Post AyBFo7M9Xm3thh5KLo by tobinbaker@discuss.systems
(DIR) More posts by tobinbaker@discuss.systems
(DIR) Post #AyB7FNPF50MbiFS9fU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:11:46Z
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I was aware that many (if not most) people on the right were not aware that BOTH of the people who tried to assassinate Trump during his campaign were right wingers... but I've discovered that the assumption that these attacks came "from the left" or "from Democrats" is also common among people who are less politically engaged. When I pointed this out I got an interesting response:"Are you saying it was a false flag?""No." I responded.
(DIR) Post #AyB7RVDtqG7FQpviOO by gbargoud@masto.nyc
2025-09-13T23:13:57Z
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@futurebird It's similar to when I describe the heritage foundation and project 2025 and get people thinking I'm talking conspiracy theoriesThese are things they straight up document for all to see and proudly sign their names to. If you were to confront any of those people about it they would probably give you more details rather than try to hide any of it.
(DIR) Post #AyB7XRqFKLRsgKhXFo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:15:04Z
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It's not that surprising. The idea that Trump would be shot at by someone from "the opposite side" is an easier to understand story than the truth: he was shot at by his own, disillusioned supporters. The tidal wave of misinformation from the right only adds to this impression. Though the "false flag" notion caught me off guard. As soon as a shooter proves to NOT be trans, black or otherwise demonizable media lose all interest since that ruins the drama.
(DIR) Post #AyB7d7Gcjg6ebmk3bE by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-09-13T23:16:03Z
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@futurebird the fash always do this. they always blame their own violence on somebody else. they want to avoid all consequence for their "free speech" and the violence they cause. it's not an assumption. it's a false accusation. it is *ALWAYS* on purpose.
(DIR) Post #AyB7eVUm8oWg2a1Zb6 by Hierarchy@mastodon.social
2025-09-13T23:16:19Z
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@futurebird they are still trying to push leftist agenda that he had turned against the right with that he had transgender partner (nothing confirmed)
(DIR) Post #AyB7mWWOD67rXVbNc8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:17:48Z
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It never occurred to me that when I'm pointing out the factual information about who these shooters were it might sound more like a conspiracy theory. There are a handful of people who have some conspiracy theories about the assassination attempts being "faked." There isn't any evidence to support this. A disillusion "super-fan" can be a terrifying thing. Kirk's death falls into a parallel lane. He was ... to the shooter *not right wing enough*
(DIR) Post #AyB7o0rUtHftvcBXHs by blueemu@shakedown.social
2025-09-13T23:18:02Z
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@futurebird It seems to me that a majority of US citizens think of politics just like team sports, and everything is forced into that narrative.
(DIR) Post #AyB7vUwVRvNlFW65Vw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:19:25Z
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@Hierarchy He was a groyper for crying out loud. This isn't that hard to understand at all if you know about them. I can understand the urge to not know about them. Knowing about them has made my life worse.
(DIR) Post #AyB7zeIMcQZTPjIflQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:20:11Z
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@burnitdown They are shooting each other so much I'd think they'd maybe want to slow it down a bit? This isn't a great trend for anyone.
(DIR) Post #AyB83nHt7xtaSg3QCe by davep@infosec.exchange
2025-09-13T23:20:53Z
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@futurebird And they appear to have been raised in some crazily violent subculture. The gun fetishism seems to be their only avenue of escalation.
(DIR) Post #AyB86ofmQv7RcvfduC by mhoye@mastodon.social
2025-09-13T23:21:22Z
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@futurebird have you seen https://imgur.com/gallery/this-guys-analysis-seems-completely-insane-kind-of-insanity-that-keeps-happening-r3Xk4ou
(DIR) Post #AyB87aWuVCXq3JtEkC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:21:27Z
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If you want to talk about left wing political violence Luigi is right there. Talk about him. That's what that was. It is equally obvious.
