Post AlAWOAaYTSyWSGg4Nk by demiurg@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by demiurg@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AlAGvw8N7k36CiZgHI by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:08:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
A wealth of real human knowledge lives on reddit, stack exchange, etc-- Given the sheer volume of AI slop and SEO fake pages with "articles" the better content is hard to find. This is most true if looking for help on a subject you know little about. How could we motivate a collaborative not-for-profit catalog of the better content silo'd off from the commercial web? How to fund it and keep it current?Basically a *staffed* online library for the world. And not just of books and publications.
(DIR) Post #AlAHEa5rIIuhLgHzqy by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:11:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
The Internet Archive does some of this work along with Wayback. But, I'm thinking of a bigger vision. If I want to know how to fix a stove, or read what people have done when their pet was sick, there are books that can help, but internet resources are just as important. And this was fine before the deluge began. Increasingly one must use tricks like limiting the year, or going to sites with no future to find this stuff and I'm concerned.
(DIR) Post #AlAHUsc2D0m9Px6xEG by phryk@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T17:14:36Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird I think one key thing that's still missing is a platform with interactive courses like brilliant, but free as in money, but also code and content licenses (so it can be easily mirrored or forked) and community driven.Essentially, what I want is a modern day equivalent of the hobo colleges that existed about a century back.
(DIR) Post #AlAHWSZxyHLpFutgbw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:14:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Maybe I'm getting old ... but search is very very very broken. It's not that I encounter nonsense from time to time, often I just can't find what I'm searching for at all. I need a reference librarian, but not just for publications. And some of this information is in danger of just vanishing forever (see reddit)Does anyone think the internet is worth saving?
(DIR) Post #AlAHfuNpxrq85zjH3w by Kyleric@urbanists.social
2024-08-20T17:16:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I feel like Wikipedia is a good place to start here. Obviously it doesn’t have the type of knowledge you are looking for, but I think the basic model is promising.
(DIR) Post #AlAHj4nThgoHGHEWEy by TerryHancock@realsocial.life
2024-08-20T17:16:55Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird I miss formal query languages, TBH.Sometimes I want to do the query that returns no result: i.e. "this information does not exist in the database."Because sometimes that's what I wanted to know.But modern search engines prioritize returning a result over returning the right answer.
(DIR) Post #AlAHlClb2ljkYfMsdM by paninid@mastodon.world
2024-08-20T17:17:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Imagine Mr. Rogers Neighborhood meets VisualCapitalist meets Tableau meets Fortnite meets YouTube meets Reading Rainbow meets the Star Trek universal translator.https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/make-library-alexandria-great-again-sam-panini-ovlyc
(DIR) Post #AlAHpldDMKBZqccgMK by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2024-08-20T17:18:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird State, or international organisation (think "Software Heritage", but for the web).
(DIR) Post #AlAHqumunj8GXGhvpw by hazelnot@sunbeam.city
2024-08-20T17:18:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird without noticing I've kinda thought about setting up something like that for myself, just collecting stuff that seems important to know and would otherwise be hard to find again, though I haven't put it in practice in any shape 😅I had a personal wiki on a Raspberry Pi where I could've done that but I kinda forgot how to access the thing from my PC
(DIR) Post #AlAHtkcj33YdsdIHOC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:19:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Wikipedia is one of the few places that has endured under these changes. Wikipedia is still OK. And OK is a lot better than what you'll find in other places. But it's just an encyclopedia. A very big one, but they stuck to their mission. Start adding how-to guides, relationship advice, and what to do if your cat is sick... well it's not the right place.There is still so much excellent content on the web, freely given by people who just want to be acknowledged... and we are letting it rot.
(DIR) Post #AlAHvhfkzWsXJ4duPg by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2024-08-20T17:19:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I've read here (didn't check the source though) that Google actually made an market research that proved to them that lowering the quality of their product would not lower their profit margin...
(DIR) Post #AlAIAw3TnclMG10BRw by albertcardona@mathstodon.xyz
2024-08-20T17:22:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird The internet archive wayback machine is wonderful to infuse live to the broken links in my notes going back 16 years.Perhaps this is the solution to one sort of problem, permanence; but a solution is needed for the other sort: noise, slop, SEO garbage sites.
