Post AtLFcNv2jvuCKMAMCm by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
(DIR) More posts by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
(DIR) Post #AtGF1Be0RWSPkjezOi by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:11:05Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
The leader of the /e/OS project and Murena company, Gaël Duval, has been ramping up his attacks on GrapheneOS. His community has been engaging in an increasing level of harassment towards our team including in response to our post on Mastodon about one of our senior developers being conscripted.
(DIR) Post #AtGIBZ24dmsh33Ycj2 by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:15:30Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Gaël Duval has been making false and misleading claims about GrapheneOS for years with the aim of steering people away from it. In response to us debunking these claims, he's now increasingly engaging in targeting our other senior developer with harassment based on fabricated stories about them.
(DIR) Post #AtGIBfHXPCoeQkq3f6 by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:17:48Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Gaël Duval has been regularly engaging with and boosting harassment content targeting us from Kiwi Farms users and their supporters. His supporters are now doing this at a large scale. The other people at /e/OS and Murena are complicit in this harassment towards our team, as are their partners.
(DIR) Post #AtGIBlp55PDEiWZvmK by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:24:49Z
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It's very clear they plan on ramping this up further by pushing their false narratives and fabrications about us on a larger scale. It will likely be heavily based on existing content pushing fabrications about our team, which they'll promote even more to their community to coordinate harassment.
(DIR) Post #AtGIBrxSHBTZkEXhfE by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:31:26Z
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This is a very serious situation which involves the escalation of existing violence towards our team including swatting attacks. If there is anyone at all reasonable at /e/OS or Murena, they should do everything in their power to stop Gaël Duval's attacks on us before he escalates this further.
(DIR) Post #AtGIsrdRLtYZCBgMbI by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:50:02Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
We're starting work on a long form article about /e/OS and Murena demonstrating how they're falsely marketing extraordinarily insecure and non-private software without even basic privacy/security patches or protections. They're scamming both Murena customers and governments providing large grants.
(DIR) Post #AtGIsxLw5t7UvdXT9M by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-19T21:51:41Z
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We'll also be covering their extensive long term attacks on both DivestOS and GrapheneOS. DivestOS was a project providing harm reduction for end-of-life devices which unlike /e/OS was being honest with users and helping them. The attacks from /e/OS on DivestOS were a major factor in it ending.
(DIR) Post #AtGxsy8VHHVZTkNels by faebudo@ioc.exchange
2025-04-20T05:29:47Z
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@GrapheneOS I think it is always ill-advised attacking competitors, no matter the reason.It would be better from my viewpoint when GrapheneOS had a FAQ page listing the points that are listed against them and the answer to rebut the point including references to code/forum posts etc supporting it. So I don't have to search for social media for it but can refer to this FAQ page instead.
(DIR) Post #AtGxsz3vplRgLrFWHg by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:32:33Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@faebudo /e/OS is hardly a competitor to GrapheneOS. It's a non-hardened OS project substantially reducing privacy and security compared to AOSP. It doesn't provide the basic Android privacy and security patches. It would make more sense to refer to Apple as a competitor. They make reasonably private and secure devices which have both advantages and disadvantages in those regards along with having better rather than worse usability. Apple has also never tried harming us with attacks.
(DIR) Post #AtGyJytsXq47fRQ81Y by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:34:28Z
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@faebudo Making a long form article responding to attacks from /e/OS is us defending ourselves. /e/OS and Murena have been attacking GrapheneOS for years because they feel threatened by the fact that GrapheneOS is highly usable and provides broader app compatibility. They cannot accept that and insist on trying to pretend that's not the case to steer people towards their products. They're giving up on that angle and resorting to attacks on our team members based on harassment content.
(DIR) Post #AtGyJzXaADpBeZzpuS by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:35:49Z
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@faebudo Adding sections to our FAQ explaining that fabricated claims about our project and team members aren't true doesn't really make much sense. For that to make sense, it has to be in the context of responding to the people doing it. Their focus is on attacking our team members with fabricated stories, spin and name calling. They do not focus on technical aspects and that's not the problem. Their false claims about technical things, usability, compatibility, etc. are widely debunked.
