Post AzrH1JBcDyPjKPTdZ2 by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
(DIR) More posts by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
(DIR) Post #AzrCH6l1hdFxdwkqm0 by Lane@dice.camp
2025-11-03T02:25:01Z
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How do game designers know the art they commission isn't AI in origin? If I'm not willing to sell a product with AI art from my own prompts, why would I pay someone else to write my prompts for me? My impulse is to hire a local artist so that I can meet with them and see their process, but the pool of artists worldwide is so much larger and more diverse.#Art #AI #TTRPG
(DIR) Post #AzrCH7WsphXO2N94Mq by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T04:18:05Z
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@Lane They don't, and I guarantee that you have no time to sit down and shake hands with a local artist if you can even find one, because theoretically you have way better things to be doing with your time, like writing more products. At a certain point, people are going to have to learn that there is only one important measure about a product that you're commissioning. It is not whether or not it was created with AI any more than the question is whether or not it was created with Photoshop, was photobashed, or was created with purely open-source tools. The only important thing is whether or not it's good and it fulfills your purposes. Anything else is wasting your time and everyone else's. This is the secret. This is the thing nobody wants to talk about because everyone knows it's true at a certain level. If the work is good, you don't care how it got there. If it's not good, you don't care how it got there. If you can't tell the difference, then you've got a different problem. It's that simple.
(DIR) Post #AzrEon1Ln12gBXZvSy by Lane@dice.camp
2025-11-03T04:46:37Z
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@lextenebris I don't agree. The ends do not justify the means. Art is the issue now, creators not being rewarded for their work being used. Next it will be game designers who are seeing their games cannibalized for no recompense, and then poets who can no longer get paid because a computer can produce nebulously plagiarized poetry cheaper. The one area of work we should want to reserve for humanity is artistic expression. If artists are no longer being paid then art itself will begin to die.
(DIR) Post #AzrH1JBcDyPjKPTdZ2 by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T05:11:18Z
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@Lane Tell me, do you ask what YouTube videos an artist watched before they sat down to do work for you? Do you ask them what tools they use to make the thing that you ask them for? Or do you care about whether they create work which looks like what they promote themselves with and get it in before your deadline? It's never about creators not being rewarded for their work being used. You don't care about where someone went to school or if they went to school to learn how to create their art. You don't care what art they looked at for years, months, weeks, or days before they put pen to paper for you. You never asked about that. You never cared about that. And yet, they are specifically profiting from the work of others who taught them what they know. So don't lie to me. Or don't lie to yourself. You don't care about artists being rewarded for their work being used.
(DIR) Post #AzrH3YOAfm353bQ7vs by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T05:11:44Z
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@Lane If you or your work can be replaced by a machine that learned from broader examples, then your work isn't that good, or it isn't good enough for the purpose for which you are creating it. I'm a professional writer. I've been told for the last 30 years that computers are going to replace me, whether it was Markov chains, large language models, or just straight-up symbolic statistic analysis of text. At no point have they ever been able to join the last two paragraphs, nor will they. If they are, that's because my work isn't good enough, not because the machines got too good. If your work can be replaced by a machine, then the machine's just better than you. Your artistic expression sucks. Or more importantly, someone doesn't want to pay for it. Life is hard. Get in line with the buggy whip makers. The rest of us will continue making good art and selling it where and when we can, and we'll use every tool that we have in the arsenal to do so, whether we need cheap art for illustrating a magazine article or a more elaborate piece for a cover. Congratulations. Cheap artists have a competitor. Expensive artists will never have a competitor. They'll just have a market with actual competition.
(DIR) Post #AzrH5N3rl7wuVLn0TI by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T05:12:04Z
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@Lane The challenge as an artist is not whether or not you're better than a machine. The question for an artist is whether or not you make something other people want to pay for. As a publisher, as someone who pays money out of pocket to create products that have to go out the door for a reasonable amount of investment in terms of how much they make, I don't really care who uses what tool. What I care about is whether or not they can deliver me a product based on my commission, in the style that I ask for or that they have promoted. Everything else I don't care about. Nothing else do I care about. Or, to put it more succinctly, in the language that Gen Z understands: git gud or get out.
(DIR) Post #AzrHXMvjq8wsCrL1ou by Sablebadger@dice.camp
2025-11-03T05:17:04Z
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@lextenebris not gonna lie my dude, you came on pretty strong here with the multiple page essay of an opinion. The guy asked a question, and you gave him a screed with multiple accusations included. Maybe relax a bit?
(DIR) Post #AzrHdxd6J03plUlQ3M by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T05:18:18Z
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@Sablebadger I'm sorry, is it way too intense for you to go to a platform which is made entirely of words and see that someone actually had words to say? That's terrible. I'm so sorry that your reading comprehension skills are so limited. It must be a terrible way to exist.Someone asked me a question, and I answered it with my actual thoughts. I thought that was the point.Pardon me for overstepping your intellectual bounds.
(DIR) Post #AzrHy8kSfyGs2apSi0 by Sablebadger@dice.camp
2025-11-03T05:21:56Z
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@lextenebris AND you responded just about how I expected based on the previous posts.Do you always just straight up go on the attack first thing? Are you this abrasive and condescending in person, or is just special for us on Mastodon?You seem kind of tense.
(DIR) Post #AzrIXFxVrLFKXUg7nM by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T05:28:19Z
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@Sablebadger I do, yes. Suffering fools gladly is not on my character sheet. Whether it be in person or online, frankly, I've always found it far better to be the same person everywhere I go rather than to put on a mask for other people. It saves a lot of trouble over the decades.Do you have something interesting to say at any point, or do you just like to ask stupid questions? You seem kind of passive-aggressive, which I generally find from people who don't actually have a position they want to establish; they just want to bait people. Is that you?
