Post B06BQ7STde5faemtG4 by sewblue@sfba.social
(DIR) More posts by sewblue@sfba.social
(DIR) Post #B05PLSG25HcEqmg1YG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:09:32Z
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Mathematics is a language. But innumeracy is also a language and our president is fluent. It's not just that he exaggerates, lies, and says things that make no sense when talking about numbers "often" no this is something deeper. He is deeply committed to *never* speaking about any statistic or numerical fact in a way that would suggest that it's important to understand how basic math works, or even that it exists at all. This isn't just ignorance or laziness, it's one of his core values.
(DIR) Post #B05PLTN9wGuWJB1EIa by labbatt50@mastodon.world
2025-11-08T17:21:05Z
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@futurebird Must disagree. It's more than ignorance and liziness.This person is completely illiterate in my mind.P.S.I have made one mistake breviously in my life.
(DIR) Post #B05PLaOTpl7u5IgspU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:12:31Z
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And perhaps there is something pretentious, anxiety inducing, something deeply nerdy and off putting about knowing your way around numbers. Speaking about them with care. That's our fault, mathematics teachers. We can't keep traumatizing the youth and alienating people from mathematical reasoning. It opens a door for some people to be seduced by the comforting notion that things that you don't understand can't possibly be important.
(DIR) Post #B05PLiIOSH0kaju8S8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:15:00Z
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Often we will pick out some instance of the president making a mathematical error. Abusing percentages, confusing billions and trillions... a lot of people nodding along pretending they agree and understand that he's making no sense... don't really know what we're so mad about. And they don't want to admit that since we make it so clear we think everyone who doesn't get it is hopelessly ignorant.
(DIR) Post #B05PLqefNLa4W8O2HQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:19:58Z
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So, when you point out innumeracy I think you should explain it with patience. Explain it understanding that some people who may be well informed and intelligent in other matters might not understand why, for example, decreasing by more than 100 percent is nonsense. (100 percent is all of something. A 50 percent decrease is half. '100 percent decrease means' it's zero. Decrease by more than 200 percent? means it's less than zero, negative. Negative prices make no sense. )
(DIR) Post #B05dZCPTCXvx6zXU5A by Bluedepth@mastodon.social
2025-11-08T20:12:52Z
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@futurebird I’m terribly sorry, this is somewhat reply guy, it popped into my head with my gift. “those kinds of prices are called muggings” 🤣 I’m more of a muppet for spirit… sorry again. 😊
(DIR) Post #B05foSs2TyxSPrJDJQ by timrichards@aus.social
2025-11-08T21:45:43Z
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@futurebird @FantasticalEconomics Yep it's all about TEH FEELZ with the modern fascist. Anything they want to believe, must be real.
(DIR) Post #B05iIDG3IJuiadqz7A by Felila@mastodon.social
2025-11-08T22:31:13Z
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@futurebird In high school, I loved geometry. Doing proofs was fun! But I noped out of math when I was the only female in an algebra class taught by the football coach (who obviously did NOT love math). It was years later that I took math classes again and discovered that math was again fun. Trig identities, whee!
(DIR) Post #B05iIDlFQKrq9ORtjs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T22:33:01Z
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@Felila I was the only girl (and black person) in a calculus course taught by the wrestling coach. LMAO.I only made it past that one because mom knew calculus and told me she would kill me if I didn't learn it and I think she would have. To this day.
(DIR) Post #B05mdNM5LcSPnv1ROS by QuarkMaker@mastodon.social
2025-11-08T20:14:02Z
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@futurebird The level of illiteracy when it comes to the practical arts explains at least part of why so many can listen to what Trump says and have no issues going along with it, even when it's total idiocy.An uncuriousness about the world around them is one indicator of a right-winger.
(DIR) Post #B05rQTKYJu4aLHyJLE by bradr@infosec.exchange
2025-11-08T12:23:09Z
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@futurebird He is deeply committed to never speaking about any statistic or numerical fact in a way that would suggest that it's important to understand how basic math works, or even that it exists at all. But it is not just numbers, it is reality in general. No commitment to facts, to acknowledging "things as they actually are."Math is used to solve problems, but "solving problems" is not his core value.To be fair, reality itself is "anxiety inducing" for many.
(DIR) Post #B05rQUsyXPCbAL5JdQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:25:45Z
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@bradr I guess the math stands out to me more because I care about it. And so much of it isn't debatable in any reasonable sense.
