupervised those are, reliability is key for those.In fact reminds me of how frequently I'd see a whole bunch of train station kiosks being completely unusable, plus crashed-to-desktop departure/arrival boards.
(DIR) Post #B0MzfoG33SVp9Xz6J6 by a1ba@suya.place
2025-11-18T12:27:33.258811Z
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@lanodan @karolherbst @navi that's true too
(DIR) Post #B0N2u8V2tOFtqgWS0m by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T13:03:50.023817Z
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@navi @karolherbst @a1ba Power cycle ought to work that said for train kiosks you might cause avoidable printer jamming issues if you do this too mindlessly.
(DIR) Post #B0N3rsWtOkaJh1sE8O by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T13:14:37.304187Z
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@navi Yeah, not allowed is a frequent problem, specially if the equipment is costy or would require more access than required (like you probably don't want random employees to have admin access).
(DIR) Post #B0N47m5h6Yh0MCjQdE by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-11-18T13:17:30.063672Z
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@navi Also in the case of say a crash-to-desktop of the kiosk (extremely common with Windows but I've seen that with Linux kiosks too), that can mean complete random people having more access than they're supposed to (say launching any kind of application).