Post AnysteXpafA6GIca8G by J@cawfee.club
(DIR) More posts by J@cawfee.club
(DIR) Post #AnyOhWBVqjMGEZTnVo by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:15:10.135733Z
7 likes, 6 repeats
I feel like a lot of people will believe anything to free themselves from responsibility for their actions. They’ll act like their brain is some distant commander full of unpliable mysteries dragging them through life like the wind drags a leaf; when in reality your emotions are your choice, your actions are your choice, and your words are your choice, and you can only change yourself by choosing them.
(DIR) Post #AnyOz5X7g4i0mwxvt2 by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:18:20.703287Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden To put anything into words requires constructing a story and you're always going to be the protagonist of your own story. Good things are done by you and evil things are done to you.There's no univocal relationship between events as they happen and the story you tell, at best there's an impression, so it's not surprising. Learning to tell the story in reverse can show people where they go wrong, though.
(DIR) Post #AnyP0rNhGWWrTZOxSy by mischievoustomato@mitra.taihou.website
2024-11-12T17:18:30.512981Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
and her body my choice @hidden
(DIR) Post #AnyP2Ad5BdxtSkDtC4 by kf01@breastmilk.club
2024-11-12T17:18:55.343172Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden this sounds like something my ex would text me at 2 AM along with some tarot reading
(DIR) Post #AnyP7XKqC8EhKbFWUa by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:19:52.601647Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kf01 All women are the same
(DIR) Post #AnyPCMXxjVOPJsgixM by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-11-12T17:20:44.865335Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden > emotions your choice???
(DIR) Post #AnyPOCvlJMYmyFT5xQ by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:22:52.785763Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@snacks @hidden i was about to say this also
(DIR) Post #AnyPTx4FCesFVeAtbU by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:23:55.510317Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@snacks @hidden idk i can choose to name certain feelings different ways but the feelings themselves are not really up to me
(DIR) Post #AnyPeyHf1MQsT2hkq8 by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-11-12T17:25:55.793975Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@une @hidden you can indirectly influence them by choosing not to act on them and hoping they'll get weaker, but that's about it in many cases
(DIR) Post #AnyPwJ7umUNo27PeOe by kf01@breastmilk.club
2024-11-12T17:29:03.737089Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden hive mind
(DIR) Post #AnyQ1cd9h3rHyHYkGe by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T17:30:00.964256Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@snacks @hidden @une it's possible to exert a good deal more control than you'd think, the only thing is you can't dictate your emotions or control them through force. You have to reason with yourself.
(DIR) Post #AnyQ4JGw7kJWnjRrJw by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-11-12T17:30:30.656219Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une doesn't always work
(DIR) Post #AnyQ5KPdMzhkcx0C7k by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T17:30:40.667047Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @kf01 eh, 90% maybe. 95% tops
(DIR) Post #AnyQCFdzUt5pri1DYu by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T17:31:55.816735Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@snacks @hidden @une but it does sometimes. Usually when it doesn't it's because there's something you're not aware of you need to acknowledge. Only then can you negotiate with it.
(DIR) Post #AnyR6x59BOMonol2OW by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:42:10.654748Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @une @snacks Ajax the wise
(DIR) Post #AnyR9AKosdJ4U68zLM by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:42:34.663430Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kf01 @hidden Remake of Prototype games where it's women destroying New York instead of zombie hives.
(DIR) Post #AnyRFgHb0kmHJ5k7PM by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T17:43:45.704287Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @une @snacks
(DIR) Post #AnyRHxsgYJE2SxBEIK by eemmaa@girlboss.gaslight.love
2024-11-12T17:44:08.753327Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@snacks @hidden they are autistic
(DIR) Post #AnyRhtlWTawREOCDNQ by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:48:51.152722Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @snacks you're still having emotions though that you have to reason with
(DIR) Post #AnyRmDRFH5xjP6lnyi by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:49:38.148268Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @snacks further than that, the reasoning is contingent on the emotions themselves, so it seems more like a negotiation between emotions and reason rather than anything resembling control
(DIR) Post #AnyS1R0H7fITopPb04 by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:52:23.112857Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@une @cajax @hidden @snacks You should just exterminate both emotions and reasoning and see what's left.
