Post AsmFJy5ceKMjwPHfUG by hazelnot@sunbeam.city
(DIR) More posts by hazelnot@sunbeam.city
(DIR) Post #AsmAAqDe2kHv9arh0S by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T08:56:18Z
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Venus is pretty big and has an atmosphere, really too much atmosphere. What about we two Venus out from the sun a bit and let it cool down so we have another nice world. There is lots of room in the window of Earth's orbit. Wouldn't that be easier than trying to terraform Mars which is too small, too cold, and has no geology?Why not have another viable planet that wasn't so hecking far away?TOW VENUS NOW
(DIR) Post #AsmAOdDXBFE2sqOB2O by benni@social.tchncs.de
2025-04-05T08:58:45Z
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@futurebird i think living in a flying city in venus atmosphere would be nice. Imagine the sight!
(DIR) Post #AsmAVMLmI2asbAS9HU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:00:00Z
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I wonder how the energy required compares:1. Energy required to tow Venus out to an earth-like orbit2. Energy required to restart Mars geology for a bit. (you know it won't last)I suspect plan 1 is much easier. Which is not to say easy, but just more viable.
(DIR) Post #AsmAmIiR3YbqFV84NE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:03:05Z
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Mars and Venus will NEVER be right in their current orbits. Terraforming is just a stop-gap, expensive without giving you much sustainable habitability for all that work. Tow the planet, let the sun and the cold of space do the work.Mars is tiny, Venus is also a little small, but better than Mars. So, tow venus because it's the better one.
(DIR) Post #AsmB77Ts1T33UBFAPI by Scmbradley@mathstodon.xyz
2025-04-05T09:06:47Z
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@futurebird "how far would you have to tow Venus out to get a global mean temperature of 20 Celsius?" is actually a pretty good physics/maths question. Like, you could use a simple energy balance model, with a given constant for the effect of the atmosphere, and then solve for varying the energy input (which is a function of distance, effectively).
(DIR) Post #AsmBHbGu7EtYmCAzRI by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
2025-04-05T09:08:38Z
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@futurebird I suspect energy requirements for plan 1 are many orders of magnitude higher than for plan 2? And also it has a chance of wreaking havoc on earth's orbit. Imagine, you did all that hard job of towing Venus to earth-like orbit, only for earth to jump in Jupiter's embrace and becoming yet another of his satellites
(DIR) Post #AsmBazL2rOPmv7MGm0 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:12:14Z
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@IngaLovinde Venus has no real impact on Earth where it is and it could be moved without having an impact on Earth I think. And Jupiter is really far away, the danger would be just messing up the Earth's orbit a bit. But if we have the tech to tow Venus we probably invented it to tow Earth first. I would imagine you'd give Venus a satellite and then use the satellite to gently move it. With Earth we could nudge the orbit by nudging the moon.
(DIR) Post #AsmBeEG1qcpi3lYbMO by nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social
2025-04-05T09:12:48Z
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@futurebird Isn't Venus already trapped in a loop now? Even if you towed it you would still have to terraform to break the loop.
(DIR) Post #AsmBsSjcomZn0yBgwa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:15:23Z
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@remote_orb Slamming planets together is probably the only way to "restart geology" that I can think of. Very destructive and I think we'd have a big problem with meteors on Earth from this project. Very messy. But ... can you imagine watching that happen? Sign me up for that!
(DIR) Post #AsmBvIfogO6cg7l8RU by mmby@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:15:46Z
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@futurebird you'd have to brake the entire mass of Venus into a higher orbit vs maintaining a planetary magnetic field etc.maybe one can use Venus' atmosphere to do the braking even
(DIR) Post #AsmBxLo20V8cyNZzNY by heavyimage@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:15:47Z
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@tshirtman @IngaLovinde @futurebird I think we should be sure there’s nothing living on Venus that would object to the relocation. If it’s cool with them I’m all in.
(DIR) Post #AsmC2J1nlLZDnzNoxs by faassen@fosstodon.org
2025-04-05T09:17:09Z
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@futurebirdAlexander Abian was famous on usenet for saying all kinds of wondrous stuff, including:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_AbianTIME-SPACE HAS INERTIA. EQUIVALENCE OF TIME-SPACE AND MASS1/T+1/log M =1(ABIAN) ALTER EARTH'S ORBIT AND TILT - STOP EPIDEMICS OF CANCER, CHOLERA, AIDS, ETC. VENUS MUST BE GIVEN A NEAR EARTH-LIKE ORBIT TO BECOME A BORN AGAIN EARTHHe also wanted to blow up the moon
(DIR) Post #AsmC5hMziVIWAWui9Y by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:17:47Z
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@heavyimage @tshirtman @IngaLovinde To investigate the project we'd need to get to know Venus much better. Right now the possibility of life there looks ... grim. Very grim. If there is life it would have radically different chemistry and I increasingly think that life with radically different chemistry isn't likely.
