Post AqB02vDXy9JkovP4tM by element@mastodon.matrix.org
(DIR) More posts by element@mastodon.matrix.org
(DIR) Post #AqAWOL3Y6DGiPk1VFg by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2025-01-17T08:37:52Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
🚨Nation-scale Matrix deployments will fail if built on the community version of Synapse.The community version of Synapse is not designed or intended for use by commercial Matrix hosting providers to serve huge nation-scale deployments. Just as a suspension bridge has a weight limit and will collapse if you exceed it - the same goes for community Synapse.Deployments supporting millions of users need Synapse Pro.https://element.io/blog/scaling-to-millions-of-users-requires-synapse-pro/
(DIR) Post #AqAWOMUsk4j6snoqUi by butterbutt@social.thisisjoes.site
2025-01-17T09:22:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element lol. lmao
(DIR) Post #AqAx91qXw50BFrrj7I by troed@ioc.exchange
2025-01-17T09:28:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@element As a tax payer I want my government to use open source. Since Synapse Pro isn't, it's simply not usable for such cases.Thank you for detailing the need for doing the same development to the open source Synapse as you have already done on Synapse Pro. I hope you do agree, it would be a pity to have to fork.
(DIR) Post #AqAzmklv2PqZn4lriS by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2025-01-17T14:51:23.443754Z
5 likes, 1 repeats
Pretty sad Element is fucking themselves over. The death of Dendrite makes more sense now. There are a lot of other Matrix clients, but very few re-implementations of the server (none?). The blog post talks about government service. Congratulations Element, you're now selling yourself to wasteful entities that only by overpriced shit and screw over the population.It's like they're managing to piss off all communities and forcing themselves to the mediocre middle.Glad to know you're open source product is literally designed to fail! Great marking in your blog post. You will never be Slack, and now you'll also never be XMPP.
(DIR) Post #AqB02vDXy9JkovP4tM by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2025-01-17T10:27:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troed We'd also like everything to be open source. But the reality is that even with AGPL, we're still stuck in the pattern that enormous deployments use FOSS Synapse without contributing to its dev/maintenance costs.Every time an opportunity that we're counting on to fund the team turns around and says "oh, FOSS Synapse is good enough, and we can use it for free, bye" we find ourselves needing to provide a very concrete reason not to freeride - hence Synapse Pro.
(DIR) Post #AqB02vlDwwFwVN9yNs by teto@cawfee.club
2025-01-17T14:54:19.941329Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@element @troed tldr greed
(DIR) Post #AqB4D5TF6QMFKfqcXw by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2025-01-17T15:28:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@teto @troed tl;dr is more "need to be able to keep paying people to work on this".
(DIR) Post #AqB4D71JLFCg8cnLHs by teto@cawfee.club
2025-01-17T15:40:59.524868Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@element @troed donations seem to work for KDE just fine
(DIR) Post #AqB5x18NepwJ9rYS6y by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2025-01-17T15:58:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@teto @troed KDE get 350K EUR/y according to their annual report, which is barely enough to pay for the matrix.org hardware costs, let alone anyone to work on Matrix, unfortunately.
(DIR) Post #AqB5x26I45rU9faIUa by teto@cawfee.club
2025-01-17T16:00:29.444584Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@element @troed you'd could've done the obvious and sell matrix as a service or sell support for enterprise customers like Canonical. A "pro" version will just make the project look laughable to the open source community. Simple as.
(DIR) Post #AqB6h8fBzpxBpXtWgS by kdecherf@n.kdecherf.com
2025-01-17T16:06:52.958125Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@teto @troed @element Canonical is actually selling "Pro" edition of Ubuntu
(DIR) Post #AqB6h9dSNm9wqS5ecK by teto@cawfee.club
2025-01-17T16:08:48.801576Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kdecherf @troed @element but not because it's "faster". Any normal ubuntu version works just fine. And it's still open source. They just give you faster security patches or smth. Most admins check for that stuff anyways. At no company I worked at was ubuntu pro ever used.
(DIR) Post #AqB7KAlw5dGlfFf5Au by skylar@misskey.yandere.love
2025-01-17T16:15:51.186966Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@teto @troed @element "here's our paid software but i guess you can use the crummy old version with scalability problems for free" is not a good argument for why people should use your softwareeveryone who sees this knows what that means will happen over the coming months and years>sorry that feature is no longer available in the free version, would you like to buy the pro version?>haha whoops we've intentionally crippled this functionality of the free version, would you like to buy the pro version?>you're only allowed to have 10 users on the free version now, would you like to buy the pro version?>we've deliberately broken compatibility with this in the free version, would you like to buy the pro version?>the free version now has ads in all channels, would you like to buy the pro version?offering enterprise support + managed cloud hosting is the industry norm, not this
(DIR) Post #AqB7pxfiKeQUIiuRcW by Tadano@amala.schwartzwelt.xyz
2025-01-17T16:21:39.109669Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@skylar @teto @troed @element Also wondering how exactly a paid pro version with extra features isn't a violation of the AGPL without those very features being freely available on someone else's public repo
(DIR) Post #AqB99CRLkQpjYnvb2e by Tadano@amala.schwartzwelt.xyz
2025-01-17T16:36:18.744240Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@element @teto @troed Why not sell enterprise support instead then? Red Hat and Canonical built multimillion dollar businesses on this, and I'm sure there's a niche Matrix can exploit. Businesses are either still on XMPP or are had at the nads by MS Teams and/or Slack, there's certainly a market for a viable way out of this while retaining support.Additionally, you mention hardware costs yet continue to build on Synapse which will inherently scale badly despite the fact that Dendrite exists. It already satisfies most of the Matrix spec, scales much better and desperately needs development resources currently allocated to Synapse. Why was there no push for developing that, especially before deciding to announce a "pro" version?