(DIR) Post #AnyS1jfLjgqdhQleWO by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:52:27.170907Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@une @cajax @snacks You can just let them go as they pop up, it’s thoroughly unsatisfactory though of course
(DIR) Post #AnyS8msaBe5hh1JtJo by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:53:42.355737Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@J Maybe I make a story where everything is my fault, because that’s easier to cope with than a story where I’m impotent against life
(DIR) Post #AnySHBl9ZCiXAqqoZU by kf01@breastmilk.club
2024-11-12T17:55:15.389416Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden nigga just play Parasite Eve
(DIR) Post #AnySKeupcbCyT8250S by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T17:55:51.881124Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kf01 @hidden idk what that is
(DIR) Post #AnyShoB5LprTr5fp4K by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:00:02.391677Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@J @cajax @hidden @snacks okay when I become enlightened I'll let you know what's left
(DIR) Post #AnySiXN1KJ9A18bUQ4 by kf01@breastmilk.club
2024-11-12T18:00:11.787036Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden my favorite PSX game or all time
(DIR) Post #AnySknNukx30GS6BFY by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:00:34.642030Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@une @cajax @hidden @snacks Good.
(DIR) Post #AnySo28cMPF4tDUIoS by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:01:10.291139Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @cajax @snacks ok, but you're still having emotions at that point, i fear
(DIR) Post #AnyT2lJrAril4SlfaS by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:03:49.987597Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kf01 @hidden I'll think about playing it if I ever get a computer that can emulate again but I'll probably forget.
(DIR) Post #AnyT4fTrqvqHXgMKZc by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:04:10.780705Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@une @cajax @snacks I feel like that’s just semantics
(DIR) Post #AnyT8ryhKWzVSamcj2 by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:04:55.639512Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @une @cajax @snacks Tfw having emotions and not having emotions is the same thing.
(DIR) Post #AnyTKfluXRhj4uQkQC by kf01@breastmilk.club
2024-11-12T18:07:05.203101Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden its ok
(DIR) Post #AnyTS8Vc5om4ERMlnc by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:08:24.761834Z
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@hidden @cajax @snacks i don't think i can argue with that. i just think the distinction is important
(DIR) Post #AnyTcfAbVwyCQNYiDA by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:10:19.241802Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @cajax @snacks @une I never mentioned not having emotions. Just that you choose them, which is true imo. They come from your body, they are your sensations, you can train yourself into them and out of them with a variety of techniques. You can detach from them or play with them or just let them come and go. A narrow interpretation of me meaning you can just choose to always have no emotions and always do the right thing is uncharitable, imo. Similar to people who argue free will doesn’t exist because they can’t literally control themselves like they control a video game character, it’s far more complex than that, but in the grand scheme of things we choose precisely what we are. Free will is a skill.
(DIR) Post #AnyU6r5LmJ4q4BUwvA by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:15:46.485734Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @cajax @snacks @une I think of them more like phenomena that arise. I can control them in the sense that I can dismiss them and act however I like as an adult, usually, but I can't control their arising or dissolution
(DIR) Post #AnyV2ERfbBRD1SIV2u by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:26:09.284084Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@J @cajax @snacks @une I find that my emotions arise because a part of me wants them to. Of course I want to get angry when I’m treated poorly. And of course I can choose to let that anger pass when it’s not useful. I think that’s healthy. An example of an emotion you would want to get rid of would be a fear that arises from intimacy for example, because maybe it cripples your closest friendships. In that case it’s possible to uproot it at the source over time, both in the moment and outside of it. It requires a great deal of humility and a flexible ego though, which imo is why hinduism and buddhism and daoism and other similar approaches can be such a significant way to change a person’s life, so long as they have the will. It’s also why modern shit like jungianism misses the mark. Flexibility is the most important aspect, and it requires non attachment or non desire or raw humility.