(DIR) Post #AlAIESkwfr3yXx0ySu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:22:51Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
We trusted Google and other companies to always help us navigate all of this information. But must trust has been shaken and largely broken. It's not a bad thing that I will increasingly reach for a book rather than search, or go to a site I know ... but I'm thinking about the wider impact of this and it seems like a step backwards. And I think about people who are just trying to learn a new thing who have to choose between insular gatekeepy secret forums... or AI slop and it makes me sad.
(DIR) Post #AlAIHdFu5uHpyj0Svo by Da_Gut@dice.camp
2024-08-20T17:23:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird the internet is ephemeral.
(DIR) Post #AlAIJRELm3anGL8o3k by wernerprise@mastodon.bits-und-baeume.org
2024-08-20T17:23:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Deeply missing “The Olden Days” of the Internet sometimes, for exactly this reason. I think it’s worth saving, which means setting up a “parallel universe” without financial interest, publicly funded. Wikipedia, Mastodon/Fediverse, those are promising models that might work for what you (and I, and certainly many others) are imagining.
(DIR) Post #AlAIVI21nhSaCy1qOe by TerryHancock@realsocial.life
2024-08-20T17:25:50Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird I dread the day that YouTube becomes unprofitable and starts dumping their old video content to save money.It's going to be a huge resource loss, particularly for practical trades, DIY, and crafts. Because there is so much stuff that isn't formally documented -- but somebody made a video tutorial.Where is that going to go when YouTube dies?
(DIR) Post #AlAIWwH7f68nJJsL5M by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:25:57Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
It used to be if I searched for something like "how to solve a quadratic equation" you'd get a site like Purple Math as the first result because it had few or no ads and information written with care. Now you get a dozen paywalled sites trying to sell you lesson plans stolen from teachers or worse? An AI parody of an answer. The feeling that you are either being tricked with AI or about to be swindled into a subscription makes the web an ugly place.
(DIR) Post #AlAIakocD99uvXMQ3U by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:26:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I've noticed that young people increasingly don't use search for answers either. They ask each other on social media, or ask me, which is fine.But, that's less open and easy isn't it?
(DIR) Post #AlAIinApKKpSYdaBoe by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:28:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TerryHancock We need something like a national or international endowment for human digital knowledge and history... that sounds so ambitious and silly, but "market forces" aren't cutting it.
(DIR) Post #AlAIokw4YosHM1WdBg by slothrop@chaos.social
2024-08-20T17:29:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird This reminds me that in the early 2000s, in the days before Google was useful, there were a bunch of “search expert” jobs.These were people who, basically, were good at finding stuff on the internet.Maybe we need to bring those back.
(DIR) Post #AlAItUuTZUHr6D2VW4 by ethanjstark@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T17:30:12Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird It's definitely not just you, researchers have documented the quality of Google Search declining:https://www.404media.co/google-search-really-has-gotten-worse-researchers-find/ (highly recommend the amazing team of indie tech journalists at @404mediaco )What your seeking does sound like the right direction . . . though I'm not totally clear on how we get there. @pluralistic has spelled out a number of ideas for a better web.Personally, adding `site:reddit.com` to my google searching often helps.#Enshittification
(DIR) Post #AlAIvPhptFsrXT2aps by PaulWermer@sfba.social
2024-08-20T17:30:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird well, I liked the post - because it's important. I hate the fact that this is what's happening to what used to be an excellent tool for finding useful information.
(DIR) Post #AlAJ1mQ6LxOriqmVX6 by johnmark@freeradical.zone
2024-08-20T17:31:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Almost makes me wish for the heyday of yahoo. But Google's algorithms were better than Yahoo's human centric approach! Oh if we only knew ...
(DIR) Post #AlAJ6piLX4yPO4izvU by rlstone4dems@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T17:32:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I wouldn't use social media to get answers to questions. But I won't lie. I do use Bing AI to get answers to some questions. It's Microsoft's answer to ChatGTP. And it's free.
(DIR) Post #AlAJAvweJDKvrzN0U4 by evan@cosocial.ca
2024-08-20T17:32:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMOZ
(DIR) Post #AlAJCiD6LRrBqruhOq by RufusJCooter@mstdn.social
2024-08-20T17:33:39Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird Don't know if you saw this poll from @ShmosKnows the other day:https://theatl.social/@ShmosKnows/112979383479493216...but an idea from the thread: perhaps a public institution, like the Library of Congress, could run the robots and create a publicly-available index, which others could use to create privately-run search sites using that info:https://merveilles.town/@aynish/112979409935610816
(DIR) Post #AlAJEeFO3CzG8huDce by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:33:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mav I used to get annoyed when people would do this. But then it started happening to me. "Is this grass bad for my cat?" I legit do not trust most search engines to tell me. I call the vet, I text my friends. That makes me sound very responsible, but what it really means is I end up finding fewer answers and when I think of a question I'm more likely to just let it go since really finding out is more effort than it used to be.