(DIR) Post #AtGyK07jzmkRSiuiGm by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:38:38Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@faebudo Their false claims about our team and harassment towards us are not something other people bother to debunk or counter. That leaves us to defend ourselves from it.How do you expect us to debunk their baseless claims about our team members and community based on fabrications and spin? They do not provide evidence for it but rather engage in DARVO tactics. It's our rooms getting raided, our developers being harassed and swatted, etc. The groups doing this are the toxic communities.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPDMSCtRDxtHWXw by TMakarios@theres.life
2025-04-20T00:01:14Z
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@GrapheneOS What you've been saying so far does seem to have a ring of truth about it, but I would have a lot more confidence if it came with easily verifiable claims, such as links to parts of their source code you think are problematic, with links to corresponding parts of your own source code, and an explanation of the difference. A long-form article is probably a better place for that than a series of toots.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPDPzziH28swM4W by ro@mastodon.nl
2025-04-20T04:49:37Z
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@GrapheneOS I wonder if anyone at @Fairphone #fairphone is watching this happening and asking themselves what it means for their business.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPEFOubOGiIzPBw by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T00:00:48Z
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@TMakarios See the third party comparison at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm which is a high quality comparison site the author maintains for comparisons between many different things, and he is very open to accurate feedback. There are 2 rows for patches with accurate information on the substantial delays for privacy and security patches in /e/OS. These delays are understated in the table because it shows the best case on the devices they lag least far behind, as it does for the others too.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPEpuiqb6XY4Z6W by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:24:50Z
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@ro @Fairphone /e/OS and Murena played a substantial role in destroying DivestOS with dishonest attacks and the harassment they directed towards the developers. /e/OS and Murena are misleading people about what they provide. In reality, they provide an extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS with a shocking level of disregard for privacy and security. A product marketed as private lacking basic privacy/security patches and not keeping the basic privacy/security model intact is quite strange.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPEuWRiHelqEFHs by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T00:01:57Z
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@TMakarios You can see his frequent attacks on GrapheneOS with false claims about us in his social media feeds on X, Bluesky and Mastodon. https://mastodon.social/@gael/with_replies is for Mastodon. He has many recent replies attacking us and pushing fabricated stories about us. His community is regularly involved in it and has repeatedly linked to harassment content in reply to his posts. He does it expecting that will happen and then helps to spread it. You can check X and Bluesky yourself, that's easy to find.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPFK2uohU30Ad4S by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T00:02:57Z
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@TMakarios Go to our main feed and scroll down a bit. You'll see a response to an attack from him on Bluesky with a link to it. Scroll down a bit more, you'll see a response to dozens of attacks he was making across Mastodon, Bluesky and X with 3 specific examples from X because we originally posted the thread on X after he did it there again. There are more examples on Mastodon than X including better ones than what we used but that was what we were responding to at the time.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPFjZNv7JKA70r2 by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T00:04:31Z
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@TMakarios There is a lot of information on the extraordinary level of insecurity and lack of privacy in /e/OS from many other privacy and security expects. You can easily find a lot of this, including from the developer of DivestOS and many others. Due to the DivestOS developer accurately criticizing them, they engaged in horrible attacks on DivestOS which were a huge factor in it being discontinued. They also blamed the criticism from DivestOS and others on us and attacked us for it too.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPGW8TLxtkmpnYO by TMakarios@theres.life
2025-04-20T03:49:35Z
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@GrapheneOS Thanks for your reply. I've actually once seen a claim (with a ring of FUD about it) that the eylenburg comparison was largely a collaboration between you and DivestOS, "without significant input from other projects". Unfortunately, it wasn't really in a place where I could reasonably call [citation needed] on it, and it's probably very difficult for you or eylenburg to prove their independence. Hence my interest in links to code or other verifiable evidence of /e/OS's security flaws, which would make the question of independence less relevant.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPGpHKBHGi9n5OK by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:15:12Z