(DIR) Post #AnyVQSHJorcUsJ0RRQ by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:30:30.995335Z
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@hidden @cajax @snacks @une For me, it's more like someone says something slightly irritating to me and then, from the ether, time briefly expands into an eternity of homocidal mania and despair, before abruptly compressing back into a little eye twitch, and then I say "Oh really? That's interesting" then I go on with my day.Similarly with positive emotion but that's more embarrassing.
(DIR) Post #AnyWACCPvuniKMWZXM by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T18:38:47.914083Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @J @une @snacks how do you think jung missed the mark?
(DIR) Post #AnyX3mWmZAdyvQYUhk by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:48:50.243012Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks She articulated it in a confusing way but I think it's because Jung takes consciousness (in its normative state) as the foundation and offers no solutions to its problems, just insights into how it works as a machine, and out of that how you can achieve some desirable results, whereas the Eastern religions all have some aim for the dissolution of the self into a greater, more meaningful thing, and holistic practices for attaining that.
(DIR) Post #AnyXLCJfwDsPpWjHDU by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T18:51:57.868738Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden @une @snacks ah. I don't think Jung lacks that, honestly, he just leaves it ambiguous because his audience is post-enlightenment scientific thinkers, who'd balk at such things. There's a LOT of stuff that Jung does that you have to read between the lines for.
(DIR) Post #AnyXSYnCloRdZA3IYK by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:53:18.718812Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks You give Jung way too much credit for his ambiguous writing. His style is the same style as every other German philosopher, they double speak because they want the material to be inherently profound.
(DIR) Post #AnyXZX9TGkwUVJnBEe by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T18:54:34.390133Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @J @une @snacks My understanding of Jung is that he views the end goal of being a life where you continuously have periods of personal revelation to sort of “update” and clean your identity and ego. I think a better approach is to have as flexible an ego as possible, and to identify with little, so that you can dynamically respond to every context that comes up. I believe this is how genuine enlightened people and sages live.I admit that my interpretation of Jung could be wrong though. I like him a lot either way
(DIR) Post #AnyXlB0DRgXTHh0z32 by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T18:56:41.077649Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden @une @snacks lol even if it's something I projected, I still see a lot of value there. In a few words I'd say it's like... he values realizing that you as a person aren't really separate from everyone else, you're a single facet of a much larger thing.
(DIR) Post #AnyYMS1t6Q22o6ZS08 by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T19:03:25.192258Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @J @une @snacks I don't know it's possible for me to ever say you're right or wrong, Jung's way too complicated. I just think I see different things from you. When you get deep into Jung, at least for me, that "flexible ego" thing is exactly how I started seeing it.Like, you can have a certain trait, like a short temper for example, but you realize that it's just an aspect of your internal mental world that you can identify with or regard as just a feature of your "landscape." It's something shared by many many other people, and in that way it's not really "you", but you can apply the wisdom of people who have had to deal with the same kind of thing before to your own problems.He says a lot of things out of nowhere, like, "when you realize who you really are, all of this will be obvious." And these phrases stick out, and they're confusing. I think with passages like that he's hinting at something very deep with plausible deniability that he meant it as anything other than, in this example, "knowing who you really are" is just knowing your own internal landscape, and not... something else. I don't know, honestly, I just have a feeling there's a lot of other stuff there you can't really see unless you're ready for it.
(DIR) Post #AnyYU8EQastTiq6BdI by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T19:04:48.391212Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @J @snacks @une And I'd need to go back through his stuff and extract quotations to really make a stronger case than this lol. I don't know that I'm capable of it tbh.
(DIR) Post #AnyYnHHfA7mBIbk1yK by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T19:08:16.199475Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @J @une @snacks Lol don’t worry about it, his writing is a mess. If that flexible ego stuff that’s what you got out if it then it’s good enough imo. J’s interpretation of my critique is true as well, but I can’t hold it against Jung personally
(DIR) Post #AnyahPBB5uNhxP2Ggq by cine@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T19:29:36.487109Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @cajax @J @snacks @une > to identify with littleLiterally me. Once I'm enlightened I will be the most obnoxious mf about it. Just you wait.guy_talking_about_egoless_people_on_the driver's_seat.mp4
(DIR) Post #Anyam37EYOLoyZPBWi by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T19:30:26.969758Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@cine @J @hidden @une @snacks I have like 500 times less of an ego than you
(DIR) Post #Anyb1W9AtkizMIgmC8 by cine@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T19:33:14.777583Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @J @hidden @une @snacks You're probably right. I never said I was egoless, just that I find it hard to identify with anything.