(DIR) Post #AlAJRu9SEKexELS5Uu by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T17:36:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird "The Internet Archive does some of this work along with Wayback. "The Wayback Machine is just part of the Internet Archive, as far as I know.As an anarchist data librarian, I have opinions on this -- the "AI" caastrophe is really a crisis of capitalism and of liberalism (liberalism is the political ideology that supports capitalism) and it's something that is happening in essentially every field.
(DIR) Post #AlAJTPKJo5boCyFZqK by noodlejetski@masto.ai
2024-08-20T17:35:29Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ethanjstark @futurebird @404mediaco @pluralistic unfortunately, using that in a search engine other than Google won't be as beneficial, because Reddit has signed a deal with Google and won't let anyone else index it, starting last month https://www.404media.co/google-is-the-only-search-engine-that-works-on-reddit-now-thanks-to-ai-deal/
(DIR) Post #AlAJTQAmf1ZmpgnTcW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T17:36:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@noodlejetski @ethanjstark @404mediaco @pluralistic This feels like it shouldn't be legal.
(DIR) Post #AlAJdQb7w52d2vtGl6 by waffles@masto.yttrx.com
2024-08-20T17:37:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird is wikihow closer to what you’re talking about? I rarely use the site myself, so I may be off the mark.I do like that all content on wikihow is licensed. I just wonder if it’s being archived. Again as someone else said in this thread, the internet is ephemeral which pains me, but is more often the truth.
(DIR) Post #AlAJwVBr5MkCn8AI6q by cmdrmoto@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T17:41:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @TerryHancock Librarians are the most advanced form of life in the known universe.Not kidding. Think about it.
(DIR) Post #AlAJzzk1xAQOPfodMm by alexhammy@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T17:42:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I think "endless os" is trying to fix this. https://www.endlessos.org/
(DIR) Post #AlAK3vyftB7RtkXm4G by fuzzychef@m6n.io
2024-08-20T17:43:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Seems like a library would actually be the answer here. It's what they do. Could we get the LoC interested? Maybe a new library?There's a lot of out-of-work trained librarians, and many have "findability" skills. If we could raise a few $million there'd be no problem finding staff.
(DIR) Post #AlAKK70od9nSkqG99k by researchbuzz@researchbuzz.masto.host
2024-08-20T17:46:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @pathfinder yes.
(DIR) Post #AlAKLZUiDhBhNcwIFc by JohnnyThan@social.anoxinon.de
2024-08-20T17:46:33Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird Would we try to make this publicly financed? Because doing it feels like kinda the "easy" part (not easy as "done in 10 minutes", but easy as in "the way to do it has no kills-the-idea barriers"). Putting it on continuous stable finances while keeping it open looks much harder to me.
(DIR) Post #AlAKPpbaGJY4VOBVc8 by cwdolunt@dice.camp
2024-08-20T17:47:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Makes me think about how Yahoo was originally a categorized list of websites, kind of like a card catalog. I know the web is too big now for that to work, but... #libraries
(DIR) Post #AlAKS3Akn45HA8h1xA by ketmorco@fosstodon.org
2024-08-20T17:47:17Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ethanjstark @futurebird @404mediaco @pluralistic the chances that Google has a worthwhile result for me these days is slim to none.In many cases it's trying to convince me I'm insane."How do I tune a piano?"> Here are the best prices for tuna fish... "Am I a joke to you?? 😡"
(DIR) Post #AlAKTjOVIQsUOtvTpA by noodlejetski@masto.ai
2024-08-20T17:46:50Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird @ethanjstark @404mediaco @pluralistic hey, you've found Google's secret slogan!
(DIR) Post #AlAKWMpldCXPIew3Rw by dan613@ottawa.place
2024-08-20T17:48:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Oh, I know, we can call the index what we say when we find something great: Yahoo!
