Post AnBRO1d2WoHa2ZD6iu by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
(DIR) More posts by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
(DIR) Post #AnAllzKOXOkNmQEWMy by juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe
2024-10-19T17:58:20Z
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I need to put in some thoughts for my next #ttrpg campaign. Give me some ideas for a campaign framework (ideally for a fantasy-ish setting) that fits the following:- The campaign should have a fairly strong regional focus - a region which the PCs can explore in depth, make connections with local people and organizations, and visit the same places again and again but under changing circumstances. (One reason is that this allows characters easily leave and join the action if one player is absent. But I have also come to the conclusion that I work best as a GM when I do a lot of worldbuilding for the campaign area in advance, instead of trying to do a "scenery of the week" travel campaign).- The PCs should have a reason to stick together beyond mere wealth acquisition.- There should be plenty of room for characters to drive their own plots - individually and collectively - instead of merely reacting to the world around them.What ideas can you come up with?(I haven't specified any particular setting, but if you can come with an idea that fits a particular setting especially well, then by all means share it!)
(DIR) Post #AnAlm0cVjWpfmtiVFI by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-19T18:38:05Z
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@juergen_hubert You could try something truly radical: ask the players what they want to do. Although it's generally frowned upon these days, I find it a useful methodology.But if you want a simple, quick, easy reference to thinking about how to constitute a group with reasons to stay together and an overall goal, check out Fantasy World, which has an explicit section talking about how different groups can be constituted. Effectively, it breaks it down on two axes, whether or not the group is wandering or works out of a home base, and whether or not the group is externally validated or internally validated.But really I would start by simply asking the players what they want to play. They aren't there to experience the story I tell them; they're there to play in the story they create.https://unplayablegamesrpg.itch.io/fantasy-world#TTRPG #FantasyWorld
(DIR) Post #AnAlu5475e0FtITbge by juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe
2024-10-19T18:39:33Z
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@lextenebris I do plan to ask the players what they want, but I want to start with several strong pitches first.As the GM, I need to be enthusiastic about the campaign as well, after all.
(DIR) Post #AnAmFOCH9cRnJ9SHJI by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-19T18:43:26Z
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@juergen_hubert You're starting with the wrong assumption. You're starting with the idea that you need to bring them strong pitches. That's not the way to do it. That's how you get them to buy into the story you want to tell. That's not how to get them to tell you what kind of story they want to tell.You have to be receptive and excited about spending time with these people and helping them tell their story.Like I said, I know it's not a particularly popular widespread idea that the GM's role is not to hand them things to choose from, but instead to listen to what they want to play. That is, however, how you get the best gameplay experiences out of the table.If you aren't already excited about spending time with these people and playing with these people, maybe GMing is not what you should be doing with them. And if you are, it doesn't matter what the pitch is. You'll enjoy it.#TTRPG
(DIR) Post #AnAmiujBHi7eb8vOfQ by juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe
2024-10-19T18:48:43Z
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@lextenebris This assumes that the other five people at the place are going to agree on what to run - and even if there is agreement, it does not mean I will be able to create something enjoyable from it.Also, you seem to assume that I want to pitch a particular story for the campaign. This is not actually the case. What I want to pitch is a campaign _framework_ in which the players can create their own stories. I provide the foundation, but it is up to the players what kind of house they build on it.
(DIR) Post #AnAogG6LYrghvWccjI by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-19T19:10:39Z
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@juergen_hubert If the prospective playgroup can't agree on what to play, or what kind of game they want to play, or how they want to be connected to each other, then maybe they don't need to be playing a game together at any point. Unless you're telling me that they are actively mentally impaired, in which case, maybe this isn't the best idea to pursue.I have never in my life of many, many decades of dealing with people in gaming contexts ever met a group of people who couldn't agree on what to run. They might want to play a whole lot of different things, but if you say, "We're playing some fantasy, what kind of thing do you want to see? And why are your characters associated?" they will have an answer as a group within a little bit.This is exactly why a lot of modern game design makes Session Zero a big deal, where this is negotiated and discussed and part of the process of play.Pick a game. That's the campaign framework. Even that's more than I would want to do. Rather, ask the people who are going to be playing what they want to play. What does the game support? What does the setting support? Start with the freaking book. That's your job.#TTRPG
(DIR) Post #AnBC0EUXYPV9fhQoym by peter@weilnboeck.social
2024-10-19T23:31:33Z
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@lextenebris @juergen_hubert Sorry to interrupt, but I strongly disagree here, especially because of the last sentence „That’s your job“.For the majority of GMs it is not though. It is a hobby. And many GM, because the others prefer to just play. Everyone should enjoy the game, and this includes especially the GM, because they put the most work in. If they players don’t like the GMs ideas, then maybe this is not the right table for them. Or they can offer to GM instead.
