Post Az37wBPiz59x9YPJPk by WandererUber@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by WandererUber@poa.st
(DIR) Post #Az32jhpGfNVU8qaOMi by merchantHelios@poa.st
2025-10-09T23:35:44.163781Z
11 likes, 10 repeats
i dont have anything against waifupoaster, i DO have something against ai "art". multiple things actually:AI art (i leave out the "art" now for expediency), by its mere presence, trivializes the genuine efforts of real artists, the 'all the lights in the sky are stars', the human spirit, and our struggles against the challenges of life. Traditional art, regardless of medium, involves years of practice, trial and error, and personal growth. Artists pour their time into mastering techniques required to make something which evokes an emotion or feeling, and it's a reflection of their soul as a result. AI on the other hand just grind up tens of millions of photos and spit out amalgams like the faux-cutesy sausage it produces is ever going to be anything but an offense against human will, a mockery of our attempts at grasping, recreating, and sharing the innate beauty found in the world. It's a troonification of real art which i find vile and reprehensible. Look at picrel, its the rightmost panel of Hieronymus Bosch's (in)famous Triptych 'The Garden of Earthly Delights' - depicting Hell.What's the value in it? Genuinely, ask yourself! It's not just that it's pretty old, there's plenty of art still around from the early 1500s. This is a deep reflection on a theological subject which has been one of the central focii of Christianity (and, by extension, the Western Mind generally) for 2,000 years. It's strange, it's disturbing, and even a little bit silly if you view some of the areas of the painting in isolation. But importantly: if invokes deep thoughts in the viewer, sobering thoughts hopefully. Contrast this then with a piece of AI art, pictured also below, depicting "hell". The ONLY reason that the model was able to produce anything resembling this, and it's still a faint and blasé result, was from the mulching of the bared souls of what - a thousand generations of artists, from the cave paintings of prehistory all the way until today? Look at the great cost this sort of mediocre slop has come at! I staunchly refuse to look at AI art, even the instances where it is genuinely appealing to the eye, and call it ANYTHING but soulless and offensive by it's very nature. I'm even willing to give AI as a technology far more of a benefit of the doubt in terms of its usefulness than most, and FAR more than the average RWer, but to entertain AI art and purport to care about actual art is fundamentally at odds. As if that weren't enough, I *also* have yet to see a single well-researched and logically sound argument in favor of AI art beyond "well, it looks pretty sometimes i guess". Ultimately, support of AI slop reeks of low effort - it evokes in me the same disgust a bodybuilder might have of one of those idiots who gives themselves abs via plastic surgery. As you might have gathered from the amount of words i'm putting into this poast compared with my average one, this is a topic i have thought deeply about and i care about, not only as someone who very much enjoys looking at art, but as someone who loves the process of its making and the artists who wrestle with the blank canvases before them. Even though I myself do not claim to be an artist, I find in them a kindred soul inasmuch as I find great pride in struggling with my work and producing something of value to the world as a result - work which bears a small portion of my soul with it, and which will continue after I am gone.RT: https://tsundere.love/objects/e6a4524b-be37-4902-afd2-ea02db5be7e8
(DIR) Post #Az32sX4Q1bdzOEsiQK by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-09T23:37:18.334277Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios both look like shit that I wouldn't look at again to me tbqh. I could never really get the "human sentiment" aspect of art, but primarily I just consume anime art so, maybe its that? idk
(DIR) Post #Az33NQB1hjmyzHhX5k by stoner713@poa.st
2025-10-09T23:42:32.353951Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato well said, Heloise
(DIR) Post #Az33WXlOrnb77i43jE by King_Noticer@poa.st
2025-10-09T23:44:33.724489Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato I agreeI don’t like to be confrontational, I’m just not really that kind of person, but there have been occasions in which people have shown me generated images of my OCs, and it feels like I just watched someone mutilate my baby, if that makes any senseI’m a shitter though and my art sucks, so it doesn’t matter :akkoSad:
