Post AzsV2nZQKsyYMuB5CS by Eliot_L@social.coop
(DIR) More posts by Eliot_L@social.coop
(DIR) Post #AzrmREzjWpWCR6lTOq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:03:20Z
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I'm really excited about how well one of my new lesson ideas for fifth grade CS is working out. I teach them to count in binary early in the class which they LOVE. In the new lesson I have seven sets of cards with numbers and symbols on them from:binaryhexadecimalbase 3base 3 but with different symbolsbase 5 but with different symbolscuneiformdecimalEach set of cards contains numbers from 1 to 150. Student put them in order and match symbols of the same value. It's chaos.
(DIR) Post #AzrmZk4DszFB7dv040 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:04:52Z
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We then work on short conversion programs in python. If anything they come out of it with a better understanding of multiple number bases... but I think we could also learn some things about sorting with some adaptation.
(DIR) Post #Azrmgj71pllkBjYr3I by shortstories@merovingian.club
2025-11-03T11:06:10Z
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@futurebird Why cuneiform and base 3 ?
(DIR) Post #AzrnrvTGKDxDeorgjw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:19:21Z
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I have a worksheet where you add, subtract, multiply and divide words in HEX and fifth graders find this VERY amusing. Things like D6FD-CAFE=BFF(If you know of any good hex math problems like this please share as I collect them. )
(DIR) Post #AzrnyNNPUAwhwVCf9U by Phosphenes@mastodon.social
2025-11-03T11:19:14Z
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@Zumbador @futurebird They taught us other bases in the 1970s when I was a kid. I wonder if it fell out of favor and then came back? You could eat cereal on Saturday morning in 1973 while Schoolhouse Rock taught you base 12 between cartoons:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqGyUvZP0Zg
(DIR) Post #AzrnyOdOoDKVqNgwiG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:20:29Z
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@Phosphenes @Zumbador It has never fallen out of favor with those of us in math who want young people to have a good foundation in discrete mathematics?
(DIR) Post #AzroJkm1guvcaXuWye by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:24:22Z
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@Phosphenes @Zumbador Also, there is a big gap between being aware that "computers use a language of 1s and 0s" and really understanding how that is built in to the way these machines work. Everything must be encoded and decoded. So, I think this concept of encoding and representation is very important. Not so that you can read binary, but rather so you have a clear sense of what it means to use layers of algorithms to take something like an image and make it into binary.
(DIR) Post #AzroRAPwkKag9H7OQS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:25:44Z
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@Phosphenes @Zumbador Computers give the impression of working with the analog, so much of the way we work with them obscures their fundamentally discrete nature. But under the hood? that's still how it works.
(DIR) Post #Azrp5JrJ3yOd0u3t8C by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:32:59Z
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I asked chatGPT to make some problems for me. It couldn't understand what I was asking for. Also they have put up a new paywall today you get five chats a day. Let's see how many people sign up. (I will write a program to make some amusing problems for me, I already have an English dictionary I use for my "wordle cheating" programs... this should be fun.)
(DIR) Post #Azrq1k3Fpy5B2pVZc8 by petealexharris@mastodon.scot
2025-11-03T11:43:30Z
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@futurebird It's not my main objection to generative "AI" but I think a lot of people miss how much more fun it is to work things out yourself. It's sold as saving time or effort, but it's also saving you from having certain (admittedly nerdy) kinds of fun, and I don't want saved from that.
(DIR) Post #Azrq6a7YBdm1h1pExc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T11:44:25Z
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@petealexharris I will not be accused of ignoring this tech and not giving it a "chance" --but yeah.
(DIR) Post #AzrqF9SqfFJxcqsFNY by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-11-03T11:45:54Z
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@futurebird have you tried to doing long division in hex? it's not easy.
(DIR) Post #AzrqGQTysOAQhF0lc0 by gbargoud@masto.nyc
2025-11-03T11:45:55Z
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@futurebird Will you put a conversion for "O=0" "T=7" "I=1" in your program for more options or only use the actual letters?
(DIR) Post #AzrqMfUjyRiuzfLL1c by petealexharris@mastodon.scot
2025-11-03T11:47:20Z
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@futurebird I don't feel I need to give it a chance. If it gets as good as promised, there's no reason for me to learn how to work around its deficiencies now; it'll just be directly and easily usable by asking it questions naturally without any training or practice.If it never does get that good, there isn't any reason for me to use it.