(DIR) Post #AnBRO1d2WoHa2ZD6iu by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-20T02:24:23Z
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@peter @juergen_hubert Would you prefer "that's your responsibility?"Because, if you are taking up the responsibility for yourself, it is your job. You are asserting your authority. You are taking responsibility. You're not getting paid for it, but that's your place. You picked it. You have chosen to put that work in. You didn't have to. You could certainly play games in which everyone is a player and there is no GM. They exist, they're excellent, and nobody has to spend hours and hours doing prep without the interaction of the people who are actually going to play the game.If the players don't like the GM's ideas, maybe the problem is not the players. Maybe the problem is that the GM thinks he's giving something to them and not sharing something with them. Which brings us all the way back to the original point, which is, "Maybe you should ask the players what they want instead of asking people who have nothing to do with your table what they think." That's guaranteed to have better outcomes.#TTRPG
(DIR) Post #AnBVqaMFOoIVfyEJeK by juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe
2024-10-20T03:14:21Z
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@lextenebris @peter So asking Internet strangers for #ttrpg brainstorming help is #BadWrongFun ?
(DIR) Post #AnBlAsRNNORcrXlLVo by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-20T06:06:06Z
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@juergen_hubert @peter No, it's just ultimately unrewarding and going to end up with no better suggestions than just asking the people that you intend to play with what they want to do. I know it's a crazy concept, this whole engaging with the players as if you were part of the group who is actually playing the game. Actually, giving the people who will be saddled with the results the primary level of engagement control. Absolute crazy talk. Stakeholders having the primary say in what happens. Madness.Actually running a Session Zero using a system in which the players themselves define the purpose and organization of the group they are going to be playing in and as part of, as represented by the system I suggested in the first response? Absolutely nutty. Who would do such a thing? It's crazy.It's brainstorming to an end which has nothing to do with the interests of the players. It actively removes their agency. The only kinds of answers you can get will be the most generic because none of us know those people and what they want.The best we can do, and what I did, is provide a mechanism by which they can tell you. And then to instruct you that the methodology you're pursuing is not going to have the positive outcomes you want, philosophically or mechanically.What else did you want?#TTRPG
(DIR) Post #AnBn0euh0zG5vBjMY4 by juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe
2024-10-20T06:26:35Z
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@lextenebris @peter Again, you make an awful lot of assumptions about me, my GMing style, my group, and what works and does not work for us (including assuming that we do not have a Session Zero).Instead of engaging with my initial question, you challenge my entire campaign-building process and just won't let go. You are like one of those annoying people who, when someone says: "I need help building a #DnD adventure!" will reply with: "D&D sucks, you should play #GURPS instead!". And I say this as a GURPS fan.
(DIR) Post #AnBoms3pXJcIYFYdwu by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-20T06:46:36Z
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@juergen_hubert @peter In that situation, the outside input you requested is also accurate. You shouldn't be playing D&D when you could possibly be playing GURPS.But here's the thing, you've laid out for us what your campaign process is. We took you at your word. I took you at your word, anyway. I read what you had to say. I knew that if you had actually checked with your players or had a mechanism for soliciting their input and synthesizing it into something that would work for all of you together, you would have simply done that.You wouldn't have to come up with a couple of pitches to offer them because you'd know what they want to do already. So what is it that you want? Is it brainstorming about the different kinds of groups out there? Did you want some good setups that you could give to the people you intend to play with, generated by people who have no idea what those people want or like or have history with?Do you just resent the fact that I keep pointing out that these questions are not for us and shouldn't ever be thought of for us but instead should be directed to the players at the table, possibly with the adjunct of mechanics which allow them to organize their thoughts and communicate to you exactly what it is they want to play? Because you seem just as hell-bent on telling me,(cont)
(DIR) Post #AnBoo0YPRbfbBMP3Ka by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-10-20T06:46:49Z
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@juergen_hubert @peter "Don't tell me that I'm doing it wrong and that there are better methods or hand me those better methods and instruct me on how to use them, I want you to do the heavy lifting on figuring this stuff out despite the fact that there's no way that you can know anybody involved well enough to give a simple answer."I resent being put in that kind of position at all. If you actually cared about what I thought, you would ask after it in a more coherent and potentially useful way. But you didn't. So here we are.
(DIR) Post #AnBpJ91tyw28Rj2rFg by juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe
2024-10-20T06:52:23Z
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@lextenebris @peter Okay, I've had enough of your bullshit.<block>