Post AvLHOISn2MatdPxFsO by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
(DIR) More posts by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
(DIR) Post #AvGRrtfTokoHAjqNd2 by j12t@j12t.social
2025-06-18T17:37:36Z
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We need to separate identity from servers in the ActivityPub world. It's time. I should be able to have a single identity and use it with lots of servers from Mastodon to Lemmy and beyond.Then, various instances could reflect different communities with different people in them, different features and policies.This also would elegantly solve the "instance selection paralysis" in @tchambers 's Deadly Fediverse UX sin #1.Fortunately @benpate is starting to assemble people to solve this.
(DIR) Post #AvGRruwt3WKP90znOq by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2025-06-18T19:19:46Z
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@j12t @ricmac @tchambers @benpate I'd love for this to happen but we're also stuck in the stage of replicating corporate platforms, instead of thinking about what we can do that they can't.#ghost and #wordpress are doing this by making the article an AP item, instead of linking to it from a post. Maybe lemmy and mastodon should merge. most people don't post videos so maybe they don't need a #peertube account. maybe it should function more like podcasts. same with #funkwhale and #bandwagon.
(DIR) Post #AvGRrznV1qn2BLdrxg by j12t@j12t.social
2025-06-18T17:37:52Z
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Here's his post about the UX sins: https://www.timothychambers.net/2025/06/18/113327.html
(DIR) Post #AvGSAyqimHigkBCYtM by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2025-06-18T19:23:14Z
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@tchambers @j12t @ricmac @benpate I know this takes time to get our heads around too. it was exactly this situation when TV started, they were doing radio plays in front of a camera etc.
(DIR) Post #AvGUmHY4PwDhMSONo8 by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2025-06-18T19:52:20Z
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@j12t @ricmac @tchambers @benpate but doesn't the ID live somewhere? I'd worry the people running those services eventually exert power...I think we need servers based on locality with a shared set of proven rules most of those kinds of servers can adopt. and that server software needs to handle what most people want to do. most personal accounts are on one of these.but of course this requires breaking out of the dedicated app/server concept we brought over from the corporate world.
(DIR) Post #AvGXScGxxJLHhshqS0 by j12t@j12t.social
2025-06-18T20:22:19Z
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@wjmaggos @ricmac @tchambers @benpate There are a variety of possible answers to how to do that. Before we pick, we need to understand the tradeoffs. And before understanding the tradeoffs, we need to have enough consensus that there is a problem that needs to be solved. Which is the step I'm trying to help with right now :-)
(DIR) Post #AvGmV637iSKvwus8TA by benpate@mastodon.social
2025-06-18T23:10:56Z
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My unpopular opinion: I *love* making decentralized clones of corporate tech.Historically, innovation happens in startups who take a risk and break new ground. So, let them figure out the costly product/market fit. OSS products ALWAYS lag behind the corporates.We just need to 1) copy them one-by-one 2) expand their value prop with the unique advantages of an open, federated network of millions of existing users, 3) win fair-and-square in the marketplace.@wjmaggos @j12t @ricmac @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AvGnK4nU8D2QpmrmS0 by pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu
2025-06-18T18:47:59Z
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Aaah, they're trying to reinvent the wheel again.Just ask Mike Macgirvin or take a look at Forte: Nomadic identity with ActivityPub... already fully developed.
(DIR) Post #AvGnK5oaLbVpzUOAnw by benpate@mastodon.social
2025-06-18T22:46:53Z
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@pepecyb I'd rather say:"rediscover the wheel".. the Fediverse is *excruciatingly hard* to navigate, and I'd love to have your help.So there was this cool discussion at #FediForum. Nomadic Identity with #Zot came up, along with W3C LOLA and others.So now, I'm just trying to continue the FediForum discussion and collect info about what's out there. I've promised the wagoneers on #Bandwagon that they'll be able to take their accounts anywhere.So, is Zot the one true way to get this done?
(DIR) Post #AvGoKihlr4GwYo43mK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-06-18T23:31:49Z
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@mikedev > explore the fediverse and find out what others developers are doing and have already done in this areaThis ...https://fediversity.site/item/9f514756-42b7-4e3d-9a5e-2561fae9c8ce... could have been a really useful contribution to the discussion with about 90% less snark and links to examples. Here's a couple of good starting points for work on portable identity in AP;https://wedistribute.org/2024/03/activitypub-nomadic-identity/https://wedistribute.org/2024/03/extending-activitypub/@j12t @tchambers @benpate
(DIR) Post #AvHGmMtvJRTNlGikka by evan@cosocial.ca
2025-06-19T00:43:37Z
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@cmdrmoto @j12t @tchambers @benpate if that's important to you, there are a number of self-sovereign identity systems that provide DNS gateways. .eth, .onion, and more.