(DIR) Post #AzrJUMEYAnxX5MpT2e by Sablebadger@dice.camp
2025-11-03T05:38:57Z
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@lextenebris Lovely chat, but I really must go. To paraphrase your own, "Suffering assholes is not in my character sheet."And you seem like the type the revels in and enjoys playing the asshole. I honestly don't have the time to try and understand people like you. I bet you're a fucking delight to be around in person too, LOL.bye.
(DIR) Post #AzrJtLLsaZD7afAh1M by Lane@dice.camp
2025-11-03T05:43:28Z
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@lextenebris Yes, we learn how to create art, and we are influenced by the art of others, but it is not automatically plagiarism. Why would I lie about caring? It's not the path of least resistance, I understand that, but it's worth it in the long run to preserve some things for humanity, as I happen to be human.I'm preparing to purge our site of AI 'art' and wanted some feedback. Thanks for your opinion, but you can't know what I care or don't care about, any more than I can read your mind.
(DIR) Post #AzrKEGVzlcxOfcsaMC by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T05:47:17Z
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@Sablebadger So you actually had nothing to say and no point to make other than tone policing. All right. Good to know. Good talk. Keep it up.I'm not sure I would revel publicly in my lack of desire to understand other people, but that's a personal choice and I'm going to leave it to you.I'm a wonderful person to spend time with, at least if you like the truth and actual thinking. Otherwise, definitely not the person for you.
(DIR) Post #AzrLUrK6mZtrPtnOs4 by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T06:01:29Z
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@Lane If learning from other people's work is not automatically plagiarism, then training a visual model to create art is not automatically plagiarism. Specifically, plagiarism only occurs when someone creates a piece and claims it is the work of someone else. That is pointedly not what large language models, visual models, or other neural network emulation models do. It may be what certain artists do, but certain artists have done that since the beginning of time. That's not specific to the tool. Why would you lie about caring? Because it's a social signifier at this point. Or because you are self-deluding about what you actually care about and want to think of yourself as a good person, so you have to make the right noises but don't actually care about those things. Your motivations are unimportant to me, but I know that you haven't actually been concerned about where artists learn their trade from and giving credit to merely the people who inspired them, much less a portion of all of their income kicked back up the chain because no one has been advocating for that.
(DIR) Post #AzrLXalwm7aKxB7WE4 by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T06:01:59Z
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@Lane It's silly, but that is the same contextual silliness that your original question implied. If we don't care about kicking that support for art back up to the people who trained and inspired you, then it's extra silly to care about a tool doing the same thing. Humans will do human things no matter what tools exist. Artists created art before there was currency, when barter was the only means of exchange in order to get value for their productivity. Artists continue to create art with absolutely no credit, sometimes not even showing other people. There is no threat to human artistic endeavor from any AI. There never has been. There never will be. it's a made up thing to be anxious about.It's worth returning to your original question: "How do game designers know he art they commission isn't AI generated?" You've sidestepped the meat of my response: "They can't. And they shouldn't."
(DIR) Post #AzrLZMPl81CH0DaLui by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T06:02:18Z
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@Lane The irony is not only is it currently largely impossible, it's going to be _less_ possible as the selection of visual art on sites like yours becomes actively selective about what they see as "AI art." You're creating a training set of images you don't *perceive* as "AI art," which ironically will be a training input for anyone interested in building models which look less identifiable. In a sense, you are deliberately improving the thing which you appear to want to hate, which is probably the most amusing possible outcome. It was inevitable, but it's still amusing.For the record, I can tell what you care and don't care about by the things that you say. If I can't, that's a problem with you not saying what you care about, but it was fairly clear from the beginning, which is why you got the response that you did. Likewise, you can read my mind simply by reading my words, which communicate to you what I think. I thought everyone knew these things, but here we are.You will only be able to purge your site of images that you perceive to be created by machines. Some of those images will just be bad art created by human beings. Some of those images will be good art created by human beings. Some of those images will be good art created by machines.
(DIR) Post #AzrLaiqbD0ZsrmmyPY by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T06:02:31Z
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@Lane Hopefully, all of the images that you get rid of will be bad art created by machines. I would respect your choice more if you just told me that you were going to purge your site of bad art, because that really should be the most meaningful and useful thing you can decide about the stuff on your site.If the mechanism by which it was created is more important to you than its quality, then you deserve what you end up with. That's pretty much how it shakes out.
(DIR) Post #AzrLl7iPbaHCtAv2hM by Lane@dice.camp
2025-11-03T06:04:24Z
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@lextenebris @Sablebadger You could have just not engaged, rather than attempting to bring TwiX vibes over from the transmogrified blue bird. Definitely not the person for me, what with all that truth and actual thinking. If art is a lie then it's one I will choose to keep telling myself.
(DIR) Post #AzrTlK0sgITqfCABbE by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2025-11-03T07:34:06Z
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@Lane @Sablebadger There was a question. I had a legitimate answer. It's clear and complete. I supported it with my reasoning.I'm sorry, I didn't realize that shutting up was the only responsible way to reply to disordered and ultimately self-defeating thinking.I don't care about vibes, and I don't really respond well to being told to shut up because I don't put things the way you want to hear. There is a classic response to that, but even I'm too polite to deliver it at this moment.Art is not a lie. Art is the way of telling lies to illuminate the truth.It's amazing how often people object to the truth but embrace the method.