(DIR) Post #Az33o1nKStEbBbIuES by All_bonesJones@shitposter.world
2025-10-09T23:47:43.889153Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato >it evokes in me the same disgust a bodybuilder might have of one of those idiots who gives themselves abs via plastic surgery.oh i'm (used to be) one of those kinda (power lifting not bodybuilding but still)it wasn't really disgust, it more amused contempt. "this loser can't even put in effort, he's trying to reap the social rewards of effort without actually getting the personal benefits. lmao"maybe it's because i apply that attitude to everything but i don't feel disgust at ai art, i only feel negatively when they try to pass it off as praiseworthy. i don't think taking the lowest-effort route to a mediocre product is inherently bad. pretending it's something it's not IS badthen again i'm also a huge fan of using AI to gaslight people via authentic-seeming fakes, like what do you mean you don't remember the destrier ring from dark souls, it's right here
(DIR) Post #Az346hWM4BihoIGhXs by merchantHelios@poa.st
2025-10-09T23:51:05.922990Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@mischievoustomato i mean that's fine - neither of them are supposed to arouse you, which (no offense) seems to be your main motivation with art. Not knocking that goal, but it certainly doesn't prime you well to look at and critique more traditional art, much less contrast it with ai output
(DIR) Post #Az34VXUqTRYNxZPEzw by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-09T23:55:33.702157Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios no offense taken and couldn't even be taken since that's more or less what I do consume for the most part.Now, I did lie, I do consume other kinds of art, for my laptop wallpapers. Now, I don't use any generated ones I think, but most are photography or some 2k era art. That daid, imo, if stuff looks good enough for me beyond, just anime porn, I'm not gonna be able to dislike it. For me the merit is on the final piece, what I feel from it, artist author notwithstanding
(DIR) Post #Az34aQskUfiAtRv6p6 by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-09T23:56:26.892690Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@All_bonesJones @merchantHelios yeah i would only make ai art for my own pleasure. I have indeed seen people making money by making ai art on patreon though
(DIR) Post #Az34jlpZyYCwTHtFlg by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-09T23:58:08.106405Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios now, with this image in particular, I can admit that it looks very complex and well made, but my idea is, if/when ai art generators become this good, what will the argument then be?
(DIR) Post #Az34lGEwOv9x4aSo4W by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-09T23:58:24.225727Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios artist intent*
(DIR) Post #Az36oWEja95tSl339k by WandererUber@poa.st
2025-10-10T00:21:26.042354Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato Good post. A Devil's advocate argument that you don't hear often because it is not obvious: AI will speed up an actual artist a hundred times more than a prooompter. Because the things that AI can't do, he can. Composition, consistency, vision, all the stuff you talked about. What it can do is basically a trillion times more complex paintbucket tool from mspaint. Which is nice to have when you know what you're doing.
(DIR) Post #Az372HrtneGAxEvs80 by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-10T00:23:53.453240Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WandererUber @merchantHelios yeah iirc there's some artists using ai to speed up their work. Same with tech employees.
(DIR) Post #Az379bC6LSaIv4ru0e by merchantHelios@poa.st
2025-10-10T00:25:14.417721Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@WandererUber @mischievoustomato ofc, and there's good reason that i don't critique that use-case. i think good artists will benefit greatly from ai expediating their workflows
(DIR) Post #Az37BsZ0jjgpMxfgnI by WandererUber@poa.st
2025-10-10T00:25:39.259308Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mischievoustomato @merchantHelios It makes idiots able to produce something passable, but a real artist can do 100x more with the right tooling for it. Which unfortunately doesn't exist because most people working on it are software engineers and not artists.The first guy to make photoshop for generative AI is going to be a very rich man and for some reason I doubt he will be working for adobe. No I don't mean the context-aware fill and somesuch.
