Post ApVtPm4HTQUlvtHcem by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #ApVhdEkiwBXlD8mxQe by hearthmoon@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T16:43:00.300426Z
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I've been reading postmodern philosophy, asking how we got to a place where putting serial rapists in women's prisons is progressive. I'm reaching the conclusion that gender ideology is NOT an expression of postmodern philosophy and is not compatible with it. I'm open to debating the issues (or changing my mind) if others think differently.
(DIR) Post #ApVhdFFZ5WDIknDaV6 by polarisera@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T16:44:51.293060Z
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@hearthmoon You forgot the marxist theory of oppression, that helps the capitalists get richer and the students get stupider.
(DIR) Post #ApVqKCteVrt7XXxveK by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:22:17.203810Z
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@hearthmoon Not exclusively.Been telling people for a while now, high school and college social history textbooks go into depth about the cultural shifts of the 60's/70's. They discuss racism, the war, etc at lenghth, but when it comes to feminism, it's limited to a discussion, usually of he said/she said rape accusations.People are taught discriminating on the basis of race is a real thing but discriminating on the basis of sex is just made up.You have to look to certain state boards which censor textbooks for that (and they don't lean to the left). POMO was favored by CIA tho, because it destroyed other philosophies. It sounds reasonable, until it's applied.
(DIR) Post #ApVqfZnmXxU4f2PRxI by KeepTakingTheSoma@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:25:58.575446Z
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@LostInCalifornia @hearthmoon There are a few interesting books about this. It's been going on for a while. In the UK too, but not quite as explicitly.
(DIR) Post #ApVrBSStMQTNAkqBN2 by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:31:54.584631Z
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@KeepTakingTheSoma @hearthmoon We have a long history of a certain state board with a large market base fighting to make education righteous and conservative. Started with fights over evolution, and then spread its wings.Couple that with some recent liberal initiatives, you can see why we're in a real mess.
(DIR) Post #ApVsgUb9ZyKGih4E2y by hearthmoon@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:36:32.759400Z
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@LostInCalifornia It's just that, despite hysterical accusations of "biological essentialism" leveled at gender critical feminists (and biologists) for insisting on a stable definition of sex, the belief in an inner "gender identity" is also essentialist. It's postmodern in the sense that, at least on a sociological level, gender identity is unstable and undefined, but it is an innate essence. Gender identity is foundational to the individual ("you're literally killing me with your invalidation!!!"), yet it is immune to interrogation. It cannot be deconstructed.
(DIR) Post #ApVsgVjhLgksFU4Z0K by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:48:42.710739Z
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@hearthmoon Well, like most paraphilias its based in the id.I'm not sure gender identity is unstable and undefined. I tried very hard, once upon a time to tell people I wasn't a "lady", but then people started pointing out all the ladylike things I did.The original intent was to redefine gender roles, and I think there is an underlying assumption gender roles are based in nature. (Some are but we don't know where the line is.)
(DIR) Post #ApVt2oS8RPScfVUZ8a by hearthmoon@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:52:33.299121Z
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@LostInCalifornia Most autogynephilic men have a stable definition of gender identity based on sex stereotypes, but that's not everyone who proclaims a "gender identity." A single example, like Alex Drummond, a "lady" who sports a beard, destabilizes the definition.
(DIR) Post #ApVtPm4HTQUlvtHcem by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T18:56:54.371287Z
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@hearthmoon Well, that's true. The sense of "gender identity" being pushed doesn't have an objective definition, since it's based on what makes a man's dick hard.
(DIR) Post #ApVxM3u1cfmPu6yISm by hearthmoon@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T19:40:56.739372Z
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@LostInCalifornia "No debate!" "My existence (i.e. gender identity) is not up for debate!" How is that pomo? How is that de-constructionist? How is it even within the bounds of philosophical discipline? The existentialists might dismiss the question of existence as unanswerable, but even they wouldn't call it taboo.
(DIR) Post #ApVxwmX3AXM6kEjbHM by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T19:47:41.590728Z
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@hearthmoon It's definitely not deconstructionist. Deconstruction is figuring out what the definitions of a social contract are and examining what those definitions mean. "No debate" says don't look at my definitions and don't disagree with me about what they mean.I agree it's not exclusively down to POMO. POMO opened a door tho. None of this is honest is my point. None of it.
(DIR) Post #ApW2zF09csefcCofmC by hearthmoon@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T19:59:26.218402Z
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@LostInCalifornia What it boils down to, is that patriarchy is unsupportable within any framework it sets for itself, even the non-framework framework of deconstruction.
(DIR) Post #ApW33GnMtmyOKwkzYW by LostInCalifornia@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T20:44:53.862478Z
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@hearthmoon nicely put.
(DIR) Post #ApWDWetVNSrF1BHOt6 by Klimsu@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T22:28:22.536765Z
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@hearthmoon Not pure postmodernism. That was about dismantling discourses and identifying power-knowledge and so on. With postmodernism, that's all that could be done. Once you had the language, the discourses etc. on the floor, the philosophy offered no solution. To do something with it, well, that would create a discourse. It was a sort of playful philosophy in a way.But my understanding is that gender ideology came out of post-postmodernist thought. What some call post modernism "applied." Post-post took the concepts and applied them in various areas - post-colonial, gender, intersectionality, fat studies and so on.
(DIR) Post #ApWDWgD2UK4r63QVyS by KeepTakingTheSoma@spinster.xyz
2024-12-28T22:40:46.622255Z
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@Klimsu @hearthmoon It was a form of deconstruction. David Lodge puts it very well in his novel Small World - it's the last intellectual thrill left, like sawing off the branch you're sitting on.
(DIR) Post #ApWXEhFNYEybBYIaX2 by ninapaley@spinster.xyz
2024-12-29T02:23:06.263890Z
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@hearthmoon Real postmodernism would have been able to put gender ideology to bed by simply analyzing its power dynamics. It's so obvious men gain more power over women via genderism, an old-fashioned postmodern analysis would make that obvious. So yeah, whatever "postmodernism" means today, isn't what it meant originally. Just like "feminism" for that matter.