(DIR) Post #AqB9LCLNvo8MjkrL2O by teto@cawfee.club
2025-01-17T16:38:29.573690Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Tadano @troed @element matrix is already being used by european govs and military. It would work. They are just greedy.
(DIR) Post #AqB9lJ8xH1AlM2Ulw8 by pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb
2025-01-17T16:43:08.585506Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Tadano @teto @troed @element @skylar it's simple, the entity owns all the copyrights and licenses it under a proprietary license in parallel
(DIR) Post #AqB9ura2biawlTilLU by Tadano@amala.schwartzwelt.xyz
2025-01-17T16:44:55.733343Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@teto @troed @element No it's not simple greed. A greedy man would leap at the opportunity to gouge government and military for support contracts without compromising on publicly perceived goodwill. This is a combination of greed and stupidity.
(DIR) Post #AqBEMzW55tpdIrXL1c by AGARTHA_NOBLE@shortstacksran.ch
2025-01-17T17:34:08.099068Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Tadano @teto @troed @element I don't think that's entirely fair- talking about needing funds shouldn't come with that default assumption. It COULD be, but there's a very strong argument for having some form of revenue so that devs can be properly, and more completely, compensated, to continue growing the business.
(DIR) Post #AqBIZd842abrS2aLA0 by AGARTHA_NOBLE@shortstacksran.ch
2025-01-17T17:34:49.391504Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Tadano @teto @troed @element I think Enterprise support is a proven business model that would suit something like Matrix especially very well.
(DIR) Post #AqBJNArHQOVqFaMJV2 by mkljczk@pl.fediverse.pl
2025-01-17T18:30:51.779743Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog @element is Dendrite dead?
(DIR) Post #AqBMtap2j78tuBSk76 by terryenglish@blob.cat
2025-01-17T19:10:23.014301Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@element This makes me glad that I chose #XMPP over #Matrix.
(DIR) Post #AqBN3v0AYSJrO1afJI by icedquinn@blob.cat
2025-01-17T19:12:15.552368Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@terryenglish another fine bullet dodged :blobcatwine: (although prosody would cry if you tried to put a million users on it)
(DIR) Post #AqBN9GyuGKZt0FYLR2 by tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com
2025-01-17T19:13:01.331448Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@icedquinn @terryenglish Just need to use horizontal scaling with multiple servers. :blobfoxthumbsup:
(DIR) Post #AqBNDh3JGyuF1FijL6 by tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com
2025-01-17T19:13:49.709587Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@terryenglish I'm with you there. :blobfoxcomfy:
(DIR) Post #AqBNuBoBJTTYZNuM5Y by icedquinn@blob.cat
2025-01-17T19:21:41.685897Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@tk @terryenglish i don't think prosody scales and i don't think it bothers them that it doesn't.there are other xmpp servers which do (although some of those also have corpo editions shrug)
(DIR) Post #AqBQJXNQSWCgbwbjzk by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2025-01-17T19:09:27Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mkljczk @djsumdog nope, but it's being developed as a best-effort FOSS project currently, as there's no $ to fund folks to work on both it & synapse fulltime. it had a similar fallow period in 2018-2019 which it bounced back from. If/when we have available $ we'll fund fulltime dev on it again.
(DIR) Post #AqCn5YtQW8prMYqBt2 by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2025-01-18T11:38:30.594Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element@mastodon.matrix.org @troed@ioc.exchange Stop developing proprietary software!If not Ejabberd is free, we will install this instead.​:gnujihad:​
(DIR) Post #AqDkWzmuWdXftG8uZ6 by debacle@framapiaf.org
2025-01-18T09:35:59Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@icedquinn @terryenglish #Prosody by @prosodyim might not be the best choice for #nationScale (nice #bullshit #marketing term, btw.) deployments. But there is #ejabberd by @ejabberd which seems to scale pretty well.
(DIR) Post #AqGBPeC9UkS9yMacQS by troed@ioc.exchange
2025-01-17T10:39:14Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@element Do you know of any successful open source businesses that have used this particular method?"How to make money from FOSS" is an age old problem - but "the free version has a sucky implementation" is, afaik, not the most successful one.
(DIR) Post #AqHGuENkD8oJoxNHLk by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2025-01-20T15:31:30.738875Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @troed Ah yes, typical "FOSS" project.It's rather disgusting that you intentionally sabotage the "community" version to not scale, but that's to be expected really.I'll say it again, GNU/Jihad against "open source" and all other forms of proprietary software - FREE SOFTWARE.