Post AmK1OSAK134PlrB2hs by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AmK1OSAK134PlrB2hs by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T07:16:52Z
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Society and politics devroom at FOSDEM?Reply if you have talk ideas, want to help organize it, or have other ideas on how *you* would participate
(DIR) Post #AmK1OTDC7qxj13Wqp6 by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T07:53:26.027Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org I'm very interested in putting more attention on politics and society at FOSDEM because I often feel like FOSDEM is a little too commercial and contains some "open-washing" sometimes.I do feel like a "society and politics" devroom might be a dangeorus move because it could easily turn into a shitshow, because I am aware that the most political members of the free software community are also immediately the most controversial ones. I'm definitely interested in seeing how something like this would be handled and where this will go. I could help organize it, but I've currently not got any specific ideas.
(DIR) Post #AmK5Sd4ZnvWAZfjivw by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T08:34:54Z
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@SuperDicq Topics about say, how we should adapt laws/policies to be more favourable towards FOSS (or less favourable towards restrictive, proprietary software) or solving issues that affects the common person (like making software more accessible, interoperability etc.) could be interesting...But it's highly likely it'll go towards things like gender politics, anti-government politics and alike instead, things that only affect people with a very specific view on things.Just the "typical politics" as main course with a side of software.It's honestly why I personally prefer to keep software and politics separate for the most part (unless, it affects the common person).@drewdevault
(DIR) Post #AmK5SduKhUuzABx3bc by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T08:38:19Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq the point *is* to talk about broader politics and their intersection with FOSS because it's important to discuss these things and involve them in our lives and our work specifically, well, because of you
(DIR) Post #AmK6T64q4DzqU2e7Y8 by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-24T08:50:16.477Z
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@drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza I think this is a good example about why a "politics and society" devroom would definitely need to have very clear and defined guidelines before you can start organizing speakers and talks.I'm very interesting in listening to what limits of scope and such you had in mind when it comes to these topics.
(DIR) Post #AmKAJxLBZxJybBBmXA by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T09:21:12Z
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@drewdevault Well, what about me?Is it really that wrong of me to not want to talk about those kinds of politics everywhere?Don't get me wrong, I definitely feel like we should give everyone a place in the community regardless of age, gender, disabilities, ethnicity, socio-economic status etc. etc. without judgement.But when I attend a meetup about software, I want to have talks and discussions about software, not get a lecture about gender politics or how the government is a big baddie.I'm quite simple, I personally do not care much about whether you feel a certain gender, come from a certain background, miss a hand or anything of that matter.If you make awesome stuff, you make awesome stuff and I wanna discuss that awesome stuff.It's the same as when I go to a car meet, I just wanna talk about the cars people drive, burn some rubber and blow up some clutches together.@SuperDicq
(DIR) Post #AmKAJy5GocBUu6kaMi by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T09:27:07Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq Well, there are a few things wrong with this sentiment. First of all, you wouldn't have to participate, so why object to what people want to discuss? Maybe these issues are more important to them than to you.Second, your sentiment comes from a place of privilege. Taking your example of gender issues as something you don't want to platform -- well, maybe gender issues are relevant to how other people experience the software community in a way that's not true for you.
(DIR) Post #AmKAJytbnSRzQEImpM by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T09:28:29Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq maybe some people's experience of gender is involved in the process of building awesome stuff, either because their gender experience inspires them to build more awesome things (positive) or as a means of building community (positive) or because they experience discrimination on the basis of gender which prevents them from building awesome things (negative). Your sentiment benefits from being the "default" kind of person in this environment.
