Post Aw2w3PO8fdyc5ROPFg by countdracula@mas.to
(DIR) More posts by countdracula@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AvyEGCCdpe0ULGSj5M by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-09T22:14:40Z
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@pluralistic Has Mozilla enshittified, according to your theory of the process and how it proceeds, or is something else going on there? Can we right the ship, or are we better to scuttle it and build a new one from fresh wood?#Mozilla #enshittification
(DIR) Post #AvyKKmPLlR95VryYPQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-09T23:22:57Z
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@Lydie > I don't *see* any enshittification in the UIMozilla doesn't have a UI. It's a developer community, under the yoke of a Foundation and a Corporation. Both of which have, for years now, been doing stuff that definitely looks like enshittification to me, and I'm not alone;https://grgml.xyz/blog/rip-mozilla-self-host-conundrum/It's not a new thing either, here's a piece I wrote about the cracks showing in 2017https://web.archive.org/web/20170409015059/https://www.coactivate.org/projects/disintermedia/blog/2015/09/07/mozilla-sells-out-firefox-users-for-market-share/(Is that you I quoted there @Wuzzy?)
(DIR) Post #AvyLGirZ6O1DJYno5A by Puck@sfba.social
2025-07-09T23:33:23Z
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@strypey @pluralistic I walked away from them. Using Vivaldi now.
(DIR) Post #AvyLW9FjGfNzVLSbTM by SpaceLifeForm@infosec.exchange
2025-07-09T23:36:12Z
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@strypey @pluralistic I do not think it will be easy to fork.A crowdsourced designed browser is probably the path forward. It will not be easy. Certainly, many will have input wrt to bad design choices.#Dragons
(DIR) Post #Avyg0Y7HO6PaOAHX7o by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-10T03:25:50Z
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Lot's of replies to this have missed the point completely. I'm not talking about Firefox. I'm talking about *Mozilla*. We need a community-driven Free Code browser. For that, we need coordination and governance. Mozilla was set up to provide that, for code liberated by NetScape.But Mozilla has observably failed to be a good steward for community-driven Free Code projects. Many projects have died or languished on its watch, including FF.So do we try to fix it, or build anew from scratch?
(DIR) Post #Avyg4TO0urBSsQypRg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-10T03:26:34Z
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@SpaceLifeForm See;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/114826802000846304
(DIR) Post #AvygB35L6MflKfNfyy by dancingtreefrog@mastodon.social
2025-07-10T00:03:50Z
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@Puck @strypey @pluralistic So, you moved from Mozilla to avoid "enshitification", to a browser based on Google's Chromium? Like Google has never enshittified anything, ever, I'm sure, as it continues to fight antitracking and support privacy invasion on the internet.Of course, bringing down Mozilla will also topple all other browsers that use its engine; none have the resources to do more than make their own individual patches to Mozilla source...Oh, well.
(DIR) Post #AvygB4H4gDeb1LsYue by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-10T03:27:42Z
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@dancingtreefrog @PuckSee;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/114826802000846304
(DIR) Post #AvygsG4agktA48dPFo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-10T03:35:31Z
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@Puck > I walked away from them. Using Vivaldi nowI would have said it more gently, but I agree with @dancingtreefrog that moving from a proprietary browser built around a Free Code browser, to ... a proprietary browser built around a (mostly) Free Code browser, is not a fix. The same forces that turned FF into a turkey are at work.There are plenty of community forks of FF which have much better UX, because they scrape off all the proprietary crud Mozilla trowels on top of the core.
(DIR) Post #AvyjNKdlxNV97J2Fqi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-10T04:03:33Z
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@nicktaylor See;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/114826802000846304
(DIR) Post #AvypCNO9zwmwBCtMpd by dancingtreefrog@mastodon.social
2025-07-10T05:08:43Z
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@strypey @Puck Not sure what you mean by "proprietary crud". Most Mozilla derivatives I've looked at seem to be, mostly, mindlessly following the Google Chrome school of UI. And I don't like the Google Chrome UI.
