Post AnT84dk1IfLxF7FuiW by Archergal@wandering.shop
(DIR) More posts by Archergal@wandering.shop
(DIR) Post #AnRcca1CFzizqoTCaW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T21:45:38Z
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There is a notion that "spanking is bad parenting" comes from a desire to be soft & permissive. Having interacted with many young people and their parents? It just doesn't work. And when it fails it can do so catastrophically. Children need consist boundaries. They need to know the adults in charge of those rules love them and care about them. The most confused, unable to self-regulate children I've ever worked with had parents very proud of spanking them.
(DIR) Post #AnRd0CB4Y1VWrOLlEe by carrideen@c18.masto.host
2024-10-27T21:49:52Z
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@futurebird Yes to all of this. As someone who was struck as a child, it took until well into my 20s before I learned to stop hitting people (slapping, grabbing, manhandling) whenever I had a strong feeling. It is so hard to let go of being disciplined by and into violence.
(DIR) Post #AnRdDWYi59D5ptlIky by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-10-27T21:51:59Z
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@futurebird There was a discussion about the psychological effects. I forget the exact details of it, but I think the consensus was that spanking didn't actually discourage the bad behavior. It only discouraged getting caught.
(DIR) Post #AnRdEyFKctBZzrO62y by desttinghim@gamedev.lgbt
2024-10-27T21:52:33Z
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@futurebird consistency is the key part of this. If you promise something, good or bad, you should keep that promise. Otherwise the lesson learned is that promises will *not* be kept, and that the words you use are purely manipulation. I think most parents end up falling somewhere in between keeping all their promises and keeping none of them.
(DIR) Post #AnRdNFpv6uGirtS3nc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T21:54:02Z
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@queenofnewyork I was spanked and it didn't have a negative impact on me. That's possible. But it's the BEST outcome. (And I still have a shred of resentment for my grandmother who insisted on it and bullied my mom into doing it.) But, I don't think it harmed me it was just another consequence.But this is the very best one could hope for with spanking. That it didn't do any major harm.So why do it then when in many cases it can lead to problems?
(DIR) Post #AnRdQZKV5jXOC6KsQS by wendigo@metalhead.club
2024-10-27T21:54:37Z
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@futurebird My Dad scared the hell out of me when I was a kid because he would take the belt to me pretty hard. That said, he stopped when I got to a certain age, oddly. I do believe that it did hurt him a lot to do it, though. And I know he regretted it at the end of his life. That was just the way he was raised, and it wasn't pretty for him. I turned out OK, though. I'd never take the strap to my kids, but you live and you learn from the mistakes your parents make (hopefully)...
(DIR) Post #AnRdX4W839IKersM08 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T21:55:50Z
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@desttinghim It can help if the parent acknowledges that a promise was not kept. "I did say that X would happen if Y. But I have changed my mind because... But you are correct I did say that."Adults who can't do this are making a big mess IMO.
(DIR) Post #AnRdmds8snI0eab3my by samiamsam@mastodon.social
2024-10-27T21:58:38Z
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@futurebird this is a hot button issue for mei was dominated and brutalized physically and emotionally as a childa whole family of abusive alcoholicsdo not hit your kids - they grow up thinking people who 'love' you hurt youit never heals - ask me how i know
(DIR) Post #AnRdoL1fvKIumYrej2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T21:58:58Z
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@1moremin Whew.
(DIR) Post #AnRe5yfrlWtWfj4gcK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T22:02:08Z
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@queenofnewyork Children are pretty resilient and parents don't need to be perfect to be good. But when you start adding additional pressures from money, from family problems, etc. having spanking in the mix is just dangerous. It's like drunk driving in a way. No one wants to do harm, but by hitting a child you are setting yourself up to do harm just as much as a drunk at the wheel. Just don't do it IMO!
(DIR) Post #AnRf192PuEiRJwsjnU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T22:12:28Z
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@recursive True. It takes a little effort but children shouldn't be exposed to our anger directly. Whenever I'm "angry with" a student it's fake. Because how I feel isn't really calibrated to their needs. And it's about THEM. And young people can sense this somehow, the very young ones will test it and when they see how consistent these responses are they kind of love it in this odd way?
(DIR) Post #AnRfCOZ8Vy28fGYD44 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T22:14:30Z
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@recursive "She's going to say 'I'm very disappointed'"me: "I'm very disappointed""SEE!"
