Post Aq4VpRH7osM4cNyLei by waltwooton@spartanburg.social
(DIR) More posts by waltwooton@spartanburg.social
(DIR) Post #Aq4TqkdR7rFv2iuFoe by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-14T11:25:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
When we ask if other creatures are “conscious” what I think we really want to know is this impossible question of what it would feel like to be a cat or a barnacle (or an eagle wheeling on a warm swell of air above our cities.) We can, to some degree, imagine what it might be like to inhabit the bodies of other living things, but to experience their minds? That is another matter.
(DIR) Post #Aq4TvpFvNCcEp1KQOu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-14T11:26:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
With close cousins we could imagine some process to match neuron to neuron and project some of the patterns of electrical activity from one mind to another. (Although the variation in function of just human minds makes this idea limited.) Perhaps, rather than trying to find analogous structures, we should just expand our minds. Continue to think with our own bodies but then expand our awareness to include the other. (and do we notice that in doing this, their minds incorporate ours?)
(DIR) Post #Aq4Udi1pbb759Gf5hg by noplasticshower@infosec.exchange
2025-01-14T11:34:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird sorry to jump in sideways, but you have read nagel, right? https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf
(DIR) Post #Aq4VpRH7osM4cNyLei by waltwooton@spartanburg.social
2025-01-14T11:47:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird See https://anniemurphypaul.com/books/the-extended-mind/, especially Part III: Thinking with Our Relationships.
(DIR) Post #Aq4W7F2m2CqvtZkTYm by illumniscate@mastodon.education
2025-01-14T11:50:36Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebirdThis's been my issue with comparative psychology for a while. It makes limited practical sense to try & measure intelligence through the adaptations of our senses & organs. We don't have wings, whiskers or gills. Conversely, saying that an owl is unintelligent because it wouldn't crack a nut or that "a dog has the IQ of a 5-year old human" shows the immaturity of our scientific thought. If a a human was to be magically turned into, say, a wolf, they'd likely perish quite quickly.
(DIR) Post #Aq4WQmrKX9qeH3iRzU by faassen@fosstodon.org
2025-01-14T11:54:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebirdA related term in philosophy is qualia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia
(DIR) Post #Aq4Z3IyTmIY8n4YR28 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-14T12:23:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@illumniscate “immaturity of our scientific thought” is an excellent way to describe it.
(DIR) Post #Aq4dMOH8h1XmY9deaG by cocoadog@mastodon.social
2025-01-14T13:11:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird There are so many cans of worms, so to speak, around the notion of putting oneself in another creature's shoes. We suck massively at it even with other humans. I suspect we vary a lot in our ability to conceive of minds different from our own, and that this compounds the problem. How can you have a discussion with me about our cognitive differences if the very notion of cognitive differences doesn't compute for me, because that's one of the differences we have in the first place?
(DIR) Post #Aq4fdcULIoldSh9pnk by bujold@dice.camp
2025-01-14T13:25:59Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@illumniscate @futurebird 📰 "Humans Fail at Basic Communicative Dance Tasks, are 'Unintelligent', Bee Scientists Find"
(DIR) Post #Aq4fdddb1tlP1gUjrc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-14T13:37:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bujold @illumniscate “She tried to give me directions to the flower.. but then just made noises & didn’t say anything! And she didn’t even bother to barf a little taste of the nectar for me so I have no idea if she was even talking about real flowers.” (bees assume everyone who is “doing things” is female, this was in response to a male scientist who was trying to get the bee to go to the blue dot for his bee IQ test.)“she is so huge, she must think very slowly.”
(DIR) Post #Aq4gTvmCpozSLDSOO0 by RufusJCooter@mstdn.social
2025-01-14T13:46:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird There's a really great bit in Pratchett's Equal Rites, where a character uses magic to cohabitate the body of an eagle (I think? a raptor of some sort, def), with... interesting results.Explores some of what you're getting at here, I think
(DIR) Post #Aq4hPpCXRJZgkCNbCy by billseitz@toolsforthought.social
2025-01-14T13:57:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @bujold @illumniscate perhaos ABI will help us
(DIR) Post #Aq4k5ZvsnXfJSacuYK by MedeaVanamonde@chaosfem.tw
2025-01-14T14:27:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird you are describing the self aware Biome