Post At6X0V8FlzVaxta2AS by Landa@graz.social
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(DIR) Post #At5ZOSrJsifNcDFoDw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T17:38:25Z
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I've been reading all of Williams Gibson's novels back to back and the thing that surprises me the most is that this guy... for all of the moodiness and cyberpunkery loves a happy ending. A happy ending for everyone. In the strict rules of drama this should make the novels comedies. But I don't think that quite fits. Normally something big and unprocessed happens at the end, but bad guys generally get theirs, and the good guys, and the weird guys are alright, not perfect but OK. 1/
(DIR) Post #At5ZWUFcaePkFVRjbU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T17:39:51Z
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Doing that does make it feel like the story is over. That's important. Can't just... trail off. But endings are hard. Among the sci-fi and cyber punk... who does endings well do you think?2/2
(DIR) Post #At5ZbQZNhk2YHP2pt2 by ohmu@social.seattle.wa.us
2025-04-14T17:40:43Z
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@futurebird I think he's mentioned that in interviews.
(DIR) Post #At5ZfbZKketZYG0xGq by ohmu@social.seattle.wa.us
2025-04-14T17:41:28Z
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@futurebird Omg that's easy: NK Jemisin.
(DIR) Post #At5Zghs8nkLNOHKw1g by F100@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T17:41:32Z
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@futurebird Philip K Dick’s Ubik is my favorite ending.
(DIR) Post #At5ZiTbGpsD1hoI10C by LinuxAndYarn@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T17:41:59Z
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@futurebird "The good ended happily, and the bad unhappily. That is what fiction means." --- Ms. Prism, "The Importance of Being Ernest" by Oscar Wilde
(DIR) Post #At5aIIbPCczq1OQz44 by jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org
2025-04-14T17:48:27Z
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@futurebird I tend to see his endings a bit differently. They conclude the story satisfactorily, but it's an "incremental happiness:" the world at large, as it was presented at the beginning of the book, rarely changes for the better. It just changes, like the AIs which become "Loas" in the other Sprawl books, and Case who we learn (in Mona Lisa Overdrive) is now happily married-with-children.
(DIR) Post #At5aOHlrCsnZBFB4Ma by hal_pomeranz@infosec.exchange
2025-04-14T17:49:33Z
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@futurebird The fact that Frank Herbert was able to wrap up all the threads in “Dune” and have a succinct ending was master-class.
(DIR) Post #At5aUDYnm50xrJtq6a by Bishopjoey@writing.exchange
2025-04-14T17:50:36Z
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@futurebird Arkady Martine. The ending of A Memory Called Empire is perfect.
(DIR) Post #At5adD8WifYD9PtjcW by ztephen@glasgow.social
2025-04-14T17:52:10Z
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@futurebird Stan Robinson… particularly the end of the Mars Trilogy, but also Aurora. Oh and Galileo’s Dream. And oh dear, apparently all of them.
(DIR) Post #At5afow39hpOxdJ3fE by jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org
2025-04-14T17:51:26Z
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@futurebird A darker example: in a subsequent book we learn one of the previous main characters becomes extremely cautious (borderline paranoid) after their experience (Cayce IIRC) and the people they met.However I think in his first trilogies Gibson had a rather optimistic view of technology but a pessimistic opinion of how society was using it. In his last book series, I'm not so sure for the "technology" part anymore.
(DIR) Post #At5aiMQzZsrjR3zUBs by jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org
2025-04-14T17:53:08Z
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@futurebird I know a lot of people dislike Neal Stephenson's endings as they tend to be rather abrupt. He was asked about this a long time ago in a Slashdot interview, and basically said he ended his books exactly as intended and liked it that way. 😬
(DIR) Post #At5aub5ytU2kNgzvJg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T17:55:25Z
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@jenesuispasgoth I always feel like he's trying to get me to join a church or donate to his Kickstarter for some dubious self improvement method about 1/2 through all of his books... which is why I've not finished reading any of them. He can write a good hook, though. I gets me invested then starts getting on my nerves more and more until I just put the book down.
(DIR) Post #At5b7DaVbd75EpILT6 by jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org
2025-04-14T17:57:41Z
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@futurebird I've mostly read his earlier books (Snow Crash, Diamond Age, etc.). I did not get the feeling you got at all, that's very interesting.
(DIR) Post #At5bD2fd6qi37FT24O by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T17:58:45Z
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@jenesuispasgoth Snow Crash almost feels like a different author I keep forgetting he wrote it because I LIKE that one. I'm being very fair to the poor guy aren't I?
(DIR) Post #At5bI24SlXAyhkSjB2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T17:59:38Z
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@silverfish @jenesuispasgoth Yeah I added his name to the post because of that.
(DIR) Post #At5bS6Y8y7ghUV9F4a by jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org
2025-04-14T18:01:27Z
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@futurebird hehehe. I read SC twice, and did the same for Cryptonomicon. In both cases, the ending left me saying "That's it?!" aloud, even the second time. :)
(DIR) Post #At5bUhC3hOgXid3NVA by troublewithwords@wandering.shop
2025-04-14T18:01:50Z
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@futurebird I thought the ending to The Expanse books (which was kind of spread over the last few of the 9 books) was nicely done. Some of it was predictable from early on, but there are some excellent unexpected bits. John Scalzi's Redshirts ends fine, but the codas made the light story that went before it hit so hard. I can't think of anything else like it.