(DIR) Post #AlAKhSF1rnwrFx2Qhk by cuzzo@mastodon.online
2024-08-20T17:50:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird if you’re interested in giving it a try, I cannot reccomend Kagi (search engine) enough. I switched from Google almost a year ago and havent looked back. Disclaimer: it is a paid service (they do have a free trial) and I totally understand not everyone is willing to subscribe to search. That said, as a software engineer I search A LOT and Kagi has been a world of difference compared to the crap Google shows.
(DIR) Post #AlALGoE67ReRZpSdZw by kumarvibe@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T17:54:58Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@noodlejetski @ethanjstark @futurebird @404mediaco @pluralistic lol, everything is terrible
(DIR) Post #AlALREnu9w8StxBM4u by krazykitty@mamot.fr
2024-08-20T17:58:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird and Wikipedia isn't that OK. The French Wikipedia community for example has sadly been taken over by sexist & transphobic (and probably suffering from other isms) editors. There are regular upheavals about their insistance on deadnaming / using the wrong pronouns for trans people, refusal to use some feminine forms of nouns (such as autrice rather than auteur for a woman author) to describe women, and higher standards of what constitutes notability for women than men.
(DIR) Post #AlAM5PlYozMwU2F9lI by TuxOnBike@norden.social
2024-08-20T18:05:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Personally, I think that we should fix search instead of building a centralized knowledge space. Community-built knowledge systems are the way to go, but I believe that to ensure they can exist indefinitely with minimal risk of shutdown, we need the knowledge to be decentralized. Perhaps we should even embrace the idea of the fediverse and federate our websites. I think a truly decentralized and federated internet is what we should strive for.
(DIR) Post #AlAM9EKTHlWOAeOMwS by foolishowl@social.coop
2024-08-20T18:06:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I've been using SearXNG, a proxy that uses different search engines and collates the results. It doesn't solve the problem but it does improve your chances of getting meaningful results.https://searx.space/
(DIR) Post #AlAMF5PfLgMgFsc8w4 by bug@chitter.xyz
2024-08-20T18:07:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird hmmm y'know tim berners-lee still technically runs https://vlib.org/ and now he's got his "world wide web foundation", just need to get them to allocate the resources
(DIR) Post #AlAMGwUbU9e5AUoD68 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T18:07:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@johntimaeus I don't know. I will just keep bringing this up until I find something I can do that lets me feel like I'm helping to fix it.
(DIR) Post #AlAMLGkU7Dad9MIg3k by mahryekuh@fosstodon.org
2024-08-20T18:08:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I've had many a student who would rather ask ChatGPT than read the documentation on anything.
(DIR) Post #AlAMxnf6C3meET9bqC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T18:15:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mapachin @arrrg Yes, it's the curation and indexing that's missing more than anything. I just long for a reference librarian of the internet.
(DIR) Post #AlANSX5XrZr7o9B82i by valdelane@mas.to
2024-08-20T18:21:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I stumbled onto this this earlier today: a qualified list of search engines that seems to be kept current. https://seirdy.one/posts/2021/03/10/search-engines-with-own-indexes/
(DIR) Post #AlANivhy5yHQnWy9zM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T18:24:09Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@drwho Is it though? I don't know why wikihow is the way that it is... frankly that is something worth understanding before going to far along doing this. I have never once found that site useful for anything ever.
(DIR) Post #AlAOTfqgsTCLDnL2vY by dogfox@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T18:32:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It literally seems loke anti-competative practices. @futurebird @noodlejetski @ethanjstark @404mediaco @pluralistic
(DIR) Post #AlAPK2cRSo6wtse10y by cainmark@mstdn.social
2024-08-20T18:42:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird The Internet Archive at archive.org has done what they can. Enormously useful resource.But privatization and short term greed and short term vision hamper their efforts.Would be nice to have them officially funded and staffed with no requirements from the nation's if the world.
(DIR) Post #AlAPMrpy0TuaKVJmtM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T18:42:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cainmark Like monks
(DIR) Post #AlAPTmUWHUezmDaDWS by cainmark@mstdn.social
2024-08-20T18:44:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird Monks did save a lot of knowledge. At least that which wasn't intentionally burned.
(DIR) Post #AlARIa46LBExxd0sM4 by ravenonthill@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T19:04:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird You're arguing for an honest Google. It's a good idea but it would be hard to fund. And asking other people for advice is not really a good idea. It's a good way to get very bad advice, rumor and superstition.
