Post AxJeXoUPvaEQsHR8We by drahardja@sfba.social
 (DIR) More posts by drahardja@sfba.social
 (DIR) Post #AxJdyLvg7eQmA2HMDg by JeffGrigg@mastodon.social
       2025-08-19T01:27:54Z
       
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       @VoiceofDuum @futurebird I don't object to them coming up with convenient terminology like “force ratchet”, but I think it seems to be easier to explain and less general than they suggest:In the other examples they give, each "puller" has their feet firmly on the ground and is limited only by the lesser of their strength or their traction. But with the ants, the few ants "on the ground" have very limited "traction," on a flat leaf or paper, even further limited by the pulling force *up*.
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJdyMkj3rGQiMA7mq by JeffGrigg@mastodon.social
       2025-08-19T01:30:28Z
       
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       @VoiceofDuum @futurebird With the robot dogs pulling the truck, they get force equal to (the lesser of strength or traction) times the number of robot dogs.With humans, it's less with more people, … for "reasons." Maybe motivation? If so, then "Tug-of-War" contents with humans are even more interesting, as a somewhat less strong but more motivated team could win. Wouldn't that be "interesting," from the perspective of "interesting competitions" to watch or participate in?
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJdyNKAw3cWUIkR2e by JeffGrigg@mastodon.social
       2025-08-19T01:33:47Z
       
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       @VoiceofDuum @futurebird But the model for the ants is and should be an entirely different one: They are probably primarily limited by the *traction* of the few ants on "the ground" (the flat part of the leaf or paper). "Feet on the ground" being pulled *UP* by the folded leaf is probably a much more limiting factor than how hard the ants can pull.
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJdyNtGpZh2F9ASkC by futurebird@sauropods.win
       2025-08-19T04:03:58Z
       
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       @JeffGrigg @VoiceofDuum In practice what I've seen ants do isn't exactly coordinating.Often one ant is doing most of the work. The rest are try but they aren't in a position to do anything.A lot of flailing and struggling.If people moved a couch like ants some would be *on* the couch pulling up, some would be trying to hold it but not touching it, but one or two would move it with incredible force for a few seconds before another takes over.
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJdyRt3yHu6df6Lya by JeffGrigg@mastodon.social
       2025-08-19T01:34:00Z
       
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       @VoiceofDuum @futurebird Also, I've been thinking that the ants "on the ground" probably respond to any "slack" by stepping back, not pulling. [That's a hypothesis that could be tested.]
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJeCqBKRQWe2cVXHs by futurebird@sauropods.win
       2025-08-19T04:06:41Z
       
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       @JeffGrigg @VoiceofDuum This is why ants are intensely fun to watch. They solve problems in the most unexpected ways. Some of it is chance combined with their willingness to instantly use change to their advantage. I can say with some confidence that there is NO planning. It's like watching someone solve a puzzle by dumping the pieces out of the box over and over and mashing any pieces that fit together.  And yet the image still emerges.
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJeXoUPvaEQsHR8We by drahardja@sfba.social
       2025-08-19T04:10:27Z
       
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       @futurebird @JeffGrigg @VoiceofDuum Scientists are still trying to isolate the “PIVOT!” pheromone.
       
 (DIR) Post #AxJgavIXGqToldUQfA by futurebird@sauropods.win
       2025-08-19T04:33:26Z
       
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       @bri_seven @JeffGrigg @VoiceofDuum I suspect this is pretty important for ant moral. They will fight over who gets to carry things if there isn't enough to do.