(DIR) Post #AnycjdRPExR0g0ojVQ by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T19:52:25.685842Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks I see Jung as laying the groundwork for how lower principalities act through people very well, but not adequately accounting for the mechanism, or for the existence of higher principalities.
(DIR) Post #AnyclJXMDJzRWaOxDk by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T19:52:43.726788Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @cine @hidden @une @snacks My ego is so small I can't even see it.
(DIR) Post #Anycrl6EeLy4kImwTo by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T19:53:54.185540Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden @une @snacks ah, that sounds a little like evola
(DIR) Post #Anyd4Q4c8U6XIb4ERE by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T19:56:10.877238Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks It's true of most post-Christian mystics, they lobotomize their worldview so that it can be severed from Christian orthodoxy.
(DIR) Post #AnyejlMXzINP9ZjWPA by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T20:14:51.473151Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden @une @snacks well Jung was influenced by nietzche, and nietzsche made a really good argument that the christian orthodoxy was kind of tainted at its foundation-- for example, that it glorified abstaining from the use of power, which most of its followers weren't in any position to indulge in anyway. It's a kind of a "cheap" religion that way. Also, something that bothers me immensely about christianity is that it promulgates a kind of false unity, that the christian god is THE final embodiment of all the important, ultimate forces, and that there's nothing else. It does give SOME nods to jesus' human nature and his struggles with that, but overall, the story isn't exactly close to the lives of normal people. It's not easy to RELATE to. It kind of has a tendency to float away, and leave people utterly void of spiritual experience outside of the two hours every sunday. It leads people to completely exclude the sublime from any part of their day-to-day lives. As if they're thinking "yeah that's God shit, nothing to do with me!" when the reality is that everyone is meant to seek a connection with something like the divine.It makes perfect sense for people to want to stay away from that rigid order, but yeah that's no excuse for most hippies and other "free thinkers" or wahtever not filling the resulting gaps with SOMETHING other than just primitive nature worship bs, or better yet updating christianity.
(DIR) Post #Anyey5Bx3nXEhrbbAu by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T20:17:26.577612Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks I'm conflicted about the idea of Christianity having a corrupt root bc it embodies all the greatest and most retarded aspects of humanity at once.It is stupid and unjust, unfathomably deep, and the best conventional model I know of for describing the world.I have more thoughts, will reply after lunch.
(DIR) Post #AnyhRMvwNLq22PD0hk by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T20:45:08.561175Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @J @hidden @snacks I don't really think this is true of Christianity, that it inherently steers people away from seeing the divine in their everyday life. Catholic mystics like Marguerite Porete or Therese de Lisieux try to inject God back into the everyday.I think personally that Nietzsche tried too hard to define what Christianity is, but it isn't really anything. Or I should say no definition of it could encompass all of it
(DIR) Post #AnyjdUNMjN58VFwZZw by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T21:09:45.149234Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@une @J @hidden @snacks the n-man's critique of christianity was more in terms of the way it was used in the society of his time rather than what it IS. My opinion is it could be much more. I think a lot of its problems can be blamed on its early use by empire as a method to unify subject populations. As for bringing God into the everyday... Maybe the catholics and older versions of it are better at this, but protestants ARE NOT. You only need to drive around any rural area and see how they build their churches-- cheap, prefab buildings with no attention to aesthetics. Near my childhood home is a wal mart literally set up in an abandoned wal-mart with not much attention paid to making the building look any better than when it was a wal mart. Or maybe wal mart is "good enough" for this type... It's so utilitarian. Giving the minimum consideration to the sublime possible, and the people in those communities rarely talk about christianity except to moralize to others. Maybe what I'm seeing is just a consequence of puritanism.