(DIR) Post #AlAShj1QHCSwvwJWnw by rejzor@mastodon.world
2024-08-20T19:20:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Wikipedia is kinda that.
(DIR) Post #AlASlLX3YKrnEupxD6 by snail@mstdn.crmbl.uk
2024-08-20T19:20:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird but are you old enough to remember when Yahoo was a curated web directory? Which your post made me think of Of course, I don't know how that stands up to commercial interests, but Wikipedia seems to do okay.
(DIR) Post #AlATLkEfBSDwHSadOK by suddjian@social.coop
2024-08-20T19:27:24Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird I have been wanting this for at least 4 years, since I started to see google going downhill. Been nursing a vague idea for a distributed network of curators that can link with each other, similar to mastodon in some ways.
(DIR) Post #AlATzW1pQND9nlYCki by MegaMichelle@a2mi.social
2024-08-20T19:34:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Could something be made from the ashes of DMOZ?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMOZ
(DIR) Post #AlAU5PrBHeAIOjNryC by suddjian@social.coop
2024-08-20T19:30:24Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird I'd be super into building it, but I don't feel up to the task without co-conspirators. It'd probably be best to start with a group of librarian/curator/CS types and build a protocol and tools from there.
(DIR) Post #AlAUOp3rnW784RZUGG by rothko@beige.party
2024-08-20T18:30:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rlstone4dems @futurebird how do you know it's answering you correctly?!@/
(DIR) Post #AlAUOpqmrdFIWASYVs by rlstone4dems@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T18:36:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rothko @futurebird I don’t really. But I did ask it a series of basic questions, like “what time is it? Or “what day is it? It answered each correctly.
(DIR) Post #AlAUOqY2GpqAgIh5vM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T19:39:10Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@rlstone4dems @rothko LLM (Large Language Model) systems tend to give the correct answer most of the time. This can lull people into feeling like they are doing something they are not. For example I've had GPT make up species of ants that don't exist. If I ask GPT about something I'm not an expert at I can't tell if it is correct or not since I'm no expert. If I ask about a topic where I am a bit of an expert... well why do I need it?
(DIR) Post #AlAViyNSyCxmi4uYOe by faassen@fosstodon.org
2024-08-20T19:53:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebirdI have some ideas where people post the analogous version of RSS feeds. These contain links to websites categorized under various topics. These are human curated and there can be tools to help maintain it. You can also aggregate them into a larger index by pointing at others. Tools can turn this into website style taxonomies, topic centric search engines, and whatever else. Since it's curated by people and in a sense the index is federated, it wouldn't accept slop sites as easily.
(DIR) Post #AlAW4zgSnGDb8HIV16 by cybeardjm@masto.ai
2024-08-20T19:57:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Should we recreate a del.icio.us in the Fediverse, with tags and categories... There are existing tools (like shaarli) but AFAIK mostly for personal use, not collaboration (up/down votes...)[The idea is not to recreate Reddit, but to focus on links + quality]
(DIR) Post #AlAWFvLJH49Yr0cBAu by jeremiah@tldr.nettime.org
2024-08-20T19:59:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird https://www.codidact.com/Doesn't have near the density of stack overflow or reddit, but I'm trying to go here and contribute more. Not sure where it left off but I asked a while ago about federation, so different communities could host servers and there still be some ability to interact.
(DIR) Post #AlAWOAaYTSyWSGg4Nk by demiurg@fosstodon.org
2024-08-20T20:01:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I think information always has a certain signal to noise ratio. Right now, the noise gets amplified. I totally agree that we need a new way of verifying good information on the net. Of course it is worth saving it, since it is a pure information exchange but it gets worthless, if the noise gets too loud. Like a very bad radio signal...
(DIR) Post #AlAWPsgE1qUhUY95w8 by lolonurse@ohai.social
2024-08-20T20:01:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Not taking away from your suggestion, which I really like (having grown up on many real life history stories from my elders & other amazing people), but I believe that places like the Smithsonian, NY Public Library, Library of Congress and other major repositories have on-line access. It's probable that the Holocaust Museum & Archive, the African American Museum & other major historical museums have a lot of online content and stories...
(DIR) Post #AlAWd5HkTSYCLnzbzU by queenofnewyork@newsie.social
2024-08-20T20:04:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @rlstone4dems @rothko I have found it helpful as an aid to programming, especially things I want to double-check. Like "What would this function return given X input?" It is probably unsurprising that the people it probably helps the most are the ones most like those that built them in the first place.
