Post ArBQsZHYO2bqqYXMlk by vincent@r.town
(DIR) More posts by vincent@r.town
(DIR) Post #Ar7Jkt93B1PDp26wme by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-14T18:08:04.971209Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
Mastodon's specification for Quote Posts is finally out and... It's not bad!It is based on FEP-e232, on top of which they add a quote control mechanism. I believe that quote controls in decentralized network don't make much sense, and currently I have no plans to implement them, but from a technical perspective, the design is quite good. Hopefully it stays that wayRE: https://mastodon.social/users/MastodonEngineering/statuses/114003104286886445
(DIR) Post #Ar7KPYEBqoS2p0u9IX by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T18:15:48.154579Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill I don't really understand how they want to provide a mechanism by which one can dictate activities upon a remote server. E.g.:> You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.> You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time.To me, that completely spits in the face of instance sovereignty. I.e., "how can you/your instance tell my instance what to do/what it can/cannot do?"
(DIR) Post #Ar7LbFFEM76TNLWzku by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-14T18:28:41.459771Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz Every Mastodon quote will have a link pointing to a special "approval" object. Author of a quoted post can delete this object, thus revoking the approval.As long as software knows about those approvals (and their revocations), quote controls can work. But not all projects are going to implement this, and of course nobody can prevent people from doing screenshots.
(DIR) Post #Ar7g8xwz9yhAfRM0jw by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T22:19:19.131942Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@adiz @silverpill It makes sense when you realize who Mastodon's target demographic it was marketed to is, that Bluesky is eating their lunch by being exactly how Mastodon was marketed in 2017 (do you see Sirius XM DJs shouting out or brands using fedi? No, but they sure love bsky), and that the entire goal of Mastodon is to be pre-Elon Musk Twitter on Rhino Pills.It was made by people who saw "that" era of Twitter and declared, they didn't go far enough.(This mindset is also why fediblocking stuff exists because there's 2 different networks on the same protocol).
(DIR) Post #Ar7gSX7ubFB9GanMg4 by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T22:22:52.004370Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws Oh, I know entirely why this implementation they're going with is as such: none of Mastodon-Fedi genuinely believes in freedom nor sovereignty. They hate that the Fediverse is uncontrolled and diverse and outside of their control. It's always been about control with them. If they cared so much about the ideological tenants of the Fediverse, the internet, F/LOSS, et al. then they'd not make such a concerted effort to sabotage the network nor exodus to centralized echo-chambers like BlueSky. @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7gzLA26pRViBQmNE by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T22:28:47.283449Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz @silverpill To add to the mindset of "Twitter on Rhino Pills", this is also why many bad decisions of Mastodon were made, against the will of users, and then dividing the users when they were finally added in (in a half baked state because of said users).Case in point: Searching. Searching was always broken on Mastodon and gimped to hashtags and searching your own posts. Why? Because that was exactly a common tactic on Twitter (and certain other sites like Reddit, SomethingAwful, and more): using post history to win arguments or cancel people. Others thought that you would be able to search certain tags and have a phonebook of people to harass for being X (seriously).https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/4947733https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/594https://web.archive.org/web/20170507141910/https://mastodon.social/@datapup/1470817Eventually it got added in a half-baked state, and not without users writing text walls about how being able to use a search bar was literally cyber terrorism.Then these people will then ask themselves why Bluesky boomed and people stayed on Twitter, when artists will complain about how nobody can find them or interact with them on fedi (thanks to this and instance blocking being rampant) while also lacking the FOMO factor that Bluesky has with certain communities.