(DIR) Post #Az37JyYKLzQGGDDEQK by WandererUber@poa.st
2025-10-10T00:27:07.145366Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato Imagine if an artist only drew the shaded sphere for each material, like 3D artists have it. And the AI shaded the rest in that style. Or something. Idk what would be actually useful because I am not an artist
(DIR) Post #Az37PoYsPgxL0kFmXQ by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-10-10T00:28:03.734608Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WandererUber @merchantHelios indeed.funnily enough, i do wanna learn to draw since i wanna do it. But i will also do ai image gen.
(DIR) Post #Az37wBPiz59x9YPJPk by WandererUber@poa.st
2025-10-10T00:34:01.464097Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mischievoustomato @merchantHelios There is an argument to be made that AI for artists will end up being like digital art, Photoshop, 3dcg etc. - that is, not more than a very useful tool. People said those were going to ruin art too.Although it may end up being so fast and so useful that the human skillset shrinks so fast that it won't be worth it to learn any of it.in any case, that's probably quite a ways off. They're going to run into limits soon. Duration, data labelling etc. probably more than exponentially more expensive to squeeze improvements out of the models. At some point it's not worth it to train newer ones.
(DIR) Post #Az3BLTqbswSLQTjl3Y by Some_German_Guy@poa.st
2025-10-10T01:12:12.655655Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WandererUber @mischievoustomato @merchantHelios the problem with ai is that all the finance niggers that passed by the internet in the 90's and bitcoin in 2010 now want to make up for having missed those opportunities by going all in on something they dont understand.i agree that in terms of art, it is very likely ai will become the new photoshop where it replaces most tools and practices within the professional settings.thats why there has been so much kvetching.there are thousands of artists that make a ok living by cranking out every piece of "art" a corporation wants.though the use of ai, that industry will shrink 10 fold.while professional art departments will do the exact opposite.art assets have always been the biggest bottleneck within the entertainment industry, and ai will make it possible to sprint from first draft to finished asset in record time.that will genuinely change things, as all the "creatives" will start to make changes to there projects on the fly and demand more assets to accommodate said changes.the concept of "scrapbooking" where a movie shoots the same scene in 10 different variants so the editors have more to fuck around with was one of the major reasons why hollywood productions exploded in cost over the last 15 years.giving those people the ability to change anything at any point will make even the simples production explode in complexity as all those self important faggots start pulling the most retarded shit out of there asses to one up each other.videogames will be even worse, niggers like todd howard have seen cheap asset creation from india and asia as the silver bullet to make guaranteed sales hits.starfield already proved that mentality as dead wrong, but its unlikely that both him and the faggots under him are willing to change.now give those people a art department that does by itself what 10.000 indians did.they are going to go genuinely crazy.my point being, fear of ai is overblown but also very warranted."artists" whos entire career was little more then drawing in calarts have no future and might as well start looking for a job in construction.profesional artists on the other hand will be so overworked that burnout from the old crunch culture will seem like a breeze.all that, is just art.fuck knows what will happen in other fields.with every faggot billionaire believing ai to be the next big thing, this bubble wont burst for a very long time, and this artificial extension of its importants, ai will go in some very weird directions as they pump more and more money into it to keep the train going.im guessing the best idea we will get on just how bad this will become is if microsoft really gets permission to buy and reopen the 3 mile island reactor for its proposed super training center.https://libertyproject.com/microsoft-acquires-three-mi...
(DIR) Post #Az3C9HFV05bepc7ivw by wgiwf@poa.st
2025-10-10T01:21:11.626348Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@WandererUber @merchantHelios @mischievoustomato As someone who draws from time to time AI generated images don't actually offer some sort of mythical +100 speed to drawing that people think it does. AI images don't do anything a good reference image can't do and really the only true benefit I can see is being able to quickly tune an ideal reference image out with it instead of trying to find it—but even then once you've mastered the craft references are of increasingly less importance.