(DIR) Post #B05rQYFQ2PwBaobmXA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T22:34:55Z
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@Felila To be fair to "Mr. P" he tried. But you could tell the other math teachers cornered him into teaching that course.
(DIR) Post #B05skpfL5Ub1MMy0dE by JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange
2025-11-08T12:39:39Z
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I agree.Donald Trump is NOT a stupid man.Really, he's not.Okay sure, NOW he is struggling with dementia, but he's been playing fast and loose with numbers his whole career. It's a regular trait of con artists. It's like an anti-dog whistle to keep the attention of your marks and make them feel isolated from everyone else. To intentionally confuse useimg numbers to communicate facts with numbers to communicate vibes. For people like us who use numbers to communicate facts, we can't help ourselves but to go for the "Well Actually" when someone says "I'm going to lower prices 200%!" But for the people he's actually talking to, they understand what he's saying - "I'm going to lower prices a whole bunch".@futurebird
(DIR) Post #B05ttwFw3R1gMLzTeq by SpaceLifeForm@infosec.exchange
2025-11-08T23:23:11Z
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@futurebird It is dementia. Full stop.
(DIR) Post #B05zeqvsAGdtEJnQA4 by zenkat@sfba.social
2025-11-08T14:50:41Z
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@futurebird He's literally done this billions of times.
(DIR) Post #B061zGls0Sx34DyrhI by Uair@autistics.life
2025-11-08T12:17:19Z
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@futurebird I personally have a problem with "I'm not stupid, I just suck at math." You don't suck at math. Anyone of reasonable intelligence can handle everything up to calculus. You suck at effort. You'd rather not try to learn math, because it doesn't come as easy as other subjects. Believe it or not, this was me as a kid, but I still put forth the effort because I wanted to be a goddamn educated person.
(DIR) Post #B061zIBmjbH7St74jI by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:22:45Z
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@Uair Fundamentally I agree, although I will try to be nicer about it. Mostly because I think there are barriers (often barriers that serve the powerful) that keep people from learning these things. And no matter how old you are or how late it is if you are willing to try to get it I'll help. I will forget the resentment I feel about it.
(DIR) Post #B061zIpqKfJlT7r4AS by Uair@autistics.life
2025-11-08T12:23:22Z
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@futurebird Good for you.I really want to finish the calc series. Maybe someday.
(DIR) Post #B062x5Eo13KGfk2KbA by philbetts@mastodon.social
2025-11-08T13:02:56Z
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@futurebird there are also patterns that make maths not inherently intuitive; if you increase something by 100% you double it, so you might make a reasonable assumption that if you invert that and decrease 100% you'd get back to where you started. I.e. if an increase by 100% = x2shouldn't a decrease by 100% = /2?Wrong, but not *obviously* wrong.
(DIR) Post #B0646pS3fCqmYuRinA by Uair@autistics.life
2025-11-08T12:15:12Z
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@futurebird I'm curious what level math you teach. Higher math to older kids or basic arithmetic to the young 'uns?If it's arithmetic, would you fail your smartest student for answering everything right by doing it in his head without showing his work? That happened to me. I got zeroes on all the tests with every answer right while the kid next to me got a B+ with every answer wrong, she just filled in a bunch of random digits in the proper format.
(DIR) Post #B065XeTuerUsJOfSkL by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T14:52:27Z
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@zenkat It just keeps increasing very strongly. He never uses numbers correctly they are 1000 percent more wrong every day. We are seeing this happening worse and worse it's going down to levels of incorrect that have never been seen.
(DIR) Post #B066cg2eNt70YLsNFY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:55:04Z
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@JessTheUnstill As a teacher I find projecting intelligence on to other people can be very effective. "You might not have thought about percents for a while, but I'm certain someone like you can see how ... "Then fully explain it as you would to someone who didn't know how it worked. Invite people to join the "we get it club" instead of just laughing and keeping them out.
(DIR) Post #B066chTH4O0EzDL9O4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T13:17:39Z
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@JessTheUnstill I'm always looking for ways to get better at explaining things without any hint of an implication that I'm doing it because I don't think that you know. Enthusiasm can be a good tool here too. "this is just so neat I *need* to gush about it" With men older than me I use "can you tell me if I've got it right?"But the best (and most difficult) is making it as clear and simple as possible. So it doesn't seem like an explanation at all. It's just an extra sentence.