(DIR) Post #Ar7h3aoBsCppOtF3yq by Alex@boymilk.cafe
2025-02-14T22:29:33.471034Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
this is without a doubt the best take gargron has ever had and it's sad to see mastodon back down on this, quote posts are a hell feature that has 0 positive value, they exclusively make the network worse for literally anyone who isn't an awful person
(DIR) Post #Ar7hK4AqSecJ6oh4Xg by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T22:32:31.622439Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Alex I genuinely don't see that the case nor really understand how this can be an unironically perspective. @sendpaws @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7hRsfP80e5jkiJN2 by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T22:33:56.763614Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz @silverpill The exodus is working so much better than trying to sabotage the network is, because the only people it sabotages are people who run Mastodon. What they have sabotaged is fedi PR harder with the whole "Mastodon Network" branding that both them and journalists use to some degree.Search not working is literally not a problem for anyone running any other fedi software. It's only a Mastodon thing. But someone who joins a Mastodon instance and sees the jankness of it and the community will end up going back to Twitter or to Bluesky, and the latter especially because of how hard it is being advertised. Sure, you can get banned from Bluesky very easily, but it's got the marketing of "every furry Twitter e-celeb using it".To add to that, I saw a post from Eugen a while back complaining that Mastodon on the App Store gets reviewbombed because of the community he made.https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/113783234251476905
(DIR) Post #Ar7hSUGvJTdsMpYIUK by Alex@boymilk.cafe
2025-02-14T22:34:03.425030Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
they are used primarily to sever discussions and encourage brigading. they are inherently toxic and harmful to the flow of conversation.
(DIR) Post #Ar7hbdV2NGpjanW4hs by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T22:35:42.914399Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws Mastodon courted some of the absolute worst demographics on the internet imaginable to become its core user-base. Sleep in that bed! @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7hfJqBPLDnmPABJw by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T22:36:21.883241Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Alex Maybe I'm just not on whatever side of Fedi that's commonplace but I don't ever really experience that over here. @sendpaws @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7hgSBBtDcPvpWwme by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T22:36:33.704499Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz @Alex @silverpill Quote posts are divisive online for many reasons, from how they deteriorated Twitter discussion after they were added to the site to how they shaped Tumblr's discussion and made the site overly political and argumentative. In fact Tumblr was even worse; you couldn't reply to posts but you had to reblog them with commentary added. Imagine if instead of being able to RT you had to quote tweet only.I can reassure you in the Pleroma sphere there was a huge flamewar over quote posts like 2 years ago.
(DIR) Post #Ar7hprSjG33Wx3DgYq by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T22:38:16.526975Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz @Alex @silverpill It's really bad on sites like BlueSky and Twitter for sure, if only for the "severing discussion" aspect alone.In fact on Twitter it was what the site became known for in it's later years, and "disabling replies" on posts led to this being even worse.
(DIR) Post #Ar7hs05GAsJEGmGJwe by Alex@boymilk.cafe
2025-02-14T22:38:40.052271Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
essentially their primary purpose is to create a second sub-thread that is invisible to the original thread, thus severing the conversation and damaging the ability for people in the thread to actually engage with each other. this "private sub-thread" mechanic also encourages people to basically just make sub-threads shitting on someone by making it a click away, you don't even need to go through the effort of screencapping someone to shit on them, and even better, it links right to them so anyone who you're asking to go attack them just needs to click a single button to start flaming them instead of needing to type their name into a search bar. awful feature, damages literally every network its been applied to.
(DIR) Post #Ar7i8J9T33OS2b0SMi by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T22:41:36.093864Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@Alex @silverpill @adiz I've seen cancerous threads on Twitter which are like chains of 20 replies of just quote tweets or someone making EVERY SINGLE REPLY a quote tweet. Twitter tried to at least show quote tweets at some point with a click instead of just getting rid of it, but it's bad design still.It goes against the design of a discussion board or community.
(DIR) Post #Ar7iTg2BAPr55gmqSe by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T22:45:28.447627Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws That's wild. I was never really a Twitter use and I briefly had Tumblr back in the day when it was more of a mood board blog kinda deal or whatever. I just don't see people doing that on my slice of the Fediverse, nor ever have. I don't often quote-post, but I appreciate having the ability to do so. @Alex @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7llJ0boT9Yko9MIq by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-14T23:21:13.275842Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz @sendpaws @Alex This is my experience as well, I have never seen quote-fights here. Maybe they are more commonplace on twitter, I don't know. That place have algorithmic timelines which might reward such behavior.
