Post And1zcVkIk0LPRVlYm by clive@saturation.social
(DIR) More posts by clive@saturation.social
(DIR) Post #And1zHNsqmEnsyfgtE by clive@saturation.social
2024-11-01T16:47:24Z
6 likes, 1 repeats
More evidence -- this time with audio tapes from the original experiment -- showing that the Stanford Prison Experiment was rigged to encourage terrible behavior by the guardsIn Medium: https://gen.medium.com/the-lifespan-of-a-lie-d869212b1f62Unpaywalled: https://archive.is/K7gMNTalking about this with my son, I was struck by how many pieces of major science/theory/culture in the mid-20th-century insisted that they "proved" humanity was inherently, natively selfish -- but turned out to be much less true1/x
(DIR) Post #And1zItTEp6AZESQlM by sun@shitposter.world
2024-11-02T09:51:43.397564Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@clive if this was faked how much other psychology is a bunch of shit
(DIR) Post #And1zWxsvCwqCyd9aS by clive@saturation.social
2024-11-01T16:52:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
There's the Stanford Prison Experiment, of course, from 1971 -- where the terrible behavior of the guards seems to have been significantly nudged along by the people running the experimentIt didn't emerge *organically*2/x
(DIR) Post #And1zZlwU4B4uo49tA by clive@saturation.social
2024-11-01T16:53:57Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
There's also "Lord of the Flies", which came out in 1954, and cemented the idea that young boys -- when removed from the moral guardrails of proper British society -- would become absolute terrors to one anotherBut when this happened in reality -- when six boys were marooned on a remote island for 15 months -- they all cheerfully banded together and co-operated, including carefully tending for one boy who broke his leg, while it healed: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months3/x
(DIR) Post #And1zcVkIk0LPRVlYm by clive@saturation.social
2024-11-01T16:57:42Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
And I'm thinking also of game theory -- which, when it emerged in the early-to-mid 20th century, predicted that people would behave as selfish maximizersBut when they started testing the theory with real people, it didn't work that wayreal people were as liable to cooperate and give a fair shake to their supposed competitors4/x
(DIR) Post #And1zes9WP7GjW0glM by clive@saturation.social
2024-11-01T16:59:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It's interesting to think about what was going on, culturally, in this period of the mid-to-middle 20th century, that all these theories of "the horrible, selfish, violent people that lurk within us" gained such currencyWWI and WWII, certainly, but there's got to be a lot of factors at play in why these theories grew so big and loomed so high5/5
(DIR) Post #And1zhH2aqDGBHfapk by clive@saturation.social
2024-11-01T17:02:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I mean it's not like the overall point -- that moral behavior is heavily influenced by our environment, and so environments/rules/jobs that encourage and endorse horrid behavior and power-wielding will *produce* horrid behavior -- is wrongBut the balance of understanding got decisively tipped away from probing and investigating the role and lure and satisfaction of cooperation in human affairs
(DIR) Post #And2EZOMBFtw4yBSF6 by asa@shitposter.world
2024-11-02T09:54:30.596904Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @clive even thought that experiment was faked it is stil true that human nature is to abuse power and so if put in a system where you can abuse power people will overtime normalize abusing power more and more and more.The experiment would probably take too long to be viable without cheating a little in order to speed things up, of course the cheating makes the whole thing worthless...
(DIR) Post #And2HYiHA0l4qJvTTU by lain@lain.com
2024-11-02T09:55:02.073994Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @clive i'm sure the 'third wave' thing was faked / made up too.
(DIR) Post #And3YUTcGSxea4hs5A by amerika@annihilation.social
2024-11-02T10:09:18.765289Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@asa @clive @sun "human nature is to abuse power"Depends on the human and the power.Trad is tiered hierarchy of duties/privileges.
(DIR) Post #And3oZEWLcHnxyJOTI by asa@shitposter.world
2024-11-02T10:12:13.278606Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@amerika @clive @sun The majority of humans are not intelligent enough to rise above their animal instincts, so when I say humans I am referring to all humans excluding the extreme minority of geniuses that aspire to be Christ-like.
(DIR) Post #And3tUqK68kZnXLOEq by amerika@annihilation.social
2024-11-02T10:13:06.678011Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@asa @clive @sun I just call these the lower castes.The aristocracy -- the twice-born -- tend to be less Christ-like and more Socrates-like.
(DIR) Post #And3zfYVBL4ClAx48O by asa@shitposter.world
2024-11-02T10:14:13.543768Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@amerika @clive @sun what does twice born mean and what do you mean by more socrates like
(DIR) Post #And48u0yn9icD8fsw4 by amerika@annihilation.social
2024-11-02T10:15:53.707834Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@asa @clive @sun I remember Evola using the term but it was common in the ancient world for the higher-IQ types who took a long time to mature but then saw more than others.More Socrates-like... historically, Christianity is derived from Plato, but with a dualistic meaning grafted on.Socrates is benevolent but also realistic, so not moralistic/dualistic.