(DIR) Post #AsmCUKBn2UeTVyPpBo by Cheeseness@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:22:12Z
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@futurebird AFIK, Venus doesn't have a useful magnetosphere, so step 1 would probably implicitly need step 2 anyway.What kind of approach do you imagine for towing a planet? I can imagine throwing massive objects on close approaches repeatedly to affect its orbits, which is a kind of pulling, I guess!
(DIR) Post #AsmCaNLgCmNh3EvWAS by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2025-04-05T09:23:15Z
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@futurebird Some people just want to see the world(s) burn...@remote_orb
(DIR) Post #AsmCb0QeuCXMFyYXqK by heavyimage@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:23:17Z
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@futurebird @tshirtman @IngaLovinde I propose we wait for these missions and see what they find
(DIR) Post #AsmCcZIWkWfUgqUv8S by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:23:44Z
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@Cheeseness I was thinking giving it an artificial satellite if large mass like a moon. But you can drive the satellite, each time it orbits it pushes and pulls a little scooches things over at a very slow pace,
(DIR) Post #AsmCdVpr6ln4F0XM8W by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
2025-04-05T09:23:52Z
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@futurebird it does have impact, in terms that the orbits in the inner solar system have stabilized over billions of years at where they are. What happens when you disrupt the balance so significantly? Who knows!
(DIR) Post #AsmCgue7Jqm03hfSdM by electric_gumball@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:24:29Z
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@futurebird Well, you wouldn't really have to tow it, too much rope, too hard to hitch it up.All you'd really need is to accelerate it up to a higher orbit.Maybe crash some things we don't really need into it at really high speed?
(DIR) Post #AsmCwfOzlOC3Pj6gCm by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:27:21Z
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@passenger I wonder if this is a general limit. Building habitats (with spin gravity) might always be much more efficient than trying to engineer new worlds with mass-based gravity. And this is assuming gravity is something we really like and aren't willing to adapt to live without. There are many challenges to living without gravity and geology... but are they greater than the challenges of making rocky worlds?(I think a rocky world is less delicate, more likely to endure...)
(DIR) Post #AsmCyDc63HiNo9yUxE by TheBreadmonkey@beige.party
2025-04-05T09:27:38Z
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@futurebird TVN
(DIR) Post #AsmD1fTeuY7X5xfmVs by Cheeseness@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:28:06Z
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@futurebird Ah yes, I see. Powering that would be tricky - I spotted others had done a traditional rocket fuel calculation, and definitely not feasible with that kind of tech! I'd imagine that throwing oort cloud objects in on close approaches would probably be more doable.
(DIR) Post #AsmD65BjGEaHzhOKbg by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
2025-04-05T09:29:01Z
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@futurebird the moon/earth system will still not be nudged unless you manage to expel or add a significant amount of mass from/to it, or unless you transfer the kinetic energy/moment/whatever to/from something else? Bombarding moon by a large number of bodies from our solar system, until the moon is destroyed, will probably change Earth's orbit a bit (maybe by 1% of the distance from Earth outfit to Venus orbit)...
(DIR) Post #AsmDEeFemQEl3eJSwy by mina@berlin.social
2025-04-05T09:30:05Z
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@futurebird Moving the mass of Venus against the gravitational pull of the Sun to a higher orbit would require a hell of energy. The main problem with terraforming Mars would be to protect it against solar winds. Perhaps by installing a magnetic grid on the surface?
(DIR) Post #AsmDJcoNYr1I2WvXpg by BradRubenstein@infosec.exchange
2025-04-05T09:31:28Z
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Things are gonna break.@futurebird @IngaLovinde
(DIR) Post #AsmDVxRof8WNW5FpNA by jupiter@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-04-05T09:33:41Z
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@futurebird I don't think 1 is easier. Not by a long shot.Also, Venus doesn't just need to "cool off" for a bit. She needs a whole atmosphere makeover.Her atmosphere has a mass of roughly 93 times the mass of the Earth's total atmosphere.I'd rather dump 200 million cubic kilometers of water from Europa or Ganymede on Mars. (incidentally what the Martians try to do in my game, already an absurd proposition in and of itself)
(DIR) Post #AsmENL0HoRFBvDpa0O by asthargf@retro.pizza
2025-04-05T09:43:22Z
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@futurebird @IngaLovinde It would be easier with a TARDIS. But! Once you tow it into Earth's orbit we only need to hope that there isn't already Mondas there with some cybermen.#DoctorWhoReference
(DIR) Post #AsmERbxygfr7gnmyhM by WTL@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T09:44:05Z
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@futurebird 🤔 Rather that trying to tow Venus, I’d try building a sun shade in orbit to help get temperatures to a reasonable range. Then… figure out how to terraform it.