(DIR) Post #Ar7mNdfBT7O3ohPJQ0 by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-14T23:29:12.808889Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@silverpill @Alex @sendpaws @adiz as I mentioned in another thread, mastodon devs and users had a large contingent that considered it abuse because the primary use of quote posts is presenting another post as an object of ridicule to "dunk on". But "Black Twitter" literally said it such an integral part of using Twitter that not implementing that feature would be racism. Not even using it in some other context, they considered their dunking to be a protected activity.
(DIR) Post #Ar7mXl4ilZMnhTB3lw by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-14T23:31:02.612700Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sun Twitter/Mastodon/BlueSky is populated by insane people. @Alex @sendpaws @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7n3h6d3jNGelIXdg by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-14T23:36:48.904375Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@adiz @Alex @sendpaws @silverpill I was actually in the "it's mainly used for harassment" camp but after it was implemented in akkoma and soapbox I decided on reflection that it just wasn't actually that bad. But it still blows my mind that the argument was "it is racist to not let us ridicule people"
(DIR) Post #Ar7nLOQlESIPws9bou by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2025-02-14T23:39:58.913Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa @sun@shitposter.world @Alex@boymilk.cafe @sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party @silverpill@mitra.social you gotta be inclusive towards insane people who hate you bruh
(DIR) Post #Ar7nS0SikDTjdgDxnU by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-14T23:41:12.124507Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jeff @Alex @adiz There is no way for Mastodon to recover from the fact that Bluesky picked up as many users in nine days that the Fediverse acquired in...when did statusnet start?
(DIR) Post #Ar7nYhUreimMqVQ2Fs by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-14T23:42:25.080714Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@jeff @Alex @adiz Fediverse is great, it's my only real home, but it is not the last, best and only protocol humanity needs
(DIR) Post #Ar7noY5gOZiYJ4CIym by Noraweed@shitposter.world
2025-02-14T23:45:17.142276Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @silverpill @Alex @adiz @sendpaws @silverpill @Alex @sendpaws @adiz >they considered their dunking to be a protected activity. Kinda based of those niggers tbh
(DIR) Post #Ar7ojm6kx4jgHpzGEq by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-14T23:55:35.219566Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @Alex @silverpill @adiz wow you can get zapped on mitra
(DIR) Post #Ar7olnhxyPlzpRMF5k by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-14T23:55:59.509061Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sendpaws @Alex @silverpill @adiz it works!
(DIR) Post #Ar7pHslchRWkmlMkQy by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-15T00:01:46.459620Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill @adiz @Alex >That place have algorithmic timelines which might reward such behavior.It 100% does, and the Mastodon/Bluesky crowd to some degree want it. As much as Bluesky/Mastodon "lacks an algorithm", they both have trending feeds/discover tabs. Just because it's not the default on the TL doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it 100% does.So if you make a tweet that farms engagement like taking part in some flamewar, it's rewarded.
(DIR) Post #Ar7pZjFIq2QyT5l4FM by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-15T00:04:59.364166Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @Alex @silverpill @adiz There's also a wide contingent of Twitter users that rely on it. Bluesky added it because unlike Mastodon, they saw it as an integral feature.That and on bsky, quotes are easily broken in the case of blocks and similar.
(DIR) Post #Ar7pd1ad5mhsEJIyoK by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-02-15T00:02:31.294748Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws @silverpill @adiz > Search not working is literally not a problem for anyone running any other fedi software.search is not very good, though...
(DIR) Post #Ar7pd2UdjXVf21Vi76 by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-15T00:05:34.391681Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mischievoustomato @silverpill @adiz On Mastodon it just doesn't work except for hashtags, by design.
(DIR) Post #Ar7pmvdi4PzyffT6rA by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-15T00:07:23.982308Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sendpaws @Alex @silverpill @adiz people agree it has some value but it was a question if it was worth the negative aspects.