(DIR) Post #Az3CGu4t2BALHfnQYq by veff@poa.st
2025-10-10T01:02:11.503504Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato I agree to a certain extent, but I genuinely think "painting vs photograph" is a good analogy that gets more relevant the more I think about it. Yeah, AI has a bunch of different LoRas and filters and stuff to get different results, but even with all that it still turns out super same-y. Very few times have I looked at art and been confused if it was made by a human or by a prompt. I've seen bad output, I've seen good output, but it's all in a whole different league from art made by artists. The best-quality-4k-studio-ghibli-masterpiece doesn't even hold water to some guy with a sketchpad. Quality =/= Art, if that makes sense. There was a time when I messed with AI art for personal use, and I kept whittling down the quality to make it more "human" and less "slop," and eventually, after rerolling for the 200th time, I had an epiphany that it would be easier to just draw what was in my head, so I did. It was kinda shit at first, but I was trying for shit. I didn't want ultra-glossy-big-booba. Ironically, as my own skills improve, the bar between "draw it" and "prompt it" raises higher and higher to the point I rarely bother with AI because the output will take longer to perfect than just drawing it. Try as I did with myself, and try as the silicon valley cultists may, machines can't replace human. The closest they will ever come is "impressionist photography" for mass consumption, and art was never meant to be consumed en mass to begin with, so it can't be automated. If it is, it ceases to be art. That's what I think, anyway.
(DIR) Post #Az3DEy63Dmph7gywOe by DrRyanSkelton@poa.st
2025-10-10T01:33:24.742220Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@veff @merchantHelios @mischievoustomato You have AI writing that is beating humans in double blind experiments. There's a lot of dimensions to this; saying "generate a picture of hell" is going to get you what Helios posted because it's still your job to do the imagination and culture work that went into the first picture.Getting all "this isn't real art but okay I guess if artists use it as a tool is fine" is I think skipping a lot of steps of the argument. Pitting the guy who hits "masterpiece, big boobs, cleavage, garter straps, fishnets, goth, feet focus" against classic art is just as masturbatory as... well, the latter guy's prompt.
(DIR) Post #Az3KkapDyjpNtU8dgu by somethinggeneric@detroitriotcity.com
2025-10-10T02:57:32.317156Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato this image but replace twitter with fedi
(DIR) Post #Az3Lc4jBX3J1z0odea by branman65@poa.st
2025-10-10T03:07:15.277088Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato I read a thing that gave tips on how to draw better and it made me appreciate real art so much more.
(DIR) Post #Az3Tf0bI8JQvgV2848 by wan@wolfgirl.bar
2025-10-10T04:37:25.362603Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@veff @merchantHelios @mischievoustomato There was, very briefly, a moment when neural networks could spit out interesting stuff by accident. I played around with one of the first Stable Diffusion models and was struck by how "leaky" it could be if you let it – concepts would cross-contaminate such that you'd very occasionally get something interesting, albeit interesting only inasmuch as it came out of a neural net.Then all that got strained out because when you watch what its users do instead of listening to what they say, it turns out being interesting or new was never the point of the technology; the rest follows.
(DIR) Post #Az3csJJclGq752BfhA by FruitpilledPeachcel@cawfee.club
2025-10-10T06:20:38.667734Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios @mischievoustomato Another negative consequence of AI images is that when you search for certain images on a browser (let's say a castle painting akin to what Hitler painted) you will get a ton of AIslop castles instead of castles that people painted
(DIR) Post #AzEUYtP4DT5wJnWQzY by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2025-10-15T12:09:20.219984Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
Great artist will still exist, so your point is moot. The typical "artist" who complains is mediocre at best and will never be great. I've seen the shit the post as that whine. It's laughable.And honestly, you're argument is fucking retarded. It's like saying that we won't have great musicians because recording software is so advanced. The opposite actually happend. As technology advanced, players were able to do things that piano and orchastral fags couldn't even imagine. Go back to reddit, queer.
(DIR) Post #AzEae17pX6TxRNHpMO by merchantHelios@poa.st
2025-10-15T13:17:28.814777Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @mischievoustomato you shouldn't follow me if you're going to be only moderately literate AND butthurt
(DIR) Post #AzEaqtphxNjoaXx8Xg by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2025-10-15T13:19:49.679225Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
You really are a faggot.