Post AxthbOpuXhDg1WRunw by SRLevine@neuromatch.social
(DIR) More posts by SRLevine@neuromatch.social
(DIR) Post #Axtej5ABGq9TSktzRQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:02:08Z
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How much do you think it cost automakers to add seat-belts to their cars? Probably not that much, when compared with the overall cost of the car. This made it seem incredible to some of the public, for a time, that car manufacturers wouldn't be fighting legislation to force them to add seat-belts in good faith. But, there was, and always is, a lager issue at hand. To the auto industry seat belts represented public responsibility for the overall safety of their product.
(DIR) Post #Axtetdx2mfpiFgnFOy by Lyle@cville.online
2025-09-05T13:04:00Z
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@futurebird yeah, slippery slope, which did in fact happen. Collapsible steering wheel, air bags, all kinds of expensive safety tech that saved a lot of lives until we figured out how to make dangerous cars again
(DIR) Post #AxtfOruUw28MWQUYDY by noplasticshower@infosec.exchange
2025-09-05T13:09:40Z
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@futurebird I'm sure the Republicans can fix this by removing all safety requirements. You are free to add in your own airbags and seat belts as you see fit---post purchase.
(DIR) Post #AxtfqEylH2s7t4XPxw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:14:38Z
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To lose that battle wouldn't just cost them in nylon and the cost of steal buckles, it would represent ... creep. Creep towards the notion that they were in part responsible for the thousands who died in car crashes each year.
(DIR) Post #AxtgqayPbDha3W6j9k by SRLevine@neuromatch.social
2025-09-05T13:25:52Z
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@futurebird Did you also read Jessie Singer's There Are No Accidents recently?
(DIR) Post #AxtguNBcnhJGSG5aEq by capnthommo@c.im
2025-09-05T13:25:42Z
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@futurebird it also represented a tacit admission on their part that motor vehicles had inherent dangers.
(DIR) Post #AxthA04iUoXxPRJFVA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:29:24Z
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@SRLevine No, but I should check that out. I was just watching RFK in his congressional hearing. And thinking about how, even to me, it seemed implausible that this could just be about not wanting to pay for universal vaccines for everyone. That there are people who are alarmed and horrified by people getting yearly vaccines for the flu because if they admit it saves lives ... what else will the public demand?Better for every mother to "do her own research" and feel frightened.
(DIR) Post #AxthT0Jfp6SRexMpMW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:32:50Z
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@SRLevine I can understand the scared and confused antivaxer mom more easily than I can understand those in insurance, government who look at the modest (relatively speaking) cost of a vaccine, or clean water, or public toilets or seat-belts and quail because they think "What else will the rabble demand?"After all, there are so many simple things we could do that could save many lives. And so they muddy the waters, keep the "debate" rolling just to save a blood-soaked dollar.
(DIR) Post #AxthbOpuXhDg1WRunw by SRLevine@neuromatch.social
2025-09-05T13:34:20Z
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@futurebird I was asking because she goes into things like that and how our society is set-up to shift the blame to individuals for systemic problems like people dying in car crashes (and talks about the seat belt thing specifically). It's very well written.
(DIR) Post #AxthrtfffPsSI0WgN6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:37:20Z
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@SRLevine This is the only way to understand how President Trump deserves a prize for the rapid development of the COVID vaccine, but also COVID was fake, but also it was a bio-weapon, but also it's the vaccines... all of them now, that cause disease. It's not coherent, it's fear of responsibility. Why?They don't want to pay for it. All of these clowns were first in line for the damn shots and I don't know why that didn't tell everyone exactly what was going on.
(DIR) Post #Axthyq53PngDBFi1dQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:38:37Z
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@SRLevine Sorry for ranting but this is a lot to process. I don't like to think people are evil cheapskates, but some people are. You can learn this by studying history. If we get to look back on this it will teach the same lesson.
