Post Axk8n0RLpL81177Zfk by angelo@social.veltens.org
(DIR) More posts by angelo@social.veltens.org
(DIR) Post #Axk8mxLDLhR9PDE8Bs by angelo@social.veltens.org
2025-08-28T19:01:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
On the one hand, I like the idea of @delta on the other hand, I struggle to find a practical use for it. If the receiver does not use it, I cannot really use it like I would use a messenger without confusion or even annoying my "chat partner". If I need to convince them to install it it's no benefit compared to other messengers like @signalapp , it's even harder to configure initially. So in consequence I just send a regular email or write a Signal message.
(DIR) Post #Axk8myUT4mQuyCZ2Fk by compl4xx@chaos.social
2025-08-28T20:00:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@angelo did you try to create a @delta profile in the past year? It's tremendously easy nowadays, 2 clicks basically, no password necessary, no personal data, no pre-requisites at all.Signal requires having a phone number, solving a captcha (twice for some reason), receiving an SMS, inventing some PIN...
(DIR) Post #Axk8mzfqfx8AdmtddA by feld@friedcheese.us
2025-08-28T20:03:52.197376Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@compl4xx @angelo @delta yeah, it's best to just forget there's any email underneath and have people register a chatmail account because it's instantaneous and so easy.
(DIR) Post #Axk8n0RLpL81177Zfk by angelo@social.veltens.org
2025-08-29T15:13:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @compl4xx @delta I thought the idea was to use my existing email, so that a) I can be reached by people who already know my email and b) I can reach people that only have email and don't want to install another messenger.I don't see a point in agreeing on yet another messenger and creating new profiles.
(DIR) Post #Axk8n1EyqopLV2LD1s by feld@friedcheese.us
2025-08-29T15:20:33.231729Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@angelo @compl4xx @delta What you are describing is the original plan from 2018, but it hasn't worked out well. Support for this isn't going away yet, but it's not the recommended way to use Delta Chat especially because you're allowing mixing encrypted and plaintext communications in the same account.Your existing email probably won't work very well. E.g., If you were in a group chat with 100 people you could only send 5 messages before your entire Gmail account is locked for 24 hours. Gmail limits you to 500 email per day and they count each unique recipient as a new email.These rate limits and other limitations on legacy email accounts make using DeltaChat mostly impractical, that's why the Chatmail servers exist. They have no limits, and Chatmail accounts can never send or receive unencrypted messages
(DIR) Post #Axk8n20U0CpBsMZ94S by angelo@social.veltens.org
2025-08-31T21:32:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @compl4xx @delta thanks for the explanation, then my assumptions were indeed outdated. But then again I wonder whether email as a protocol is a good fit for chatting. Why not instead use signal or matrix protocol?
(DIR) Post #Axk8n3EhQpn5gkE0rw by feld@friedcheese.us
2025-08-31T22:44:27.021247Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@angelo @compl4xx @delta A government can demand all of Signal and Matrix be blocked (currently happening in some places), but can't demand all SMTP/IMAP be blocked without harming themselves. We get reports all the time like "my friend is in China and the only secure messenger they can use without a VPN is Delta Chat"The protocol is old and some things are outdated (7BIT ASCII, binary attachments are base64 encoded, etc) but it works because email is too important.There are often concerns or complaints about email metadata and PGP, but people haven't paid attention to what Delta Chat has already done and what is on the roadmap:- Delta Chat as a custom client can move nearly all metadata into the encrypted payload including the email Subject, which people assumed was impossible (not when you control the clients!!)- the PGP implementation is written in Rust and has been audited multiple times; it also allows you to not expose the key metadata of who you're encrypting the message for- uses the same ed25519-dalek Rust crate as Signal- Post-Quantum Encryption is about to be released from Draft status for PGP and will be enabled for Delta Chat- Perfect Forward Secrecy is possible with Delta Chat as the client is fully controlled. An implementation has been drafted but other priorities supersede it right now- all mails can be sent with an anonymous address on the envelope like noreply@ because the clients identify the sender by the encrypted message contents, not the envelope; only the Chatmail operator your message initially went through will know the IP address and account name the message originated from- identities are tied to keys now and Chatmail allows instant anonymous account provisioning, so hopefully soon we'll see the core upgraded to automatically register ephemeral accounts across the public Chatmail servers. Each message can be routed from a different address and your contacts won't know it happened. List of addresses you're currently reachable at can be embedded inside each payload so they always know how to respond, and they can send the same copy of the message to every known contact address for you and it will all be gracefully handled / deduplicated by the client, etc- Delta Chat messages can then be routed over UUCP and Ham Radio, etc in case of a total internet blackoutLots of things are possible that can't be done with Signal for example. And as a bonus the users around the world aren't beholden to a US corporation / US-based internet hosting services