(DIR) Post #AsmFFXqwFtoXPWJ4Yi by gdupont@framapiaf.org
2025-04-05T09:53:03Z
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@futurebirdI understoood Venus is more or less already on an "habitable" orbit, the problem is its atmosphere. So rather than moving it, it might cheaper to engineer its atmosphere.
(DIR) Post #AsmFJy5ceKMjwPHfUG by hazelnot@sunbeam.city
2025-04-05T09:40:12Z
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@faassen @futurebird noooo don't blow up the moon she's pretty and a lesbian 😭
(DIR) Post #AsmFJyufaXCOUjAR3Q by faassen@fosstodon.org
2025-04-05T09:45:34Z
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@hazelnot@futurebirdTo quote Abian:RADICAL CHANGE IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. THE MOST PRACTICALTHE MOST EFFECTIVE THE MOST URGENT RADICAL CHANGE ISTO BLOW UP THE MOON TO SMITHEREENS AND GET RID OFITS EVIL PRESENCE ONCE AND FOR ALL!I myself do not support this course of action.
(DIR) Post #AsmFJzZn7e5mYGPH9M by hazelnot@sunbeam.city
2025-04-05T09:52:38Z
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@faassen @futurebird that's homophobic 😤
(DIR) Post #AsmFK0fr2aXJxMFdEu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T09:53:53Z
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@hazelnot @faassen So now terraforming is conversion therapy? There might be some truth in that if the planet is alive. But not all planets are alive IMO.
(DIR) Post #AsmFO8fLGmElttypyy by hazelnot@sunbeam.city
2025-04-05T09:54:42Z
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@futurebird @faassen oh no it's just the moon who's a lesbian
(DIR) Post #AsmGrKB1ePUjxBHShU by Pashhur@mathstodon.xyz
2025-04-05T10:11:09Z
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@futurebird a back of the envelope calculation says about 1e33 joules. in rocket fuel energy density it's more than the mass of the earth. in solar energy it's about 1e22 m^2*year
(DIR) Post #AsmHuJCPqFZHkDuxjU by Kierkegaanks@beige.party
2025-04-05T10:22:55Z
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@futurebird and extract co2 from it’s atmosphere to build a dry ice statue of elon musk the size of pluto
(DIR) Post #AsmInkG8vzkrb55yDY by space_cadet@aus.social
2025-04-05T10:32:55Z
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@futurebird Bring it really close. Earth-Venus-Moon should be a Three Body Problem.
(DIR) Post #AsmKdhiniNZsjrq7Fo by bit@ohai.social
2025-04-05T10:53:29Z
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@futurebird We can just ask Elon Musk to use the Telsa Roadster he already has in orbit to help towing Venus.
(DIR) Post #AsmKjVjHDNrdHapZya by rayhindle@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T10:54:36Z
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@futurebird Why not a Ring World or a Dyson Sphere? Or a disc world, then you wouldn't have to go down tote basement to see the stars!
(DIR) Post #AsmLlCX5erXiHMV6jw by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-04-05T11:06:06Z
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@futurebird I think it has been argued the extreme heat of Venus has baked all the water out of the crust, and all that water rose to the top of the atmosphere (since water is lighter than most of the other atmospheric gasses of Venus), where radiation cracked the water molecules into in hydrogen and oxygen, and the hydrogen was lost because hydrogen atoms are so light that at the temperatures involved, they have would have much greater velocity than the escape velocity of Venus.
(DIR) Post #AsmLqJ052UUfmmUinY by Krail@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T11:06:34Z
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@futurebird Kurzkesagt did a really good video about how terraforming Venus might be easier than Mars, while also providing vital material to making Mars more habitable. https://youtu.be/G-WO-z-QuWI?si=kGGKc6NuANlvwO_b
(DIR) Post #AsmLxNF7fCmIyGtv3Q by noodle@aus.social
2025-04-05T11:08:16Z
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@futurebird Mars is too tiny to be worth terraforming. Instead, and equally plausible, crash Mars into Venus (gently) to fix the orbit and atmosphere of both.
(DIR) Post #AsmSQoSU9h4jV9ZWqG by enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T12:20:50Z
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@futurebird I dunno. Building a magnetic shield at the first Martian-Solar L1 Lagrangian point would resolve the issue of Mars not having enough of a magnetosphere due to its tiny iron core. It would also probably require towing a small silicaceous asteroid to that point, and then using the asteroid as a source of raw materials to build all the necessary components.
(DIR) Post #AsmXNMGb0yb6y6BP0K by MichaelPorter@ottawa.place
2025-04-05T13:16:14Z
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@futurebird @remote_orb “If you were late to the Late Bombardment, have we got a show for you!”
