Post AlSof6RcQmHUXs05RY by cian@post.lurk.org
(DIR) More posts by cian@post.lurk.org
(DIR) Post #AlSocvFD6N8nEI9lrM by cian@post.lurk.org
2024-05-24T20:37:47Z
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Permacomputing seems like a solution searching for a problem. I really don't see how it helps, except in the vague sense of maybe reducing consumption.TBH, the older I get, the more I think we need fewer computers rather than more. In fact less stuff generally.#permacomputing
(DIR) Post #AlSof5ZNgQtbpeclu4 by spnw@emacs.ch
2024-05-24T20:55:15Z
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@cian The permacomputing folks come up with some interesting and thought-provoking solutions, so I don't dwell too much on the existence of the problems.
(DIR) Post #AlSof6RcQmHUXs05RY by cian@post.lurk.org
2024-05-24T21:00:11Z
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@spnw Yeah they're fun and I like the aesthetics. It's just that the better projects feel more like art installations that prototypes.If they're intended to provoke developers into thinking differently about computing then I could buy that, but as an HCI person I find myself wanting to do something more practical.
(DIR) Post #AlSogJJk3TXml9tM4u by 320x200@post.lurk.org
2024-05-25T16:26:57Z
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@cian I think there's a misunderstanding :) from the wiki:"Most importantly, there is no #permacomputing kit to buy. See permacomputing as invitation to collectively and radically rethink computational culture. It is not a tech solution searching for a problem."A huge problem we see is that any attempt to counter the dominant ICT industries, is somehow expected to be also operating at a technosolutionist level. It's a paradox but also is at odds with a link we make with degrowth practices, and wile we're not in favour of going back to the water clock, we surely think we could do with way less computation and screen time in our life. More specifically in a way that get rids of harmful, exploitative, extractive forms of computation.It's an incredibly difficult ambition, and that's why we position pmc at three levels https://permacomputing.net/three_levels/ : collective problematisation, practical degrowth now, and thinking/making for tomorrow.If you're into HCI, then I could imagine that the last level could be a space more relevant, and there are already some people trying out things, for instance @permacomputer, @jakintosh @praxeology and a few more.Bottom line, it's an incentive to try things and join forces with a roughly shared agenda. There's not going to be a one-click install to a better computational culture :)
(DIR) Post #AlSogKCglBUpVZbEiu by cian@post.lurk.org
2024-05-25T23:40:51Z
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@320x200 @permacomputer @jakintosh @praxeology Sure, and part of the reason for posting this was in the hope people would post counter-examples so I could learn from, or even join, them. I greatly appreciate the recommendations. Thank you.I like that manifesto, I guess my (unfair) complaint is more about the realization in categories 2 and 3. Most of what I've seen has either been toys, or stuff that feels more like play (CollapseOS is cool - but I'm not sure we need it). Solar powered websites are fun, but we don't need them. What do we need? I'm not sure - I was hoping someone had done the hardwork so I don't have to ;)But I also think we need to rethink what computing can even be if we're living in a post-industrial society with energy and resource constraints (which I think is the plausible outcome). Without fab factories, what do computers even look like. Maybe we need to be looking further afield to Cybernetics, biological computing or even something like Dune's mentats.
(DIR) Post #AlSogLpihYJOYurvCS by cian@post.lurk.org
2024-05-25T23:41:02Z
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@320x200 @permacomputer @jakintosh @praxeology Or maybe we need to be more practical. In the future we will have less energy, farming will be more important and we'll probably need to get better at repairing and reusing things. What part can computers play in this. Do we need low energy weather prediction, more robust (and energy efficient) libraries of information, low density networks for long distance info sharing, etc.And also, what does a positive vision of computing look like. Modern computing is mostly (I suspect we agree) incredibly negative. Maybe that's inevitable because of screens. Maybe we need to change social practices around computers. Place them in temples. Or return to timeshare practices. Maybe the solution to staring at screens is to bring back punchcards.Does that make sense, and are there people thinking this way?