(DIR) Post #AnykFLXS2IhC6BiGe0 by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T21:16:35.167305Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @J @hidden @snacks some protestantism has been good, mostly it's been shit
(DIR) Post #AnyobpN0CgmIo5nicK by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:05:27.741324Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks>well Jung was influenced by nietzche, and nietzsche made a really good argument that the christian orthodoxy was kind of tainted at its foundationI don't think Jung was particularly influenced on this point. He was resentful of the shallowness of his religious upbringing from childhood, if you trust his autobiographical account.>for example, that it glorified abstaining from the use of power...This is a very complicated issue because it seems rather clear from the primary sources that Christians were anticipating a new kingdom right away. "It's fine to submit and die because Jesus is coming to conquer the world and resurrect you, like, next week."That didn't happen and Christians have been spending the past 1900 years or so coping; stuck in an impossible situation where if they don't take power, the world stays in chaos, and if they do, they're eaten by chaos. In the later tradition you have a strong idea of Christian statesmen, but well into the 3rd Century, you weren't even allowed inside a church if you were affiliated with the empire, and in an era where the past is being re-examined in an attempt to refine some kind of purity, that's not going to be good enough.>it promulgates a kind of false unity, that the christian god is THE final embodiment of all the important, ultimate forces, and that there's nothing elseIf nothing else, it's a good theory of hierarchy. The problem is when you get into the specifics of what that hierarchy entails, and when you turn the supposed goods emanating from Yahweh on the characterization of Yahweh in his Scriptures, because you'll find that he frequently doesn't meet his own criteria for good. The fact that Marcionism and similar successor theories never went away attests to this. If there is good, and an impression of that is written on the human heart from above, why can we find clear instances of Yahweh appearing to do evil deeds?But if you depersonalize that hierarchy and remove Yahweh from the equation like the Neoplatonists do, you wind up straining to find a standard for what virtues actually entail. You can posit tentative theories and not much else.>It's not easy to RELATE to. It kind of has a tendency to float away, and leave people utterly void of spiritual experience outside of the two hours every sunday. It leads people to completely exclude the sublime from any part of their day-to-day lives. As if they're thinking "yeah that's God shit, nothing to do with me!" when the reality is that everyone is meant to seek a connection with something like the divine.I think this is an issue with your presuppositions. Who cares if it's easy to relate to? What bearing does that have on anything? "Spiritual experience" is narcissistic bullshit, just do a bunch of psychedelics.
(DIR) Post #AnyooIFGfitVpx7xNg by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:07:43.571227Z
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@une @cajax @hidden @snacks It's an entire tradition, you can still make valid critiques. Most of Nietzsche's critiques are at least somewhat directionally true, but he's far more naive than people treat him. I think if he had lived to be an older man, he would've developed on it a lot more.
(DIR) Post #AnypP4GraguHD9PQPY by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:14:22.470528Z
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@J @cajax @hidden @snacks idk tradition is only a part of what Christianity entails. i do not think it's possible to critique Christianity without being analytic about it which necessitates cutting it up into pieces, which is fine, I just find it's extremely common to uphold a critique of disparate parts of Christianity as though they're critiques of Christianity as a whole, and as something of a Christian, it bothers me
(DIR) Post #Anypfx17oVQVdX68jw by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:17:24.822284Z
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@cajax @hidden @une @snacks>I think a lot of its problems can be blamed on its early use by empire as a method to unify subject populations.This happened with all the big surviving religions at an early point but the main difference is that Christianity started out as a remnant amongst a corrupt empire, so unifying that to a "universal" (for all intents and purposes) secular hierarchy is trying to bring together opposites, and not in a complimentary way.It would've made sense if the Byzantine Empire had gone on to be a Christian utopia (which Eastern Orthodox want you to believe is what happened) but it's rather famous for being a cutthroat beaurocratic hell for basically its entire thousand year run.>Maybe the catholics and older versions of the religion are better about this, but protestants ARE NOT. You only need to drive around any rural area and see how they build their churches-- cheap, prefab buildings with no attention to aesthetics.It's not so much Protestantism as it is post-medieval culture as a whole. Protestant thought is wooden for the same reason modern philosophy is wooden.If you go into old established American towns, you'll actually see more pretty Presbyterian, Espicopalian, Methodist architecture, and the Catholics will have a rinky dink repurposed house or restaurant or something. We just have a culture where Baptist and corpo nu-churches are always trying to grift and displace the old community for profit, and then you also have the charismatic movement where every other narcissist is encouraged to start a Pentecostal cult. These new guys will not have the establishment to work out of pretty buildings.