(DIR) Post #AxtiAYsnBKqHJkYzxI by DanielMReck@mas.to
2025-09-05T13:40:41Z
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@futurebird @SRLevine I'm bewildered by the economic argument some people make about all the money saved by not requiring insurers/government to pay several hundred dollars per person for vaccines. Even if only a fraction of unvaccinated people later get sick, require medical care, and some of them drop out of the working economy, surely the cost of those people's care and lost productivity adds up to more than the cost of the vaccines for all.
(DIR) Post #AxtiK1eZaBFl9dQQmu by flaneurben@urbanists.social
2025-09-05T13:42:24Z
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@futurebird @SRLevine You’re right; we should at least be able to expect that our enemies are •rationally• evil, it’s the incoherence and capriciousness that makes it even harder to deal with
(DIR) Post #AxtiXzWMJ9FEawF6DQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:44:57Z
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@DanielMReck @SRLevine Look at the seat-belt example again and it'll make more sense. It's not just the cost, although that is part of it. It's what it *represents* ... it represents an expectation that the government should have a role in preventing plagues. The for-profit world is unable to solve the problem. Do your own research, purify your own water, make your own seat-belt!
(DIR) Post #AxtiavGMayaiG29tYG by pewnack@aus.social
2025-09-05T13:45:26Z
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@futurebird @SRLevine But insurance companies know the probable cost of a payout an extremely unlikely vaccine related adverse event is absolutely and utterly overwhelmed by the probable cost of a payout for a chronic illness/disability caused by a vaccine preventable disease/cancer.Health insurance companies are by and large in favour of vaccines.
(DIR) Post #AxtidjT8twCWY3TYcy by SRLevine@neuromatch.social
2025-09-05T13:45:02Z
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@DanielMReck @futurebird It also doesn't make any sense from a monetary cost. The money for the vaccine production is all in the R&D, which is a sunk cost. The actual vaccine production costs on population scale are trivial. Yeah, if they were only producing a couple of thousand vials each vial would be very expensive, but they are typically producing 10s-100s of millions of doses. The drug companies are happy to charge insurance an arm and a leg since insurance will pay (and therefore we do by premiums or if we have to pay out of pocket as un/under insured), but they don't actually cost that to produce by a long shot.
(DIR) Post #AxtidkCs9umSpss4uG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:45:58Z
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@SRLevine @DanielMReck I used to think this. But, I think they might just be THAT miserly.
(DIR) Post #Axtip2bY60Rn57nfYO by mayintoronto@beige.party
2025-09-05T13:47:55Z
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@futurebird The death cult of personal responsibility. @DanielMReck @SRLevine
(DIR) Post #AxtisJtIHaGDYwfCtc by ekg@social.librem.one
2025-09-05T13:48:32Z
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@futurebird @SRLevineI think the bigger issue is one of perceived truth. Their exist a click of people that seems to belive society in its entirety is political theatre, the so called big government.That is the only way I have been able to rationalise the belief that banning abortion, vaccines, or what have you could classify as small government.
(DIR) Post #Axtj2HxEKyc8S7G4pc by RowanH@infosec.exchange
2025-09-05T13:49:04Z
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@DanielMReck @futurebird @SRLevine That is their intention. They are not interested in building a strong economy. They can extract far more wealth (in the short term) out of looting a crashing economy. They either know that they are burning the world down with climate change or they believe in the End Days, so they don’t care about long-term. They just want to have enough money to live comfortably while the world burns. And, since communities of color are disproportionately impacted by infectious disease, the Republicans are willing to sacrifice some white people if it means reducing the relative population of BIPoC.
(DIR) Post #Axtj2JL1C1EikBOaY4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T13:50:24Z
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@RowanH @DanielMReck @SRLevine ...or they assume someone else will rebuild once they get out with their pile of loot. Because they've watched their peers do it and dammit it's MY turn to get my slice of the pie!
