Post AoCc4GWmFNEPx62fLM by cocolinofan@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by cocolinofan@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AoC973ftapEMHtHpKK by BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
2024-11-19T08:24:49Z
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I think the worst thing to ever come out of the Linux kernel project is "We don't break user space" not because it's a bad goal for the kernel, but because people who don't understand the context of the idea apply it to places where it doesn't at all fit, i.e Xorg to Wayland
(DIR) Post #AoC9VHiJ33cYmJxxc8 by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T08:30:49.682362Z
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@BrodieOnLinux most of wayland hate actually comes from it breaking shit afaik. It's just human emotion really. I ditched it after a year of using it after it made my games lag in a weird way. Havent switched back since.
(DIR) Post #AoC9oGLeLhqo2tPzCy by BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
2024-11-19T08:33:34Z
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@teto There's very few cases where things remain fundamentally broken. There are certainly pieces of software written 15 years ago that do not work properly on Wayland but there are very few workloads that I can think of that are not possible, mostly issues with edge cases. Accessibility support is the one major area where there are legitimate blockers for people still
(DIR) Post #AoCAhWqGj80p7y5oa8 by rodlie@mastodon.social
2024-11-19T08:42:52Z
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@BrodieOnLinux I don't care about the xorg vs. wayland crap/drama/whatever (imho they both suck). But to wayland's credit they kinda don't break user space as they provide xwayland 😉 (if they didn't the transition would be a no-go/impossible).
(DIR) Post #AoCDDNOjZiZZ0oWliy by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2024-11-19T09:10:13Z
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@BrodieOnLinux what? You never want to break user space just like you don't want to break APIs all the time.
(DIR) Post #AoCDOuWakchMwEhdjs by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T09:14:31.841425Z
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@BrodieOnLinux If anything it is the other way around, Linux-based OSes are not more popular because of the constant barrage of API breakages on basic building block libraries such as GTK. Why do you think containers (flatpak, snaps, docker, etc) exist? it is to warehouse dependencies along with applications to avoid API breakages.Wayland's nonsensical stagnation issue has nothing to do with API breakage but with the misunderstood idea that additional protocols have to be absolutely perfect from day one leading to committee decision paralysis.
(DIR) Post #AoCDqjRbXcfqgIdVxI by GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.exchange
2024-11-19T09:18:22Z
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@BrodieOnLinux oh come on this is just shilling. Display protocols ARE userspace though they're not related to the Linux kernel itself.
(DIR) Post #AoCE3mJmAU6bMICBZQ by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T09:21:54.907260Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@teto @BrodieOnLinux Wayland doesn't break things, its problems arise mainly due to unimplemented functionality or bugs in the compositor implementation of the existing functionality.Wayland (protocol) is often confused with X.org (X11 Display server).X11 = Protocol (Language: IE: English)Wayland = Protocol (Language: IE French)X.org = X11 Display server implementation (A person speaking English)labwc, wayfire, hyprland, sway, mutter, kwin = Wayland compositors (Persons speaking French)The issues in "Wayland" are due to bugs in the compositor/s and or due lack of functionality in the "wayland" protocol or the compositor/s.
(DIR) Post #AoCEjQb5Je889g9T1M by BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
2024-11-19T09:27:17Z
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@GolfNovemberUniform Well yeah they are in userspace, but you've demonstrated my point exactly. Don't break userspace is only applicable to the kernel
(DIR) Post #AoCFVLWXTuoIJvsHui by charliebrownau@poa.st
2024-11-19T09:38:06.176028Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux GdayI found if I stick withDebian 11 or Devuan based on Debian 11stick with GTK2 appsuse appimages to manually updateand not be so keen to update everythingLinux runs more stable with less issuesIm not using any program withPythonRustDotnetGTK4FlatpakSnapGood example is hexchatit worksI find no legit reason to swap or change to something elseIm using an older outdated Libreoffice appimageas it does everything ill ever needand is less bloated then the apt installed ones
(DIR) Post #AoCFmJ25zpXRW9ipW4 by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T09:41:09.871495Z
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@charliebrownau @BrodieOnLinux I use Debian 11 on my home server too, the only think I update is the kernel (I always run latest stable) and like you I use apps with containers, appimages, flatpaks or VMs and it is GOAT.
(DIR) Post #AoCFrlTPgMDvAl6Q1Q by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T09:42:07.252231Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux I dont really care for the reason when I know the solution is as easy as switching from KDE Wayland to KDE X11 session. I dont want to debug this nonsense nor analyze it. I just want to play my proton games in peace
(DIR) Post #AoCGEl1NWt6QQkxAIq by charliebrownau@poa.st
2024-11-19T09:46:18.431147Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux I was considering looking into containers or some sort of pre writtern script fileusing podman or something similarthat doesnt 'need' SubvertDand I can actually download the 'container' as a offline fileAs Ill be doing Home Automation and CCTV next yearespecially for farms and off-grid 12v situationsthus i wont want the 'require' internet, cloud, cell service or 'apps'
(DIR) Post #AoCHcaQAgxa0SWTbBg by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T10:01:49.049828Z
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@charliebrownau @BrodieOnLinux I know you're not a fan of systemd, but it does do something that is very important and that other init systems don't do or don't do as well, and it is "resource tracking" It can track processes and their resources via cgroups, can for example auto restart things based on whatever criteria you specify. You can also adjust OOM policies and keep critical services running no matter what.This is one of the reasons systemd got so popular so fast.I understand the dislike because initially it feels "opaque", I have been there.