(DIR) Post #AnypkhYcigub8Z22ls by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:18:16.853476Z
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@une @cajax @hidden @snacks What is there in Christianity that isn't encompassed by tradition?
(DIR) Post #Anyq7CQ0exuFDojMWG by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T22:22:21.657341Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden @une @snacks Very interesting shit. I had to go and get high in the mean time (had a productive day damnit it's earned) so I'm not in a great disposition to really argue about this but I'll be thinking about it and maybe I'll have something to say later. But I do have a couple questions in the meantime... >Christians have been spending the past 1900 years or so coping; stuck in an impossible situationAre you saying that christianity, in the formulation passed down to us, was kind of intended as a stop-gap for a short period of time? That kind of... sheds a lot of light on problems I've had with this religion in the past. >because you'll find that he frequently doesn't meet his own criteria for goodI was under the impression that under christian doctrine god was basically allowed to break his own rules. some people say it's because he's completely above our judgement entirely, others say the stuff he did was justified on moral grounds, or even that the people he punished were "predestined" to be damned (if you wanna give calvinists any creedence-- personally I find them absolutely disgusting).
(DIR) Post #AnyqU59PqYmHLGseA4 by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:26:28.161929Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks Are you saying that christianity, in the formulation passed down to us, was kind of intended as a stop-gap for a short period of time?I think it's virtually undebatable. Jesus could not be more clear in telling the Apostles that he would be back and the kingdom will be fulfilled within their lifetimes.The Fathers cope with this problem in lots of ways. Some say John the Apostle is still alive somewhere. Some say the "counter" was paused until the jews accept Christ, so he can reclaim his proper title.Liberals will say it's entirely allegorical (at which point, why do you need the religion in articulate form at all?)No matter how you cut the pie, it comes off as cope.
(DIR) Post #AnyqXX7iImZSxxjJDc by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:27:03.152683Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@J @cajax @hidden @snacks you can read any aspect of Christianity through the lens of tradition, but you're still making the choice to read it that way (historically) rather than another way (theologically, philosophically, poetically, etc.). i recognize my personal relationship with Christ is instantiated within the tradition of Christianity, but like, when I've had visions of Christ, I've derived no extra special meaning from comparing what I've heard to Christian history, or the gospels, or whatever. I personally just think Christ and God are real, that my visions can be understood as psychological historically-instantiated phenomena, but that they are also real encounters with an extra-historical existence, so on the one hand it's tradition, on the other hand it's other things
(DIR) Post #AnyqtkmmBcbfi4X2tk by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:31:07.651173Z
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@cajax @hidden @une @snacks >god was basically allowed to break his own rulesThis is the low IQ way of dismissing the supposed disparity. The actual explanations are more like "Good is univocal with the Divine Nature, God as Good (which is the only thing with ontological essence) can only do GoodThen for specific examples, you'll say something like "God can only be understood analogically, therefore when Scripture says 'Yahweh changed his mind' it's actually got nothing to do with changing his mind, but it's the closest thing to a motivation we can understand."My problem with this, though, is that if there's infinite dissimilitude, on what basis can you make the analogy? Furthermore, how do you account for attributes like "mercy" especially as they're expressed in the Incarnation, something that isn't exclusively transcendental?
(DIR) Post #AnyqxwCbgKA6HBbpcO by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:31:52.863172Z
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@cajax @hidden @snacks @une A God who can break his own rules is more akin to what Hindus have.
