Post AxEO284R1MEpHQM0MS by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
(DIR) More posts by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
(DIR) Post #AxDtgtmtvp8uHD74tc by contrapunctus@fe.disroot.org
2025-08-14T10:59:57.916622Z
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@GrapheneOS I like how this #Matrix issue has never been a problem with #XMPP. š
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115012285317476330For anyone looking to take a look (or another look) at XMPP, I wrote the The Quick and Easy Guide to Jabber/XMPP for new users.There are plenty of active communities on XMPP, you can find them on search.jabber.network/tags
(DIR) Post #AxDtgvmcVq6eSuzsjg by alrs@lsngl.us
2025-08-16T09:31:29Z
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@contrapunctus @GrapheneOS Seriously. #IRC, #XMPP, or don't bother.
(DIR) Post #AxEHR0ZZKr6paPphCq by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T13:57:48Z
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@alrs @contrapunctus We still have IRC channels. Hardly anyone still uses those and it's not a very good experience due to lack of the necessary features to have the content bridge well to it. Most people in our community wanted to use Matrix over IRC/XMPP once it was available as an option and now Discord over Matrix. Some platforms such as SimpleX had communities form naturally and we had to at least partially support them. XMPP similarly to IRC doesn't have many people who want to use it.
(DIR) Post #AxEJEGJ5iybEWrAwCm by alrs@lsngl.us
2025-08-16T14:17:54Z
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@GrapheneOS @contrapunctus The only disadvantage to #XMPP right now is that the iOS clients are kind of wonky, which in your case doesn't really matter. The #Conversations client as found in F-Droid is excellent, The console #Profanity client is good, #Dino on the desktop worked well enough for the five minutes I checked it out.Sign up for an account somewhere, and try out some of the larger public channels.https://search.jabber.network/channels/1
(DIR) Post #AxEJNQ3SqpaxMsETho by contrapunctus@fe.disroot.org
2025-08-16T14:08:43.169726Z
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@GrapheneOS @alrs Itās always a question of whether the project has the courage to push people to a better direction, or whether itās just going to go with the flow of whatever people are doing. (Packaged as āwe have to be where the people are.ā)You make an #XMPP channel, make it the sole official chat medium, and help onboard peopleā¦and people will use XMPP.The more the people and projects who do this, the sooner we bring the world to the standard, reliable, modern, and silo-free chat protocol.(And the more the people who use it, the more funding and developer love the protocol and the implementations will get.)
(DIR) Post #AxEJNROlr6ETXFD0YS by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T14:17:24Z
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@contrapunctus @alrs We won't be adding more federated platforms due to it being incompatible with reasonable moderation. Our community is too heavily targeted by raids. We regret using Matrix as a recommended platform and having it bridged to the other platforms instead of only as a secondary platform similar to how we handle SimpleX. We want a self-hosted, non-federated chat platform where everyone has to make accounts on our server. There are better options than XMPP for our use case.
(DIR) Post #AxEJNSPA788iekOpns by alrs@lsngl.us
2025-08-16T14:19:35Z
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@GrapheneOS @contrapunctus You can set XMPP up to be non-federated, like I do. You still get the advantage of a healthy client ecosystem without the raids. The only people on my server are the people on my server.
(DIR) Post #AxEJS0iOUX5CE3ZAvo by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T14:20:18Z
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@alrs @contrapunctus We've had a lot of experience with XMPP and have no interest in using it for GrapheneOS. We won't be adding any more federated platforms. We're only interested in a self-hosted, non-federated platform with similarly usability to Discord which can be used to replace all of our current chat platforms similarly to how https://discuss.grapheneos.org/ provides that for discussing GrapheneOS. We moved most discussion on other platforms including X, Mastodon, Bluesky and Reddit to there.
(DIR) Post #AxEJcJsm5A4KZIKzKK by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T14:22:15Z
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@alrs @contrapunctus We need a platform with similar usability and features as Discord with a high quality, fully functional client across platforms including Android, iOS, Windows, macOS and desktop Linux along with a high quality web-based client. It needs to support having multiple text channels with unified members and moderation where people can choose which channels within the server they want to follow. We want an open source alternative to Discord, not a fancier IRC.