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@TMakarios That's clearly completely untrue. It's easy to see from the issue tracker that he's independent and not involved with the projects he makes comparisons about. You realize that his site has comparisons between all kinds of different things like messaging apps, right?https://eylenburg.github.io/im_comparison.htmMany people have submitted suggestions and bug reports about his site. He makes his own decisions about what to include and he verifies the information that's provided to him in the reports.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPH9U73RNipFDt2 by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:18:28Z
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@TMakarios It's completely verifiable that they do not have current privacy/security patches and do not maintain the standard privacy/security model or features. You could confirm it if you wanted. It's not clear what you want us to link you to. If you want to look at their repositories and confirm what we've said you can do that. Us linking you to it isn't going to give people the ability to confirm something themselves if they can't already do it without us linking to it.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPHQr4TKqahN5xg by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:20:23Z
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@TMakarios What we said is verifiable. It's your choice if you want to go do your own research and confirm it for yourself. You can quickly confirm they aren't on Android 15 QPR2 and that full patches would require being on Android 15 QPR2. The partial set of backported patches to older releases of AOSP is consistently shipped by them 1-2 months late. They do not provide the driver, firmware and other device-related patches consistently and don't ship them at all for many devices they support.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPKRJtCUPv0c0bQ by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:29:50Z
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@ro @Fairphone Their cloud services are lacking basic privacy/security best practices, end-to-end encryption, etc. They're encouraging people to migrate from using a quite private and secure iPhone to using a highly insecure and non-private device, and to go from services which mostly have end-to-end encryption as a default or an option to ones without it. It's not clear how they've pulled the wool over so many people's eyes, but that's what they are doing. /e/OS is not what it claims to be.
(DIR) Post #AtGyPR4XEJQIUN0PYm by TMakarios@theres.life
2025-04-20T03:52:51Z
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@GrapheneOS If they're playing DARVO on you, it could be a tough time for you. I don't have much experience of being a DARVO victim myself, but I'd like to encourage you to keep telling the truth. I sincerely believe that the truth wins in the end.
(DIR) Post #AtGzlsAvF44ss9Fvoe by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T05:53:28Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@TMakarios We are telling the truth and what we've said is verifiable if you care to do so. You don't need us to provide you with arbitrary links to verify what we said.
(DIR) Post #AtH2rvidHMyRSlbTxw by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T06:01:38Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@ant @NebulaTide They're not trolls. They're charlatans profiting from selling products unfit for purpose. They're causing substantial harm to both people they're misleading about what they provide and to projects like DivestOS and GrapheneOS they've been misleading people about and attacking. They aren't attacking us to troll us, they're attacking us because they think it's going to help them sell products. We're providing a demonstration that it will do the opposite.
(DIR) Post #AtH5ibGMGT23HAcZgu by s94@social.vivaldi.net
2025-04-20T06:46:40Z
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@GrapheneOS Is there a version of GrapheneOS for Fairphone 4 ?
(DIR) Post #AtH5icYpRHOvIkGq7U by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T06:53:41Z
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@s94 No. It doesn't meet even basic security standards and is far less secure than the average Android device. It's a device where we couldn't provide current privacy/security patches, working disk encryption for average users and the standard Android security features. It's not providing the bare minimum basics which any device should have and our standards are higher than those bare minimum basics. Our requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. They'd need to improve quite a lot.
(DIR) Post #AtHn0Q5Or1S5qyEsnw by faebudo@ioc.exchange
2025-04-20T06:02:16Z
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@GrapheneOS I think the problem is that I am only seeing your side as I am following you on mastodon and don't follow them anywhere. So my timeline is full of you saying that you are harassed but I am not aware of the harassment you are experiencing.I don't know if it would be a good idea to make public those false claims and attacks or if it would support the attackers, but as I said at the moment I only see you and never saw the attacks.Just as in a domestic violence cases where outsiders only see the victim snapping but not the attacks it would maybe good to have a diary collecting evidence on the attacks.