(DIR) Post #And6CtBI27nugxWfA0 by kaia@brotka.st
2024-11-02T10:38:20.287285Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @clive @sun it's a long established tradition in psychology to fake research data so it aligns with preconceived notions and political agenda. those who got caught did not work diligently enough in hiding it, like Diederik Stapel or Cyril Burt.
(DIR) Post #And6M2RAzKPg0QJr8q by bartholin@fops.cloud
2024-11-02T10:40:39.000445Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @clive @sun It was biased because the participants were Germans :neocat_melt_blep:
(DIR) Post #Ane3QjqpPh3P6ZpMCe by Type_Other@poa.st
2024-11-02T21:42:37.753371Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@clive Repeated games reveal different behavior than one-offs. If you know you have to interact with somebody a hundred more times, you're a lot more likely both to play nice and be forgiving.
(DIR) Post #Ane7h5Y4uShsqh6oTo by MeBigbrain@poa.st
2024-11-02T22:30:24.209058Z
8 likes, 3 repeats
@clive
(DIR) Post #Ane9EJdBfkqa2EuG7k by confederatehobo@mugicha.club
2024-11-02T22:47:35.943014Z
8 likes, 2 repeats
Funny thing, a bunch of kids got stranded on an island in the 60s, and they immediately worked together well until they were rescued like a year and a half later. They were some sort of pacific brownoid instead of anglo, but that reinforces the point that lord of the flies isn't some grand look at the human condition, and is rather closer to political cynicism from a drunk.
(DIR) Post #AneAYHAAerGw7uPqSG by MeBigbrain@poa.st
2024-11-02T23:02:25.455056Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@confederatehobo @clive >he didn't scroll up 💀 Yeah I think the point of it is supposed to be a warning about fascism or something gay like that. (Because fascists would never be orderly and work together for a common goal lmao)
(DIR) Post #AneAfPZzlQYeFzti4W by confederatehobo@mugicha.club
2024-11-02T23:03:42.643483Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
>he didn't scroll up 💀Oh, lol. Most of this thread isn't visible to me.
(DIR) Post #AneAhipBBOfiWV6M5o by givenup@poa.st
2024-11-02T23:04:08.134690Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@confederatehobo @MeBigbrain @clive KEK (kill every kike)
(DIR) Post #AneAr25Qw5W6s08z2G by givenup@poa.st
2024-11-02T23:05:48.999027Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@confederatehobo @MeBigbrain @clive they harvested the cornfield
(DIR) Post #AneC8WfeZscYbOzUfY by JSDorn@mugicha.club
2024-11-02T23:20:10.720220Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@confederatehobo @MeBigbrain @clive "if you aren't nice to my fat retard self insert you can't have a society"
(DIR) Post #AneCfXRaiwfEYZ9fRg by Hoss@shitpost.cloud
2024-11-02T23:26:08.126695Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
My theory about psychology research is the more chuddy and uncomfortable it makes normies, the truer it is.
(DIR) Post #AneD7eXtugN4gsVolk by mcv@friendica.opensocial.space
2024-11-02T18:16:30Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @cliveQuite a bit of postwar psychology was specifically trying to prove that humans were monsters underneath a thin veneer of civilization. I'd be surprised if Stanford Prison and Milgram were the only ones that were manipulated to confirm a bias.
(DIR) Post #AneF12YwQ9fD3gyPpY by pepsi_man@poa.st
2024-11-02T23:52:26.546210Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@clive Humans are social creatures and much to the shag-rhin of our elites, have to be driven to fight.Case in point: The Christmas soccer games that broke out all over the frontlines of WW1 between French and German troops. This event sent the elites into overdrive with their xenophobic propaganda campaigns against the Germans. Furthermore, NCO's were given pistols to shoot supposed deserters in the back. Similar tactics were employed by the Americans in WW2.
(DIR) Post #AneyDiSMyv7iP2JmM4 by bonifartius@qoto.org
2024-11-03T08:18:57Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@clive cc @lain @sun weren't you talking about this a few days ago?
(DIR) Post #Aneyp1bujM6OWRZYrA by lain@lain.com
2024-11-03T08:25:41.015427Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@bonifartius @clive @sun yes, in response to this post, lol
(DIR) Post #AneywrfFatXlzWs5Wy by bonifartius@qoto.org
2024-11-03T08:27:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @clive @sun oh, lol :blobcatupsidedown: