Post AzCSAXP7lhCCumt7dg by LightFIAR@med-mastodon.com
(DIR) More posts by LightFIAR@med-mastodon.com
(DIR) Post #AzCC8mQXLPxXf4glJQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:33:26Z
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One of the problems with having very wealthy people is that often they have no idea what they should do with their money. This can be hard to understand for the work a day stiff such as you and I: If I had more money there are repairs and upgrades to make, little fun things to buy, family members to help, trips to take and so on. But if you have 50 million dollars? You can run out of ideas of things to spend money on. Hedonism has limits and each person can only think of so many projects.
(DIR) Post #AzCCP0QJ4fWThgJmca by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:36:23Z
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But it's obvious that just letting the money sit in a low yield fund isn't very smart. You need to put that money to work! Invest! Start a company! Do some philanthropy!But you are just one person so the time you can spend deciding how each dollar is spent is falling. You are becoming "dumb money"Dumb money makes stock market bubbles.Dumb money can distort politics. But the sad part is dumb money mostly gets taken by people paying more attention. Scammed away by bad investments.
(DIR) Post #AzCCZ46iEScS1bwwiG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:38:12Z
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And we don't really talk about it much, because it's not sad that someone had 50 million and wasted 20 million on a bad investment idea. But think about all of the good things that could have happened if that money was invested more wisely.It's just not a great feature of how this whole things works IMO.
(DIR) Post #AzCCnTwgxjnqDQ8ZDE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:40:47Z
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@crmsnbleyd This is kind of the point. It's too much money to invest wisely. Too much to spend on things. Too much political influence for one person no matter how smart or charming they might be.
(DIR) Post #AzCCyCzAMNugnfPQtU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:42:44Z
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@crmsnbleyd There is a lot of attention paid to how poor people spend their money. How dare you buy a fancy purse and sixteen bags of potatoes!But in terms of volume the bad choices made with money aren't mostly the fault of the poor. Poor people make their money do more ... the more money you have the less attention you can pay to what it's doing.
(DIR) Post #AzCD2dDqkoStKYO1p2 by thierna@mastodon.green
2025-10-14T09:43:31Z
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@futurebird yes. Yes. Yes.I once managed the finances for a kindergarten support club where the parents would donate money for extras. It takes work to organise which things to buy that help the team and the kids.Spending wisely takes time and knowledge. Many people want to make good with their money but all they get is those bank types advising for gold or funds.
(DIR) Post #AzCDQ5gV6BKAGSyRLU by thierna@mastodon.green
2025-10-14T09:47:45Z
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@futurebird also for people who have any amount of spare money. Like when your salary is 100.000€ per year in the EU. You are fine buying your house, travel, shopping. You have money to give for donations. But also you can invest into sea rescue or weapons industry. Into solar or into oil. Into the housing market or in education. You probably don't want to give it all away. You could also get financial returns on community friendly projects.
(DIR) Post #AzCECufmpOLMIov6zA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:56:34Z
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@crmsnbleyd All of those razor edge decisions made by poor and working class people about how to spend their money are in fact a form of labor. It's work. The decision making keeps the market pointed in the direction of providing services and products that people might actually want. Money spent indiscriminately, by contrast can nurture bad business ventures and harm industrious creators of real value.
(DIR) Post #AzCEKhUTivHvjcLOuu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T09:58:01Z
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@crmsnbleyd Shopping has always been hard work. Companies often have a person whose whole job is shopping (deciding how to buy all of the supplies for the company and getting the best prices)It's work.
(DIR) Post #AzCEZLbdN8WuCkfw8G by jadp@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T10:00:36Z
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@futurebird @crmsnbleyd all of these reasons was why the top tax brackets were/are at 90%. To keep the bewildered and overwrought multi-millionaires and billionaires from making poor decisions
(DIR) Post #AzCEnQq0iVkcU97FFA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:03:12Z
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@jadp @crmsnbleyd Some libertarians have objected to this on the grounds that it's saying that no one is special enough or smart enough to undertake "big projects" -- they claim that this kind of thinking will stifle human creativity and innovation. They used to say "how would you have someone like Elon Musk or Sam Friedman?" (they don't say this anymore for some reason)But to that I say? If you have a good idea get some people together and make it happen together!
(DIR) Post #AzCFHPdtj3eBSukJxQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:08:34Z
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@diffractie I am torn what is better? Low yield investments... or giving it to WeWork or NFTs or god knows what nonsense that might either quintuple the money or make it vanish. There is an entire sector of the investment "economy" that is deeply deeply broken and maybe just burn the cash. Maybe that would be best for everyone.
(DIR) Post #AzCFLhheWEhedaY4jw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:09:23Z
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@diffractie Dumb Money is moving fast and breaking everything.
(DIR) Post #AzCFmtndeVHbyOJf96 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:14:18Z
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@tgent_fens ?The entire concept of markets being good things is dependent on every dollar being spent in some way representing the intentions, desires and values of real human beings and the things that they want. So what happens when a large portion of the money isn't being spent on things that make sense? What happens if the best way to increase your wealth is to exploit loopholes and insider information?The whole system starts to fall apart.
(DIR) Post #AzCGlFfXTIEdAtJ22a by cstross@wandering.shop
2025-10-14T10:25:05Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens @petealexharris I've always thought that the idea of the "free" market being a perfect demand-signalling mechanism was obvious bullshit: in reality, money can only signal demand for products and services *that exist*, and prices are subject to manipulation via artificial scarcity, and then there's irrational signaling (eg. Veblen goods).
(DIR) Post #AzCGrufTx0aS4JSJn6 by N0tSure@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T10:26:23Z
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@futurebird They all do the same thing: buy land.
(DIR) Post #AzCGsZFL572Jv6XWEa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:26:31Z
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@tgent_fens This whole rant was prompted by reading about several overvalued companies, bitcoin, and other market perversions. And there is a point in all of these stories where the charismatic con man finds some rich guy, or several rich guys who simply give this person and obscene amount of money for their venture. The venture becomes important and pulls others in due to the seed cash. It makes me think: why are there so many people with 50 million dollars to just toss at these things?
(DIR) Post #AzCH8IOFWKUYH5CtzE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:29:23Z
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@tgent_fens I can answer my own question: sometimes the returns for those who get in first are massive. 50 million becomes 300 and that must feel good. Just as often it all vanishes. But I'm not really interested in that angle. I'm interested in what this kind of investment does to the whole economy?And how would it compare to if the 50,000 *least* responsible people with average incomes were given that same money to spend?
(DIR) Post #AzCHJUHVeJSmL9OJpg by simon_brooke@mastodon.scot
2025-10-14T10:31:22Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens markets are always, inevitably, bad things. Markets move wealth from those in need to those with surplus. Always. Inevitably. That is literally the only thing they do. They increase wealth inequity, and thus social inequity; they enforce the maldistribution of goods. They have no redeeming features.
(DIR) Post #AzCHVNAZuspbl4ogqm by Flisty@mstdn.social
2025-10-14T10:33:31Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens or if 50 million people were each given a dollar to spend
(DIR) Post #AzCHbQwOo8tzBz4fx2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T10:34:39Z
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@simon_brooke @tgent_fens "markets are always, inevitably, bad things."I don't really buy that. Markets can be a great way to solve resource distribution problems and many of the alternatives are much more annoying and restrictive. They just aren't magical.
(DIR) Post #AzCHj3bVSSEp89wAYS by ale_antpower@muenchen.social
2025-10-14T10:35:57Z
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@futurebird I remember this principle from high school: average people use the money they have for their necessities and if they have a bit more, they spend a bit more. This makes the money circle and improves the situation for everybody. Very wealthy individuals end up accumulating money instead of spending and this only benefits themselves and their immediate circle (conmen included).
(DIR) Post #AzCHp66d4JMEczNIzQ by simon_brooke@mastodon.scot
2025-10-14T10:37:06Z
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@futurebird @jadp @crmsnbleyd any one who claims to be a #libertarian but believes in property is not a libertarian at all, but a hypocrit or a liar.
(DIR) Post #AzCI3c4yzMnxqVWhNI by simon_brooke@mastodon.scot
2025-10-14T10:39:43Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens I don't ask you to buy it. I offer it to you as a gift. That is precisely the point: a gift economy distributes resources far better, far more simply, and far more equitably than a market economy.
(DIR) Post #AzCIYp9qPhR9NvgP68 by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2025-10-14T10:45:20Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens I recall once reading a pretty smart conservative's paean to market capitalism that described it as a system that runs on empathy. To be rewarded, you have to figure out what other people want. And he argued that this is a socially constructive incentive in itself. It's good, to some extent, to satisfy other people's wants.So it got me thinking: what's wrong about this argument, and what's right about it?I honestly think he was right about markets running on empathy. It IS good to have to answer to what other people want. That's the good thing about democracy as well.One problem, of course, is that people have irrational or shortsighted wants that don't correspond to their needs, and there are systems like advertising that game this gap. This is a problem with democracy too.But the bigger problem is that unchecked market capitalism drives increasing inequality, and the amount of influence your wants and feelings have depends on how rich you are. When inequality is too extreme, the whole incentive system can be distorted by the personal quirks of a few ultra-rich people. So it only works if there is some outside check on that.