(DIR) Post #At5bc8nZSjbrMT9LTU by GoblinQuester@dice.camp
2025-04-14T18:03:14Z
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@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird I remember like Snow Crash … the next time he passed my awareness was … Diamond Age which I disliked intensely and after that I don’t touch his books with a ten foot pole.
(DIR) Post #At5bo9e68dhLSpRndo by pencilears@mastodon.eternalaugust.com
2025-04-14T18:05:22Z
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@futurebird she mostly did fantasy, by Dianna Wynne Jones did fantastic endings, I always feel like she ties every loose thread up in a nice little bow.
(DIR) Post #At5caUmCsTwutrI5rs by sqx@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T18:14:10Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth I really liked Seveneves, and it even ends kinda nice.
(DIR) Post #At5darUAXuDzHjan7w by jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org
2025-04-14T18:08:48Z
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@GoblinQuester I need to re-read Diamond Age, but I really liked it at the time. I know at the time my grasp of English was not as good as now, so there was definitely some misinterpretations on my part. I re-read the beginning a few years ago, and still liked it, but got distracted and never finished again. I understand his books are not for everyone though, but as @futurebird said, the style has changed a lot since, so maybe you'll like his other books better. 😬
(DIR) Post #At5dasR117IQEF7mqm by GoblinQuester@dice.camp
2025-04-14T18:13:42Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth I remember I found the beginning interesting but the story disjointed and then an completely unnecessary rape scene (that felt tucked on just to be edgy) completely dissociated me from the book.
(DIR) Post #At5datd6ZeYpw1mxKi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T18:24:54Z
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@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth There was a scene in Seveneves where he was describing how this sexy Russian engineer lady was sleeping in a transparent bubble mostly naked, and on the surface it was supposed to be something about "how fragile is humankind in the cold of space?" but it felt more like soft core porn... like leering... but in a way that was trying to excuse itself and pretend not to be... leering. Like I don't have a problem? just leer and be honest about it. Creeped me out.
(DIR) Post #At5dh4AeION2MgQ8eW by ehproque@neopaquita.es
2025-04-14T18:26:33Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth Anathem is really good, the setting doesn't really allow for that kind of thing and a lot of importance is given to the study of mathematics. I think you may enjoy that one (my favourite)
(DIR) Post #At5dlnjsodeMqo9uka by GoblinQuester@dice.camp
2025-04-14T18:27:25Z
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@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird Yeah, there is so many authors out there that I could throw my money at, instead of another creepy dude. There is a reason my preference these days is for woman authors.
(DIR) Post #At5dzeApB10dEpMXrc by gbargoud@masto.nyc
2025-04-14T18:29:55Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth Zodiac's an interesting one. It's short so it doesn't have as much room to escalate as some of his other books but still manages to do a lot of that. The eco terrorism storyline has also often been topical since he wrote it.
(DIR) Post #At5eL7trqitdVxfoMS by lffontenelle@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T18:33:47Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth This reminds me of @matociquala on "author points". Clearly, Stephenson didn't get that many author points in the beginning 😂 https://buttondown.com/matociquala/archive/author-points/
(DIR) Post #At5eM2VNOSAr4VeYbI by ohmu@social.seattle.wa.us
2025-04-14T18:28:43Z
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@futurebird That's spot on!I never made that connection. And I think it's fair to say now he was doing that in every book.
(DIR) Post #At5eM3h6yJ9glC9RWy by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T18:33:58Z
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@ohmu I wonder if all books do that to some degree, but it's just that what Stephenson wants to say is so tiresome it stands out?hmm
(DIR) Post #At5efVuGIuG5lDZySm by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T18:37:30Z
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@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth I could have tolerated it from Niven since I don't really expect him to have any self control that way. But also Niven would have never made it so pretentious when it was just ... some guys sexy notion.
(DIR) Post #At5fCa6thARKM3G0lk by GoblinQuester@dice.camp
2025-04-14T18:43:28Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth I only remember reading one book of Niven - Footfall - found it having interesting ideas but not a fantastic execution. But it was translated and that can always be an issue. Anyway, the only sex related thing I recall from that one is when the aliens try to understand a pornography … which back then I thought was funny, but now dismiss as crude and a stupid joke.
(DIR) Post #At5fHYnQ0bSdj7WJo8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T18:44:23Z
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@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth He could be very crude, but also funny. And now a lot of if it just very dated.
(DIR) Post #At5fXXFJXW11YKBZjc by smellsofbikes@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T18:46:12Z
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@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird he wasted all his ending skills on his first, pretty terrible, book, and hasn't ever recovered. Good midgame though.
(DIR) Post #At5fXYKfV5tOvDhMie by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T18:47:15Z
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@smellsofbikes @jenesuispasgoth I am terrified to think that "ending making skill" might be a finite resource... I really hope it won't work that way.