(DIR) Post #Ar7ppIJEkty1Yk1Kr2 by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-02-15T00:06:39.488395Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @Alex @jeff @adiz my favorite thing is how people gloated so much over how mastodon got a shitload of users, most of which went right back to twitter. There's that infamous Tom Scott post "making this account in case this is the next big thing", from 6 years ago
(DIR) Post #Ar7puM1MNoEyWE4UaG by sun@shitposter.world
2025-02-15T00:08:44.087554Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@sendpaws @Alex @adiz @silverpill also like, bluesky can enforce some of the moderation protections because it's not actually decentralized lol
(DIR) Post #Ar7qMcPN36SFS2mPFQ by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
2025-02-15T00:07:04.080785Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws @Alex @silverpill @adiz @sun mitra is so kino.
(DIR) Post #Ar7qnMdXnKwkM8A8Wm by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-15T00:18:39.257810Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @Alex @silverpill @adiz "quote post harassment"/dunking happens even more with replies disabled funny enough
(DIR) Post #Ar7r75S9ORWAqxEo40 by deutrino@mstdn.io
2025-02-15T00:21:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws @sun @Alex @adiz @silverpill Taylor Lorenz is an *excellent* example of a user who should stay on Bluesky
(DIR) Post #Ar7t2F8m9Dq9MIzeZk by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-15T00:43:45.753047Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deutrino @sun @Alex @adiz @silverpill >she still uses mastosoc💀
(DIR) Post #Ar7vTXwOYYxlOULjBg by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-15T01:11:06.836214Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@sendpaws Mastodon "thread 🧵 1/x" is so annoying. I used to report that shit to instance administrators as spam, just to be an asshole, because it's really so obnoxious. I cannot believe that wide character limits for posts would break Mastodon. Every other instance software is pretty liberal with the limitations therein, thereby allowing full posts to be made without things having to get broken up and disjointed. Mastodon, across the board, is pretty trash. It's objectively the worst conventional Fediverse software out there in my opinion. @sun @Alex @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar7vfbYUwYIQ4yvCmu by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-15T01:13:17.957104Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@adiz @sun @Alex @silverpill it has a comical character limit by default too.Look at this shit that on pleroma, mitra, and many more is just "edit this config file"https://fouquet.me/2024/10/10/mastodon-4-3-char-limit
(DIR) Post #Ar7wR1DDN0ATGLZimu by Alex@boymilk.cafe
2025-02-15T01:21:51.850634Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
My current instance has a meagre 5k characters per post because I can not remember how to change it (I am a very competent fedi admin) but on my last instance I had a 8008569420 character limit, for fun. The one other person who actually used that instance attempted to actually use the whole limit once, crashing the server. Fun times. Past a certain point a post would literally have too many characters for my hardware to handle, never figured out exactly how many.
(DIR) Post #Ar7wWCG9iuFkyQQ6RE by adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa
2025-02-15T01:22:47.920353Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Alex> never figured out exactly how manyThe truth is out there.@sendpaws @silverpill @sun
(DIR) Post #Ar81rO59SiOVUbCG7U by Hoss@shitpost.cloud
2025-02-15T02:22:39.326937Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Doing a drive-by on some retard's post is what makes quote posting based, and anybody who cries about it should try not being a cringe faggot.
(DIR) Post #Ar8285tyJF1a1vvxWi by dj@ak.parcero.casa
2025-02-15T02:25:41.515311Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sendpaws @silverpill @adiz Custom emojis are problematic too because it lets people dog pile your notifications without contributing anything to the conversation. :pepetroll:
(DIR) Post #Ar8ERqnBOWuyPVwfgm by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-15T04:23:08Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@silverpill @Pawslut420 The most malicious quote posts are usually screenshots. They know that after the ruckus, the tweet would be deleted, so they screenshot it. And they purposefully post it on other platforms so that it is spread widely and less likely to be rebutted. This new system that Mastodon is building would not stop this type of attack.