(DIR) Post #AvHGmNjKEKacKglns0 by evan@cosocial.ca
2025-06-19T00:45:12Z
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@cmdrmoto @j12t @tchambers @benpate also, there are 300M registered domains. It's not just for nerds. People know that you need to have your own email domain and web site domain to have data portability. There's no reason social networking should be different.
(DIR) Post #AvISa4HK7Obh8aWkBU by benpate@mastodon.social
2025-06-19T15:41:32Z
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Hey Mike, it's awesome that you're in this dicussion!Two things: 1) I got press-ganged into helping continue a #FediForum discussion. We were trying to understand the landscape of overlapping/conflicting standards. Zot/Nomad/Forte absolutely came up alongside W3C LOLA.2) None of the solutions feel very approachable. Documentation is thin, and examples are hard to find. Beyond the text of FEP-ef61, where should I go if I want to start building support into my own apps?@mikedev
(DIR) Post #AvISaKexDJ13wVhqEq by benpate@mastodon.social
2025-06-19T16:59:33Z
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Thanks for the info! And yes I'm excited about Mitra's progress in this area :)In general, specs and docs are the key to getting developers to adopt technologies. I need example file layouts, diagrams, and a testable server.The W3C isn't great at this, but they're far ahead of Forte in this regard. If you want Nomad protocol to really take off, I'll encourage you and Mike to build the tools so others can follow your path.@mikedev@jupiter_rowland
(DIR) Post #AvLHO21c9dLieV7KIS by rockmanjoe@fosstodon.org
2025-06-19T05:01:03Z
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@j12t @tchambers @benpate someone actually solved this years ago, check it out: https://solidproject.org/
(DIR) Post #AvLHOISn2MatdPxFsO by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
2025-06-19T08:44:29Z
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@RockManJoe Hahaha.Tell you what: @Mike Macgirvin ?️ has decentralised Fediverse identities as early as 2011. He invented nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity, https://opennomad.net/page/nomad/home) almost five years before Mastodon was made. And he first implemented it in 2012 on what would later become Hubzilla (https://hubzilla.org, https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla). That was still almost four years before Mastodon was launched.Oh, and by the way: Hubzilla is very much part of the Fediverse. It is very much (albeit optionally) connected to and federated with Mastodon. I am replying to you right now from a Hubzilla channel which simultaneously and identically resides on two independent servers.Nomadic identity is reality now. It is being daily-driven right now, and it has been daily-driven since long before Solid was even announced.Solid is nothing but Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte (both are descendants of Hubzilla by Hubzilla's creator) as ordered from wish.com. A cheap and shoddy knock-off.CC: @Johannes Ernst @Tim Chambers @Ben Pate 🤘🏻#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NomadicIdentity
(DIR) Post #AvLHOKt61WpD9aHI9o by benpate@mastodon.social
2025-06-19T15:52:12Z
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@jupiter_rowland @mikedev @j12t @deadsuperhero @tchambers @rockmanjoe @tom @strypey @evanNot exactly a reply to Jupiter's post, but since we're all here I'm looking for an easy on-ramp for developers to start getting our heads around *actually building* this stuff.But specs, documentation, testing tools are all very hard to find.There's an etherpad at https://emissary.wiki/p/IdentityI'd LOVE for you to fill in the gaps in my understanding. it would be a huge win.I'll be serving punch and pie.
(DIR) Post #AvLHOLcpHVP9RPfoR6 by j12t@j12t.social
2025-06-19T17:10:01Z
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@benpate @jupiter_rowland @mikedev @deadsuperhero @tchambers @rockmanjoe @tom @strypey @evan I'm the chair of the newly formed task force in the W3C that can now maintain activitypub.rocks, which is referenced from the ActivityPub standards docs. Your ideas -- and help -- for what it should say very much appreciated. Suggesting to start with https://github.com/swicg/activitypub.rocks/issues
(DIR) Post #AvLHOM8jMsvR2MbIAK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-06-21T03:16:05Z
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(1/2)My attempt to convert @ailurocrat's sentiments into an actionable policy;Wherever the documentation at ActivityPub.rocks has to make a choice between what works for community-scale tinkering, and enterprise-scale deployments, it MUST favour the former.@j12t @benpate @jupiter_rowland @mikedev @deadsuperhero @tchambers @rockmanjoe @tom @evan
(DIR) Post #AvLIINMzyuvz4KzE4u by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-06-21T03:26:22Z
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(2/2)2 reasons for this policy off the top of my head;* Economic justice: enterprises have more resources (often *far* more) to adapt what they find in the docs to their scale than communities do* Technical progress: most genuinely new invention - including most of what makes up the net, the web, and the fediverse - comes from small-scale social contexts, where low-stakes experimentation doesn't need to wait for permission. Enterprises then take what works, systematize it, and scale it up.