(DIR) Post #AnyrDoYxquinDTda52 by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:34:44.763586Z
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@J @cajax @hidden @snacks I'm usually just content to say that this is a necessary consequence of trying to smash Greek philosophy together with Hebrew tradition. I guess if you're trying to make a universal truth claim it makes things really messy and bad, but if you ignore that I think the games they came up with to explain the discrepancies are really fun and interesting
(DIR) Post #AnyrF7ohkiRPDkcnMO by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:34:58.956017Z
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@une @cajax @hidden @snacks Theology, philosophy, and poetry are subsets of tradition, and if you've had visions of Christ, you know what those are through the tradition that's been handed down, whether you need to make a post hoc literary reference or not.Either way, I disagree that tackling parts of a system is an invalid move. Christianity has a pretty clear structure with single points of failure.
(DIR) Post #AnyrHmZrB1bWDTwlcm by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:35:27.994881Z
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@J @cajax @hidden @snacks you are choosing to prioritize tradition
(DIR) Post #AnyrSaEPQ2YB6z46DI by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:37:24.907103Z
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@une @cajax @hidden @snacks It's not a choice, it's more like a necessary inference based on how information is transmitted in history.What is your definition of tradition?
(DIR) Post #AnyrWuKicgq2cA4vFw by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:38:12.035348Z
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@une @cajax @hidden @snacks Christianity makes universal truth claims, probably more than any other tradition in the world, that's why it's so hard to defend. Greek philosophy is in the language of the New Testament itself, you can't decouple them.You can make use of Christianity in unorthodox ways, but at that point, you're so far outside the useful lexical range of the term, it would be better to just call it something else.
(DIR) Post #AnyrZr8IygdzYeg5oW by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-12T22:38:42.001192Z
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@J @hidden @une @snacks well in order to literally "break [its] own rules" a god has to have contradictory, unpraiseworthy traits, or just be kind of stupid and unable to plan ahead-- i.e., not godlike. So it's kind of a self-contradictioin. I think it comes down to the fact that we have a natural disdain for that kind of behavior. Leaders who commanded you to do one thing while they did the opposite are extremely dangerous to have over you. Maybe God is just a more intense projection of the normal roles we have such as 'leader' or 'father,' so we find those traits abhorrent in Him. Completely understandable to not like that about christianity IMO, I agree.Sorry man I'm probably dragging this discussion way off topic. I'll fuck off until I'm sober.
(DIR) Post #AnyrbcYe8fTqvuqAVM by kevinparaguay@social.fbxl.net
2024-11-12T22:23:29.143858Z
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I'm tapping into this thread. I'll read it later.
(DIR) Post #AnyrbdWuWbgbwp2IRE by Wild_West@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:39:02.178234Z
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@kevinparaguay @J @hidden @une @cajax @snacks oh wtf? based. kevin paraguay? I love that guy
(DIR) Post #AnyrztOlB4oi74n1Xc by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:43:26.194018Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cajax @hidden @une @snacks It's fine.To be more precise, I think a God can break his own rules, in the sense that the world exists in hierarchies, and goods can be expressed in different ways at different levels. A God shouldn't worship man, for example.But a God shouldn't be able to break his own Goods. Yahweh is said to be inable to do this, but he does. In Hindu myth, Vishnu and Shiva are free to commit evils as they see fit bc India never developed the idea that good has an inherent property of existence, whereas evil can only be parasitic, so for Indian religions good and evil are seen as dependent and somewhat relative, though the problem is somewhat solved in Mahayana where good = clarity and evil = limitation
(DIR) Post #AnysKswm3E3YnJi3gO by tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-11-12T22:47:15.174628Z
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@J @hidden @une @cajax @snacks at that point the god isnt what youre following but rather which dogma / constellation fo beleif you want to attrivute to the creator.if god is god and beyond all things then do you worship god as a catholic hindu buddhist or an animist?
