Post AwMHhWlMjf8XWHZaDI by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
(DIR) More posts by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
(DIR) Post #AwLmTDsD4ZPMIkTP7o by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T06:56:37Z
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Good morning, Madrid! This is the real beginning of #IETF123 https://www.ietf.org/meeting/123/For me, today, a lot of #DNS (DELEG https://www.afnic.fr/en/observatory-and-resources/expert-papers/dns-delegation-and-its-possible-evolution-with-deleg/ and DNSOP) plus AI preferences ("don't crawl me if it is for a non-free LLM") and HRPC (human rights).
(DIR) Post #AwLmbDeBnUuJutjD8K by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T06:58:04Z
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#DNS can do everything: https://mastodon.gougere.fr/@DNSresolver/114889917908428731 #IETF123 #Madrid
(DIR) Post #AwLmcGvp4UdOOPTi8u by froztbyte@mastodon.social
2025-07-21T06:58:05Z
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@bortzmeyer any idea how much will be streamed? The list I saw over the weekend looked extremely small, but wasn’t sure if it was still being uploaded
(DIR) Post #AwLmmmzwhhL6k0QD5c by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:00:09Z
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@froztbyte Look at the agenda https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/123/agenda and see the icon with a camera "full client with video". Most sessions are streamed on Meetecho (you may need a datatracker account but it is free).
(DIR) Post #AwLpN9z0vJYCMRSMZU by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:29:09Z
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Now, DELEG working group. Reminder: #DNS works too well, we are going to change everything (at last all the delegation framework, one of the most important features of DNS). NS records in the parent zone will disappear and the new DELEG record will have interesting new possibilities.https://www.afnic.fr/en/observatory-and-resources/expert-papers/dns-delegation-and-its-possible-evolution-with-deleg/#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwLpmm74IJYTrHRDay by jpmens@mastodon.social
2025-07-21T07:33:45Z
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@bortzmeyer are we all going to die?!!
(DIR) Post #AwLprJgvOQCb9rNJzs by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:34:35Z
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@jpmens More probably to spend the next 40 years deploying it and managing two different delegation systems.Expect many talks at conferences: "What is the current state of DELEG deployment".
(DIR) Post #AwLr1Sfqwy7hrqH7po by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:47:38Z
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Among the new stuff in DELEG: domain name delegations with just IP addresses, not names.(Do we still call it "glue"? Flamewar ahead.)#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwLrVJxDw0qlVjddOS by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:53:01Z
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"Does a name server have a name?"#philosophy #DNS #IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwLrgXUDxjCifLQIoy by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:55:03Z
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On the meetecho chat: "Everyone sing: Been to a Web Site via a DELEG with no Name."#DNS #IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwLrmEU5WbqFT94g7M by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T07:56:05Z
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Or in #GameOfThrones: "This name server has no name"#DNS #IEF123
(DIR) Post #AwLrqpAn3ikOPpEn6e by camille@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-07-21T07:56:54Z
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@bortzmeyer Whith with music theme ?
(DIR) Post #AwLsni6my5uHagReFs by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T08:07:33Z
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Other discussion: when a non-DELEG resolver queries an authoritative name server for a name which has only DELEG (not legacy NS), which answer? NXDOMAIN (nooooooo!)? SERVFAIL? NOTIMP?Warning: there are interactions with DNSSEC here (you need to prove the answer).#DNS #IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwLsstcRbExcjoixf6 by camille@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-07-21T07:57:28Z
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@bortzmeyer Oh sorry i just get it 😅
(DIR) Post #AwLssv0ESHaD1srTNY by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T08:08:28Z
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@camille "Been Through the Desert on a Horse with No Name."
(DIR) Post #AwLzvzwJFxCGt8RU36 by camille@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-07-21T09:27:28Z
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@bortzmeyer NXDOMAIN ? If no NS and not able to query DELEG, it seems that there no delegated domain for the failing resolver.
(DIR) Post #AwM24SJzofZR8egM52 by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T09:51:24Z
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@camille It will be hard to prove that with DNSSEC (since the domain does exist).Also, this is not the right semantic (and think of people using the DNS as a DAS).
(DIR) Post #AwM2zvj1APeqq2n9FY by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T10:01:49Z
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And now, #DNS again, with the DNSOP working group. Several things on the agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/123/materials/agenda-123-dnsop-01Including JSON in DNS error messages :-) #IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwM3z01LoHthpGUFSC by jpmens@mastodon.social
2025-07-21T10:12:50Z
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@bortzmeyer sometimes I wish you people just took the drugs and be done with it. 😂
(DIR) Post #AwM487c4x1zPyn13dw by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T10:14:30Z
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@jpmens In, the last iteration of the draft, it woujd be sent only if the client positively accepts it.