(DIR) Post #AyB8AEV8rOZmbKK8ky by bob@beamship.mpaq.org
2025-09-13T23:17:14Z
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@futurebird a real sniper would not have missed. He got simply votes
(DIR) Post #AyB8ENDeOCI0nV7Ifo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:22:49Z
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@mhoye No. But I find this all very credible.
(DIR) Post #AyB8Gbb9tn5hyNB1TU by floatybirb@mastodon.social
2025-09-13T23:23:12Z
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@futurebird Luigi at least started out as a right winger; I'm not sure where he ended up after his injury and where he is now.
(DIR) Post #AyB8mEAMYRqgZ8ioSm by thesquirrelfish@sfba.social
2025-09-13T23:28:53Z
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@futurebird I get this on an emotional level. I remember as a youth learning a librarian friend thought American crime & violence was because we weren't incarcerating enough people(this was late 90s or early 00s). There were so many people I was blah about being wrong or uninformed, but this librarian opining on subjects he was so uninformed about, with so much information available to him...I'm not violent or socialized for an expectation of violence so no temptation to harm him, but the temptation to become disengaged and write off librarians, Boomers, civil society generally? That I gave into for a few years. I understand political violence as an extension of my youthful disengagement for people who are raised to believe they will be able to violently intervene for good impact(also a factually uninformed belief but unfortunately common).
(DIR) Post #AyB8uV2zftlnEqDfhQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:30:26Z
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It was very surreal to listen to right wingers calling for "war" ... when just two months ago Democratic members of the MI legislator were targeted for assassination, one successfully murdered in her own home with her husband. What do you mean "Now this means war?" this isn't anything new.
(DIR) Post #AyB92aGo8lVNklXHHs by AMS@infosec.exchange
2025-09-13T23:31:53Z
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@futurebird s/MI/MN/ but yeah. And the state police came on TV and said "there's no way to tell if it's us at your door or the assassin."
(DIR) Post #AyB95QiC8NzKyfhdPU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:32:25Z
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@AMS How comforting.
(DIR) Post #AyB9EIER22z3He0dNo by stevenaleach@sigmoid.social
2025-09-13T23:33:58Z
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@futurebird I'm starting to think that the narrative form is the primary way humans are wired to think about and understand the world.It's why we want to make conspiracy theories out of stuff, religions out of stuff, etc. We think in terms of protagonists and can't care about things that are systematic and not character driven.We are fundamentally wired to anthropomorphize and shove protagonists and plot lines onto everything.
(DIR) Post #AyB9FvY6Kxj9VszGYi by tobinbaker@discuss.systems
2025-09-13T23:34:16Z
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@futurebird Luigi turned out to be not very left-wing, plus hatred of health insurance companies cuts across the political spectrum, so that was hard for the right to weaponize.
(DIR) Post #AyB9OVrJDpCGRW47MG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:35:50Z
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@jrconlin That is a political choice. Possibly they fear backlash, possibly they think it's a better story that way. It's been very telling to watch this killer morph from antifa-sleeper agent to "poor sweet quiet confused boy who needed help"Really it makes me sick.
(DIR) Post #AyB9ryKAT1G57nbwqu by minmi@sfba.social
2025-09-13T23:41:09Z
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@futurebird I’m seeing this bubble up, that the motivation was “not right wing enough.” Do we know that or are we sort of just piecing together the most likely explanation given his history of gaming, the casing engravings, his parents, maybe other info I don’t know?
(DIR) Post #AyB9u3G35xc50NfyqG by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-09-13T23:41:33Z
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@futurebird the cruelty is the point. it is always the point. it is never an accident. they do this so they can blame oppressed people and get more of their intended victims killed. like, they are even saying it out in the open. who they did instantly blame without knowing anything? there is always a purpose, and they always need an alibi.
(DIR) Post #AyBApYxvsXybqqcrgm by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-13T23:51:57Z
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@minmi He has connections to groypers who are pretty far right. They are also kind of nihilistic so some of that too.
