Post AljP9DwRpHrdMdRQES by mattlehrer@definitely.social
(DIR) More posts by mattlehrer@definitely.social
(DIR) Post #AljKreTm1QiEdiOX7g by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-09-06T15:07:15Z
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if you vote early or by mail, but then die before election day, does/should your vote count?
(DIR) Post #AljKvSZcEHc2sAwWzg by realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social
2024-09-06T15:08:01Z
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@interfluidity how often does that happen?
(DIR) Post #AljL0Ndk018d1IDdGi by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-09-06T15:08:52Z
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@realcaseyrollins i doubt enough to matter. it’s just a corner case i’m curious about.
(DIR) Post #AljLDq1JnFXunvfEo4 by TimWardCam@c.im
2024-09-06T15:11:19Z
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@realcaseyrollins @interfluidity Probably always. In that it probably affects at least one person in every election.
(DIR) Post #AljLISs1I9deSCWMeu by darwinwoodka@mastodon.social
2024-09-06T15:12:07Z
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@interfluidity absolutely, the person made the intent, followed the process and got their vote in. And it is not generally going to happen to enough votes to change a result anyway.
(DIR) Post #AljLVSSi7YIwx6sX6u by mattlehrer@definitely.social
2024-09-06T15:14:29Z
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@interfluidity I am finding it hard to imagine that there could be a convincing argument against it counting
(DIR) Post #AljLhDKmBy7JVblzSC by TimWardCam@c.im
2024-09-06T15:12:31Z
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@realcaseyrollins @interfluidity I've been involved in UK elections and I've never heard it mentioned, so it's not something that's routinely worried about here. There is no procedure to remove postal votes of deceased voters before they're mixed with the in-person votes and counted.
(DIR) Post #AljLhDy7pfanTeBPmq by realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social
2024-09-06T15:16:38Z
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@TimWardCam @interfluidity I'm inclined to agree, so long as the vote gets delivered before the person dies.
(DIR) Post #AljLr8SVAoidHf7LNY by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-09-06T15:18:24Z
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@mattlehrer i guess the argument would be (1) election day is the relevant date for determining eligibility — ie if you turn 18 the day before election day, you can vote; and (2) those dead on election day would be ineligible to vote on election day, so their earlier votes are the inverse of the almost-18-year-old, the convenience of early voting can’t overcome their ineligibility.
(DIR) Post #AljM2tWcWQAkRXeQVc by TimWardCam@c.im
2024-09-06T15:20:33Z
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@realcaseyrollins @interfluidity The election department at the local authority typically won't know that, or when, the person has died. If a vote arrives in the post with correct paperwork it's counted.
(DIR) Post #AljNnynoonNyNKi9ku by mattlehrer@definitely.social
2024-09-06T15:40:14Z
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@interfluidity that’s pretty good
(DIR) Post #AljNoKv0akD0y0FD16 by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2024-09-06T15:40:19Z
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@interfluidity Isn't that mainly a thing of practicality? Since you cannot determine who cast the vote as long as anonymity is given, you'd have to give up anonymity to do this. I'd say that would be an unacceptable price.
(DIR) Post #AljOAc9zAVksoMsAam by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-09-06T15:44:21Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven if you really wanted to, you could hold early drop-off/mail-in votes in their envelopes until election day, check the envelopes against recent death certificates, and throw away the (unopened) envelopes from voters who died. drop-off/mail-in votes are typically anonymous on the inside, but the outer envelope is identified and signed, so the voter can be checked against the voter roll (both as a valid voter, and to prevent multiple votes).
(DIR) Post #AljP9DwRpHrdMdRQES by mattlehrer@definitely.social
2024-09-06T15:55:17Z
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@interfluidity I’m still workshopping but the current draft for this is post hoc ergo habeas corpus
(DIR) Post #AljQQashtFqNO4XQ6i by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-09-06T16:09:36Z
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@mattlehrer i love it!
(DIR) Post #AljRvHkx99PN0G6sPA by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2024-09-06T16:26:23Z
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@interfluidity Ah, that makes sense. In that case, i guess it comes down to comparing the effort to the expected gain in precision. Compared to people with for example dementia voting or intentional voter fraud, of course. Can't say what i think without comparison :-)
(DIR) Post #AljSiwK96cS90kFRaq by carolannie@c.im
2024-09-06T16:35:21Z
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@interfluidity If a person votes at 7AM on Election Day and dies at &PM before the polls close, should that vote count?Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if we had to track the pulse of everyone when the polls close, and pull the votes of those without a pulse? Not feasible with paper systems and private votes.
(DIR) Post #AljT6fTDQ2kZgqnxSK by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-09-06T16:39:40Z
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@carolannie no, i think as a practical matter, if you did want to worry about this, you’d say a vote doesn’t count if a death certificate has been issued by the day prior to election day, something like that. i don’t actually think we want to worry about this, regardless of the merits, i think the tiny numbers it applies to would be lost in the noise. i just think it’s an interesting case to think about.practicalities aside *should* early votes by the election-day deceased count?
(DIR) Post #AljWuZml82teOuR5W4 by carolannie@c.im
2024-09-06T17:22:17Z
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@interfluidity Well, philosophically, I would say no, because the deceased has no vested interest in the outcome
(DIR) Post #AljXBNiXFcejtYTQbA by Arianity@mastodon.social
2024-09-06T17:25:19Z
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@interfluidity for does: depends on the state: https://ballotpedia.org/What_happens_if_someone_votes_by_mail-in_ballot_or_absentee_ballot_and_subsequently_passes_away_before_Election_Day%3F_(2020)as far as should? Don't have a strong opinion, doesn't seem like it really matters. probably easier to just count them, but if you have an automated software check, sure, i guess.
(DIR) Post #AljsR6LJiNCRgCwzZY by iMigraine@noauthority.social
2024-09-06T21:23:28Z
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@interfluidity If everyone must vote IN-PERSON that would solve a LOT of problems with voting by mail.
(DIR) Post #AllMTRUfEtHndjJaQC by kentwillard@zirk.us
2024-09-07T14:34:45Z
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@interfluidity Easy to imagine Jimmy Carter in such a situation. It may be his last wish.Imagine a tsunami rolls across a major city the day before an election. Not counting their votes seems ghoulishly pedantic. The dead acted in good faith.