Post Azgt0iRAW3hOs8Kxd2 by diegovsky@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by diegovsky@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AzY6NKd4eYuVXpE7pg by inyanblood@suya.place
2025-10-24T23:11:54.859780Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lina my sympathy is on your side, Lina, this is plain sad. At least now you know who deserves trust and who doesn’t
(DIR) Post #AzY6kVzmYlunSNu3EW by inyanblood@suya.place
2025-10-24T23:16:45.360620Z
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@lina Luna exposes herself as a severe narcissist, those are kinds of people for whom “therapy doesn’t work”. One has to be extremely naive to ignore this and fall for every dishonest manipulation after reading the docs you published
(DIR) Post #AzYhxfVCDpgt0fjR2m by alda@topspicy.social
2025-10-24T23:54:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @inyanblood It seems like every open-membership volunteering organisation is used as a hunting ground by people with this specific personality disorder.
(DIR) Post #AzYhxoLbKsMaRWJOq0 by alda@topspicy.social
2025-10-24T23:54:39Z
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@lina @inyanblood I am sorry that you have to deal with this.
(DIR) Post #AzdpZeu6f6iMl5Op4C by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2025-10-25T08:25:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @commdserv I can’t speak for fd.o, but I was in a leadership position on another project where we got a similar case disastrously wrong, so I might be able to illuminate how that happens.The first mistake we made was not to differentiate harassment from conflict resolution. Most of the issues we had between contributors were personality clashes or technical disagreements that escalated. As you say, most of these have both parties acting in good faith. The main thing that the project needs to do is deescalate and get the people involved to talk again. This is absolutely the wrong approach in cases of harassment. There were two key causes of this:First, (as you mentioned) no one involved had any formal (or, in most cases, informal) training in how to deal with harassment. Most employers offer this, but it’s rarely compulsory. After the initial incident, I signed up for this training with my employer (as did another colleague involved with the same project). This highlighted some of the things we did wrong, but it was quite illuminating who was there: we were the only men on the course who were there voluntarily. Most of the people were women who were there because they had been targets of harassment or bullying and wanted to understand the processes better. The rest were men who had been forced to take the training because they had been accused of harassment (and, from a lot of their comments, I suspect had been engaged in it long term).Most F/OSS (or other community-led) projects don’t have any formal structure for providing this kind of training. And the work-provided training wasn’t sufficient. There were a bunch of ‘and this is where you need to escalate it to HR specialists (or the police)’ moments, but volunteer projects don’t have those experts. One of the biggest things a F/OSS charity could do to improve the situation would be to hire real experts that projects can use as consultants. Companies that back projects could help out be loaning HR as well as engineers to the projects.Second, we had very poor visibility into what happened. There’s a natural tendency for humans to trust the first person who explains a situation. In our case, it was made worse because the only thing that happened on project infrastructure (and so the thing that we saw) was an IRC exchange where one project member connected and had a go at another member then left. We didn’t see the backstory, which involved a load of gamergate nonsense on Twitter and elsewhere (and those of us not in the Twitterverse had only a very vague idea of what Gamergate was. I thought it was a handful of people who were upset some game they didn’t like won an award, I had no idea that it was a coordinated harassment campaign). When a lot of the things that happened are private messages, or in non-project spaces, it’s hard to know what the real context is. We saw a load of things quoted out of context that made both people look bad. We also had friends of both people jumping in and defending them and attacking the other.It really takes weeks of investigation to properly handle this kind of thing and dig to the truth. And this compounds the problem of the people dealing with it not having the right training. And, unless they are employees of a foundation backing the project, they also lack the time to do a good job. And, again, the assumption that people are basically decent (which is normally valid) hurts when one of the people is not and is actively trying to subvert the process. The evidence from an honest person reporting what happened and a dishonest person cherry-picking out-of-context comments will look very similar. Unless you personally know the people involved (which brings its own problems of bias) then it’s very hard to work out who is telling the truth. This is even harder when one or both people involved are highly visible in the community, because they will both be publicly sharing a narrative and one is mostly accurate (but only mostly: no one is 100% objective when they’re being personally attacked) while the other is a carefully crafted fabrication, but there’s pressure to respond quickly because both are public and the community is full of people who believe either one and are complaining.In the last few years, the problem has become worse. A lot of CoC complaints now are malicious. Far-right folks absolutely love baiting people into saying things that look bad when quoted out of context, then deleting the context and reporting the remark. They make a game out of trying to get people kicked out of projects. So the workload has gone up, which compounds the other problems.I wish I had a good answer for how to improve this.