(DIR) Post #AnRfZOVCusC981gCv2 by beisbolcards@mastodon.world
2024-10-27T22:18:38Z
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@futurebird I remember a few spankings as a kid.And, as my own mom would tell me then, she didn't hit me hard, bu it was the very fact that I was spanked that made me cry. Wish I could rememeber why that happened.Also, I've seen parents angrily yelling at their kids over and over, I never had that.
(DIR) Post #AnRfaaBaxiTbed4aci by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T22:18:39Z
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@recursive Hilariously they really really really do not like it when I say that. They are a little neurotic, I think. I have a lot of perfectionist kids. I'm working with them on that. But also, I don't like it when I have to repeat the directions. It's ... very disappointing.
(DIR) Post #AnRfcj7GjN2fvj4VqS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T22:19:16Z
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@beisbolcards Not all abuse is physical.
(DIR) Post #AnRgirHxMJPyy4YgwS by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-10-27T22:31:33Z
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@futurebird @recursive One of my favorite parenting moments was when I found myself muttering my mantra of “mistakes are how we learn” to *myself* upon finding a stupid bug in my code
(DIR) Post #AnRgu1hOzewkRNmmg4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-27T22:33:35Z
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@FinalOverdrive @recursive
(DIR) Post #AnRhEaZL3d4yNaoqci by BatSara@m.ai6yr.org
2024-10-27T22:37:17Z
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@futurebird When my kids were young, I used "The Clasp" by Sharon Olds to remind myself of the harms done by physical punishment.
(DIR) Post #AnRhnrTyALGGyG7wO0 by Kierkegaanks@beige.party
2024-10-27T22:43:37Z
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@futurebird spanking has been a violent crime in sweden since 1980, and swedes are famously out of control
(DIR) Post #AnRlWUAXzSwPYm0poO by Lundemo@mstdn.social
2024-10-27T23:25:21Z
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@futurebird @benroyce I was spanked with a belt, Screamed at, slapped etc. Many times. IMO it’s child abuse. There are no positives to it that I can see. I never spanked my own child and found other ways to introduce logical consequences when she needed correction.
(DIR) Post #AnRmI8raVYaJNgrv16 by maxthyme@mastodon.social
2024-10-27T23:33:57Z
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@futurebird though learning that sometimes people with power can and will harm you for vague reasons might just prepare them for being around cops
(DIR) Post #AnRrOJOel2CZYf6704 by sbourne@mastodon.social
2024-10-28T00:31:05Z
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@futurebird We told our toddler son that you don't hit the people you love, so that kinda put the kibosh on spanking. I sometimes wonder, though, about the psychological impact of non-physical alternatives: shunning, "I'm very disappointed", etc.(Child has turned into a decent, caring adult, so probably ok?)
(DIR) Post #AnRs2p5iKzdVRLYSEC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T00:38:26Z
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@sbourne Well the things we do impact other people. They might be unhappy or happy, disappointed etc. I think key to still feeling safe is knowing that it's within your power to make it right. And that even if for some reason you can't do that you are still cared for and wanted.
(DIR) Post #AnRsKUCejmopryDxZY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T00:41:38Z
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@sbourne That's part of why I think it's important for any anger we express to young people be a little "fake" not the direct result of real anger but a consequence that's supposed to steer them back in a better direction. Almost a bit like a game.
(DIR) Post #AnRsxGq8M6oPiZBQrg by sbourne@mastodon.social
2024-10-28T00:48:38Z
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@futurebird When I was truly angry, I would put myself in time-out until I had dealt with that. I think it was good that he saw my anger. But that doesn't mean it would be ok to subject him to whatever poor decision I made in that state.
(DIR) Post #AnSMbjexWMlXM3bV20 by Alarod@mstdn.social
2024-10-28T06:20:52Z
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@futurebird I am not a better person because of spankings.
(DIR) Post #AnSh9IsFc7dtD46Yme by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T10:11:04Z
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@queenofnewyork It's worth noting that you never hear anyone say "I was spanked and it really helped me to understand and grow" no... the line is always "I was spanked and tuned out fine." much like "I played with lawn darts and turned out fine." (I also played with lawn darts, and I would not give them to a child today, knowing what can go wrong)We don't like to think of our parents making mistakes, so people who were spanked an survived it unharmed have a tendency to defend it.
(DIR) Post #AnShw2ZH1o58pKT4lM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T10:19:52Z
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@queenofnewyork Maybe, as a teacher, I have a more statistical view of these issues. Give lawn darts to 1000 children and most will have fun. 2 or 3 will end up in the emergency room with life changing injuries or worse. If 1000 families decide to spank their kids it might even be the case that most are "fine" (although some research suggests otherwise) but in some cases a child may be hurt, in many more the emotional damage will hold children back. It just has no "upside."