(DIR) Post #AyBBm3bK8RzXf2wWVE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T00:02:31Z
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@mhoye Well except for Kirk being that important... but I do think some people on the right saw him that way. That seems possible.
(DIR) Post #AyBD6LkyRVEJiQhGsa by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2025-09-14T00:17:23Z
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@futurebird It's certainly quite amazing how fast that disappeared from all the media and from most people's minds.Literally a Democrat was murdered by a right wing killer in the name of the Republican party and just a collective shrug from this country. I wonder if most people even know it happened or if it was swept under the rug that quickly and easily...
(DIR) Post #AyBDEPzoZ4BzBFUBQe by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2025-09-14T00:18:50Z
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@futurebird The funny thing is, he wasn't really even left wing.
(DIR) Post #AyBDLd9A4KGhzgISYa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T00:20:07Z
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@nazokiyoubinbou There were a few signs I thought?
(DIR) Post #AyBDZHyTaFzgNooNzk by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-09-14T00:22:34Z
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@futurebird that's how cynical they are. that's how much they hate consequences for their own violence. they treat it as indignity, as if they didn't bring it on themselves. it's a very solipsist, hyper-individualised way of thinking about problems. if it's inconvenient for something that happened yesterday to have happened at all, then it never happened, even though you know you saw them do that. liberals pull this bullshit regularly. if it makes them uncomfortable, they will not acknowledge it, and reach for some other made-up reason why something happened, which absolves them of any responsibility.
(DIR) Post #AyBDcLvtK6oxWp40LQ by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2025-09-14T00:23:10Z
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@futurebird (Just grabbing the first URL as an example for your convenience: https://www.aol.com/luigi-mangione-political-views-left-012845942.html )The basic gist of it was that he wasn't really officially left or right, but if you consider most of the stuff he said and felt he really would have to be considered more right than left. He just had a particular hatred towards the American healthcare industry.
(DIR) Post #AyBEYpoqMfgn0zeZm4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T00:33:45Z
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@MightyRedPanda @tobinbaker "class warfare is almost assuredly a-political"I don't know about that.
(DIR) Post #AyBEhHiwV0JvsQvGKG by tobinbaker@discuss.systems
2025-09-14T00:35:16Z
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@futurebird @MightyRedPanda or rather it's a political nonstarter if it doesn't fit into the contemporary culture-war framework
(DIR) Post #AyBErHf9a5gOaDuzUu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T00:37:05Z
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@tobinbaker @MightyRedPanda I think it's more that Republicans see it as bait, and Democrats want to keep a lid on it. But, if you talk to people they are really into these ideas. They are popular. Rich people hate it!
(DIR) Post #AyBFo7M9Xm3thh5KLo by tobinbaker@discuss.systems
2025-09-14T00:47:42Z
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@futurebird @MightyRedPanda the fact that health care affordability is a huge concern across the spectrum and yet Democrats won't talk about it tells you all you need to know
(DIR) Post #AyBJ687ziHYDAik7u4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T01:24:36Z
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@nazokiyoubinbou Perhaps some one should run around saying "this is war" after to help focus the attention of the media?
(DIR) Post #AyBJAKUfgCB4gLLuLY by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2025-09-14T01:25:20Z
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@futurebird I think the media has shifted from "accidentally" helping the far right to openly purposefully doing so at this stage though. They'd probably still whitewash it.
(DIR) Post #AyBKjOYef19dNPV440 by gneilyo@mastodon.online
2025-09-14T01:42:51Z
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@futurebird Most right wingers don’t understand their own politics. They believe what they’re told to believe by pundits, influencers, their pastor, and of course POTUS, and so they have no ability to process events that don’t align with the narrative.
(DIR) Post #AyBZlrh6nmODdJ5eCG by minmi@sfba.social
2025-09-14T04:31:22Z
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@futurebird thank you!