(DIR) Post #AmKAJzYjKZLNTlXcvI by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T09:29:30Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq people who aren't the "default" may have different experiences and challenges that deserve to be heard, even if it's uncomfortable to address. In your view this distracts from the "awesome" stuff but that's kind of messed up, maybe we'd have more awesome stuff if we took this perspective seriously
(DIR) Post #AmKHkxYZaExClZH3Zo by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T09:48:38Z
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@drewdevault Someone's inspiration stemming from their gender experience, is different than gender politics themselves.I'm fine with people saying "hey, this was a problem I struggled with and it led me to make this awesome thing" but that's different from saying "you must do this and that!".I would definitely be interested in a slight background on what got someone to create something (as that can provide context on the decisions made while the awesome thing was made).However, the main focus should (in my opinion) still be the thing that was made, not the fact someone has a certain gender.Also, you seem to try to silence my opinions by saying "you wouldn't have to participate, so why object?" and "your sentiment comes from a place of privilege" (you don't know what I had to suffer through to get where I am now - and no, that's not trying to say that I've had it better or worse than someone else).Am I not allowed to say that *I* would rather not have those things? You asked whether there should be a "Society and Politics devroom", I just say that I see a high chance certain things happening that *I* would not want.I'm not forbidding FOSDEM from having it, I'm not saying people absolutely cannot talk about it it; I'm just giving *my* input saying that *I* wouldn't want those things and what *my* expectations of an event like FOSDEM are.Either way, I have given my input so there's that.Use it or ignore it, that's up to you.Enjoy!@SuperDicq
(DIR) Post #AmKHkyGWwo7ExtqA5o by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T09:51:11Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq can you be clear on what kind of discussion qualifies as the sort of "gender politics" you don't want to see here?Also, asking you why you are objecting, or saying you're speaking from privilege, neither of these is "silencing you".You seem to be on the defensive. Let's cool off a bit, no one is attacking you here.
(DIR) Post #AmKHkz226C75LE468O by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2024-09-24T10:21:15Z
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@drewdevault Things like "I'm gender XYZ so I faced discrimination left, right and center, here is the project I made to proof that it was so" (yes, I've actually seen a talks like this on different events).Again, if it provides meaningful background to why someone made certain decisions in a project? Sure, so be it but the main focus should still be the project itself.Like, if someone struggled with mental health (eg. due to discrimination for being a certain gender) so they made an app where you can talk to people regarding the issues you have? That's totally fine by me as it provides a meaningful context to why the app came to be, but the app itself is the main focus.That's the thing I wanted to point out: Talks that involve controversial topics often (from personal experience, N=1) tend to focus more that controversial topic than the thing that was made.In the end, I want to just make awesome stuff together and at the end of the project say "it was a pleasure working with you", regardless of the political alignment of that person.And my apologies, it seemed like you were trying to silence me for having those different views by saying those things (especially because you said "specifically, well, because of you" and then later called me "privileged").I get silenced quite a bit for having different views.@SuperDicq
(DIR) Post #AmKHkzjzSlH7XYdCeO by drewdevault@fosstodon.org
2024-09-24T10:24:08Z
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@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq I think you have a reactionary understanding of privilege. Pointing it out is not a tool for silencing, but for contextualizing the discussion. Clarifying things like this is on-topic for the devroom I have in mind.Why the emphasis on centering the discussion on projects? Why not take a higher level discussion, such as on the community as a whole or subcultures within it?
(DIR) Post #AmKWjtKnILHMh5mI9Q by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2024-09-24T13:44:32.841471Z
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@SuperDicq Something being commercial isn't a problem.Something being proprietary is a problem and damn "FOSDEM" advertises a lot of proprietary things.
(DIR) Post #AmKZLYsM0YcC9fZ7VA by PurpCat@clubcyberia.co
2024-09-24T14:13:45.813887Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@drewdevault
(DIR) Post #AmMK2X5xIIS08NJd6O by zeska@fosstodon.org
2024-09-25T10:28:08Z
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@loonycyborg @drewdevault @SuperDicq @finlaydag33k this is why I'm so interested in the idea of a society and politics devroom. I don't have an answer to your question, but I love that you asked it.
(DIR) Post #AmMK2XoGdXtcLo31Ae by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2024-09-25T10:31:37.007Z
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@zeska@fosstodon.org @loonycyborg@fediverse.wesnoth.org @drewdevault@fosstodon.org @finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza I personally also don't think his controversial takes on sex influences his dedication to the free software movement.Because that's the real discussion is about right? If he is a capable person to be in a leadership position at the FSF?