(DIR) Post #AvypOXVKDMX71m2jgG by dancingtreefrog@mastodon.social
2025-07-10T05:10:58Z
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@strypey @Puck Thanks, but I don't think Firefox has died under Mozilla's stewardship. If it dies, it will be because others are trying to kill it off. Maybe they want to boost the share price of their Google shares?
(DIR) Post #AvyrsPyEzMAEG4wXEe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-10T05:38:18Z
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@dancingtreefrog > don't think Firefox has died under Mozilla's stewardshipThen you have simply not been paying attention to the gradually rising temperature of the water you're sitting in. I suggest you search #mozilla in your app, do some reading, and catch up.> Maybe they want to boost the share price of their Google shares?Goggle have been running Mozilla for years. But if you have an accusation to make, you better back it up. Otherwise this is a smear, pure and simple.@Puck
(DIR) Post #AvysXXX7m9dfaPrszw by dancingtreefrog@mastodon.social
2025-07-10T05:46:08Z
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@strypey OK, be that way. Goodbye!
(DIR) Post #AvzA2UsZOMfRYKFKvQ by Wuzzy@cyberplace.social
2025-07-10T09:02:13Z
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@strypey Yes, that comment was mine.
(DIR) Post #Aw2OLut0u5vOXyUIy0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-11T22:26:51Z
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@Wuzzy > Yes, that comment was mineNice one. Were you aware you'd been quoted?
(DIR) Post #Aw2RibL235s0RV6Msq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-11T23:04:32Z
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(1/2)@nicktaylor > doesn't have quite the relentless imperial logic of the monopoly platforms on account of not being a monopolyThat's the standard PR line if enshittifiers. Oh no, they say, we're not a monopoly, here's a subtly misleading framing of the market situation that shows we have competition. Goggle kept Firefox alive purely so it could tap that sign, as a hedge against antitrust enforcement on its Chrome monopoly.
(DIR) Post #Aw2SBFuultqCP5Y6Ns by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-11T23:09:45Z
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(2/2)FF's market segment is Free Code web browsers not owned by DataFarming corporations. Unless you count its own forks, all of which are small-scale community efforts that depend 100% on upstream, Mozilla had a total monopoly on that market.Of course, now Mozilla have done an Ubuntu and become DataFarmers too. Which is why I'm asking question to figure out whether to reform or revolt.
(DIR) Post #Aw2v02RXQLTS6IoOLw by countdracula@mas.to
2025-07-10T06:38:13Z
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@nicktaylor @strypey I'm starting to warm up to Vivaldi too. The latest reason is that Mozilla is forcing an AI on Firefox users with no real way to turn it off, at least from what I see.
(DIR) Post #Aw2v03dyxZ1RpBdqO8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-12T04:32:37Z
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@countdracula> The latest reason is that Mozilla is forcing an AI on Firefox users with no real way to turn it offThat's a good reason to switch to one of the many FF forks that scrape off all the extraneous crud Mozilla trowels onto it. Not something you can do if a proprietary browser like Vivaldi decides to force a Talking #MOLE ("AI") on you, or ads, or any other kind of enshittification.
(DIR) Post #Aw2via2XsAc92cMQrI by countdracula@mas.to
2025-07-12T04:40:36Z
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@strypey Apparently DDG's AI talks with third-party chat models."Duck.ai lets you have anonymous conversations with 3rd-party AI chat models, including models from OpenAI, Anthropic, and others. Turning this setting off will hide Duck.ai buttons and links on DuckDuckGo Search. However, you can still access Duck.ai when this setting is off by visiting https://duck.ai directly."It behaves when turned off, unlike Firefox's one.