(DIR) Post #AsmXULjdOE6fLY6Csi by DrorBedrack@mastodon.social
2025-04-05T13:17:31Z
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@futurebird imagine what it will do to the real-estate market!
(DIR) Post #AsmYONWdv5u97Gjswa by michael_w_busch@mastodon.online
2025-04-05T13:27:37Z
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@futurebird I regret to report that with a 90-bar atmosphere of carbon dioxide; Venus would remain uninhabitable even at 1 au from the Sun - apart from very high up in the atmosphere.All of the logistics of moving planets around aside.
(DIR) Post #Asmftf5pLzQoG03oFk by redpy5@sunbeam.city
2025-04-05T14:51:42Z
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@futurebird If I touch a single parameter regarding a planet's properties in simulator games like Universe Sandbox and the planets and moons go pinging off in all directions. Idk how realistic that is, but something tells me humans haven't quite figured out how orbits work. I understand it has something to do with a difficulty in calculating the physics between 3 or more bodies and there not being general solutions we can work out for all the different configurations. And maybe that has more to do with computers and on paper we are able to simulate things better 🤷🏻♀️I obviously don't fully understand astronomy or physics, I just know the things I've seen in video games that are supposed to simulate these things to a degree and what I've looked up regarding it. And that's planets flinging themselves out of the solar system.
(DIR) Post #Asmnq53dfu4ZGBq9T6 by psentee@stolat.town
2025-04-05T16:20:43Z
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@futurebird is that how the aliens in Three Body Problem got into their predicament?
(DIR) Post #Asmwq72VCqgozfOm6S by gim@lou.lt
2025-04-05T18:01:32Z
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@futurebird tbh, although unlikely, that still sounds like a better idea, than trying to colonize the red planet. What would you do with sulfuric acid clouds though?(afaik there'd be much more problems to consider - like winds and temp, I'm simply curious)
(DIR) Post #AsncAjE32KpTL2kRRw by glasspusher@beige.party
2025-04-06T01:44:43Z
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@futurebird really need @LRRRonEarth to weigh in on this
(DIR) Post #AsncJtuChM2t4Gq812 by glasspusher@beige.party
2025-04-06T01:46:22Z
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@futurebird Venus is damn close to earths twin in size- give it a chance!
(DIR) Post #AsndLr2oPHrgjAMUPg by Okanogen@mastodon.social
2025-04-06T01:57:54Z
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@futurebird Or maybe find a way to remove or bind its greenhouse gases methane and CO2?
(DIR) Post #Asnt0VOZIjAellNcP2 by jeffc@mastodon.online
2025-04-06T04:53:20Z
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@futurebird @IngaLovinde If we have enough technology to move planets, maybe we should consider a different option: instead of changing Venus to fit us, change ourselves to fit Venus. I don't know what that would look like, but it seems like it'd be much more energy efficient.
(DIR) Post #AsoBlB0EjfwoJCP3WS by Landa@graz.social
2025-04-06T08:23:27Z
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@futurebird if you’ve got time, put a bunch of asteroids in orbits that steal momentum from Mars and give it to Venus. Will take longer than more drastic measures but is probably easier. Also, the larger asteroids might make nice moons and/or waystations for ships later. @Cheeseness
(DIR) Post #AsopdkS33EmG6HQNbk by johnhattan@dobbs.town
2025-04-06T15:50:23Z
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@rochelimit @TomSwirly @resuna @passenger @futurebird not a 1019 kg asteroid. A 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg asteroid. Teensy difference.
(DIR) Post #AspD0FTefyoJdrsFwu by Phosphenes@mastodon.social
2025-04-06T20:12:04Z
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@futurebird This is an Isaac Arthur question.
(DIR) Post #AspEFXLsbJuhNR5i7s by AstroHyde@mastodon.social
2025-04-06T20:26:02Z
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@futurebird I've always been a fan of the 'disperse the atmosphere of Venus' ideas. We've already shown we can destroy an ozone layer without too much trouble, the chemical reactions needed to get the sun to remove Venus' atmosphere are really interesting. Although, careful positioning to create a Venus-Mars binary out at Mars' orbit does sound pretty fun, you could also just put your Venus-Mars in the nemesis position. Earth orbit, opposite side of the sun 🌞
(DIR) Post #AsqHZI2xi05uimJTTU by TomSwirly@toot.community
2025-04-07T08:37:59Z
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@johnhattan @rochelimit @resuna @passenger @futurebird When ever you see some utterly wrong four digit number that starts with 10, it's probably an exponential that went wrong. The funny part is that I read that 1019 as 10^19 and didn't even understand what you meant until I went back to it!