(DIR) Post #AxEJrEmjJhqv6PcipM by alrs@lsngl.us
2025-08-16T14:25:00Z
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@GrapheneOS @contrapunctus "modules_disabled = { "s2s" }" in #prosody will make you an #xmpp island. I agree that bridges are a nightmare. I do think that modern #xmpp is pretty close to what you're looking for, and is worth checking out. I'll stop bugging you.
(DIR) Post #AxELHppUJCu3Te9zFI by debacle@framapiaf.org
2025-08-16T14:40:58Z
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@alrs @contrapunctusIMHO, the situation of #Jabber on Windows is worse than on iOS. The best client on Windows is #Gajim and it does not have A/V calls šThere are non-official builds of older #Dino versions, but they are not in the Windows app store and don't have message reactions and replies.
(DIR) Post #AxEO284R1MEpHQM0MS by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T15:11:43Z
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@alrs @contrapunctus We want comparable functionality to Discord rather than Matrix. Even ignoring technical issues and all of the abuse on the platform, Matrix isn't what we need for a self-hosted platform and we don't think XMPP is either. There are several projects trying to provide what we want but they lack full time developers and resources to accomplish it. https://revolt.chat/ is an example which is trying to offer what we want but is currently quite far from providing it.
(DIR) Post #AxEk3d2Da1Y8axRAIa by woody@pleroma.pch.net
2025-08-16T15:28:09.686423Z
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@GrapheneOS @alrs @contrapunctus I agree with @contrapunctus, this is a situation where it's better to think pragmatically about the long-term, and choose the technologically correct solution, rather than compromising in the short term, and choosing Mr. Right Now, when Mr. Right Now is a for-profit walled-garden owned by someone else, whose purpose is to monetize your users.Don't sell your users out. There's absolutely nothing you've mentioned that you want to do, for which XMPP isn't already the best technological solution. As well as the best moral solution.
(DIR) Post #AxEk3eXny4PVHDDuAi by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T19:10:40Z
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@woody @contrapunctus @alrs We already have Matrix as an option. We don't see a reason to add another federated chat platform especially when we've had such a bad experience with federation. If we're going to self-host it without federation, then there are more options to consider using. Right now we're waiting for a substantially better option than Matrix to come along which is actually competitive with Discord so we can use it as a true replacement instead of yet another very flawed option.
(DIR) Post #AxEk3fskzelRQU29T6 by alrs@lsngl.us
2025-08-16T19:18:31Z
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@GrapheneOS @woody @contrapunctus #matrix is bad, you don't need to tell me. Fire up an #xmpp client and jump on operators@muc.xmpp.org to talk to some people who have done what you need to do. I really do think that xmpp has the best open-source cross-platform story right now. As I said, I run non-federated #prosody, and I like it.
(DIR) Post #AxEk3kl8rOdyYJVdnE by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T19:13:07Z
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@woody @contrapunctus @alrs We have 4 chat platforms bridged together: Matrix, Discord, Telegram and IRC. We also have a group on SimpleX but for various reasons that's not fully official, not linked on the website and not bridged to the other platforms. We may eventually shut down Telegram and IRC as options to drop the abuse which comes from them. Matrix is being kept around as the main open source option. Eventually we can replace all of it with a non-federated self-hosted platform.
(DIR) Post #AxEk3qnUPa5RHKebHk by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-16T19:15:53Z
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@woody @contrapunctus @alrs We're happy with our self-hosted forum at https://discuss.grapheneos.org/ despite it being far from perfect software. We're quite happy with the choice of Flarum over Discourse and haven't seen a better option we might prefer. Flarum v2 should be a significant upgrade for us. We'd like to have something similar to replace Matrix and Discord, but it needs competitive usability / features with Discord and multi-session end-to-end encryption for private chats including groups.