(DIR) Post #At5favBL0Fc4enwMgy by GoblinQuester@dice.camp
2025-04-14T18:47:52Z
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@jenesuispasgoth @futurebird yes, when I go back and read stuff from that millennia 😜 I often have to set my mind to read it in the context of that time. So much has happened since then. I found reading Ursula Le Guins complete Earthsea with her comments very interesting as it spans such a long time frame.
(DIR) Post #At5jeKhWylt4UNsfOC by wtrmt@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T19:33:17Z
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@futurebird @GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth The future is not what it used to be.— Disputed authorship, definitely not mine
(DIR) Post #At5mkYSN37EAkcRqOO by econads@mendeddrum.org
2025-04-14T20:07:57Z
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@futurebirdLike the decontamination scenes in (Star Trek) Enterprise. It feels a bit insulting really. We assume you're too shy to watch porn so you will need an excuse to watch something you'll be titillated by. Or what? It feels a bit like tabloid "isn't it disgusting how sexy this is, here's some pictures so you can see for yourself just how outrageous and disgusting this actresses' bikini shots are" @GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth
(DIR) Post #At5mq8sv2O3DB9WvoG by econads@mendeddrum.org
2025-04-14T20:09:01Z
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@futurebirdTo be fair, crudity can be very funny. Willy! See? @GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth
(DIR) Post #At5n2EJ2hszRT4Vs12 by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-04-14T20:11:14Z
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@futurebird when I was young I really liked CJ Cherryh's endings, because for me, they felt like a nice compromise between resolving enough things to make it feel like a story, but leaving enough things unresolved as to feel realistic; to me, in the real world, hardly anything is ever resolved the way it is in fiction. I felt most other writers resolved so many things so neatly as to seem too unreal. Now I'm not sure.
(DIR) Post #At5noC8w3I0Iewen9k by Tak@glitch.taks.garden
2025-04-14T20:19:49Z
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@futurebird you know I've got to go with Tchaikovsky, but +1 for Iain M. Banks as well, and my new bestie Emma Newman
(DIR) Post #At5oQSFgbknxcm3fzk by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
2025-04-14T20:26:45Z
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@futurebird @GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth isn't this the entirety of what Seveneves was? Showcasing fictional technology (a la Jules Verne) with a dash of being a leering creep, and zero humanity / zero actual plot besides what was needed to showcase the technology?
(DIR) Post #At5oYLDSeQa27TmIuu by smellsofbikes@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T20:28:14Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth you might also have a lot more of it to start with.
(DIR) Post #At5u86GsC1ndxrFDw8 by faassen@fosstodon.org
2025-04-14T21:30:43Z
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@futurebird@GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth When I reread Ringworld some years ago I realized how much straight guy's fantasy was in there. But yeah little pretense either
(DIR) Post #At5ubg24JRgjH2QIU4 by clew@ecoevo.social
2025-04-14T21:35:59Z
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Shoutout to Wilhelmina Baird's cyberpunk/space opera series starting with _Crashcourse_; I think the endings in the first three novels are a good balance of personal crises and Big Plot Events. The third one ends with a This Changes Everything.... And then the *fourth* novel is enough later that _everything has changed_. Personal actions, the concerns of Plot, and even the prose style got wilder with it. Love it! Wish there was an audiobook version. https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/28660339@futurebird
(DIR) Post #At5un4jknm7p4yI9aq by clew@ecoevo.social
2025-04-14T21:38:03Z
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I think all of Seveneves is an excuse for sexy racism, and an excuse for ignoring (climate) disaster because we might get sexy racism out of it. Really creeps me out one end to the other.@futurebird @GoblinQuester @jenesuispasgoth
(DIR) Post #At5xOIZ4YN1saWAljk by Kalshann@mastodon.social
2025-04-14T22:07:16Z
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@futurebird I've always thought his endings are the most punk part of his cyberpunk.
(DIR) Post #At5yUj9ai0lMkBspay by misterscience@mastodon.world
2025-04-14T22:19:38Z
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@futurebird @cstross generally writes a pretty solid ending
(DIR) Post #At6QAixUWRLh40TReC by guyjantic@mstdn.social
2025-04-15T03:29:42Z
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@futurebird @jenesuispasgoth omg I could go on about Stephenson. Your take and beyond
(DIR) Post #At6X0V8FlzVaxta2AS by Landa@graz.social
2025-04-15T04:46:19Z
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@futurebird He did run a Kickstarter years ago that ended…less than satisfactory for those that participated. Not for self improvement methods though.@jenesuispasgoth
(DIR) Post #At6kzCOVLxu9v3SGHo by rayhindle@mastodon.social
2025-04-15T07:22:59Z
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@futurebird How about Harry Harrison in “At Last, A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah,” or for hard SF Joe Haldeman.
(DIR) Post #At7ocyTwzXxFNKcVP6 by gabbywheels@toad.social
2025-04-15T19:38:28Z
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@futurebird Yeah, I agree. But the way we can conceive of Peter Thiel's sweaty unhealthiness as a product of a malfunction at Chibi City... that's Gibson. Over and over again.