Post AmKYMT92hVCWiUExbk by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
(DIR) More posts by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
(DIR) Post #AmKAJzkQd4hY430y9o by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T09:33:26.277Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza Even the question "Why even talk about this in the first place?" could be a talk in its own right.
(DIR) Post #AmKByeeq2xCYTuLscy by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T09:52:00.575Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza Personally I must say however that the topics that I would prefer to talk about in context to this hypothetical "politics and society" devroom would be more directly influential topics to the success of free software, such as: * Copyright reforms. * Full abolishment of patent law. * Effective legislation to remove or heavily restrict harmful (especially American) tech monopolies. * Legalizing sharing (piracy). * Making sure government money exclusively goes towards the development of free software and never proprietary software.And some examples of more society oriented topics I'm interested would be: * Safe and transparent implementations of e-voting. * Getting rid of our outdated flawed representative democracy system in favor of a more direct or liquid democracy. * The war on cash and privacy as a result.
(DIR) Post #AmKH5fuiH5YaAtwafY by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T09:54:32Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k I think there is already quite a bit of room for these topics at FOSDEM, for example in the legal devroom. I'd like to make space specifically for *social* politics, and especially for politics in a form that is not tied up in state institutions (such as the politics of communities)
(DIR) Post #AmKH5gj3Fvp4h1Un8C by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T10:49:17.685Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza I don't think these topics are talked about enough at FOSDEM at all! I go to FOSDEM every year and most talks seem to be about individual projects and technical stuff, while that stuff is really cool and interesting too I feel like the topics I mentioned are not going deep enough.If you're only specifically talking about the politics of communities I do think that's important but that's not really what I'm interested in. I think if you call the devroom "politics and society" more people will make the assumption that I do about the topics.Maybe a better name for this devroom would then be something more along the lines of "diversity and inclusiveness" instead?
(DIR) Post #AmKHzxfTS541SHehRw by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T10:52:21Z
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@SuperDicq I mean, if it is called "diversity and inclusiveness", it would make it very clear what it would be about definitely so that could work.That way it does right what it says on the tin and people hopping in know exactly what they are signing up for.@drewdevault
(DIR) Post #AmKHzyO8m0nDgoYN4S by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T10:54:26Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq it's not a DEI room lol, especially given that "DEI" has become a dogwhistle for racists who are too chickenshit to say the N word in publicOne topic that I heard which would be on topic is "is it ethical to take donations from Google"It's a broader sense of politics, ethics, society, which isn't hyperfixated on legislation but a broader perspective which considers that politics and political action comes in many forms and is found in many places
(DIR) Post #AmKHzz7s1zN9ydwtLk by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T10:55:51Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq another proposal was on toxic interactions e.g. in github issues and its contribution to maintainer burnoutOr an open discussion on the Linux kernel community and how it leads to the kind of toxic burnout we saw in the news recently, and how that might be fixed or prevented
(DIR) Post #AmKHzztjA3eaN4L6wa by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T10:56:41Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq and yes there'd be space for people to talk about gender and such too if it's on topic but don't lash out at any program which could conceivably include the word gender
(DIR) Post #AmKIRb0dI2p7HxjHkm by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:04:29.113Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza "Is it ethical to take donations from Google" sounds more like an invitation to a discussion than the name of a talk to be honest.
(DIR) Post #AmKIbfhmgY6ukUiYe8 by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:05:05Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k correct. Much of this devroom will be organized in nontraditional formats like roundtables, debates, and communal discussions
(DIR) Post #AmKIce10SD8ZnUAkwC by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:06:27.725Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza Oh that makes sense then. So basically you're looking for a bunch of topics that we should have a discussion about like ethics and morals in the software world?
(DIR) Post #AmKJ7A4dpEEpueQNHM by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:07:32Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k yep, and providing a moderated discussion with facilitators and structured debate in which these topics can be discussed constructively, taking inspiration from consensus decision-making proceduresThere's also room for traditional talks w/Q&A but I envision this as being a very participatory program
(DIR) Post #AmKJ7AkTJhhO0NzmTo by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:08:50Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k and yeah even if someone wants to schedule something like "no one in FOSS understands my gender so let's sit down and figure it out together", I'm down to put that on the program.
(DIR) Post #AmKJ7BX2P8XyR0iZBA by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:09:36Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k I would love to have a session on reactionary politics in FOSS spaces, for another example
(DIR) Post #AmKJHYxW9qmtzL3IDw by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:13:51.332Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza I do have a lingering feeling that even after all this time since the 2019 smear campaign discussions about Richard Stallman can not be avoided if you're organizing something like this.