(DIR) Post #Ar8QtOJk3WgLei4c6K by lain@lain.com
2025-02-15T07:03:07.252125Z
6 likes, 2 repeats
@silverpill > You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.> You will be notified when someone quotes you.> You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time.once again, they just promise things that are literally impossible to do
(DIR) Post #Ar8Roc49byNAno4GOG by ilja@ilja.space
2025-02-15T07:13:20.513648Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lain https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/pre-fep-quote-posts-quote-policies-and-quote-controls/5031/9?u=ilja :blobfoxuwu: @silverpill
(DIR) Post #Ar8RxEPYvcn62qBttg by ilja@ilja.space
2025-02-15T07:14:54.069563Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @silverpill i have no idea if they will listen htough, but at least when someone, again, claims *others* are malicious bc masto lied to them, i'll have something to link to.
(DIR) Post #Ar8Yj2PVRy80RwLNOy by raucao@kosmos.social
2025-02-15T07:17:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @silverpill "We promise that we can control other people's software". Uhm, no?
(DIR) Post #Ar8Yw8VG6nCp6vHR6O by lain@lain.com
2025-02-15T08:33:16.356678Z
5 likes, 1 repeats
@ilja @silverpill honestly, i have a lot of sympathy with gargron, especially on this issue. I don't like quote posts at all and resisted them for a long time. But users both want it and use it (unlike groups, which they want but won't use). People just have really unrealistic expectations about what is possible in a truly decentralized system, so they constantly want literally impossible features. The mastodon issue tracker is full of this stuff.
(DIR) Post #Ar8ZtSSxWwlm6sUX9U by ilja@ilja.space
2025-02-15T08:43:44.050480Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @silverpill Have you read the link where i replied on socialhub? (I would be interested to hear your thoughts on it) I don't think it's as impossible as you think to have such restrictions. Obviously you can't fully stop a malicious actor, but at least you can make sure that only malicious means can be used.This is the "mastodon dm's over ostatus" all over again. It's not that dm's are impossible, we currently have them and it works. But if you send them around as public posts with some optional option not everyone is expected to understand, then they aren't dm's. Same is true here. It's possible to have a way to have such restrictions all participants are expected to understand. But if you send them around as public posts with some optional option not everyone is expected to understand, then they aren't restrictions.
(DIR) Post #Ar8aVuH0alk1MBEeVU by lain@lain.com
2025-02-15T08:50:56.176772Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ilja @silverpill yeah, i read it. i still see no way around the fundamental issue, that most people don't understand the trade offs you have to make when you want a decentralized system. Maybe just kinda sorta pretending that it works like mastodon does is the way to go, at least the users seem to want it.
(DIR) Post #Ar8d0s5WxxSvStl9Xc by ilja@ilja.space
2025-02-15T09:18:47.420734Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @silverpill I'd say people haven't even been given the chance to choose the trade-offs...The trade-off in the case of only sending to actors who indicate to understand these restrictions or not, is between more discoverability (but knowing not everyone understands your attempted restrictions), or having the restrictions (but some people not receiving the post). I don't see why people would not be able to understand this. People understand not everyone will see their MFM or emoji reactions for example, that's a similar deal. But here, people aren't even given a choice.All the other reasons why you can't fully restrict a "quote", are just as true on centralised platforms as they are on fedi. One exception maybe being a bad actor indicating they understand the restrictions, but then not follow them. I'd argue that's very limited, always restricted to instances explicitly doing this, and people would be right to consider this malicious behaviour.
(DIR) Post #Ar8eKLRq8BWhym2n4K by lain@lain.com
2025-02-15T09:33:39.666375Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@ilja @silverpill i'm just saying that empirically, people do not understand it. they report issues that mastodon has been hacked because they see a message that has more than 500 characters. they say that notifying other servers about blocks is encouraging harassment, but not notifying them also does. mastodon issues are full of these kinds of issues.
(DIR) Post #Ar8fNZbE4ZuOgxXO9A by ilja@ilja.space
2025-02-15T09:45:17.611945Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @silverpill i did not know about those, that's pretty bad indeed :blobfoxsweating: i don't think that's a reason to not try to do better in implementing these things, but i think i understand better what you mean with people (in general) not understanding.
