Post AwjS134aUbYtPJPLhw by Life_is@no-pony.farm
(DIR) More posts by Life_is@no-pony.farm
(DIR) Post #AwjS0uQwc766c2nZo0 by Life_is@no-pony.farm
2025-08-01T01:11:39Z
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@CoMaps@floss.social The settings offer the option to use ‘Google Fused Location Services’. I assume this is so that this Google service can still be used even if it is disabled in the Android settings. @GrapheneOS offers an alternative #locationService. It would be nice if #comaps could use the #grapheneos location service in addition to the Google location service.In den Einstellungen wird die Verwendung von "Google Fused Standortdienste" angeboten. Ich nehme an, dies dient dazu, diesen Googledienst auch dann zu verwenden, wenn er in den Android-Einstellungen deaktiviert ist. @GrapheneOS bietet einen alternativen #Standortdienst an. Es wäre schön, wenn #comaps zusätzlich zum Google Standortdienst auch den Standortdienst von #grapheneos benutzen könnte.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0vPD03Ircwzhjs by leeloo@chaosfem.tw
2025-08-01T08:02:21Z
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@Life_is @CoMaps @GrapheneOSI'm curious what the GrapheneOS location service offers that GPS doesn't.Google location service tracks you, but GrapheneOS is supposed not to, so I guess it would offer something else?Also, does it not use the same API, and thus the same setting?
(DIR) Post #AwjS0w9eDORxwyin7g by Life_is@no-pony.farm
2025-08-01T08:52:11Z
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@leeloo@chaosfem.tw @CoMaps@floss.social @GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social GNSS (globale satelliten gestützte Navigationssysteme) wie GPS, Glonass, Galileo, Compass sind eine Möglichkeit der Positionsbestimmung unter Android.GNSS haben aber nur eine beschränkte Genauigkeit und sind nicht immer verfügbar (zB in einem Haus).Daher bieten Google und Apple ein alternatives System an: Das Gerät empfängt die IDs von Wifi, Bluetooth und Mobilfunksendern. Die IDs werden an Google (Apple) übermittelt und Google antwortet mit der (aus den bekannten Positionen der Sender errechneten) Position.Das erste Verfahren ist datenschutzmäßig unproblematisch, das zweite ist problematisch.GrapheneOS hat auf seinen Servern einen Cache dieser Sender-Positionen. Damit kann die Position statt über Google (Apple) Server über Graphene-eigene Server ermittelt werden.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0wqBfETg4uclQe by leeloo@chaosfem.tw
2025-08-01T08:58:52Z
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@Life_is @CoMaps @GrapheneOSIf they are talking about cell towers, fine, but if that includes other peoples wifi and bluetooth devices, that's still a privacy problem.Collecting random strangers' wifi ids was called "war-driving" before Apple and Google started doing it.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0xZCxqUSKXgibQ by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T13:53:24Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps Wi-Fi APs are mapped in many databases as static landmarks. They're publicly broadcasting radio stations. Having a map of those doesn't harm privacy in the general case. There's a special case where it can be a privacy issue when someone moves their Wi-Fi AP from one location to another such as when moving to a new home. Apple, Google, Qualcomm and others such as https://wigle.net/ have services using this data. Apple's data is easy to scrape from their service.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0yDcXaogLsazaq by leeloo@chaosfem.tw
2025-08-01T14:06:42Z
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@GrapheneOS @Life_is @CoMapsI subscribe to neither the "look what she was wearing", nor the "everyone else is doing it too" excuses for why something isn't harmful.I guess I'll have to strike GrapheneOS off my list of privacy respecting Android versions.And just to be clear, GrapheneOS (and Apple and Google) does not have my consent to store or process any wireless id (including but not limited to ssid, mac, ip) belonging to me. See the GDPR for further information on what that means.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0ymMSQbc5cqjk8 by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T14:42:11Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps > I subscribe to neither the "look what she was wearing", nor the "everyone else is doing it too" excuses for why something isn't harmful.We didn't say either of those things. We gave examples of the available services. We provide opt-in to using Apple's service.> I guess I'll have to strike GrapheneOS off my list of privacy respecting Android versions.Network-based location is a standard feature implemented across operating systems including desktop OSes.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0zIyVAh3im6mZs by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T14:44:45Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps macOS, Windows, GNOME, KDE, etc. use network-based location too. It's not something specific to Android and iOS. It's an industry standard feature provided by open source mobile and desktop OSes too. GrapheneOS recently added it as an opt-in feature for feature parity with other operating systems. However, our approach is a lot different from most of them other than iOS due to local position estimation and we plan to take it further than iOS with full offline support.