(DIR) Post #AnSiCALhrjPbapoMS0 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T10:22:46Z
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@spacehobo @queenofnewyork There are still schools in some US states where teachers can hit kids, although I've never met anyone who teaches under such circumstances.
(DIR) Post #AnSl4JxWYHPMwZS1KK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T10:54:59Z
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@dalias @queenofnewyork I agree. I think we can make some space for those who sincerely think it didn't harm them since I think forcing everyone who was spanked as a child to view it as literal "child abuse" isn't a way to win on this issue. "Our parents didn't know better. They did what they thought was best for us, but we can do better."Until I started reading studies and seeing the impacts as a teacher I was in the "people are making too big of a deal out of this" camp.
(DIR) Post #AnSlHL8PUacaM1kbpo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T10:57:20Z
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@dalias @queenofnewyork And I've seen a lot of people shut down and be resistant to change on this issue because they want to protect their parents and still have a little of that "mom and dad can do no wrong" in them. Mom and dad didn't have the information that you and I do now. Mom and dad didn't wear seatbelts and used leaded gasoline. There is never a good reason to hit a child. Ever.
(DIR) Post #AnSmsxYrgZSCCXcwVs by StarkRG@myside-yourside.net
2024-10-28T11:15:18Z
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@futurebird @queenofnewyork I've known people who were very clearly damaged by their upbringing that included spanking but still defend it.
(DIR) Post #AnSqpXMR2dh7tER8Qi by Amoshias@esq.social
2024-10-28T11:59:20Z
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@futurebird @dalias @queenofnewyork I was among that group and then a close friend of mine in the kink community said "if someone told you that their girlfriend or wife misbehaved and so they smacked them in the head, you would call the cops. Why does it become okay because it's a kid?" I don't judge other people because I've been there, but that changed my mind for good.
(DIR) Post #AnSrKfXUgVJSEQSDcO by sofia@chaos.social
2024-10-28T12:05:08Z
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@futurebird i don't believe the act. i think they beat children because they fucking enjoy it.all the apologia is just to not feel bad about it, including talking bad about parents who don't do that. kinda like vegan-bashing.if it teaches children anything, it is to abuse the vulnerable and that to use violence to get what they want. and that their parents don't seem to have a big problem with them being in pain, i guess…
(DIR) Post #AnSzbzPmq7bGQncSA4 by BLTpizza@mastodon.social
2024-10-28T13:37:54Z
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@futurebird @queenofnewyork being attacked by my father was terrifying. It taught us kids to be terrified
(DIR) Post #AnT84dk1IfLxF7FuiW by Archergal@wandering.shop
2024-10-28T15:12:42Z
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@futurebird @queenofnewyork I was spanked, and it taught me how to shut down & resist. At the end, I just didn’t want to give them the satisfaction of making me cry. And I always thought us having to go and choose a branch from the hedge to be whipped with was pretty cruel. Those things left welts on our legs that HURT. It all taught me that hitting when you’re angry is ok.
(DIR) Post #AnTMAvosOfUiPKQBxw by taatm@mathstodon.xyz
2024-10-28T17:50:44Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke If you are resorting to physical violence with children (spanking) then you have already failed at parenting.That is my hopefully uncontroversial opinion.If you think your children need spanking then I think you don’t understand your children.The most devastating thing they should ever experience is you justifiably telling them you are disappointed in them.
(DIR) Post #AnTTEvb4xx09QWyx84 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-10-28T19:09:54Z
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@queenofnewyork @dalias most of them didn’t know better I guess. I was speaking mostly about the jolly defenders of spanking who don’t know how lucky we were that it was nothing but a simple punishment and not a door to greater abuse. which it could have become it must be understood with different circumstances. It’s bad to yell at a child in anger— but words are more possible to take back and make right.
(DIR) Post #AnUaktRtNjucrtpmy0 by mansr@society.oftrolls.com
2024-10-29T08:08:49Z
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@futurebird Spanking, just like imprisonment, doesn't work as a deterrent for bad behaviour/crime. In both cases, the punishment really only serves as gratification for the authority while often causing irreparable harm to the offender.Especially with children, but also with adults, I believe rules need to be reasonable and consistently enforced. If this is the case, harsh disciplinary methods are generally unnecessary.