(DIR) Post #Axtj8S4XdFRLZPcJGK by DanielMReck@mas.to
2025-09-05T13:51:31Z
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@futurebird Yes, I totally agree that Those-Who-Wield-Power are making an ideological argument as you explain.I'm thinking about those Useful-Personalities who get in front of cameras and microphones to sell a distilled version of the ideology to the Masses-Kept-In-Ignorance. They seem to be the ones who translate the ideology into populist pleasing arguments such as the economic argument.@SRLevine
(DIR) Post #Axtk8KE4u6LvBpa5hI by alec@perkins.pub
2025-09-05T14:02:28Z
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@futurebird @SRLevine people like him believe they got their position and wealth due to their inherent superiority and hard work. They see vaccine availability as an unfair leveling of the playing field. (And labor protections and abortion access and higher ed and DEI, really any effort that benefits the collective.)
(DIR) Post #AxtlcN6Gsm6ikGowMK by IcooIey@mastodon.green
2025-09-05T14:19:17Z
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@futurebird @DanielMReck @SRLevine I don’t think the seatbelt analogy holds up. Yes, your argument that seatbelts represented exposure for potential liability of other preventable harms due to inherent dangerousness of the product is valid. But that’s not the case with vaccines. The long testing and r & d phase is specifically designed to find possible harm prior to authorization. While COVID vaccines were emergency auth., massive data about safety exists.
(DIR) Post #AxtmGMyYlRVlwWHneK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T14:26:35Z
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@IcooIey @DanielMReck @SRLevine I think my point about seat-belts must not have been clear. When I say " To the auto industry seat belts represented public responsibility for the overall safety of their product." The product I'm talking about is the car. I'm talking about the public expecting cars to be safe and holding the manufactures responsible in part for the harm that cars do.This would lead to the public expecting even more safety features.
(DIR) Post #AxtmU3FCvEh8nib4KW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T14:29:04Z
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@IcooIey @DanielMReck @SRLevine When the seat belt "debate" was still going on one annoying argument was that seat belts could in some edge cases cause harm. And I think this is very similar to talk about the edge cases with vaccines. And part of what making this kind of muddying of the waters is effective is the drops of truth. The initial designs for seat-belts had flaws. They were still better than not having them and if they were mandated sooner more people would be alive. Period.
(DIR) Post #AxtoIyY4EyeWxaGUD2 by IcooIey@mastodon.green
2025-09-05T14:49:26Z
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@futurebird @DanielMReck @SRLevine sure, but what is “the car” in the vaccine case? There isn’t a comparable product for which either vaccine makers or insurance companies have responsibility.
(DIR) Post #AxtqbBoDsPTzCwdNzs by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-09-05T15:15:07Z
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@futurebird @RowanH @DanielMReck @SRLevine Or they take for granted that a lot of infrastructure is maintenance-free and/or easily replaceable by private institutions after "all those pesky poors" are dead.
(DIR) Post #AxtskLU9TAzxjUjvvs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T15:39:13Z
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@dalias @SRLevine or maybe they are just really thinking short term?or that if you are the kind of country that ensures everyone gets basic vaccines people will wonder about other similar things that save lives. Like prenatal care, better nutrition, etc. etc.
(DIR) Post #Axtv9zt6ahmgBdlrw8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-09-05T16:06:16Z
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@dalias @SRLevine The brain shift I've been experiencing is that there are people who would sell out human lives just to save a few hundred bucks. Like I said, the anti vax mom makes more sense to me. Is more relatable ... even though that one was a doozy to understand as it was.
(DIR) Post #Axu1H5pvTIuGO93D9c by burnitdown@beige.party
2025-09-05T17:14:45Z
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@futurebird @SRLevine it's also manufactured chaos, and it's abusive behaviour. one makes profit, the other grows fascism.
(DIR) Post #Axu1z1AICY9mdqWQRk by catmisgivings@stranger.social
2025-09-05T17:22:42Z
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@futurebird well, yeah. Both in the cynical profit-motivated way and also on the pragmatic level of ... oh great, now we need to do failure mode &effects analysis on seat belts, we need to write specifications for and do quality control on the nylon, we have to do supplier audits on buckle makers. Nothing in the automotive space is as simple as a strip of cloth