(DIR) Post #AzCJUv08qTvAIuqW3c by jadp@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T10:55:51Z
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@futurebird which is where government grants come into play—philanthropy balancing the high tax rate might also be part of this. Starting new companies or new business units weren’t precluded by high tax rates. I’ve related this story before, but my earliest memory is of my maternal grandmother (a Democrat) and her elder sister (a Republican) adding, over glasses of Strega, which firm of communism would best serve the USA as capitalism had failed @crmsnbleyd
(DIR) Post #AzCLjA4lnLMT1Hvjiy by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T11:20:52Z
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We focus a lot on the conman who runs the terrible investment bubble, scheme, rug pull, paying dividends with capital or whatever venture. But not as much on the rich guy who quietly shows up and puts in the first big pile of cash. But that choice to invest big in a bad idea has consequences for everyone!
(DIR) Post #AzCM5VSOysCvhedfLU by gleick@mas.to
2025-10-14T11:24:51Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens Because we've forgotten about progressive taxation and estate taxation.
(DIR) Post #AzCMSMB1ePGTa6PIUS by johnzajac@dice.camp
2025-10-14T11:28:56Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens POSIWID.They aren't market perversions. They're the market. They always have been.
(DIR) Post #AzCRtQpKy8jhapzZh2 by ersatzmaus@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T12:29:54Z
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@futurebird Are they not part of the scam? They know they're not likely to be left without a chair when the music stops.
(DIR) Post #AzCRxxVtNr9C7u3Vtg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T12:30:47Z
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@ersatzmaus Sometimes they make out with a lot of money, other times they seem to lose out with everyone else. No honor among thieves I suppose.
(DIR) Post #AzCSAXP7lhCCumt7dg by LightFIAR@med-mastodon.com
2025-10-14T12:32:55Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens The rentier parasites are engorged but need more! Owner-donors of political puppets to play with....
(DIR) Post #AzCUGB4TukirIR38Pw by jarkman@chaos.social
2025-10-14T12:56:27Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens Yes, and arguably this happened 700 years ago with the invention of the stock market.
(DIR) Post #AzCVWxXlYy8QDaJU8G by GreenSkyOverMe@ohai.social
2025-10-14T13:10:40Z
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@futurebird They can give it to me I have ideas
(DIR) Post #AzCVnvOwmUA0UsHIRM by SordidAmok@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T13:13:45Z
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@futurebird Wealth is the One Ring. It corrupts anyone who has it.
(DIR) Post #AzCX8eDbxfefEzQAM4 by Flisty@mstdn.social
2025-10-14T13:28:43Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens also: how do we know they're not already the least responsible? In my mind, in order to amass that kind of casually-thrown-away wealth you have to have either invested in or participated in some pretty "low-responsibility" practices, all the way from employee rights abuses or competition violations through to market manipulation, insider trading or merely tax avoidance. What is our definition of responsibility here? Does it involve any public conscience?
(DIR) Post #AzCXCbyYF5mFRWGc2C by pa27@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T13:29:24Z
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@futurebird Hey, you can't have too many yachts, or rockets, or islands full of underage girls, you know.
(DIR) Post #AzCYYoopGxDzbGs4ES by adamrice@c.im
2025-10-14T13:42:27Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens Something like this happened in the whole subprime mortgage meltdown, except it wasn’t a few rich guys, it was a huge number of investors seeking better returns than they could get through safe investments, being funneled through opportunistic and imaginative brokers.
(DIR) Post #AzCZlbpWyW0r2Frbbk by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T13:58:07Z
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@futurebird they know what to spend their money on. nothing they do is by mistake. once you're in the club of wealth extractors, you play "keeping up with the Joneses". they always must have the most revent status items, and be seen owning them. they need bullshit to sink their money into so they can say "i have no money". it's also a power move to say "look what i bought with my stolen wealth, which you can never have because i stole your wealth". that's why they drive outrageously expensive cars, wear diamond-encrusted watches, own private islands, acquire seven yachts, eat hot chip, and lie. the owning class and the working class have nothing in common.
(DIR) Post #AzCZy95L9xL3eIEhcm by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:00:25Z
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@futurebird the problem is not "wise investment" but "theft from the working class". whenever someone says they got rich through hard work, ask them "whose?"
(DIR) Post #AzCarF42dC1k7TttrM by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:10:22Z
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@futurebird @crmsnbleyd it's also very expensive to be poor. you have no choice but to buy the lower quality items, to get less food because it costs less, requiring repurchasing items more often. in company towns, workers were often accused by their bosses of not spending their scrip correctly, as if that were in any way possible without starving to death. being rich is not an amount of money, though. it's how the money is acquired and what is done with it. if you don't exploit workers by paying wages and taking "surplus value" as profit, you aren't rich. if you are doing that, then you continue doing that. you make the world revolve around you, by paying for it.