(DIR) Post #B067cnAxxYxcdKNtMe by MegaMichelle@a2mi.social
2025-11-08T14:07:48Z
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@philbetts @futurebird I recently saw a science video that said the star Trappist-1 is "1,800 times less bright" than our sun. I don't like this. I guess that would mean that its brightness is 1/1800th that of the sun, but saying it the way they did is confusing.
(DIR) Post #B067coZ6nHrmwUggdM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T14:09:19Z
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@MegaMichelle @philbetts It's confusing to use a large number to convey how small something is, I agree.
(DIR) Post #B067gPUtwC0IM1QyXI by jannem@fosstodon.org
2025-11-08T12:46:07Z
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@futurebird Without taking away your larger point, we do occasionally see spot energy prices go negative, and negative interest rates were a thing during the recent low interest rate era.
(DIR) Post #B068uOEpW3LGSP9A2K by dawngreeter@dice.camp
2025-11-08T13:03:27Z
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@futurebird I have seen studies that show membership in a group stereotyped as not being good at something actually materially affected a person's performance in said areas. We tend to accept the stereotypes placed on us by society, on average.
(DIR) Post #B068uPQv4abgABoKWG by dawngreeter@dice.camp
2025-11-08T13:03:40Z
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@futurebird In this case, I think many people simply identify with this amorphous "math is hard" group. And it is this more than how math is taught that affects the problem of innumeracy. Because I have seen people who have always done incredibly poorly with math at school but can recite endless sportsball statistics.
(DIR) Post #B068uXiEI7CrqByGbw by dawngreeter@dice.camp
2025-11-08T13:07:40Z
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@futurebird Emergent, sudden realization: identifying as a weirdo who does not belong from a very early age may actually be an excellent way to sidestep such traps. At a cost of various anxieties and trauma down the road, probably.
(DIR) Post #B06AeQKm9hvsETRUDg by oseagh@hcommons.social
2025-11-08T13:25:52Z
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@futurebird @JessTheUnstill I've been following you for a while, always impressed by how clearly your incredible teacher-vibes come through in your posts. Your students are lucky to have you! Are you part of an educator's union?
(DIR) Post #B06B4bJTxSFvoSJs24 by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T12:37:52Z
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@futurebird knowest thou thy numbers, as thou knowest thy beasts, even unto the number six hundreds and threescore and six, thou shalt know thy numbers ...all joking aside, I think we are saddled with an education system, a culture, and most importantly, a mass media culture, which has evolved to make people hate numbers.
(DIR) Post #B06BQ7STde5faemtG4 by sewblue@sfba.social
2025-11-08T14:22:45Z
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@futurebird Not to defend him, but Trump is likely severely dyslexic. In an era where kids were just tormented for it. It probably contributed to honing his bullying skills early, to force other kids to do his work for him if a bribe didn't work. A lot of severe dyslexics take pride in rejecting education because it can be a truly awful experience for them. It is easier to reject education than accept, as someone who is intelligent outside their disability, that you are as broken as the schools are telling you. When my kid got into a school for dyslexia within weeks it was like I had a different kid. School was suddenly something she could excel in.If you want a contrast to Trump for a dyslexic with grace, look to Gavin Newsom. He can't read a teleprompter fast enough for a speech. But he got specialized tutoring as a kid and a family who helped. Unaddressed dyslexia has life long impacts. It doesn't excuse Trump's but gives context to how deeply he rejects even the concept of education.
(DIR) Post #B06BVfOosFZ0IvipJg by BoysenberryCider@mastodon.social
2025-11-08T12:42:00Z
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@futurebird Related, do you know the legal concept of 'puffery'? If I say 'my magic water increases IQ by 25 points', I can be sued for making a false claim.If I say 'my water will make you a thousand times smarter', I can't be sued because the claim is hyperbolic and not grounded in fact. Never mind that the underlying logic is 'it's okay to cheat dumb people', it's established law. Yet numbers lend authority, so advertisers are traditionally cautious to keep any numbers ridiculous.
(DIR) Post #B06BzgCQSoQJTPEhs0 by davep@infosec.exchange
2025-11-08T12:22:53Z
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@futurebird Could you decrease acceleration by over 100%? 🤔
(DIR) Post #B06BzlZIVCgo7myXiK by davep@infosec.exchange
2025-11-08T12:24:55Z
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@futurebird if including a vector or something
(DIR) Post #B06CM7YrPhsQhnQlSS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T14:16:10Z
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@Quantensalat Among adults? At least like 70 percent. It's not obvious, and in many cases the numerical difference isn't that great...