(DIR) Post #AmKJokCBOxkgOUjYAK by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:15:16Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k RMS is a shitty person and talking about that is on-topic as far as I'm concerned. It's not a smear campaign if it's true.https://drewdevault.com/2023/11/25/2023-11-26-RMS-on-sex.html
(DIR) Post #AmKJolCDgJNLUtl5rU by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:16:49Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k of course that topic would be carefully moderated and would focus on keeping it factual and respectful without leveling personal attacks and vitriol -- but the fact of the matter is that RMS is a problem
(DIR) Post #AmKJolgLsHTj0Lr9pQ by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:19:51.311Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza The fact you immediately state "rms is a problem" I think I have some doubts about your ability to moderate discussion about this topic in an unbiased manner.
(DIR) Post #AmKKHe3HK3P7joLk4u by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:20:41Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k I don't think that's true. First, because I would not necessarily be the moderator for this particular discussion, and might instead participate with an aim to justify my position under the facilitation of someone else; second, because I am perfectly capable of withdrawing my personal opinions and acting as a dispassionate moderator
(DIR) Post #AmKKKYjLZ20Y6PPsdk by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:25:37.923Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza Everyone says they are capable of withdrawing their personal beliefs and feelings from a situation when necessary, but reality that rarely checks out.I personally think for debates like this we might need to find a moderator who stands outside of the free software community and does not know who rms is.
(DIR) Post #AmKKLEG3ALWqti24o4 by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T11:23:16Z
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@drewdevault Personally, I would be against holding these kinds of discussions on an event...They are just too controversial to make a "main thing" and I only see it affect the overall mood in a negative way.It's good that there would be moderating but personally, I'd just avoid those situations in general... Just way too risky imho.@SuperDicq
(DIR) Post #AmKKLEzQRdpDARGJX6 by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:23:55Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq why are you afraid of discussing controversial topics? Here you speak as if controversy is axiomatically undesirable.
(DIR) Post #AmKKLFRQlWE6ZIMgBU by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:24:25Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq sometimes it's beneficial, and necessary, to talk about difficult subjects.
(DIR) Post #AmKKNQQisgsJEC4WK8 by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:25:32Z
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@lanodan @SuperDicq @finlaydag33k true. But anyway, I definitely would not plan on being the sole moderator for the whole devroom lol, it would be easy to step down for a particular discussion which I have a strong opinion about
(DIR) Post #AmKKnLtgMBtIhMyq4O by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:30:48.436Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza I am not against discussing controversial topics and I personally hate the culture of avoiding things that are hard to talk about.I personally think I can be mature enough to not let the fact that I'm at a venue with people who have different opinions than me "ruin the mood", but not everyone is that mature so I do agree with the sentiment that is risky and has to be done carefully.
(DIR) Post #AmKKnU0iBwGdrUKZ8a by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:25:58Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k agreed.
(DIR) Post #AmKKnUifYVQg3otfea by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:29:09Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k btw, any discussion on RMS, if it were tabled, would be less "let's dogpile on RMS" and more "can we agree that the allegations regarding RMS are true, and that the calls for him to step down or be removed are justified" (topic 1), and if a consensus is reached, "why did the calls to action fail, does this highlight structural problems with the FSF or FOSS generally, what are the long-term effects of this series of events, and what might we do differently" (topic 2)
(DIR) Post #AmKLSNEAJcHWhJ7bYO by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:38:09.127Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza The way you ask those questions is already heavily biased, man.Instead of asking "Can we agree..", the question should just be "Are the allegations true and is his removal justified?"Especially the question "Why did the calls to action fail?" is very loaded. There were also plenty of calls to action to support the opposite side, these calls to action did not fail."Are there any structural problems with the FSF?" is a fair and neutral question to ask however.
(DIR) Post #AmKM8GmKgNhirK53rc by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T11:41:00Z
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@drewdevault I'm not afraid of discussing them (I'm very much involved in very controversial debates), I just don't want an otherwise fun get together to get soured by these things.Imagine going to an event, excited to meet people and prepared for lots of fun...Then suddenly people left, right and center start shouting and crying because these kinds of discussions (I can almost guarantee you that what happens at the table, won't just stay at the table).I'm pretty sure that'd ruin the experience.At least, it would for me.@SuperDicq
(DIR) Post #AmKM8HVhxg0583JIae by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:45:48.613Z
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@finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza @drewdevault@fosstodon.org I have no doubt that it is possible to organize a moderated discussion or debate at the event itself.But I do think that when the recording of the sessions makes it way online (as all rooms are recorded at FOSDEM) that will result in a lot of shitflinging.