(DIR) Post #AwM5CrJ16pT8nxvGQi by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T10:26:34Z
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Other #DNS issue: censorship transparency. "You bad user, no cookie". How to report to the user that the resource was censored?#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwM5aQIr9iRQ0Y5GW8 by camille@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-07-21T10:30:47Z
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@bortzmeyer It’s true, i didn’t think about that. What means a DAS ?
(DIR) Post #AwM66Q0hmOmQMmqmfo by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T10:36:36Z
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@camille Domain Availability Service ("can I register example.com?")
(DIR) Post #AwMFqTmSzciIy6EF7Y by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T12:25:34Z
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And now, aiprefs, the IETF working group for expressing preferences to AI crawlers. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/123/materials/agenda-123-aipref-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/aipref/documents/[Stupid comments such as "but they won't respect it" won't help and will be ignored. I hate cynicism. Also, stop talking as if all crawlers were for AI and all crawlers had the same behaviour.]#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMGN6eG1HB6mSwkgi by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T12:31:39Z
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From now on, all my toots about the aiprefs meeting will be authored by ChatGPT.#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMHhWlMjf8XWHZaDI by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T12:46:34Z
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One of the drafts was accused of "eurocentricity" (I like the word).#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMJtk4VHPJgBATc0G by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T13:11:10Z
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Obviously, the biggest problem is still the classification of the different types of use. It's hard to fit the real world into a classification system. For instance, is translation a subset of "generative AI"?#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMKjv9fJkcrbylugC by camille@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-07-21T13:20:33Z
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@bortzmeyer EDNS 16 ?
(DIR) Post #AwMKxAz7m0c0TKA6N6 by camille@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-07-21T13:22:59Z
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@bortzmeyer SERVFAIL (DS in parent zone and no NS and not able to use DELEG) ?
(DIR) Post #AwMMjtBWqF0FPUkvfU by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T13:43:01Z
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Even "AI" is not properly defined. Everyone uses this acronym, nobody defines it seriously.#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMMvqG5Y1wJoDaX9U by zerkman@pouet.chapril.org
2025-07-21T13:45:08Z
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@bortzmeyer Is DNS Turing-complete?
(DIR) Post #AwMTNUOf1RRzq6AFYu by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T14:56:59Z
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And now, politics! HRPC (Human Rights and Protocol Considerations). See the agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/123/materials/agenda-123-hrpc-01#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMUY1knxKCc926vuy by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T15:10:31Z
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Maria Farrell on stage (virtually) for "Let's rewild the Internet". Make the Internet wild again (it is no longer an ecosystem, more an industrial plantation).#IETF123 @robinberjon
(DIR) Post #AwMUnk1pcsYXntZHgO by gregr@mamot.fr
2025-07-21T15:13:19Z
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@bortzmeyer @robinberjon wild wild web !
(DIR) Post #AwMVkrcP3CUMQdrk12 by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T15:23:53Z
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The important question to ask to people in power (no matter how small or big this power is): "How do we get rid of you?"If you don't have an answer, it means there is a democracy problem.#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMYJav7KFoAgTJ8xU by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T15:52:45Z
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Now, Shabnam Aslam (from https://Ainita.net ) about Internet shutown in Iran.The govenment architectured the Internet to make shutdowns easier.#IETF123 @ProjectAinita
(DIR) Post #AwMYn0jUR0IR8btc4O by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T15:57:33Z
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The shutdown was especially severe after the israeli attacks of 2025. It seems it is now over (but still with censorship).#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMZwEfG6cp0uHsaZM by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T16:10:55Z
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And more fun with Chantal Joris, on "Techno-legal frameworks applicable in armed conflict" "Warfare is becoming increasingly digital"#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMb7U4nFGQhqTkbJo by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-21T16:24:09Z
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Can we apply the laws of war (for instance the distinction between combatant and civilian) to online conflicts? The same Internet is used by everybody...(At #IETF, this is also related to the DIEM project, which meets tomorrow.)#IETF123
(DIR) Post #AwMcx0uv0HyuQEGbgW by jens@social.finkhaeuser.de
2025-07-21T16:44:39Z
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@bortzmeyer Let's not forget that "combatant" is a neologism invented to avoid attributing the rights to people that soldiers have in a conflict.
(DIR) Post #AwMjelDbKcZeCTFUPY by jhelou@mamot.fr
2025-07-21T17:59:17Z
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@bortzmeyer I'm curious: how would aipref be different from robots.txt ? (This is a genuine question I'm not trying to troll)
(DIR) Post #AwMpZLvkWWT632hff6 by altf4@hostux.social
2025-07-21T19:05:31Z
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@bortzmeyer I mean, everyone knows AI means Adobe Illustrator... It can also mean Artificial Insemination for all that matters (or could also be used for Air India)
(DIR) Post #AwNqXoPvvvw4vobwHY by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2025-07-22T06:51:40Z
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@jhelou robots.txt authorizes (or denies) on the basis of the crawler identity (which is painful when there are many ever changing crawlers).Aiprefs authorizes (or denies) on the basis of the usage (generative AI, image pro sessing, etc).