Post Aq2IfC5NkdVutQLPOq by llewelly@sauropods.win
(DIR) More posts by llewelly@sauropods.win
(DIR) Post #Aq1eYlfJ4afb2yWqGG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T02:41:09Z
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What group is more diverse?Plankton or Bugs?Are plankton just... sea bugs?
(DIR) Post #Aq1f4UATf9la2yEUnQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T02:46:52Z
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@tedpavlic Are you... are you saying ants are crabs now???
(DIR) Post #Aq1g1o5hEXLSvEHbyi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T02:57:35Z
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@tedpavlic Unless we are talking "true bugs" the "bugs" are also a kind of nebulous group defined more by size and "creeping and crawling" than anything else.
(DIR) Post #Aq1gmjPSSKd60uty9Q by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T03:06:04Z
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@inthehands @tedpavlic It looks like it... that is blowing my mind.
(DIR) Post #Aq1hz1oByVDeVRtlB2 by indigoparadox@mastodon.social
2025-01-13T03:19:30Z
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@futurebird @inthehands @tedpavlic It makes sense to me. Crabs have exoskeletons like ants but spiders are furry. 😍
(DIR) Post #Aq2Bqrat492v8OhKcK by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T08:54:09Z
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@futurebird some plankton are tiny arthropods. But there are many other kinds of plankton not closely related to arthropods (or to each other), diatoms, radiolarians, algae, cyanobacteria, so many more I don't know anything about.I don't know if anyone has done any equivalent to the "deathfog a dozen different species of trees, see how many new insects fall out, use that to estimate total insect diversity" experiments for plankton.
(DIR) Post #Aq2DiYrv0BjyeOpiWe by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:14:19Z
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@futurebird some of Haekel's fabulous drawings of radiolarians:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiolaria#/media/File:Haeckel_Stephoidea_edit.jpgmodern gif of radiolarian diversity:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiolaria#/media/File:Animation_of_radiolarian_diversity.gif#radiolarian#plankton
(DIR) Post #Aq2FzW6cj942ufvMDw by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:11:56Z
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@inthehands @indigoparadox @futurebird @tedpavlic setae , or "arthropod fuzz" occur in many, maybe even all, groups of arthropods; most (all?) crustaceans have sensory setae of various sorts, some crabs are remarkably fuzzy, krill use setae to capture microplankton, as do many other types of filter-feeding crustaceans. Annelids also have setae, though I don't know if those are homologous to arthopod setae.yeti crab:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwa_(crustacean)
(DIR) Post #Aq2FzXHIMxC8Y3vOUq by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:38:22Z
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@inthehands @indigoparadox @futurebird @tedpavlic another Haeckel, showing how fuzzy some copepods are:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copepod#/media/File:Haeckel_Copepoda.jpg
(DIR) Post #Aq2GRSZZSNLM40mvo0 by kechpaja@social.kechpaja.com
2025-01-13T09:42:53Z
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@llewelly @futurebird Why do we still have to kill creatures just to know that they exist?
(DIR) Post #Aq2GRTevPxDjQuIin2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:45:34Z
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@kechpaja @llewelly I was saddened by the insect deaths that are used to catalog species, however if you are proposing trying to just photograph them all ... well. We'd probably only know about half of the insects we do now. I assume most people who study insects like them and wouldn't kill a few 100 without it making good progress. And these death traps are nothing in comparison to the territory and environmental destruction that kills in the tens of millions.
(DIR) Post #Aq2GhC3OdpWrSrF19s by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:48:27Z
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@kechpaja @llewelly I've mostly made my peace with the "destructive" ways of those who study arthropods. Though I do feel sad still whenever I see dead bugs. It's the way they move, the things they do that make them so special. I do wish that part of "descriptions" in collection were videos in addition to samples and written descriptions. There should be videos of every creature doing all of their basic tasks. We should collect that too!
(DIR) Post #Aq2GieklQHhAlQDvFY by earthlightning@sfba.social
2025-01-13T09:46:05Z
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@llewelly @futurebird Wikipedia is telling me that jellyfish are plankton.I may need to go lie down.