(DIR) Post #AoCI620nBoFwQae78q by charliebrownau@poa.st
2024-11-19T10:07:08.463565Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux It was a weapon by designSystemDCSDWaylandPipewireand with the lack of group protectionism and strong leadershipthey allowed the subversion to happenI expect BSD to get ruined by the same timeline path also
(DIR) Post #AoCJVXUpMsinGjQCdU by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T10:22:57.425698Z
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@charliebrownau @BrodieOnLinux CSD:Is a problem caused by GNOME (The literal spawn of satan) and has no justification. Nothing the GNOME trannies do has justification, they set the Linux desktop back 10 years. Don't use GNOME if you do not want to suffer from CSD.systemd:A bunch of scripts to run services is spaghetti, I have been maintaining such spaghetti professionally for decades and I am glad it is over, but to each one its thing, if you like spaghetti you are free, and I'm happy for you.Wayland:This is a necessary thing that has been implemented in the worst way possible, an authentic IT fiasco only comparable to IPv6.Pipewire:I honestly do not understand why people complain about it, pipewire is miles better than pulseaudio ever was while retaining compatibility with it. This is what wayland should have strive for.The functionality in systemd, wayland and pipewire is necessary, if we didn't have these we would have to make similar components to provide with the functionality.
(DIR) Post #AoCKhssFoN3104pUXY by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T10:36:23.444291Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux You're preaching to the convert, I'm X11 through and through.I do not oppose wayland... once is ready, ATM is a fucking mess not worth of any serious consideration for anything serious save for very specific environments such as kiosks or embedded devices.
(DIR) Post #AoCLwS45rw6Q9RsTXk by HonkHonkBoom@poa.st
2024-11-19T10:50:13.690514Z
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@PalePimp @teto @BrodieOnLinux Is there some other advantages to Wayland, or is this just because nobody could figure out HDR and VRR under X11? (very possible i have no idea what im talking about.. never fought with wayland yet)
(DIR) Post #AoCMVrDuK5BQJWLo5A by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T10:56:36.571296Z
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@HonkHonkBoom @BrodieOnLinux @PalePimp HDR, resolutions above 4k and VR are kind of the main reason why it"s being pushed now afaik
(DIR) Post #AoCNAvQLbrvHDNkgwi by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:04:02.525038Z
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@HonkHonkBoom @teto @BrodieOnLinux X.org/X11 works really well today but the internal architecture is very dated in the sense that it was designed for a very different set of devices from what we have today.Adding new functionality to X11 without breaking it is doable but very, very difficult, and minor seemingly innocent changes to X.org cause lots of unintended problems that break applications. X.org/X11 works but it is a Rube Golberg machine.It became apparent that a new architecture was required to move forward and keep the display modern taking advantage of new tech. For that a new revision of the display protocol was required an X12 so to speak, this is Wayland.This is hard to explain "because language" Wayland as a protocol is fine and it is a great design, it has its flaws but nothing that can't be addressed and like other display tech Vulkan, OpenGL can be extended and improved.The issue is the implementation, the people who designed Wayland did design a display protocol, not a Desktop implementation (a compositor). They didn't write an X.org nor addressed issues like how to interact with the user, they left that to the people making wayland compositors.In the X11 world X.org is both the implementation of reference and the basis for all of the Desktop interactions, X.org manages your display and a Window Manager on top manages your application windows, meaning that changes in X.org benefit all the window managers running on top of it.In the Wayland world the compositor does manage the display and the windows. So when you add functionality to Gnome Wayland that functionality doesn't reach Kwin or labwc or sway or any other compositor, you end with siloed implementations.
(DIR) Post #AoCNhhdNttjK0FTnNY by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:09:58.337823Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom There is no specific reason but a multitude of, taking advantage of new tech without having to re-do a house of cards (X.org/X11) each time is one of them, security (often misunderstood) is another, X11's design is really old and weak on some aspects due to its heritage.
(DIR) Post #AoCOFXTgAWYsLh4fWi by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T11:16:04.037862Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom all I hope is that valve kicks their asses the second they fuck something up on steam os when it inevitably switches to wayland full time
(DIR) Post #AoCOQUuQ3kOvZFo6yW by MK2boogaloo@lab.nyanide.com
2024-11-19T11:17:58.806711Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom @PalePimp Wayland sucks, it will never replace X11
(DIR) Post #AoCOXVyMVH1YtRzu0u by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T11:19:18.927715Z
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@MK2boogaloo @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom @PalePimp im not a developer, I just know none of them want to touch x11 anymore and thats a problem
(DIR) Post #AoCObdflogGNvvGfZo by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:20:04.883497Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom The Steam Deck is already wayland already I think (somebody correct me if wrong), when in big screen mode the games are running through gamescope which is wayland-based.I'm not entirely sure about what is going on with the desktop though.Valve is already pushing to break the protocol stagnation problem (Caused by the most part by the GNOME tranny saboteurs over the years)An inflection point will be reached soon with the Cosmic desktop, Cosmic aims to replace GNOME as a better GNOME than GNOME, Cosmic is wayland only.