(DIR) Post #AnysteXpafA6GIca8G by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-12T22:53:30.679176Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tiskaan @hidden @une @cajax @snacks The dogma comes from the God. You worship God according to the dogma. If you attribute a dogma to the creator, then you worship that God (and if you're wrong you wind up in hell.)There's no contradiction there. Things exist in hierarchies, you use low things to aim at high things.>if god is ... beyond all things...What do you mean by beyond? If you mean he can't intersect with reality as we see it, then it's a useless conversation anyway. We're just guessing.>...then do you worship god as a catholic hindu buddhist or an animist?Again, it depends what God is. There's not a unified monotheistic theory, the principle at the top of existence is different in each case.
(DIR) Post #Anz3XW17iKC2wHy9A0 by tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-11-13T00:52:47.423108Z
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@J @hidden @une @cajax @snacks then how would you know if the dogma cones from god? why is that god and just another way to worshio the god? how do we know which dogma is the right dogma?maybe im neing too Hermetic if thats the right word for it idk>There's no contradiction there. Things exist in hierarchies, you use low things to aim at high things.i dont understnd could explain your motivation behnd this sorry.i think what i meant bwyond all things was peobably beyond understansing, i assumed from " I think a God can break his own rules, " as such because we wouldnt understandthe motivation of why it would break its own rules but rather that it did so.honealty i dont know why i joined this thread. i dont know what the poibt was i was suppsoed t( make. i dont know.
(DIR) Post #Anz4wroHvQ1DircN5E by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T01:08:33.353357Z
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@tiskaan @J @une @cajax @snacks Hilt shit Tiskaan is alive
(DIR) Post #Anz5bbEqRWZYCQSjXE by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T01:15:54.779495Z
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@tiskaan @hidden @une @cajax @snacks Are you ok lil bro?
(DIR) Post #Anz614LVML77iKiqdU by tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-11-13T01:20:32.412212Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@J @hidden @une @cajax @snacks no zaddy im not skibidi on fanum tax
(DIR) Post #AnzABMpfsgU9lI03xg by Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com
2024-11-13T02:07:13.924907Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@J @hidden @une @cajax @snacks that's just circular reasoning, it's higher IQ to just say that the rules don't apply to God
(DIR) Post #AnzAPHHTJouEb7dQxs by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T02:09:42.661115Z
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@Cyrillic @hidden @une @cajax @snacks Circular reasoning is only a fallacy in epistemology. If God is univocal to transcendental Goods then they're necessarily going to be defined by one another.
(DIR) Post #AnzAQ0mCARDhhRM6bI by cajax@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-13T02:09:51.712348Z
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@Cyrillic @J @hidden @une @snacks I don't think he was saying he agrees with it, only explaining that particular christian... would this be a theodicy? something like that.
(DIR) Post #AnzAfE3V4uNPEBhjzk by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T02:12:35.661712Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Cyrillic @J @une @cajax @snacks Defeats the entire religion. Good is defined by God and vice versa. Actual high iq answer is Old Testament God doing evil is most easily explained by being reflective of Jewish persecution complex.
(DIR) Post #AnzAkhwVNynrMx2xIO by J@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T02:13:35.087656Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @Cyrillic @cajax @snacks @une Oh boy... Holocaust 2.0 inbound.
(DIR) Post #AnzHHKOYYUu5cR6ZpQ by cine@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T03:26:42.300027Z
5 likes, 5 repeats
@hidden @J @cajax @snacks @une found it
(DIR) Post #AnzHRq39ibBygs6gzY by hidden@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T03:28:35.944988Z
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@cine @J @cajax @snacks @une The drug addicts part makes me smile so hard
(DIR) Post #AnzHTU6uGAnbE2e800 by une@cawfee.club
2024-11-13T03:28:54.301346Z
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@cine @J @cajax @hidden @snacks this rules
(DIR) Post #AnzPVdbcj5hEt5YGI4 by get@clubcyberia.co
2024-11-13T04:58:56.510276Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@cine @J @hidden @une @cajax @snacks don't talk to me until you've drank a blended cactus from a clay bowl