(DIR) Post #Aq2GpffUQ4whd26LvE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:50:00Z
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@earthlightning @llewelly "being plankton" is about who you hang out with and how large you are... not *what* you are. If you were tiny and hung out in the ocean with all the little living things that travel in groups you too would be "plankton"
(DIR) Post #Aq2GqtJTAqUQEkNq9Q by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:50:05Z
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@futurebird @kechpaja I think the difficulty of doing such a survey without killing the insects has changed enormously since the 1980s (when Terry Erwin did the earliest studies.) Live insects are orders of magnitude easier to photograph precisely than they were back then. The focus stacking that makes so much detail visible on modern insect photos was a hugely time consuming, chemical-intensive process in the days of chemical film photography.
(DIR) Post #Aq2HAEWMY0EBVwdZD6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:53:40Z
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@dalias @kechpaja @llewelly There are bugs you'll never find if you just keep exposing different zone of the leaf litter and trees to light. These arthropods are *only* found when you do a destructive survey. IDK how to get around that.That said, I do not have the expertise to say if destructive surveys are done too often, but I do think doing them on occasion can't be avoided.
(DIR) Post #Aq2HQVv3d2Vm6ix2Ho by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T09:56:38Z
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@dalias @kechpaja @llewelly Also, and I didn't believe this until I got serious about learning to identify ants, even the very best photographs do not have the detail of a pinned specimen. This is because we are talking about a very complex three-dimensional form. You have a few excellent macro photos but not one of them lets you see the mandibles from behind, or the leg at the angle required. I now "get" why a holotype has to be a dead bug. Because you often need to go back and look again.
(DIR) Post #Aq2HwespprwJAyEu1I by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T10:02:27Z
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@dalias @kechpaja @llewelly *grumbling*we willl see I supposeBut don't you need the bug to be dead to make that kind of model in the first place?Trying to get insects to hold still so they can be documented goes way back.... including this incident in 1665 where Hooke got an ant drunk. https://sauropods.win/@futurebird/111354626144207007I hope no one ever dips me in brandy so they can draw me under over-bright harsh lights...
(DIR) Post #Aq2IfC5NkdVutQLPOq by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T10:10:31Z
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@futurebird @earthlightning seems to me there's a huge range of animals that can swim against some currents, but not others, depending on current strength, and areas of the ocean ("Furious fifties") where extremely strong currents are normal, making some relatively large animals effectively planktonic in that area, when they would be nektonic in calmer areas of ocean. Further, many traditionally planktonic creatures do twice-daily vertical migrations of hundreds of meters.
(DIR) Post #Aq2JpzprjnF42Tnkum by llewelly@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T10:23:09Z
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@dalias @futurebird @kechpaja I'd like to know how practical it would be to do thousand-angle photogrammetry with *every* insect in a huge tree that has tens of thousands of insects in it, and then go on to do it for dozens trees, on the budget of a taxonomist, rather than a techno fantasy budget. (I've read microscopic photogrammetry is now being used a lot in mite taxonomy, but they seem not to have the kinds of rigs that can do it fast enough to avoid having to immobilize the specimens.)
(DIR) Post #Aq2JuyhNON3NxdCq5A by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2025-01-13T10:24:32Z
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@futurebird @dalias @kechpaja @llewelly Or, you get a load of smaller ants to carry tiny cameras and take photos from a variety of different angles.Note: This does not work for the smallest ants.
(DIR) Post #Aq2Kwp3CKmHcZTr9bU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-01-13T10:36:05Z
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@dalias @llewelly @kechpaja Could one design a box that could be clamped over a small creature and it would do the lighting and photos from all angles all in one go?Or a box one could drop an insect into that would do such a multi-angle, perfectly lighted scan?When I'm doing wild ant photography I tend to set up some bait and light it well, then hope the ants move into focus.
(DIR) Post #Aq2ODaUU1KZqCSIwvQ by mmby@mastodon.social
2025-01-13T11:12:40Z
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@futurebird @dalias @llewelly @kechpaja what kind of resolution do you need? what is the smallest feature you need to be able to distinguish?
(DIR) Post #Aq2RDl3f1ylopvX1Bg by Gorfram@beige.party
2025-01-13T11:46:22Z
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@futurebird @earthlightning @llewelly #LifeGoals
(DIR) Post #Aq2UvCI1xXVjboer0i by plsik@mastodon.social
2025-01-13T12:27:43Z
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@futurebird @dalias @kechpaja @llewelly It's an interesting example. The first thing that comes to my mind as a Buddhist (I have taken a vow not to harm sentient beings) is whether it is necessary. I will kill a tick that has already burrowed into my skin. But I don't kill a mosquito that wants to bite me. Because it's not necessary. Is it necessary to document all these insects as quickly as possible, even at the cost of killing them?