(DIR) Post #AlAX2agCt4W8xUay6y by AnOldGuy@mastodon.au
2024-08-20T20:08:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Used to be you’d go to newspapers. They are now just as broken and unreliable. My next stop is the website of the national broadcaster here.
(DIR) Post #AlAYl6EZ1yO3WAS8tE by dalias@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T19:59:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@suddjian @futurebird This is one of many domains that really calls for cryptographic identity and web of trust/endorsement. I don't advocate holding off on doing anything until we have that, but I'd love to see it included as a motivating application to get us there.
(DIR) Post #AlAYl6lX3Ol5APsTHE by dalias@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T20:04:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@suddjian @futurebird Basically, the resulting UX would be that, rather than trusting some authority who's building up credibility to then cash out, you'd be seeing what sources are endorsed as legitimate in particular expertise domains by curators you trust or who friends you trust to have trustworthy opinions on that sort of thing trust, with these relationships automatically propagating independent of central authority.
(DIR) Post #AlAYl7hfZFGM4j4ttY by suddjian@social.coop
2024-08-20T20:12:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dalias @futurebird Absolutely. And there are interesting algorithms in this area, but there's also some strange game theory that comes into play when trust networks like this interact with outside systems. It can lead to perverse incentives creating/enabling bad actors, or create bubbles severely limiting the effectiveness of the system. It's a very hard problem to actually solve, and I suspect that any solution will be a compromise carefully weighing specific trade-offs.
(DIR) Post #AlAYl8FhWiU7mH04wK by dalias@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T20:18:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@suddjian @futurebird Assuming you're working from a graph of folks you have some real affinity with, I think inauthentic and manipulative behavior would quickly get detrusted.
(DIR) Post #AlAYl8kXg39fJvQi0m by suddjian@social.coop
2024-08-20T20:23:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dalias @futurebird I think so too, but then the question is, can we simultaneously form a large enough network to be decently effective at cataloging the wealth of human knowledge? And how many people would be able to access how much of this network with their personal trust profile? I haven't made any real attempts at running the numbers on this and need to research it a lot more, but it certainly seems challenging to me.
(DIR) Post #AlAYl9IvcCf12ZWAbo by dalias@hachyderm.io
2024-08-20T20:25:54Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@suddjian @futurebird Twitter was (key word: was) what convinced me this was possible. Even without fine grained differentiated trust relationships, only follows, it was able to surface the most relevant expertise & direct sources on important events near instantly and get them in front of large audience.With something actually engineered to do this, it should fare far better.
(DIR) Post #AlAYxgaVh3P7k6igO8 by MennoWolff@ohai.social
2024-08-20T20:30:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @rlstone4dems @rothko I've hardly used LLMs myself, but the times I've seen it being put to use, it was for writing up things the authors were experts in. The way I see it, a LLM is useful as a dumb assistant who is pretty decent at writing letters or other texts, but who has to be told the content of the writing.
(DIR) Post #AlAbBrFT3PvwlhlLUG by MichaelTBacon@social.coop
2024-08-20T20:54:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird For a lot of things, I think we need to pay librarians who work in actual physical libraries to do the work of maintaining this kind of thing. Something as basic as paying them to help maintain local Wikipedia articles would help a lot.Beyond that, the tech that reddit/stack exchange/etc run on would work fine, but give those librarians power user capabilities for things like removing posts, extra boosts for good posts, verifying answers, etc.
(DIR) Post #AlAbVUVVJcsi1rcpwe by gumpfloyd@mastodon.social
2024-08-20T20:58:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Like everything else it is ruined and corupyed by corporate greed.
(DIR) Post #AlAbneLVTRvxkvbkgq by tuban_muzuru@ohai.social
2024-08-20T21:02:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird -from my bookmarks. I keep up with thishttps://ahrefs.com/blog/google-advanced-search-operators/
(DIR) Post #AlAcPbvKvZhpFRT5iS by jonquass@techhub.social
2024-08-20T21:08:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebirdYes, the internet can change for the good as quickly as it has gone for the bad. Google is currently being charged as a monopoly that uses unfair search tactics to promote their products. I'm very excited to see where that goes.We just need the political will to treat access to the internet and email as just as necessary as access to phone and electricity are in modern times
(DIR) Post #AlAewCx8zP4NGbz7yq by rabbit_fighter@mastodon.world
2024-08-20T21:37:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I'm sure others in this thread have said the same thing, but: try Kagi.