(DIR) Post #AwjS0zpwWb45N1X6xs by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T14:49:28Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps We don't have any system for collecting Wi-Fi AP data ourselves but rather are using Apple's service. We plan to host our own service based on Apple's data in the near future rather than solely having a proxy.Google defined a convention for opting out networks from mapping by adding _nomap as a suffix for the AP. Apple started following it in early 2024. Our implementation ignores APs with _nomap suffixes and there's no data available for those from Apple regardless.
(DIR) Post #AwjS10XBvnexX9leNM by leeloo@chaosfem.tw
2025-08-01T15:09:11Z
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@GrapheneOS @Life_is @CoMapsThe GDPR is quite clear that only opt in is legal. Your repeated "everyone else is doing it" doesn't hold.Everyone else is doing it because they can afford to laugh at a 2 billion EUR fine, just to show that they are evil.
(DIR) Post #AwjS11GZD5xJnszt6O by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T15:51:00Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps > The GDPR is quite clear that only opt in is legal.Network-based location using Wi-Fi APs publicly broadcasting their SSID is legal in the EU under GDPR.> Your repeated "everyone else is doing it" doesn't hold.That's not the argument for it being legal and ethical. We're pointing out it's strange to focus on us implementing a standard feature most people expect to have. It's used by other alternative Android-based operating systems and also the non-Android ones.
(DIR) Post #AwjS11r51LA9d8530y by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T15:54:52Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps > Everyone else is doing it because they can afford to laugh at a 2 billion EUR fine, just to show that they are evil.It's not something specific to large companies such as Apple, Google and Microsoft. The implementation used by desktop Linux distributions with GNOME or KDE is GeoClue:https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/geoclue/geoclue/-/wikis/homeMozilla used to run their own many of the operating systems without huge usage share were using for this feature:https://wiki.mozilla.org/CloudServices/Location
(DIR) Post #AwjS12WYX8L7hlUAfA by leeloo@chaosfem.tw
2025-08-01T16:17:40Z
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@GrapheneOS @Life_is @CoMapsMozilla is an advertising/AI company, people have yelled at them for their approach to privacy for years.
(DIR) Post #AwjS134aUbYtPJPLhw by Life_is@no-pony.farm
2025-08-01T16:50:39Z
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@leeloo@chaosfem.tw What do you use instead of Mozilla? @GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social @CoMaps@floss.social
(DIR) Post #AwjS13ccS4mf6rKWki by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T16:56:38Z
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@Life_is @leeloo @CoMaps For GrapheneOS, our network-based location implementation is opt-in with a choice between Apple's service and our proxy to Apple's service. Our proxy is what most people deciding to use the feature choose to use. We're working towards implementing our own database for our own service that's not a proxy including being able to provide full offline support. This will still initially be based solely on Apple's data.
(DIR) Post #AwjS14SjKKT3iTi8ye by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T16:58:44Z
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@Life_is @leeloo @CoMaps Contrary to the claim that it's illegal in the EU, the EU requires implementing an emergency call location standard (ETSI TS 103 625) for smartphones sold in the EU. Play services is the main implementation of this standard for Android rather than it being done at a lower level like E911 support used in the US, Canada and other countries. We plan to make our own ETSI TS 103 625 client/service. Look at https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/103600_103699/103625/01.02.01_60/ts_103625v010201p.pdf. It explicitly includes Wi-Fi positioning.
(DIR) Post #AwjS17dTWpqTYflGds by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-08-01T15:58:40Z
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@leeloo @Life_is @CoMaps Most operating systems, browsers, mapping/navigation apps, etc. using it is not the reason why it's legal. It's the reason why focusing on us having support for it is strange. You said this in relation to us supporting a feature other open source mobile and desktop OSes support too:> I guess I'll have to strike GrapheneOS off my list of privacy respecting Android versions.You don't have to publicly broadcast your Wi-Fi SSID but not doing it isn't really more private.