Post AzTRAAbFl1knvC8muG by feralthoughts@union.place
(DIR) More posts by feralthoughts@union.place
(DIR) Post #AzRb9b00jLt8jXALrs by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T18:32:33Z
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@silverpill I am curious about #Mitra, so here are a few questions; hope you don’t mind.(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRb9cMjeLeyyIo0vY by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T18:34:04Z
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@silverpill How does Mitra work in case of public conversations?Say, a Mitra user writes a new public post (OP of a thread). Do they get notified of all replies in the thread, including even those reply-to-reply posts that do not tag them? Can a respondent to the OP’s public post change the status of their reply post to followers-only or mentioned-users-only? If the OP is not a follower of that respondent, and is not tagged, will the reply be visible to the OP?(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRb9dbJ3euSnmdAHI by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-21T19:53:52.523947Z
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@feralthoughtsHow does Mitra work in case of public conversations?Similar to how Mastodon and other micro-blogging platforms work. You're notified only when you're directly addressed (this is usually done by @mention).It doesn't currently use Conversation Containers for public conversations, but I think the way notifications work will be the same when we switch to containersCan a respondent to the OP’s public post change the status of their reply post to followers-only or mentioned-users-only?They can reply with narrower visibility. I think narrowing of the scope should be allowed, but not widening. Although, as far as I know, Streams/Forte allow neither.If the OP is not a follower of that respondent, and is not tagged, will the reply be visible to the OP?Currently it is not visible.
(DIR) Post #AzRb9i4sPewKgeUpvM by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T18:34:31Z
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@silverpill Say, a Mitra user boosts (reposts) a post in some thread, or posts a reply in that thread. Does the user then get notified of all subsequent posts in that thread?Basically, is there some way for a Mitra user to “subscribe” to a public thread, or flag in some way that they would like to receive existing posts as well as get notified of all future posts in that thread/conversation?(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRb9non4NdaUV14gS by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T18:34:58Z
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@silverpill Can a Mitra user follow hashtags and groups?(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRb9tbXYYbUR8rZrc by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T18:35:26Z
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@silverpill Can Mitra instance admins subscribe to ActivityPub relays?(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRb9z8gyj5pbPPcjQ by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T18:36:02Z
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@silverpill I read that Mitra experimentally supports nomadic identity. Does this feature make it possible to simultaneously have the same account on two or more Mitra instances, with new activity in any of those getting mirrored on the clone accounts?Basically, does nomadic identity in Mitra work in a fashion similar to that in Hubzilla?
(DIR) Post #AzRbMXawhNy1wKcAme by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-21T19:54:58.739820Z
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@feralthoughts No, this is not supported.
(DIR) Post #AzRbbTz4PFTf5J1Vwm by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-21T19:58:59.787490Z
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@feralthoughtsHashtags: only if they are ActivityPub actors, e.g. https://relay.fedi.buzz/ hashtagsGroups: yesRelays: yes, and regular users can subscribe too. Actually, there is no special admin interface for subscribing to relays, we just use regular accounts.
(DIR) Post #AzRd0AoGvrZSoKJHqy by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-21T20:14:38.093854Z
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@feralthoughts Yes, mirroring partially works, but nomadic accounts require a special command-line client:https://codeberg.org/silverpill/fep-ae97-clientIt's not possible to create a nomadic account from the web site.
(DIR) Post #AzRnJiChzs33QNhBNg by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T20:34:12Z
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@silverpill Can a user without admin access do this?And once the CLI action is done, either by user or admin, can the user then use their account's web interface normally on either site, with no further command line interventions required? The cloning will just happen in the background?
(DIR) Post #AzRnJjRdNra7GxgcHg by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-21T22:10:13.542556Z
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@feralthoughts Server admin must enable the experimental API first.All operations with a nomadic account require command-line client, regular interface can't be used. Cloning happens in background.
(DIR) Post #AzRnlOm9pA1NHFTisK by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T20:20:19Z
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@silverpill Thank you for all the responses.Personally, I think the Streams/Forte behaviour, of every single reply inheriting the OP’s privacy status, is the one that matches social expectations.If the OP is starting a conversation, they should get to decide the contours for the entire thread, a respondent should not be able to change those. If some respondent wants to respond with a different privacy status, they can always start a new conversation and link to the OP.(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRnlPuLcCAOmwJmHQ by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T20:20:47Z
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@silverpill Also: allowing respondents to narrow the visibility will run into the well-known problem of each reply being visible to a different set of followers.Say user B replies followers-only to the OP. User C then replies followers-only to B’s post. In this case, B’s post will only be visible to B’s followers, while C’s post will only be visible to C’s followers, with further downstream replies inheriting the problem.(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzRnlQAedZD7bVwnhI by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T20:37:12Z
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@silverpill To address this problem, it may be worth applying conversation containers also to public conversations? And applying them so that all replies inherit the privacy status of the OP?
(DIR) Post #AzRnlQkoT88NPerg3c by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-21T22:15:12.394480Z
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@feralthoughts Yes, conversation containers can be used to enforce conversation scope.Say user B replies followers-only to the OP. User C then replies followers-only to B’s post. In this case, B’s post will only be visible to B’s followers, while C’s post will only be visible to C’s followers, with further downstream replies inheriting the problem.This is not a narrowing, it's a change of scope. Narrowing means user C can only reply to B's followers or to B directly.