(DIR) Post #AlAhPfZjqmzgLPDI0m by clayote@peoplemaking.games
2024-08-20T22:04:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I think the nearest we can get to "real" search nowadays is @Curlie, which is indexed entirely by human volunteers. I suppose funding them properly would be a step in the right direction...
(DIR) Post #AlAjA3vjjRUr9dBkGm by BritishTechGuru@techtoots.com
2024-08-20T22:24:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Most of it, no.
(DIR) Post #AlAjGONGdOREIX5GbY by apophis@brain.worm.pink
2024-08-20T22:23:55.682224Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird i remember earlier this year when i'd ask for stuff online i'd still qualify it with an explanation that i'd already tried multiple search engines and wasn't getting anythingi don't recall adding that recently, it's implicit now
(DIR) Post #AlAkU9l5s7N8ybM7Lk by whitneymcn@mastodon.xyz
2024-08-20T22:39:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird From one perspective I feel incredibly lucky to have been there for the moment where "the Internet" felt genuinely transformative.From another perspective, I thought and hoped that it would take much longer before "the internet" became basically "same shit, different day."I still hope, though.
(DIR) Post #AlAkmaHryg98SxTPzE by taurus@thicc.horse
2024-08-20T22:42:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird to me it seems like you want exactly the same things Wayback wants to archieve.Full archived websites fully navigateable with media and technology to access long gone content (e. g. Flash).But yeah they aren't there yet and large parts of the internet are not (yet) crawled and processed by them but the goal appears to be identical to yours. Better to merge forces than have separate organizations trying to preserve existing silos
(DIR) Post #AlAl9V9VEemrCVUIjI by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-20T22:46:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rabbit_fighter Why can't it be a default search in Chrome? That is very annoying. I need chrome for work, can't totally avoid it so please don't tell me to Mozilla or whatever. I just realized that it's not easy to change the default search in chrome to anything except for like 4 approved options. Which seems like an anti-trust issue to me?
(DIR) Post #AlAlDUuA65sBakDYFU by taurus@thicc.horse
2024-08-20T22:47:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Wikipedia has many projects such as WikiBooks.There one can find exactly what you are looking for how to guides and cat health etcThe tech is thereIt's not yet filled with contents like one is used by Reddit or wikiHow.I agree we need information more accessible in ways like WikiData or WikiBooks oder OpenStreetMaps or data.gov yet it's not a problem that wikipedia doesn't provide these formats but that people rather write them on proprietary profit-driven platforms
(DIR) Post #AlAlTmAhfRdPmEiVcG by taurus@thicc.horse
2024-08-20T22:50:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird yeah you're not the only one who noticed a decline in quality of search engines.The reasons why it is like this and how we got here are not known to me.We stopped saying "go google it yourself" not because the questions got better but because the search engines became unhelpful messes
(DIR) Post #AlArwUMPZEs0exGf4q by Simplicator@federate.social
2024-08-21T00:02:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird #YahooWasRight
(DIR) Post #AlAsjtQv8VSSbvw0rA by beeftacos@famichiki.jp
2024-08-21T00:11:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Isn't that exactly what StackExchange (and the others, like StackOverflow) are? I've been using those for many, many years.
(DIR) Post #AlAxFr2dxlrIHE4iuW by rabbit_fighter@mastodon.world
2024-08-21T01:02:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird if you install the Kagi Chrome extension you can set it as your default.
(DIR) Post #AlAxTzXn9FHIhVNy52 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-21T01:05:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rabbit_fighter Thanks. It's not your fault this is so annoying. I'll give that a shot, the first extension that I found just added a button... didn't change search function ... but there has to be one that does it.
(DIR) Post #AlB28msRY1dR6Xkmbg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-21T01:57:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@drwho @ireneista It's always stolen though.
(DIR) Post #AlBpY8tphYdmOp7iO8 by MolemanPeter@neuromatch.social
2024-08-21T11:10:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I would think a catalog of the trustworthy people/experts on a subject would be most important. If that would be possible (is it? how to find them and get their assent) you could ask such a person for help.