(DIR) Post #Ar8lXb3A8MT3oNldUe by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-15T10:53:58.888216Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ilja @lain They seem to recognize that proposed mechanism is not perfect (in the introduction):>Of course, no mechanism will be airtight, there will always be ways to quote someone else, by manually repeating their words, using screenshots and so on. Nevertheless, providing a framework for consent, and adding friction in the absence of consent, is worthwhile.Do they actually claim that non-implementing servers are malicious? If so, I would protest against that too, but their decision to use FEP-e232 kind of indicates that they are willing to interoperate with software not implementing quote controls.
(DIR) Post #Ar8xA4cPkJCi16o1YG by ilja@ilja.space
2025-02-15T13:04:23.984114Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill @lain they don't claim this directly, no. But they do claim in their blog post that people *will* be able to restrict others, and that's false. And history has shown how people react when such wrong expectation suddenly become visible. The fact that they comunicate about this on socialhub indeed indicates they want to cooperate. That's why I mentioned it there, because I really hope this can be taken into account.
(DIR) Post #ArBOJuwtddhs09DyzY by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-16T15:55:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Quick question. Is the problem that it was quoted or is the problem that it was attributed to someone? For example, if someone says something controversial or misinformed and someone quotes it, does it matter if it's attributed to someone or not? You can't harass the person who wrote it if you don't know who wrote it.In some cases it may be useful to remove the attribution but not the quote. Because removing the quote deletes vital information from the conversation. If the goal is to reduce harassment, then removing the attribution but not the quote may be a good compromise.Otherwise people will purposely quote someone in a way that the quote can't be deleted to avoid it's deletion.
(DIR) Post #ArBOJwBT2wxLpd38LI by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-16T17:17:25.176671Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scott The problem that Mastodon devs are worried about is caused by attribution, and indeed removing attribution might solve it. But I think that would make quoting far less useful.
(DIR) Post #ArBQsZHYO2bqqYXMlk by vincent@r.town
2025-02-16T17:44:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill Do you think it would be useful if I added the "https://misskey-hub.net/ns#_misskey_quote" rel attribute to bird.makeup in QT right away?
(DIR) Post #ArBQsaYxco7yopgmXY by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-16T17:46:22.632187Z
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@vincent Yes. Some platforms that implement FEP-e232 may ignore the link tag if it doesn't have this relation type
(DIR) Post #ArBRGIAfem98jBd8lc by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-16T17:28:35Z
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@silverpill What if the author of the post could turn off attribution?
(DIR) Post #ArBRGJ6oAcePdUpZNw by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-16T17:50:23.628686Z
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@scott If I were going to implement quote controls, I would consider this option. It makes sense
(DIR) Post #ArBRgzNJeEdKFfH6kS by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-16T17:56:14.680079Z
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@silverpill @scottHonestly look at bsky for an example of how not to do things too. Quotes and context break all the time because of how hard the moderation is. If the op blocks the quote poster, if someone blocks someone else, posts and context just vanish. Etc.
(DIR) Post #ArBRjIm4UcP4zqxOgi by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-16T17:56:38.507746Z
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@silverpill @scott also the thing is quote enabling can just be ignored or mrfed away like scopes already are on some instances so....
(DIR) Post #ArBS7DpCXx50b0pKxV by vincent@r.town
2025-02-16T17:52:05Z
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@silverpill Do you know with which platforms compatibility would be improved with just this change?
(DIR) Post #ArBS7EV22QXYgkOk9w by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-02-16T18:00:12.890478Z
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@vincent Foundkey requires rel:https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-e232-object-links/2722/35I don't know about the others
(DIR) Post #ArCC0mOMDzFrfU8YXw by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-17T02:20:40Z
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@Pawslut420 And there is also some cultural differences. Now that we have microblogging and forums interacting with each other, we will start seeing a culture clash. Forums generally use quotes to keep people accountable for what they say, whereas microblogging platforms are hesitant to implement quoting because it can lead to harassment.The difference probably lies with the fact that forums tend to have an additional layer of moderation, and have threaded conversations where the conversation owner can delete posts within the thread. It is easier to moderate a forum than it is a microblogging platform because of these additional tools.