(DIR) Post #AmKMbrx5YFdIY4E3tI by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T11:47:10Z
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@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k we might request not to record select sessions if necessary, but on the whole I think that it won't cause any shitstorms and they'll mostly be contained to communities that are already populated by full-time seethes
(DIR) Post #AmKMbsbV7zxWZP8Ksi by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T11:51:08.236Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza Good point, I guess bullshit online happens regardless on if it recordings are posted or not.
(DIR) Post #AmKXLnh2iVPACcGF5k by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2024-09-24T13:51:26.413812Z
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@SuperDicq >Safe and transparent implementations of e-voting.Safe voting with proprietary computers is impossible.Voting needs to be done on paper.A vote counting machine made out of discrete logic units that cannot be reprogrammed is acceptable mind you.
(DIR) Post #AmKYAh0zJ30MG6rDhg by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T14:00:42.623Z
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@Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com I named this topic because a lot of interesting things about it can be talked about.Have you ever considered a voting system based on blockchain? Like in the simplest sense everyone citizen gets one VoteCoin and transfers it to who they vote for, whoever has the most VoteCoins wins the election.Other than sounding like a web3 scam this probably has many issues, but it also solves issues that we've never solved with paper voting such as transparency, as with a blockchain anyone can count the votes. So no more complaining about stolen elections.
(DIR) Post #AmKYMT92hVCWiUExbk by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T14:02:47.476Z
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@Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Personally I think with enough brainstorming we can think of an electronic voting system that is actually surpasses paper ballots on all fronts.
(DIR) Post #AmKbs6ZqRSwdqxYOBM by lonelyowl13@annihilation.social
2024-09-24T14:42:12.864720Z
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@Suiseiseki @SuperDicq I was going to suggest an ethereum contract, but then i thought it would bring even more politard shit into crypto, and we're already suffering from various attempts at deranged regulation ðŸ˜
(DIR) Post #AmKcCDNYrX44jyOgfA by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T14:45:49.221Z
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@lonelyowl13@annihilation.social @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com On a technical level I don't think something like this is a bad solution, but cryptobros have really completely absolutely made sure that an idea like that would never gain any mainstream appeal in the future. Thanks guys
(DIR) Post #AmKfA8wwevpcHpeSRs by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2024-09-24T15:18:50.616674Z
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@SuperDicq >Have you ever considered a voting system based on blockchain?Blockchain is only useful in the cases of PoW currencies - in all other cases it's a meme.>Like in the simplest sense everyone citizen gets one VoteCoin and transfers it to who they vote for, whoever has the most VoteCoins wins the election.There are many, many attacks against such cryptocurrency that will cause a miscount.One example would be a 51% attack, where someone goes and mines only blocks containing the votes containing their preferred candidate(s) and doesn't put votes for unwanted candidates in each block, meaning few or none of such votes get counted.I don't see a reliable method to allocate every citizen only one "VoteCoin" without at least identifying them - but such identification will allow looking up who someone voted for.A non-blockchain voting scheme utilizing ring signatures and zero knowledge proofs would allow for confidential hosting probably, but then there's the issue of ensuring that people can only vote once.One offered solution is a voting machine, that does all these things, but the problem with that is even if the machine is perfectly secure and hasn't been cracked (unlikely due to the proprietary software the machines run), many voters tend to leave after voting and typically there's a timeout screen that gives you a chance to correct a mistaken vote (and of course it's not impossible for someone to go "clean the touchscreen", while also changing the vote).Even if the voting scheme is perfectly secure, the will be the problem of how there's an extremely high chance of proprietary software that controls the vote entering changing the entered vote.A paper ballot is quite hard to surpass security and anonymity wise, as all the ballots are the same and go into a locked box that is physically watched and the counting process can be supervised too.
(DIR) Post #AmM8fDLXSDJajEHb96 by lxo@gnusocial.net
2024-09-25T08:22:16Z
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how do you avoid coercion of voters?
(DIR) Post #AmM8fDxTBBekcs1tGi by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-25T08:24:16.301Z
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@lxo@gnusocial.net How do you do so with paper ballots?