(DIR) Post #AtHn0RGmSC9LWYZUBM by keen@ieji.de
2025-04-20T08:43:33Z
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@faebudo @GrapheneOS It is the same for me. I only follow GrapheneOS. I see the Drama only from you in my time line. I am not able to check any claims. I trust the recommendations of @kuketzblogIn the end it boils down for me which smartphone I have. If I can put GrapheneOS on it, I do it, if not I choose the next best thing. On a Fairphone it would be this other OS. On my Poco F3 it was DivestOS. It's a shame thought, DivestOS is no more.This puplic fighting is tiresome.
(DIR) Post #AtHn0RpWN1wHGIpEKe by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-20T14:52:29Z
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@keen @faebudo @kuketzblog /e/OS is an extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS which should not be used anywhere. It does not provide people with High and Critical severity privacy/security patch backports without months of delays across devices and years of delays on many. It does not provide the current privacy/security patches because of lagging behind OS releases and not shipping driver/firmware patches even when available.DivestOS is gone largely because of the attacks from /e/OS.
(DIR) Post #AtJr5T55vyzWitg9Ro by svenjacobs@androiddev.social
2025-04-21T13:45:45Z
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@GrapheneOS @Fairphone I wish GrapheneOS would exist for Fairphone because from an ethical and environmental aspect the phones are very interesting.
(DIR) Post #AtJr5Tz6ZjnJWbsska by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-21T14:40:15Z
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@svenjacobs Fairphones do not meet our security requirements such as providing current privacy/security patches, a secure element, a recent SoC with current generation protections, etc. See https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices for the full list of requirements. There isn't comparable long term support as Pixels since they don't keep up with the OS updates. They provide the partial security backports instead and eventually move to new yearly releases, but with a huge delay which grows over time.
(DIR) Post #AtJr5V4oVzxGubYxHs by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-21T14:41:57Z
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@svenjacobs Aside from that, they're directly partnered with /e/OS and Murena which are misleading people about the privacy and security of their products to an extreme. Selling people an OS or device that's highly insecure and non-private while present it otherwise is wrong. Attacking projects like DivestOS and GrapheneOS to promote their products makes it much worse.
(DIR) Post #AtLFcLWVeB5mtgfjge by MrGR@mastodon.social
2025-04-22T06:54:11Z
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@GrapheneOS gibt es Quellennachweise dafür? Ich habe im Internet nur eure sehr schlimmen Vorwürfe gegen Gaël Duval und den angeblichen Lücken im Betriebssystem /e/OS gefunden. Von Duval habe ich keine Äußerungen zu GrapheneOS gefunden. Ich frage mich außerdem, warum /e/os überhaupt für euch eine Konkurrenz sein soll, denn euer Betriebssystem grapheneOS läuft ja nur auf Google Pixel Smartphones, nicht zum Beispiel auf Fairphones.
(DIR) Post #AtLFcLtuFBo84FcQ9g by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T06:59:34Z
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@MrGR We have 2 recent threads directly responding to several of his posts on Bluesky and X. He has posts attacking GrapheneOS and our team along with posts from his supporters which he liked posting harassment content. Look at his posts and replies across X, Bluesky and Mastodon. He's been attacking GrapheneOS for years including falsely claiming it isn't open source on X and making personal attacks on one of our developers there over a year ago./e/OS is not a competitor to GrapheneOS.
(DIR) Post #AtLFcN0K8oXFURd3nU by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T07:00:37Z
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@MrGR /e/OS is a non-hardened operating system which massively rolls back privacy and security compared to the starting point of the Android Open Source Project. You can see how vastly different it is from the high quality third party comparison at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm, which also compares lots of other types of software. There are other high quality sources of information on these topics from privacy and security researchers which confirm the egregious insecurity and non-privacy of /e/OS.