(DIR) Post #B06CTmcV9m1g4dmsa0 by thedansimonson@lingo.lol
2025-11-08T14:58:24Z
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@futurebird I think one thing that’s hard about math education is math is often the first place people are shown that they objectively did something incorrectly, and that stings a lot. Instead of introspecting how they got there, a lot of people just conclude “I’m bad at this.”I suppose the real trick in math ed is getting people to self-evaluate without shutting down or personalizing the critique.
(DIR) Post #B06DIGZY4JSHRsTiWu by JamesHMcLaren@qoto.org
2025-11-08T14:18:24Z
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@futurebird I teach (mostly) basic math at a community college. What I battle most is fear of math brought on mostly by poor teaching in earlier grades. These are kids that mostly struggled in school were either left behind in math or allowed to just pass without really understanding.
(DIR) Post #B06EeSKp7HJEFpjfIO by GutterPoetry@mastodon.me.uk
2025-11-08T14:02:30Z
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@futurebird Isn't mathematics just truth? Fact? The most objective measure? Well, trump is allergic to the concept of truth, and therefore facts, reality and everything which relies on truth, including mathematics, science, etc.Trump believes that truth is whatever he thinks it is. In essence, he believes that he's some kind of god.
(DIR) Post #B06EzkYcYofOqsLK40 by glennsills@dotnet.social
2025-11-08T13:48:27Z
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@futurebird So are you saying that Dr. Oz is wrong and I will not be losing 300 pounds? That's disappointing. Being lighter than air sounded kind of fun.
(DIR) Post #B06GCcvULP9au2k8B6 by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-11-08T12:51:43Z
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@futurebird i would say it's not just a case of not knowing but also not caring, and disdain for anyone who does know or care.
(DIR) Post #B06H0B9trE0hGL718q by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-08T14:29:14Z
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@Quantensalat This is one of the neat wrinkles of how percentages work, but I think the most important thing to understand about percents is that they allow us to compare changes in quantities of different sizes. 1,000 people moving to NYC isn't the same as 1,000 people moving to a town with a population of 300. How do you compare those population increases in a way that makes sense?A fraction could work, but using a fraction out of 100 is very practical and easy to understand.
(DIR) Post #B06JQ6DV3OofNBHdiq by MegaMichelle@a2mi.social
2025-11-08T14:11:53Z
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@futurebird @philbetts People can also get confused about fractions. Yesterday, I myself had to think for a moment about if 1/3 or 1/4 was larger.So I don't know, maybe say that the sun is 1,800 times brighter or something.
(DIR) Post #B06K7AqphOkKCMDkie by sconlan@metalhead.club
2025-11-08T12:30:02Z
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@futurebird I had an exterminator at my house once that was convinced ivermectin cured his COVID. I patiently explained survivorship bias and why his particular experience might not be everyone’s experience and… that’s why we do large clinical trials. I started the whole conversation by acknowledging that his experience was that he took ivermectin and got better, I didn’t dispute that.He was genuinely surprised that, as a scientist, I didn’t lecture him on how “stupid” he was. On an individual level, people are often more reasonable and open to learning than you think based on the stereotypes of group XYZ.
(DIR) Post #B06MqSO1Y8F1WTSx1c by ehmatthes@fosstodon.org
2025-11-08T13:56:29Z
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@futurebird > That's our fault, mathematics teachers. We can't keep traumatizing the youth and alienating people from mathematical reasoning. I really feel like this is a big part of how we got here, that's hardly ever discussed. There's so much resentment on the right. If you dig into that resentment, a *lot* of it goes back to how people felt they were treated in school.When people are told at a young age they aren't smart enough, even implicitly, it stays with them for life.
(DIR) Post #B06N93KgvHfTK1m4PI by LightFIAR@med-mastodon.com
2025-11-08T12:38:06Z
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@futurebird Basic math interferes with attending to his malignant narcissism. May he drop the fuck dead.
(DIR) Post #B06SUjiT2LSIcl3QSu by jhavok@mstdn.party
2025-11-10T13:00:31Z
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@futurebird This could explain Trump's long string of business failures
(DIR) Post #B06XBN6xMCcQmi5ung by jackwilliambell@rustedneuron.com
2025-11-08T18:55:47Z
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@futurebird It's funny to me how this thread turns into a conversation about how the Orange One isn't a 'smart man', completely missing the point of your initial post.And also? Completely missing the (to me) obvious fact there is more than one kind of intelligence and you can be dumb as a rock about engineering principles and math, but smart as hell about people. (Or, like me, the reverse of that statement.)