(DIR) Post #AoCOelaUqTJfLkICI4 by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:20:38.849777Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom The idea of Wayland is not to replace X11, it runs alongside it.
(DIR) Post #AoCOi0D2wEzNZDro92 by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T11:21:12.361633Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom they use wayland for HDR reasons I think when in big picture via xwayland or smth but the desktop is x11. I'm impressed valves steam os maintainers havent lost their minds yet
(DIR) Post #AoCOvUpaOoYOIqKOHY by MK2boogaloo@lab.nyanide.com
2024-11-19T11:23:34.398655Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom @PalePimp it's fine, that means it's perfect already.
(DIR) Post #AoCOxKF0k92A2Q5n6G by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:23:59.649516Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom HDR is one part of the puzzle, not the only one, input lag is another, wayland's design allow for much lower input lag than X11. Again wayland is designed around modern +2010's hardware assumptions, X11 uses +1980's assumptions.
(DIR) Post #AoCOxerK5PYzz2Afaq by MK2boogaloo@lab.nyanide.com
2024-11-19T11:23:59.569052Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@PalePimp @teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom Wayland is so niggerish that it wanted to chase after X11.
(DIR) Post #AoCPeTIiw0RSaZP1lo by charliebrownau@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:31:48.226922Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux Gnome 2 was great back in the dayYet againNo group protectinismNo strong leadersMoney and subverison ruined itJust like everythingLack of protectionismLack of Strong moral upstanding principle leadersMoney, blackmail and subverisonGovermentTechMainstreammediaschoolsindustrymanfactoringentertainmentlinuxfossconstructionengineeringetcIts got the same problemsbecause its got the same taticsand same ((( People )))The guy that pushed for ((( SystemD))) ended up leaving and going to ((( Microsoft)))Im sure he didn't do it all on ((( PURPOSE )))
(DIR) Post #AoCPsKqRAgoQPsma4u by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:34:18.309720Z
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@charliebrownau @BrodieOnLinux The "people" problem is the same everywhere, companies treat employees like "resources" and not like people, so people come and go constantly, what makes a company is not the building or the money in the bank, is the people, so when you change all the people the company changes completely and products and procedures start not being the same or held to the same quality standards.
(DIR) Post #AoCPvIZ66UGuDO5Kb2 by teto@cawfee.club
2024-11-19T11:34:48.758077Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom we'll need a new one in 2040 when wayland is outdated (and prob still not finished)
(DIR) Post #AoCQEIjRhuUqEbzEH2 by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:38:16.809066Z
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@teto @BrodieOnLinux @HonkHonkBoom It is very possible.
(DIR) Post #AoCQOvYaDENDXkyMKm by charliebrownau@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:40:11.584991Z
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@PalePimp @BrodieOnLinux I am seeing aspects of Australian society rapidly decling since the International PlandemicRetail chainsBanksCorporationsdeliveryPost officeall decline as White straight men are no longer a majority in our own nationHard WorkFairnessTruthHonestityis no longer a universal shared value system in Australiaonce the majority of hard working honest White straight menno longer dominate working societyThe amount of weak soy snorting softcocks, gays, vegans and women is increasing at a depressing rapid speedBeing a victim is celebrated more then hard work , tryingand overcoming hurdlesEven in my gated communityI am the only one with- Folding solar panel- CB Radio- AM/FM/SW radio- Candles- outside gas bbq- canned foodIts only getting worse with the injection of automation with ((( AI )))182 nations have signed up to ((( Agenda 21 2030)))We only have 6 years to prepare, research, decouple from the state and leave the International Liberal democracy enriched cities for the outback rugged landscapeJust the last few weeks the (((( MAD ))) bill failedso they are going via the backdoor with((( DIGITAL ID ))) for 16+ people on the internetKosher one nation wont be 'allow'ed to be in powernor will any of the corporations known as 'parties' stop it
(DIR) Post #AoCQZSJbGxOE2Nz78i by PalePimp@poa.st
2024-11-19T11:42:05.905264Z
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@charliebrownau @BrodieOnLinux >> I am seeing aspects of Australian society rapidly decling since the International PlandemicIt is the same across the entire west, in every single country under the influence of the empire.
(DIR) Post #AoCZf38Sha01GkW7aC by BasiqueEvangelist@mstdn.social
2024-11-19T13:23:55Z
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@BrodieOnLinux huh? "We don't break userspace" is just kernel for "We always provide backwards compatibility", which is important for display protocols, no?
(DIR) Post #AoCc4GWmFNEPx62fLM by cocolinofan@mastodon.social
2024-11-19T13:50:51Z
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@BrodieOnLinux @GolfNovemberUniform Then how is it called when libraries update and break my programs?