(DIR) Post #AtLFcNErGmA4DWQfS4 by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T07:02:59Z
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@MrGR You have the situation with hardware support backwards. Pixels are the only Android devices providing a high level of security comparable to iPhones. There are also no other even reasonably secure Android devices providing production quality support for using other operating systems. It is only Pixels which meet the very reasonable hardware requirements at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. Samsung provides the security features we need but doesn't support securely using another OS on their devices.
(DIR) Post #AtLFcNjLRQY1k4h0yG by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T07:05:46Z
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@MrGR Gaël Duval has falsely claimed GrapheneOS isn't open source and repeatedly engaged in personal attacks on one of our developers pushing fabricated stories about them and trying to assist in harassment baselessly portraying them as crazy and delusional. He has referenced and amplified harassment content towards the person he's targeting. This can be confirmed by looking at his posts on X, Bluesky and Mastodon which have years of attacks on GrapheneOS. It's ongoing for a long time.
(DIR) Post #AtLFcNv2jvuCKMAMCm by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T07:08:08Z
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@MrGR /e/OS is the direct opposite of GrapheneOS when it comes to privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project which is the starting point for both, although /e/OS is derived from it through forking LineageOS. We do not consider it a competitor to GrapheneOS. We did not post about /e/OS and Murena on our feed until we felt it necessary to respond to them misleading people about GrapheneOS and attacking our team. If they were not doing that, we wouldn't be responding.
(DIR) Post #AtLxY3BoGY8KrPkgSG by NebulaTide@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2025-04-19T21:30:38Z
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@GrapheneOS It’s a shame. But for me GrapheneOS is the only OS I would trust on smartphone. And everyone who has been diving a little deeper into the topic should know that there are no real other options that can be compared regarding privacy and security.
(DIR) Post #AtLxY49Mh7lvq7cFHc by luciomarinelli@poliversity.it
2025-04-20T07:30:58Z
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@NebulaTide @GrapheneOS @gael @murena de-googled OSes devoted to #freedom #privacy and #security should join forces instead of fighting each other! #floss
(DIR) Post #AtLxY50XVQJ4V2UiAK by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2025-04-22T07:53:45.520255Z
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@luciomarinelli A few years ago exactly this kind of good-will suggestion I made on GrapheneOS resulted in an avalanche of insults and accusations poured on me from their top architect Daniel Micay 😄 He officially stepped down in 2023 but his aggressive and paranoid style can’t be mistaken for anything else so I suspect he’s still employed in the role of the project’s resident troll online 😉 I’ve been there myself, so I can only advise any accusations written from the name of GrapheneOS to be taken with a grain of salt.@NebulaTide @GrapheneOS @gael @murena
(DIR) Post #AtM91KJMmk23rBRuD2 by xdydx@mastodon.social
2025-04-19T21:37:50Z
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@GrapheneOS I believe you, but I you have receipts..
(DIR) Post #AtM91L5vsAseHoAguO by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T15:43:55Z
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@xdydx See our 2 previous threads here linking to various examples and look through their posts from their X, Bluesky and Mastodon accounts. We are not going to amplify the cases of them personally targeted one of our developers and claiming they're delusional, paranoid, crazy, etc. along with false claims about what they've said and done. There are also numerous examples of people supporting them doing that in reply to our thread here along with them making likes and replies supporting it.
(DIR) Post #AtM91LjdUYdiGwkOnI by GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
2025-04-22T15:45:20Z
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@xdydx They have repeatedly liked and amplified harassment content including from a Kiwi Farms user. Look through their posts & replies on those 3 platforms. They made public posts over a year ago attacking us on X including falsely claiming GrapheneOS isn't open source, pushing personal attacks and libel towards the individual they're repeatedly targeting and very wrongly treating as if they're the only person involved in the GrapheneOS project, etc.