(DIR) Post #B06eD6BzvlUYZRDtmS by Huntn00@mastodon.world
2025-11-08T17:17:09Z
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@futurebird Yes, manipulation of racist STUPID is his core value, he revels in self serving ignorance because he’d be out of action without it. Ironically, he’s ignorant, but has a talent for appealing to the self destructive dark side that can be tapped in many, apparently without much effort. 🤔
(DIR) Post #B06ea7qPxGiqM26pOq by Benhm3@mastodon.social
2025-11-08T16:39:52Z
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@futurebird I consider myself at least innumerate and possibly discalculic. Which is funny considering my career.Patience is the best, because it's a form of self-blindness too.
(DIR) Post #B0IjzO8j7ep3UFM9L6 by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2025-11-16T11:05:11Z
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@datarama I'd be interested in getting the answer to your question "Why did the practice of writing mathematical proofs first pop up in ancient India and Greece, even though eg. Babylonians had been using pretty advanced maths for millennia without bothering to prove anything?" I never thought about it...(I don't think that I thought much about Babylonian mathematics, actually)@futurebird
(DIR) Post #B0IkGdJfwvlHTlhUJs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-16T11:16:13Z
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@lienrag @datarama Mathematical proofs are as much about philosophy "what (and how) can we know?" as they are about math. In fact, math is simply a subject that is very well suited to deductive reasoning systems. You can accomplish a lot in math with such systems because it's possible (and efficient) to agree on definitions and axioms. This isn't true with ethics, for example. We apply them in math with hidden hubris that they may solve everything eventually.
(DIR) Post #B0IkZ5PwD2W1qTQduK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-16T11:19:33Z
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@Uair I teach grades 5 through 12, and I also teach college level courses. The breadth of what I teach is a little unusual but it gives me an interesting perspective and some very strong opinions on math education because I see where problems start and how they develop. "If it's arithmetic, would you fail your smartest student for answering everything right by doing it in his head without showing his work?"Absolutely not. Unless the question was "explain your reasoning."
(DIR) Post #B0IkkrWDi5IIDLyy36 by Uair@autistics.life
2025-11-16T11:21:38Z
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@futurebird Math is cool because it reduces the variables down to a comprehensible amount. That's the same reason it's fallible. A lot of the things that matter have functionally infinite variables all working against each other on a sliding scale of a gazillion bell curves interacting on a thirty-shitton axis with constellations of exceptions fluttering past like chaos butterflies.and yet I agree with the hubris that we may solve everything with math, eventually. Go figure.
(DIR) Post #B0Il516ZmHVdjnb8ca by Uair@autistics.life
2025-11-16T11:25:17Z
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@futurebird Good to know. But, hell, I already liked you :)
(DIR) Post #B0IlHzGztrZHoweoUK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-16T11:27:40Z
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@Uair It's worth thinking about when you start asking students to "explain your reasoning?" too early and it get in the way of doing the reasoning in the first place. I tend to think that around age 13, 14 these kinds of questions become appropriate. And eventually mandatory. But if I want a student to tell me WHY the question should make that very clear. Most of the time I just want the answer and I want it to be correct.
(DIR) Post #B0IlKI8Qk8gQtmkUUK by DaveMWilburn@infosec.exchange
2025-11-16T11:28:02Z
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@futurebird While I don't disagree that more could and should be done to make math more approachable by all audiences, I disagree that the innumeracy of Trump and his MAGA base is somehow the fault of math teachers.That particular phenomenon is more about their weak character, deep insecurities, and lack of integrity. The reason why they lie, and accept and repeat those lies, is because they don't place as much value in truth as they do in their identities and their place in the social hierarchy.It's a lot harder to teach people to be better humans if their reward structures and their character don't value virtue. And if they don't value virtue, then expecting them to value something as abstract as mathematics is futile.
(DIR) Post #B0Im71jQWEIoDMIC4e by Uair@autistics.life
2025-11-16T11:36:51Z
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@futurebird This was all grade 2-6 arithmetic. I spent years sitting through classes "teaching" things I'd already mastered. It did a lot to break my ability to learn from other people. I have to figure everything out myself because of that lifetime of boredom. (5 years is a lifetime when you're under ten).Becoming an autodidact wasn't all bad. When I was 25, I was schooling my college professors in their own subjects. That has to count for something.