(DIR) Post #AlBuwtsjAr0wphEOgK by tkinias@historians.social
2024-08-21T12:11:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I am reminded of what Yahoo was in the early days: A hierarchical directory of useful sources of information.
(DIR) Post #AlByeYyOZZ72aeOTsu by technicalotter@historians.social
2024-08-21T12:52:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I would agree with you in general. I think (as you somewhat identify later in your thread) that my generation (technically I'm Gen Z) are going back to "how it was done" by word of mouth sharing of resources.I will say that using alternative engines, e.g. DuckDuckGo, Qwant, etc. does yield more usable, if still poluted results. I'd also say this issue currently mostly affects the Web, not the Internet as a whole (for now).
(DIR) Post #AlCaPw9Hv7KQNmwRJg by JessiCum@kitsunes.gay
2024-08-20T17:55:04.445Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ethanjstark@hachyderm.io @futurebird@sauropods.win @404mediaco@mastodon.social @pluralistic@mamot.fr https://archive.is/c1iDr link for people who don't wanna make an account
(DIR) Post #AlCaPx7CKNFbNayHhI by saxnot@chaos.social
2024-08-21T13:58:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@JessiCum @pluralistic @futurebird @ethanjstark this is the articlehttps://bin.disroot.org/?b66cf4f60344576a#2BdpBKWJ7N9XKnq6U135utsmHxPX6YFxcYgJbiHsoChXAlso copied all the URL references
(DIR) Post #AlCaPxkBzORVKXDQTg by saxnot@chaos.social
2024-08-21T19:49:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@JessiCum @pluralistic @futurebird @ethanjstark in the years in which I used the internet so far I developed skills in how to use the internet, which broad categories of websites or search strategies are to be avoided, where to click, what to block in uMatrix, how to leverage third party websites to gain useful information where search engines fail etc.It would be better if this skill were to be unnecessary. It creates a barrier for everyone including new users (e. g. my parents or kids)
(DIR) Post #AlCaPyUHE3J1dSmEJE by saxnot@chaos.social
2024-08-21T19:53:00Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@JessiCum @pluralistic @futurebird @ethanjstark further I want to note that most of this is no accident. Destroying the usability of public resources or making useful sites harder to find is a purpose in and of itself for many groups.Most notably I want to name the "flood the zone with shit" approach which is also a threat to reason and democracy itself. When everything is subjective and everyone is a bot hey maybe I'm not so sure anymore the earth not being flat or corona is serious etc
(DIR) Post #AlCaQ2SITM6BwTshmK by saxnot@chaos.social
2024-08-21T19:49:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
cc @jendrik Vielleicht interessiert dich dieses Gespräch wo ich Teil bin
(DIR) Post #AlCyl2oqiGfI3Fym2K by sfwrtr@eldritch.cafe
2024-08-22T00:28:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I tend to agree with what you've said of search, but since I didn't see it mentioned by others in the thread: I've bookmarked Google with AI turned off via an address parameter. Google AI is indeed a parody of search, so this mostly restores search. Turning on Verbatim in search tools can help search focus on exactly what you asked for. HTHhttps://udm14.com/#search #google #writingcommunity #writersOfMastodon
(DIR) Post #AlCyp4YsB2Qmc6QXqK by philip_cardella@historians.social
2024-08-22T00:29:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird it's worth saving but we definitely need to unplug it and throw most of the people running it into the sun.
(DIR) Post #AlCzLVtI6QfGdmRkMi by stevenaleach@sigmoid.social
2024-08-22T00:35:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Yes! I wish I could re-boost this daily.It seems pretty recent, maybe within the last two or three months? But yea my Google is entirely broken at this point.It seems like there's whole swaths of concepts that "don't exist" as things you can search for because various industries own all related phrases.
(DIR) Post #AlEw75sW6nO6McR9RA by ben@m.benui.ca
2024-08-22T23:08:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird it's definitely worth saving.I think the thing that stops people from making info that is sharable is how hard it is to do.The easiest thing is to make a twitter and tweet. Or go on discord.To set up a blog, that isn't on some centralized platform that will steal your shit, and that is easy to add to, to index, is still hard.Medium is the example of this done right from a business and user perspective, but it's awful for readers and for saving info.
(DIR) Post #AlEwZBhm2RrOXkoAXg by ben@m.benui.ca
2024-08-22T23:13:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird a lot of kids ask AI from what I've seen. It's terrifying.