(DIR) Post #AzrqVM95HdfHaaM9bM by albertcardona@mathstodon.xyz
2025-11-03T11:48:50Z
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@futurebird Relatedly:>>> int('111', base=37)Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>ValueError: int() base must be >= 2 and <= 36, or 0What. So is there a standard library function for converting number bases in python?#python
(DIR) Post #AzrqqJykXBpqwzWFyi by noodlemaz@med-mastodon.com
2025-11-03T11:52:38Z
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@futurebird #mathstodon might help!
(DIR) Post #AzrsUgLAugSJqEolyi by roytoo@mstdn.social
2025-11-03T12:11:10Z
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@shortstories @futurebird I'm curious about cuneiform too.I found this page:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_Numbers_and_Punctuation
(DIR) Post #AzrvW8jp7JlG4DjYw4 by Hyperlynx@aus.social
2025-11-03T12:45:00Z
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@futurebird teach em to count in binary on their fingers! ... there's no real reason to do that, but it *is* fun, and means you can count to 255 on two hands. 1023 if you're more dextrous than I.
(DIR) Post #Azrw1rHTYeqJBubCL2 by Ehay2k@mastodon.social
2025-11-03T12:50:45Z
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@futurebird This is such a great thread. #math #teaching #basenumbers
(DIR) Post #Azrw4wBNn2SRGKDWrI by toerror@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-11-03T12:51:18Z
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@futurebird @Phosphenes @Zumbador I remember talking to a guy at a party years back - he was very much an arts person - into opera, all that stuff.. He tells me that computer people are "all ones and zeroes".Me being something of a literallist responded : "Oh... I don't really have to use binary very often". He looked at me rather strangely.
(DIR) Post #AzrwXRgKGq873zHguW by Gobabu@mastodon.social
2025-11-03T12:56:26Z
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@futurebird Not set for british monney units ?Farthings, shillings, pences, pounds, crowns, sovereigns, guineas and florins ?Base twelve, eleven, two, four, oh darn...
(DIR) Post #Azs0CGLJdIJPdEbz60 by n1vux@mastodon.radio
2025-11-03T13:37:20Z
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@futurebird I taught our kid to count in binary on fingers.Her math teachers universally would let her "flip the bird" to annoying classmates since she counted up"One." cnnn8"Two." cnn8n"Three." cnn88"FOUR!" cn8nn and they just adored the mathiness of it, and allowing the mathy transgressive expression was encouraging playful maths.(I never used the thumbs 👍 myself, as with Hexadecimal representation, 4bits per hand was optimal. But yes using both thumbs, could count to 1023.)
(DIR) Post #Azs0D9XGQZY8oDcnr6 by n1vux@mastodon.radio
2025-11-03T13:37:31Z
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@futurebird nice
(DIR) Post #Azs0Lbz2Xh7TM6eNto by n1vux@mastodon.radio
2025-11-03T13:38:25Z
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@shortstories @futurebird Why not?
(DIR) Post #Azs0gMcAsWXflsqnRI by n1vux@mastodon.radio
2025-11-03T13:42:52Z
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@futurebird I trust you used the old joke about why CS folks exchange gifts on Halloween 🎃 🎁. Because Oct 31 = Dec 25 😄
(DIR) Post #Azs4Ou1YKAUbzbeNrU by 3janeTA@beige.party
2025-11-03T14:24:33Z
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@futurebird I liked math and I was good at it. But if you had been my teacher I think I would have LOVED math. This sounds so good
(DIR) Post #Azs727T4TS2OtFLk7k by Scmbradley@mathstodon.xyz
2025-11-03T14:54:02Z
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@futurebird I wrote a python script to find words that are valid hex. That might be useful for finding interesting word problems...
(DIR) Post #AzsBc2U6sXGNg0Dd9U by n1vux@mastodon.radio
2025-11-03T15:45:19Z
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@futurebird a quick scan with English dictionary words finds exactly one triple that work as a hexadecimal sum.BED + BE = CAB Many school districts/admins would frown upon double entendre invited by BED + 12₁₆ = BED + 18₁₀ = BFF (but at least it reserves adultery for adults?)
(DIR) Post #AzsQI99vqs3htjkmES by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T18:29:53Z
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“why don’t the ancient ones have a zero?”twas not invented then, my child
(DIR) Post #AzsRDOIUF2ehM03Dn6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T18:40:14Z
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I just added in the cuneiform with the other number systems on a whim, not really thinking about the implications of it not having a zero (really, I forgot that they didn’t have zero it is a base 60 system, They *do* use place value, but with great ambiguity: it’s one of the things that makes translating old numeric tablets difficult.)This caused many excellent questions!