(DIR) Post #ArCC0n3pjmQpk7XgC8 by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-17T02:35:13.034528Z
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@scott>Forums generally use quotes to keep people accountable for what they say, whereas microblogging platforms are hesitant to implement quoting because it can lead to harassment.Forums use quoting much differently though and it works nothing like Twitter quotes. On forums, quoting is just like this reply to you where I can choose what parts to reply to, or can break up the post to reply to different sections. This is also notably done on Usenet/mailing lists, with arrows such as what I just did. Sometimes it's nicknamed as greentext, while on chat programs such as gajim it will turn the post into a quote with that formatting.Twitter quotes on the other hand break the chain of discussion entirely.>The difference probably lies with the fact that forums tend to have an additional layer of moderationSo do many fedi instances depending on the owner. Fedi instances are either single user/group of friends, or trying to be small social media networks. They are nowhere near the level of a moderation fiasco as trying to run say an imageboard, where the probability of illegal posts is very high (see the video, mitra won't let me post alt text for a video but it explains one such illegal post that causes sites to close online). In fact, many people who were imageboard users back in the day eventually got into the fedi sphere because it's impossible to host an imageboard without becoming a liability, while you can make a fedi instance and disable regs.>and have threaded conversations where the conversation owner can delete posts within the thread.The truth is, posts can be undeleted, just like how DMs aren't private. This is especially common if a user "rage deletes" or "rage edits" posts that have valuable information and bring clicks to the site.
(DIR) Post #ArCDGFP8jqjtwmRV5c by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-17T02:49:14.575040Z
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@scott To add to the moderation thing, there's a reason many instances close registrations during times of high demand, when the site or fedi at large gets media coverage somewhere else, or for moderation reasons.It's also why many instances will hide posts from remote instances to unauthenticated users (and I hope this is something mitra implements). Here's a very real story:An admin of an instance was getting scraped by boardreader and it was hammering his traffic, and he had issues trying to get them to stop scraping it. Before they quit scraping it, a FBI agent who saw these scraped posts from his instance contacted him about a user on an entirely different instance posting threats about the billionaire CEO of a major investment firm that had drawn a lot of hate.It's also why Misskey.io geolocks new signups to Japanese users only, because it ends up trimming out a lot of the bad actors who would sign up (and the instances it ended up superseding in Japanese fedi had this issue to an extreme level). Or it's why many instances have you ask to join and have CAPTCHAs, to stop spambots from flooding the fedi (this also happened).There's a lot of unique fedi moderation things you only learn about by running an instance or knowing people who do, just like how you learn about how forum moderation works by being a forum mod or running one.
(DIR) Post #ArCDN5URzwv9E2BjEW by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-17T02:47:25Z
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@Pawslut420 What I meant about multiple levels of moderation is the fact that on platforms that support threaded conversations, in addition to the administrators who can delete posts and block people, and users who can block users, you also have the conversation owner who can remove posts within the thread. On Mastodon, there are no threads and no conversation owners. So forums and Facebook-style platforms have an additional moderation tool, removing posts from a thread.
(DIR) Post #ArCDN6a9wD56c1rnlo by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-17T02:50:27.397129Z
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@scott You can actually do this on Pleroma for sure. I have no knowledge of Mastodon administration, but on Pleroma if you're a mod/admin you can delete remote posts within the thread.I've never heard of conversation owners being able to delete posts in a thread in any forum I've been on, only mods can do this. You can only delete your own posts on most forum software (I'm talking VB, XenForo, Phpbb, and many more).
(DIR) Post #ArCLYpW01B1amv1TAO by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-17T03:55:25Z
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@Pawslut420 On forums the conversation owner is the owner of the forum. Some platforms like Hubzilla allow users to create their own forums. So a forum owner might be different than the administrator of the server. On Facebook style platforms, the conversation owner is the owner of the channel or the account holder. The conversation owner can delete comments on posts they own.