(DIR) Post #AzCbIFAeLJyUGjroZM by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:15:15Z
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@futurebird @jadp @crmsnbleyd that comes from the Tragedy Of The Commons, which is white supremacist trash that says without capitalism we'd all just wander around aimlessly, babbling in nonsense.
(DIR) Post #AzCbTOmSxBnvG7sGwq by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:17:16Z
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@futurebird @diffractie it would be best if we stopped them from stealing our wealth. there is no kinder, gentler capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AzCbgyu1xq9n3PtCdc by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:19:42Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens there isn't even any need for loopholes. the wage system is already legal. all they need to do is make the laws which say their stolen wealth is legitimate.
(DIR) Post #AzCc02tBMpnmv4aDQ0 by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:23:09Z
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@futurebird @tgent_fens that's still a power move. Elon Musk demonstrates this regularly. he buys expensive shit and wrecks it, because he can. he has a piece of the stolen wealth of South Africa in his pocket, and no one stops him.
(DIR) Post #AzCcQqgYqdEmtDSbUO by JoBlakely@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T14:28:00Z
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@futurebird I find it exhausting l especially these days with zero product knowledge available from manufacturers or stores or sellers. So much research is involved. So much work. I also find as things enshittify, it’s harder for me to make the purchase at all, having less and less confidence in brand quality or service.
(DIR) Post #AzCcWhnWnxUz3wVnFI by ozzelot@mstdn.social
2025-10-14T14:29:09Z
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@futurebirdI'd let it rot, for if I don't, some fool would perpetuate it.
(DIR) Post #AzCcbYofcqGGeeMSJc by MaryAustinBooks@mstdn.social
2025-10-14T14:29:56Z
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@futurebird My father is a large portfolio wealth manager who, rather than churn assets (enriching himself) encourages his clients to diversify assets thoughtfully and buy and hold blue chip, etc., a conservative approach that has seen his clients keep their money through meltdown after meltdown.I remember asking him as a kid, "What would happen if everyone did this?"He actually blinked in surprise, paused, and said, "That's a great question. I never thought of that." Which is hilarious...
(DIR) Post #AzCcmacFH6k9QBoBua by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-10-14T14:31:57Z
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@futurebird they're the same picture.
(DIR) Post #AzCcng9u9UTgtz4WB6 by LinuxAndYarn@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T14:32:10Z
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@futurebird @jadp @crmsnbleyd Every libertarian thinks they're Harrison Bergeron, and [mb]illionaires are the heroes Lazarus Long was meant to be.
(DIR) Post #AzCdPlk1qPErDj8Cm0 by LinuxAndYarn@mastodon.social
2025-10-14T14:39:01Z
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@futurebird @jadp @crmsnbleyd Every libertarian think-tanker believes they're Harrison Bergeron, and [mb]illionaires are the heroes Lazarus Long was meant to be.As for myself I think competitive markets are ok above a baseline level of dignified survival, but it should be among collectives, not hierarchies. Have food and shelter and health care for all, then see who can make the best robots, banh mi, films, etc.
(DIR) Post #AzCdk37Yw9x0uioFTE by Amoshias@esq.social
2025-10-14T14:41:26Z
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@futurebird @jadp @crmsnbleyd (I think you combined Sam Altman and Sam bankman-Fried)
(DIR) Post #AzCdk4NuEscOphSoaG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-10-14T14:42:38Z
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@Amoshias @jadp @crmsnbleyd Oooh oh how could I make such an error. They are totally different guys.
(DIR) Post #AzCdnlkrRi32DCxsem by Amoshias@esq.social
2025-10-14T14:43:22Z
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@futurebird @jadp @crmsnbleyd I mean, they're basically two different instances of the same guy
(DIR) Post #AzCe8wTCnn5RWfnovY by PizzaDemon@mastodon.online
2025-10-14T14:47:11Z
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@futurebird ^this^ ever since Reagan drastically lowered the upper rates. Old sitcoms were peppered with jokes about tax shelters but all of those were better than the rocket, yacht, and metaverse economy
(DIR) Post #AzE2q8mbUV3IDvy2We by RejoinEU@mastodon.online
2025-10-15T06:58:36Z
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@futurebird My father used to say this too & his words stay with me.
(DIR) Post #AzEXFyXPCZtwbS5rg8 by H4Heights@mstdn.social
2025-10-15T12:39:26Z
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@futurebird So... #TaxTheRich I guess. That way at least some of the “dumb money” gets put to good use.