(DIR) Post #AyBxIBd6W2n7fqb8qG by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T08:54:40Z
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@futurebird most stephen king novels are terrible, but there are some really good ones, and one of the really good ones is about this topic, but from the viewpoint of a writer dealing with a superfan.
(DIR) Post #AyC0ImZZSj3w74vB0y by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T09:28:42Z
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@futurebird we've been at war for decades. It's just that practically all the shooting and bombing is only done by one side. Even Luigi was a right-winger until the horrible usa health insurance industry impacted him personally. Even afterwards, there is still no evidence he shifted left in any other parameter.
(DIR) Post #AyCBRowf6sgjZbEaFE by Phosphenes@mastodon.social
2025-09-14T11:20:37Z
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@jrconlin @futurebird I'm hearing a lot of second hand information that he was right wing but no actual proof. I would *like* to believe he was right wing. What do we have on that other than ambiguous memes and a conservative family?
(DIR) Post #AyCBRqZL4ZDibqKzAW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T11:33:33Z
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@Phosphenes @jrconlin A majority of people think that the president was nearly assassinated (twice) by "the left" -- people have largely forgotten the assassination of a Democratic lawmaker. Forgotten that the CDC was shot up just weeks ago, and now the death of a conservative pundit is being blamed on the left as well. There is a larger pattern here that I'm worried a lot of people are missing. Or rather there is a big lie that is trying to crystalize.
(DIR) Post #AyCBt818JBDQXjLYlE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T11:38:31Z
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@Phosphenes @jrconlin I don't find the memes "ambiguous" groypers are right wing and they have been mad at Kirk recently. They 'joke' about these types of things. Disillusions right wingers attacking their own is a pattern. This could fit into it. Ask your uncle or coworker what they know about these events, how they have understood them.
(DIR) Post #AyCKAX3m0FiYeZ1gVk by crankylinuxuser@infosec.exchange
2025-09-14T13:11:16Z
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@futurebird @Phosphenes @jrconlin No, theres a bigger trend.This trend is the perception that voting doesn't work; peaceful protests get you shot at with less-than-lethal bullets, denouncing genocide gets you harassed and cancelled by extremist Zionists, etc etc etc.Now those perceptions appear true.It was IU Bloomington campus that had snipers on the roof for a anti-genocide peaceful protest in a designated protest space (Dunn Meadow). And thats just local.All of the peaceful outputs have been made null and void. Or worse yet, the "authorities" respond with mass violence, of which if law was applied to them, grossly exceeded force.Know what happens when all the peaceful options are gone? The non-peaceful ones come out. And I think thats what we're seeing, is this slow eventual societal understanding that shooting and killing people IS the only way to advance policy and social discourse. And that's a terrible terrible place to be.Sure, Charlie Kirk ran https://www.professorwatchlist.org/, an academic hitlist. Even had 1 in my area flee the country to evade harassment and assault. But again, he was also using violence, 1 step removed. He created the list, in the hopes that those who agreed with his message would 'connect the dots and finish what he nudged them toward'.But long form - social discourse and peaceful methodologies have basically been rendered useless. And that means that violence does indeed work to change things... Usually for the worse.This country, I think, is heading towards our second civil war, one shot at a time.
(DIR) Post #AyCNrBLIvGs7c4FqxU by log@mastodon.sdf.org
2025-09-14T13:52:15Z
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@futurebird Being low-information, credulous, and heavily susceptible to propaganda is an essential feature of being an apologist meatshield for the lying propagandists.For being willing to spin the most implausible of narratives, one wonders why they don't simply do what they claim was done at Sandy Hook, and hire crisis actors to invent their own tragic casus belli. Their groundling grunts don't verify facts.
(DIR) Post #AyCOFTMnYquESoXJNA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-14T13:57:01Z
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@log I'm just exhausted with the gymnastics of well if it wasn't an evil leftist then it was someone on the right doing it to frame the left... and not just... infighting in a group of people who have a lot of guns and their share of unstable people who constantly "joke" about this exact kind of violence. Why is that so hard to imagine?