Post AyyzUE3M0AwExrGI7M by deobald@fantastic.earth
(DIR) More posts by deobald@fantastic.earth
(DIR) Post #AytJKDWlvvGsZcldYW by deobald@fantastic.earth
2025-10-05T06:09:37Z
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i've been thinking about code of conduct committees a lot recently, and i'm increasingly of the opinion that @thelinuxEXP has the right idea here:https://youtu.be/iMqpm2Ahmt0?t=1181how on earth is cocc/mod behaviour less transparent than full-blown court proceedings in cases where the effects are devastating to someone's career or mental well-being?a lot of people make a *really* big deal out of code of conduct training, as if a weekend seminar (or, god forbid, a 4-hour workshop) were somehow tantamount to a law degree. it isn't. when shit gets serious, real lawyers and police get involved.lawyers and police have real accountability.it's very weird to me that so many free software projects have somehow allowed themselves to install a self-appointed judge dredd. of *course* that's going to be full of bias and inevitably weaponized.codes of conduct are essential. but self-appointed committees need to be rethought or the nixos situation will just keep happening.
(DIR) Post #AyyzUCZtUDmMOCTFYm by matk@mastodon.social
2025-10-06T19:22:05Z
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@deobald @thelinuxEXP How would you organize it so that committee discussions don't become a public "show", damaging the accused even more, or dragging anyone who was abused into the spotlight where they don't belong and don't want to be?
(DIR) Post #AyyzUDjVBz3hyHyRAu by deobald@fantastic.earth
2025-10-07T20:44:04Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@matk @thelinuxEXP i think that depends on the community.first, and as an outside example, i volunteer with a (non-foss) nonprofit which has an extended community not unlike nixos or gnome. in this community, if someone sees someone else breaking the code of conduct, they speak to them directly. the rule of thumb is "speak to that person about the infraction no more than 3 times before escalating."not everything needs to work this way, but many f/oss communities would benefit a *great deal* from a process that specifically involves, like, communicating.from what i've seen, there is a tendency for people to skip that step entirely and immediately jump to escalation. it's a bizarre kindergarten of running to an authority figure as a first step, instead of trying to puzzle out the problem ourselves first.
(DIR) Post #AyyzUE3M0AwExrGI7M by deobald@fantastic.earth
2025-10-07T21:06:15Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@matk @thelinuxEXP assuming direct reconciliation is attempted, but isn't possible, then the extent to which transparency is applied is again dependent on the community ("how transparent do *we* want to be about these things?") and the specific situation.i get the impression nick is mostly referring to coc violations which happened in public, like on a forum, chat, or social media. then there probably isn't a great deal of secrecy required — at least not within the community's private/internal spaces. people have already seen it.if the violation happened in a private space, then perhaps those two people just shouldn't talk to each other alone or in private spaces. part of the problem, in my opinion, is using the language of court proceedings. "the accused" / "the victim" / "the abused" are weird terms to apply to pretty basic, everyday interactions under evaluation by non-professionals. when we find ourselves cosplaying as lawyers, our communities' coc processes have probably overstretched themselves.
(DIR) Post #AyyzULgFdxDCcWVxDc by deobald@fantastic.earth
2025-10-07T21:19:57Z
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@matk @thelinuxEXP i'm not suggesting there will be a perfect solution for every community. a very low-trust community may require additional secrecy, or vice-versa.but i was laughing to myself the other day that there are code of conduct committees out there who don't even tell someone what infraction they've been accused of... even the street judges at least told people what crime they'd committed before shooting a grenade at their car. 😜