(DIR) Post #AzTRA74WsEnMypo6z2 by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-21T20:26:11Z
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@silverpill Regarding notifications: I am not sure, but I think a Hubzilla OP starting a thread receives notifications of every single reply, including those that do not tag the OP. And I am far less certain here, but maybe the behaviour is similar in case of a Hubzilla user participating in a thread started by someone else?But I could be wrong. Maybe we should ask some Hubzilla veteran. @jupiter_rowland , can you please tell us how this works on Hubzilla?(continues)
(DIR) Post #AzTRA8Rxkb8NFnmL9E by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T02:13:56Z
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@silverpill One reason I have been asking about notifications without @ mentions: today, if lot of users join a conversation, then the @ mentions can take up 100-200 or more characters, and significantly reduce the characters available for the actual text (I know Mitra has ten times Mastodon’s character limit, but even then...). In addition, a poster may allot characters for hashtags and groups. That leaves even fewer characters for the actual text.@jupiter_rowland (continues)
(DIR) Post #AzTRA9dLLlpcvO6wWe by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T02:14:39Z
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@silverpill So... some posters randomly start deleting the @ mentions of one or two or three or more recipients, leading to fragmented sub-threads and sub-sub-threads with random subsets of participants.This is very counter-productive; it prevents inclusive, participatory conversations.@jupiter_rowland (continues)
(DIR) Post #AzTRAAbFl1knvC8muG by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T02:15:21Z
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@silverpill If all participants in a thread received notifications even without @ mentions, this problem would not occur. In that case, @ mentions will only be required for adding new participants. Once added, they too should automatically receive all subsequent posts in the thread, without anyone having to @ mention them.If some participant doesn’t want those notifications, they should have the option to unsubscribe from the thread.@jupiter_rowland
(DIR) Post #AzTRAB8Zl8PPaXjOqW by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-22T17:11:19.226227Z
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@feralthoughts This problem has an easy solution. Mentions don't have to be inserted into posts, they can simply be copied from the parent post.Some platforms always used implicit addressing. I plan to do this too in the future (Mitra already uses implicit addressing in some cases, e.g. in group conversations).@jupiter_rowland
(DIR) Post #AzTROGs9EWaFQglca8 by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T02:21:23Z
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@silverpill Still have few doubts, but they don't matter.For the average fedizen, the present design of Mitra's nomadic identity seems very difficult to use.Are there future plans to make Mitra's nomadic identity design similar to Forte's? Or maybe simpler than that?(I have never used Forte, but I am assuming that its nomadic identity design is similar to Hubzilla's, which I know can be activated from the regular web interface.)
(DIR) Post #AzTROI4En3qf8TQn44 by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-22T17:13:08.163453Z
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@feralthoughts Yes, it will be made simpler but maybe it will not look like Hubzilla.
(DIR) Post #AzTVKY7jYCwdalXQ1o by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T02:04:46Z
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@silverpill Hmm - ok.So... if OP is not a follower of B, and B's follower-only reply to OP's public post does not tag OP, then OP won't receive B's reply? Or if B does tag OP, but C's reply to B's post doesn't tag OP, then OP won't receive C's reply? Seems undesirable, if that would be the case.I feel restricting all replies to OP's privacy level will prevent many possible pathologies.Either way, in future, do you plan to apply conversation containers to public conversations?
(DIR) Post #AzTVKZOmoIBBXwWYFM by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-10-22T16:58:04.871552Z
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@feralthoughtsI feel restricting all replies to OP's privacy level will prevent many possible pathologies.But it introduces a new pathology: people who use platforms not supporting conversation containers may be not aware of the fact that their comment visibility setting will be ignored. They reply with a DM, but conversation owner forces it to be public.So I think narrowing should be allowed.I am not sure about the OP. Maybe OP should never be excluded.Either way, in future, do you plan to apply conversation containers to public conversations?Yes.
(DIR) Post #AzVUYKOxeem1RwWRCi by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T20:37:19Z
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@silverpill Even mentions copied from the parent will count as characters, and eat up the limited character quota, no?@jupiter_rowland (continues)
(DIR) Post #AzVUYLZdISu75KWTTc by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T20:37:50Z
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@silverpill By the way, I didn’t get the point you had made earlier:> You're notified only when you're directly addressed ... I think the way notifications work will be the same when we switch to containers@jupiter_rowland (continues)
(DIR) Post #AzVUYMVloJPNzdiu5w by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-22T20:38:22Z
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@silverpill If I understood correctly, conversation containers ensure that all replies in a thread are routed through the OP’s server on their way to other participants in a conversation. So once conversation containers for public conversations are implemented, it should be possible for at least a Mitra OP to get notified of every single reply in a thread, even if they are not tagged. Isn’t that correct?@jupiter_rowland
(DIR) Post #AziPRLFUEHsUSrZa9A by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-29T02:24:56Z
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@silverpill I had completely forgotten to mention that allowing a user to narrow the scope of replies seems to enable a particular form of harassment, predominantly employed for racist abuse of black users.Described here:https://gts.sadauskas.id.au/@aj/statuses/01K6Z6ZAXY1SB46X6PAFDKM9S9And in a thread I wrote earlier:https://union.place/@feralthoughts/115345717793512758(continues)
(DIR) Post #AziPRM6J3u836gHlTc by feralthoughts@union.place
2025-10-29T02:25:14Z
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@silverpill Have you thought of some (technical) solution to prevent this?Or is it a matter of choosing between the pathology you described (possible because Mastodon and others lack conversation containers) and this harassment vector enabled by scope narrowing?