(DIR) Post #AzsRJ9eTbbMtfa5K88 by shortstories@merovingian.club
2025-11-03T18:41:11Z
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@n1vux @futurebird The writing system has so many rules and symbols it might be more difficult than Egyptian Hieroglyphics which are more difficult than modern Chinese with it's pictograms And also more difficult than ancient Greek, ancient Hebrew or any ancient form of any modern language that is based on a ancient dead languageIs why not
(DIR) Post #AzsROp5YyIapdESPa4 by shortstories@merovingian.club
2025-11-03T18:42:21Z
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@n1vux @futurebird The writing system has so many rules and symbols it might be more difficult than Egyptian Hieroglyphics which are more difficult than modern Chinese with it's pictograms And also more difficult than ancient Greek, ancient Hebrew or any ancient form of any modern language that is based on a ancient dead languageWhere the ancient language forms are usually more difficult than the modern forms for the same languageIs why not
(DIR) Post #AzsRbD4NdXylTxoJMW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T18:44:32Z
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@shortstories @n1vux cuneiform numbers aren’t bad at all. though it’s disturbing how they have place value but no zero
(DIR) Post #AzsSClVqXdCr1IZ7Ng by wysiwyggins@xz.vc
2025-11-03T18:51:14Z
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@futurebird I feel like my whole life would have been different if I could have had a teacher like you in grade school!
(DIR) Post #AzsSFCsPm1yqT1Hm1Q by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T18:51:45Z
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@futurebird place value without zero seems almost as confusing as semantic distinctions between tabs and spaces.
(DIR) Post #AzsSG6UazmCYxMZXfc by stevegis_ssg@mas.to
2025-11-03T18:51:46Z
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@futurebird You are so cool.
(DIR) Post #AzsTXzBN0qoDS2fcqu by shortstories@merovingian.club
2025-11-03T19:06:24Z
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@futurebird @n1vux Try writing a simple sentence with a subject object and verb in cuneiform and you will not find it easy even if the numbers are easy
(DIR) Post #AzsUD9lmYQHy9zKjui by RogerBW@discordian.social
2025-11-03T19:13:46Z
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@futurebird Have you tried balanced systems, e.g. where digits can have values of -5 to 5 (base 11)?
(DIR) Post #AzsV2nZQKsyYMuB5CS by Eliot_L@social.coop
2025-11-03T19:23:04Z
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@futurebird cool! But don't forget that ancient mesoamerican civilizations like the Maya did have a numeral for zero which is often glossed over in eurocentric histories. I'm not sure exactly when this developed but I think it was around the dawn of the common era.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_numerals
(DIR) Post #AzsfANU8CgNpKAxH0q by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T21:16:33Z
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@RogerBW no... oh dear.
(DIR) Post #AzsimS7TiiEyZ6Cr2G by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T21:57:01Z
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@AT1ST @apophis @llewelly This is unspeakable.
(DIR) Post #AzsqdTY5pts21bsy8W by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-03T23:25:04Z
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@Eliot_L The cuneiform system is VERY old. We are talking 2900BC, so the Maya zero, is much later. But also probably independent of the zero from India.
(DIR) Post #AzszHPYgtHqQrjidGq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-11-04T01:01:56Z
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@burnitdown Not messing with that without a big multiplication table at hand.
(DIR) Post #Azt3jSMkRij1UulGJU by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-11-04T01:51:47Z
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@futurebird one teacher in trade school tried to teach my class how to do it but he became so confused that he gave up.
(DIR) Post #AztMTGVse2BTEV1f60 by n1vux@mastodon.radio
2025-11-04T05:21:37Z
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@futurebird @RogerBW {-1, 0, +1} is an alternative, balanced ternary system to the usual {0, 1 ,2 }, which can be used for electronics but mostly isn't.
(DIR) Post #Azu1oneYiqtmDUTLO4 by jmax@mastodon.social
2025-11-04T13:05:03Z
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@futurebird @Phosphenes @Zumbador Exactly. I qualify as an expert low level computer engineer, and I very distinctly remember the point in my education when the layering snapped into focus and I understood eeeeeverything.Not everything literally (I've spent much of the intervening mumble years refining and adding understanding, and there's still much undigested) but I had the conceptual framework that everything else has slotted into.