(DIR) Post #Aw2w3PO8fdyc5ROPFg by countdracula@mas.to
2025-07-12T04:43:45Z
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@strypey So, I use Vivaldi for now. I've looked at other FF offshoots. Some are decent, while others are a bit hard to work with.I might have another look at Seamonkey to see what might happen with it.2/2
(DIR) Post #Aw8wgXt6w4ri6BjqsK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T02:19:49Z
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(1/2)@nicktaylor I take your point about browser lock-in being theoretically weaker than platform lock-in. But you may be letting a definition of "web browser" obscure the reality of how we depend on the one we're used to.In practice, right now, switching browsers means losing (or gaining) a bunch of product-specific affordances. Most notably, as of late, the ability to use browser extensions to dis-enshittify the base browser without coding knowledge. As well as interface familiarity, etc.
(DIR) Post #Aw8xO61dt9yyQWUn1k by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T02:27:41Z
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(2/2)@nicktaylor> re: "From the ground up" - Ladybird is having a goAwesome, thanks for the tip. @alcinnz has been developing a browser from scratch for a while.But again, my question is focused on replacing *Mozilla*, as a coordination and funding scaffolding. FireFox could easily be hard forked if Mozilla is irrecoverable. The question is how to fund that properly, and how to set up governance to hedge against enshittification (eg a platform co-op owned by devs).
(DIR) Post #Aw8zKxNLnAYYdhHQeW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T02:49:18Z
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(1/2)@countdracula > Turning this setting off will hide Duck.ai buttons and links on DuckDuckGo ... It behaves when turned off, unlike Firefox's oneGood to know. But none of the FF forks I use (LibreWolf and ABrowser on GNU/Linux, Fennec F-Droid) include the Trained #MOLE. Because like the Adobe DRM module they ship, it's proprietary software.Forking Vivaldi to remove undesirable add-ons is not possible, because it too is proprietary. Your only option is to switch to another Chromium fork
(DIR) Post #Aw8zaePo3Pf0T4ud4C by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T02:52:22Z
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(2/2)TBH I find auto-summaries with sources footnoted, and traditional web search results still available, to be one of the least offensive applications of a Trained #MOLE.Are they any more useful than just having the search results, with prominent quoting of relevant Wikipedia pages? Probably not, and I would abandon any search portal that forced model-generated summaries on me, in place of actual links to web pages. But as an optional extra I don't hate them all that much.
(DIR) Post #Aw911hPL8UljWQ9iLY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T03:08:28Z
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PS My apologies @nicktaylor, now that I've read more into Ladybird I see they're doing both. Creating a new browser *and* a new not-for-profit for it. I'll be intrigued to see how they plan to structure the org to avoid Mozilla's fate.Also why they decided to start from scratch, instead of forking at least some components of a working libre browser. Even if only to swap them out over time, as Chromium did.#WebBrowser #LadyBird #Mozilla@alcinnz
(DIR) Post #Aw94eytOMUkquEdQnI by countdracula@mas.to
2025-07-15T03:49:02Z
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@strypey I've switched to Qwant. It also has an AI component, but appears to be activated only if one gets an account with Qwant.At least they offer that as an opt in feature rather than having to opt out.
(DIR) Post #Aw9ClL8tLhYrHfQb6O by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T05:19:57Z
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@countdracula > It also has an AI component, but appears to be activated only if one gets an account with Qwant.At least they offer that as an opt in feature rather than having to opt outSee;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/114854981986214962Whether an AWOR (1) is opt-in or opt-out is not nearly as serious as issue to me as whether the code running on my own devices is libre; independently auditable and fully modifiable, with the freedom to share mods around.(1) Amusing Waste of Resources - mainly their resources
(DIR) Post #AwAjNiCzQgvZW9e6Hw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-07-15T23:00:07Z
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Me:> Also why they decided to start from scratch, instead of forking at least some components of a working libre browserAgain, further reading has allowed me to answer my own question. SerenityOS was an itch-scratching project where the goal was to try out entirely new approaches. One of the reasons for spinning Ladybird into its own entity is to move away from that, and start making use of existing code where it makes sense.#SerenityOS #Ladybird@nicktaylor @alcinnz