(DIR) Post #AzdpZgLRIyAlE9CAJE by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2025-10-27T17:32:25.260Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@david_chisnall@infosec.exchange @lina@vt.social @commdserv@mastodon.social Far-right folks absolutely love baiting people into saying things that look bad when quoted out of context, then deleting the context and reporting the remark. They make a game out of trying to get people kicked out of projectsAre you sure about it being specifically "far-right folks" doing this?
(DIR) Post #AzfNTGCDChuTzRws2i by CyanChanges@mastodon.social
2025-10-28T11:07:09Z
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@tyil @lina @david_chisnall @commdserv Imagine in Discord:> A: Hey, how many eggs in this box [Image: box with 12 eggs)> B: 12 ig*A: removes the image**A: edits the message, to "How old are you?"**A: Report to Discord as underage.**at Discord moderation team: Age of 12?? This is insane, banned for sure**
(DIR) Post #AzfNTHexlIVCWuPLUm by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2025-10-28T11:27:01.772Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@CyanChanges@mastodon.social @lina@vt.social @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange @commdserv@mastodon.social Nobody sane uses Discord, luckily.In most (free/open) software projects however, I see CoCs being pushed by left-wing people, who then immediately start abusing the purposely vague language to get rid of those they don't like. Even if the people in question keep their political ideology out of the projects, they will hunt people down on other places and use that as justification to get rid of them from a project.I'm not saying "far right" people don't also do this stuff nowadays, but trying to paint a picture where somehow everyone who does "the wrong thing" just so happen to also be of "the wrong political leaning" seems very disingenuous.
(DIR) Post #AzgsuQB3Ud4wVDnaMq by katzenmann@c3d2.social
2025-10-25T23:23:43Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@lina Why the fuck is there even a Freedesktop Discord? A free desktop organization depending on proprietary services. How great
(DIR) Post #Azgt0iRAW3hOs8Kxd2 by diegovsky@fosstodon.org
2025-10-25T16:47:13Z
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@lina this is rich coming from the same people vehemently denouncing framework for the fascist "don't bring unrelated harassment to the forum" policy.this is really unfortunate, as I genuinely looked up to the fdo as I thought they had a good reputation regarding CoC moderation after what happened with vaxry.I guess this shit should be left to HR people, not nerds like us
(DIR) Post #Azgt0j5a5o1ctTFEcS by shironeko@fedi.tesaguri.club
2025-10-29T04:55:10.175314Z
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@diegovsky some people cannot see themselves in a mirror
(DIR) Post #AzhDjfEJHn9P2U26dc by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2025-10-29T08:47:25.519195Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@katzenmann @lina It's the proprietary desktop organization.A service isn't free or nonfree - but proprietary software and SaaSS is indeed degenerately proprietary.
(DIR) Post #AzhL2sasWS8ZfThOQy by pernia@clubcyberia.co
2025-10-29T10:09:20.728209Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@david_chisnall @lina @commdserv hector "lina" martin jerked off to siberian mouse and daisys destruction in Jitsi meet with his transgender foxgirl vtuber girlfriend
(DIR) Post #AzhL3UncTWuM9zx6ZM by pernia@clubcyberia.co
2025-10-29T10:09:27.579772Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@david_chisnall @commdserv @lina just so you know