(DIR) Post #ArCLYqDFQNcSx3G0Zs by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-17T04:22:12.562549Z
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@scott I've never used hubzilla, when I think of forums I don't think of the reddit/8chan/freeforums model of "anyone can create a forum on our platform", but rather centralized sites that only host one forum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are describing this model, where anyone could make a subreddit, specific imageboard on a larger site, or free forum and be the admin of it (while being beholden to the rules and regulations of the larger site).For years, especially when forum culture was at it's peak, when forums like NeoGAF/Resetera, SomethingAwful, and many more had cultural pull over the internet, or when pretty much every site had a forum of some sort, and before forums became a "database of old posts to run ads on/mine for AI models", that's how forums operated. On these forums running either some off the shelf software or something made with duct tape and hopes and dreams, most people are users and not mods/admins.
(DIR) Post #ArDlul4W0iQnLQFC4G by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-17T19:22:26Z
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@Pawslut420 What the heck does that video have to do with the rest of your post. I just watched it for the first time. If anyone from the Secret Service is listening, I do not condone anything in that video.
(DIR) Post #ArDlwIQ5Vd8P3q4GNk by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
2025-02-17T20:52:31.430900Z
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@scott because fedi instances have real issues over some kid saying he wants to do just that
(DIR) Post #ArDp3cBIjbB6EvKhPM by spacemanspiff@noauthority.social
2025-02-17T21:27:28Z
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@scott the more someone desires moderation, they more likely they are to be a worthless commie NPC.if only we americans would understand that they DO have free speech in europe, provided you don't say the things they can put you in jail for saying. 😂 @sendpaws
(DIR) Post #ArDxFoUBbxmpVgUgFc by scott@loves.tech
2025-02-17T22:28:27Z
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@sky-rider of the spaceways But there is also something to be said about the server administrator's right to kick people off their server. Most servers have some sort of community rules. If someone doesn't like the community rules, they can set up their own fediverse server themselves and abide by their own rules.
(DIR) Post #ArDxFoz1lISN3KvJK4 by spacemanspiff@noauthority.social
2025-02-17T22:59:18Z
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@scott so much to unpack here.in no particular order...yes, of course an individual administrator of a "mom and pop" fedi instance should have the right to kick people off, much like you or I could ask the other to leave our property. but all too often this function/blacklisting gets un-critically outsourced to extremists.further, this suggests that people without the time, resources, or knowledge to run a social media instance are inherently second-class citizens online. (1/x)
(DIR) Post #ArDxIRrCCY2mCFVrFI by spacemanspiff@noauthority.social
2025-02-17T22:59:47Z
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@scott of course, this wasn't a problem for the left with twitter or facebook - a platform you've encouraged others to leave - until they ceased being dominated by left-wing interests. reddit, OTOH, remains a cesspool of worthless leftist deviants, but their day will come.but your last sentence there... it unmistakably invokes memories of "just make your own twitter." tell me, how do you feel about elon musk's acquisition of twitter? (2/x)
(DIR) Post #ArDxL9Rp6RZRyCvy1Q by spacemanspiff@noauthority.social
2025-02-17T23:00:14Z
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@scott are you, like so many others, upset that one of countless thumbs got taken off the electoral scale? or do you fancy yourself the victim of they, and facebook, allowing your political rivals even one seat at the table? another quote comes to mind: "When someone is accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." (3/x)
(DIR) Post #ArDxLp9s1aALKgrDs0 by spacemanspiff@noauthority.social
2025-02-17T23:00:23Z
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@scott do you see no parallel between this "digital refugee" status and the predicament of ANY american right of center for the last, oh I don't know, 15 years? in which they were kicked off one platform after another, then the scarcity of agreement with their opinions among the remaining users cited in doing so repeatedly? that's not to mention the astroturfing by USAID, et al. (4/4)