Post ArJvgGSNCmgOpStH4S by DiogoConstantino@masto.pt
(DIR) More posts by DiogoConstantino@masto.pt
(DIR) Post #ArHMpGm3Vc0rhxjewi by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-19T14:29:51.587923Z
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@cas Well "Linux Mobile" is a completely broken brand anyway since Android is Linux, and adding "real" doesn't makes it any less nonsense.Mainline and FLOSS would make more sense to insist on, after all there could be something like PostmarketOS but BSD-based instead that it wouldn't change things much.
(DIR) Post #ArHOqSEQax9tRPhPAO by fossdd@chaos.social
2025-02-19T14:35:08Z
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@lanodan @cas well I would argue that Android's kernel cant be called Linux anymore since adding 1M+ lines of patches kinda makes it more like a Linux-similar kernel
(DIR) Post #ArHOqTddMiunnsV35s by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-19T14:52:27.520126Z
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@fossdd @cas Yeah, although that ball is more in Linus Torvalds' hands since he own the trademark than in ours.Which reminds me that I wish all linux embedded projects in general (so like OpenWRT too) would prominently tell if the supported kernel is mainline linux, soft linux fork or a hard linux fork.
(DIR) Post #ArHPi1cLlIZeXJQu1Y by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-19T15:02:09.559145Z
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@tusooa @cas I think GNU/Linux is even worse, glibc/coreutils/… vs. musl/busybox/… vs. bionic/toybox/… really doesn't matters on mobile where what you're going to use daily is nearly exclusively graphical.
(DIR) Post #ArHPvZ7YVb3SD3UAe8 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-19T15:04:37.615779Z
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@tusooa @cas In fact if AOSP wasn't so horrible I'd probably have done the prank of swapping glibc+coreutils into Android.
(DIR) Post #ArHQxKpAjXkOP3IJwe by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-19T15:16:07.546356Z
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@tusooa @cas I'd also take that as an implementation detail of the social and philosophical values.Which is why I think FLOSS or even Libre matters in the naming, specially if you associate it with a libre ecosystem that's user-centered and sustainable rather than like shareholders and product shipping centered.
(DIR) Post #ArHRJWbbc0UTJRWups by tusooa@kazv.moe
2025-02-19T15:17:33.377380Z
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@lanodan @cas looks like gnome has to be kicked out for this
(DIR) Post #ArHSehePqBwBbXVTge by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-19T15:35:10.063532Z
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@tusooa @cas Kicked out might be a bit too strong but yeah, I don't think they're really compatible.Like I think we all know which side of the barrier they'll be on if there's ever a nasty split between community-based and corporate-based development in the floss ecosystem.Heck sometimes you can literally see the five stages of grief when it comes to realizing where gnome stands.
(DIR) Post #ArHhiB4kOaJR2pwDIG by adrianyyy@chaos.social
2025-02-19T16:00:23Z
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@cas @strm @fossdd @z3ntu @newbyte @lanodan @pabloyoyoista If people want to get their hands dirty with building a downstream kernel, nothing is stopping them from doing so. They can compile it and build an Android boot image if they want. But I fail to see why postmarketOS should be a playground for people to compile their Android kernels, package them upstream and never come back (because that's what most devices w/downstream in testing are: unmaintained)
(DIR) Post #ArHhiCPLRUNnB0aB2O by strm@fedi.inclementaviary.uk
2025-02-19T16:10:21.788221Z
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@adrianyyy @cas @fossdd @z3ntu @newbyte @lanodan @pabloyoyoista i see that as a path to a joyless, almost obsessive insistence on sticking to a few select devices then community has declared 'chosen ones'if I was told "work on OP6 or do pine64's job for them", I'd sooner leave. not why I'm here, and I'd rather the project have clear messaging on thata contributor feeling comfortable enough to play around with a device is the on-ramp to having them work on more things in the future. sure, they may become unmaintained, but I don't see that as unreasonable as long as expectations are set accordinglygranted some stick around and some don't, but them's the breaks with all FOSS projects, the kernel complains about drive by commits often enough
(DIR) Post #ArITrLMUJhnhLvfkUS by Logical_Error@fosstodon.org
2025-02-20T03:05:18Z
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@valpackett @fossdd @pabloyoyoista @strm @z3ntu @newbyte @adrianyyy @cas @lanodan tbh it really depends on if people are willing to help u. if no one is willing to answer newbie questions ull be stuck for a couple years (ask me how i know)i think its a good idea to keep downstream and mainline just so people are aware of devices that can possibly be mainlined
(DIR) Post #ArITrMirG1HxZb97zs by Logical_Error@fosstodon.org
2025-02-20T03:07:21Z
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@cas @fossdd @lanodan @newbyte @pabloyoyoista @adrianyyy @strm @z3ntu @valpackett thats why i really advocate for at least a forum. its self documenting wheres matrix isntand wow 500 characters is not a lot when replying to a thread this long. 250 chars just for people XD
(DIR) Post #ArJPBncAg3uO9lu1nE by strm@fedi.inclementaviary.uk
2025-02-20T06:39:17.739444Z
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@Logical_Error @cas @fossdd @lanodan @newbyte @pabloyoyoista @adrianyyy @z3ntu @valpackett hard agree on a more durable support forum of some kind. i've had to download and grep entire matrix channel logs to see if anyone's had similar problems in the past
(DIR) Post #ArJPoa17AQH9HI3tQm by adrianyyy@chaos.social
2025-02-20T07:04:31Z
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@strm @fossdd @Logical_Error @z3ntu @newbyte @lanodan @cas @pabloyoyoista @valpackett agreed, a public forum for these things is more suitable than matrix chats. I'll set up a discourse instance on mainlining.org tomorrow - let's give it a try :)
(DIR) Post #ArJvgGSNCmgOpStH4S by DiogoConstantino@masto.pt
2025-02-20T20:04:24Z
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@fossdd @lanodan @cas so at what line count did it stopped being Linux?
(DIR) Post #ArJvgHO9jwu5ifvQ8W by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-20T20:09:48.231181Z
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@DiogoConstantino @fossdd @cas Line count isn't really a good unit for anything, but 1M+ line counts effectively means it's going to be either: Hard enough to merge that the device could already be obsolete once done;To potentially impossible, for example when the code isn't readable enough to be picked up by other maintainers.
(DIR) Post #ArJw3qaP2hnhXjtKYy by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-20T20:14:06.301679Z
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@DiogoConstantino @cas @fossdd And in those 1M+ diff vendor kernels there's also some where you have additional userspace APIs, making it even more clear that they are effectively different systems.
(DIR) Post #ArKJ3IifFx4PS9SqNk by DiogoConstantino@masto.pt
2025-02-21T00:29:39Z
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@lanodan @fossdd @cas I see the goal posts mooving...
(DIR) Post #ArKJ3JcfthsCFrfZgW by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2025-02-21T00:31:42.034459Z
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@DiogoConstantino @fossdd @cas Well I'm not fossdd and hiveminds aren't a thing yet.
(DIR) Post #ArKJq8FywdJNC3Kh4C by a1ba@suya.place
2025-02-21T00:40:27.938399Z
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@casstill fine for me until the phone can do what the average phones these days supposed to do, i.e. calling, accessing internet, taking pictures, running games and playing media.And that's where postmarketOS devices usually lack at least one of these features, which let's be honest, actually makes it less preferable for somebody not willing to rewrite or outright reverse engineer vendor BSP hacks.Both still valuable though and good for developing apps, yeah!