Post Al5guD3QryrR7WIkpU by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
(DIR) Post #Al1QSkw4vjlsC6uRIO by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T10:42:45.324134Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
“You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion [Islam] too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?” A. HitlerHitler has often been lambasted for saying this but if I'm being honest I understand completely where he is coming from.A question I've often asked is this: as Communists rampaged in the streets of Germany during the Weimar period where were the Christians? Why was it left entirely to the Brownshirts to fill that gap?You could ask the sane question today as Communists again rampage in tge steets and prepare to mass murder again?Christianity is not a pacifist religion yet somehow this notion that it is, that we must just stand by as evil ravages our lands, has taken hold in our Churches. It is madness.Does Roman's 13 really mean we can't defend our families, homes, and nations?I don't think so. So i'll ask again where are the Christians? Why aren't they standing in the gap?
(DIR) Post #Al1R4hQYQHfMJjFzKy by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T10:49:37.029438Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier Absolutely ties into my earlier comment regarding Papism. Baked right into the system - a hierarchy more or less perfectly suited to undermine National Sovereignty. It flabbergasts me how willing so many people are to ignore that - on the grounds that it’s a “religious matter”. But this means people typically believe it - not because it makes any sense, but because it’s baked into them as well.
(DIR) Post #Al1SksNMCtvwOER8aW by Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:08:26.559539Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier Everything you just said is nullified by franco. Also here's what Hitler REALLY said about Christianity and "other religions" with sources. Nice try...
(DIR) Post #Al1SvT0MsKvEtBjYTA by AmonMaritza@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T10:57:49.925950Z
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Justification for violence can be found in scripture and theologians have described the necessary conditions of just war. The problem is you have to think about it and most people don’t want to do that.
(DIR) Post #Al1SvTigDaMr6cSwXQ by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:10:21.047234Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@AmonMaritza @Escoffier Seems to me most people typically assume it’s a *lack* of thoughtfulness that leads to violence. I don’t think that rightly applies to Trad Christian societies.
(DIR) Post #Al1TiZdyyrIlfXgApU by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:19:13.324364Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta At this point it is in the popular consciousness and I'm not really sure it matters if true or not?
(DIR) Post #Al1Tx0hTBOstdXC61Q by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:21:50.926278Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@AmonMaritza I think we have too many soft handed mallets in the pulpit that have never thrown a punch. It's a problem
(DIR) Post #Al1U2z7TyJXWTMD5w8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:22:55.446182Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Honestly, I don’t think it’s at all impossible for a man to hold both sets of opinions. As I’ve pointed out several times today, already, Adolf Hitler had to deal with with the fact that his most ardent opponents came from the very Communion he was born and Baptized in. Furthermore, he was fighting for a country divided nearly equally into two competing “Christianities“ that had warred with each other for centuries.
(DIR) Post #Al1UJgXUJ6JvljKyfI by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:25:56.805149Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Some of my worst enemies are squatting in pulpits.
(DIR) Post #Al1UTzZMPMV7ga7znc by Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:27:48.242527Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier Its not. Only American wn's think Hitler like that. Amern bad Hitler is a jewish construct and American good Hitler is a Rockwell construct. The rest of the world knows that Hitler specifically build more churches in Germany post modernity, church attendance skyrocketed during his rule and the o ly weirdos were the cult of himler who both Hitler and goebbels laughed at constantly.
(DIR) Post #Al1UiLgYyf5KKeLJaa by Appalachian_Crusader@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:30:24.238016Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta tbh it looks like he loved Jesus but didn't like the organized Christianity in his country, which is a fair assessment, considering how much damage 19th century and early 20th century German theologians had done to Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity as a whole
(DIR) Post #Al1UjW0w3sA6egQbL6 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:30:36.899297Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Taking into account the relative insignificance-in-size of my own Communion, it’s easy to see why I’d be so impatient with constant myriad attempts from so many angles to treat “Christianity“ like some monolithic thing.
(DIR) Post #Al1VKuRgBmrz8slgqO by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:37:22.307296Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier You talk like someone who hasn't read anything about he last 500 years. Where is the Church?Drowned in the Loire by the French. Hanged, drawn, and quartered by Henry, Elizabeth, and Cromwell. Skinned alive, then shot by the Mexicans. Crucified, or exhumed and displayed in public by the Spanish Republicans. Reduced by violence to a couple square miles in Rome by the Italians. Purposely removed from the public conversation by the cunts who wrote the American Constitution.All this murder for centuries and you wonder why there is no Bernard of Clairvaux riling up a Crusade, or Simon de Montfort expelling the trannies, or Templars slaughtering invaders at Las Navas de Tolosa, or Edward expelling the shapeshifters from the realm.The roots of the tree are cut, why no flowers?Men with guns have been winning a murderous war against the ability of the Church to do anything at all in the secular world, but you wonder what is wrong with the Christians.
(DIR) Post #Al1WFLLHNHnKmHgU9Q by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:47:34.275656Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Appalachian_Crusader @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Adolf Hitler - largely through no fault of his own, but rather as a man riding atop a wave larger than he could conceive of - chose a similar path in this way as Henry VIII; creating a new “Christianity” from what he had inherited, in order to better accomplish his (admittedly noble and admirable) political ambitions. As it turns out, his “Positive Christianity“, in spite of it’s many excellent and reasonable points, is simply nothing less than a pro-German National Ecumenism. This turned out to be the Final Issue of the West - our last salvo against the enemies of Christ, as the First Crusade had been our first (and best, imo).
(DIR) Post #Al1X16kquicpR3QDbM by InvictusManeo@poa.st
2024-08-16T11:56:11.547127Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @Escoffier Non europeans will struggle trying to comprehend what National Socialism was about, how it worked, what it aimed.Hitler was a Christian, the NSDAP wasn't, despite starting in Bavaria which was a christian stronghold.One century ago the church wasn't as bad as it is today, wasn't perfect either, German Christians under the zentrums weren't that effective at fighting the jewish communists, there had to be another way, NSDAP goal was mainly social restructuring, remove the damaged parts and rebuild the German society around new solid principles that couldn't be jewified, but christians and liberals expected the NSDAP to clear the communists problem and give power back to them.Italy and Spain didn't needed that, their situation wasn't at Weimar levels of being shitty, so they compromised with the Catholic Church for the wellbeing of their population, Italian fascism inherited the non-expedit issue between the state and the church, Mussolini solved that too. In Germany, given the situation, which was considerably harder, the church didn't supported the NSDAP and particularly the catholics were a bit hassled about it.Then we must differentiate also between the SA (more of a loose collection of political activists) and the SS (a perfected political-military organization) or the other structures, particularly the Jugend or the DFO that were competing directly with the church structure and "mandates".The church wasn't happy about the Ahnenerbe, and asked for it to be shut down more than it was legitimate from them to, this, obviously, caused even more fighting because Himmler wanted the roman church out of Germany (Mussolini persuaded Hitler against it).NSDAP was never anti-christian either, but was strongly against the decadence that some christians allowed in their nation, if Christians had stood up that Weimar shit could've been stopped much earlier.
(DIR) Post #Al1XrMwZy59mhfpKhk by InvictusManeo@poa.st
2024-08-16T12:05:38.932673Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta > he was fighting for a country divided nearly equally into two competing “Christianities“ that had warred with each other for centuriesThis, this point is fundamental and is being greatly missed by too many.The NSDAP was born in Bavaria (blutfahne and so on), the zentrumspartei was the main political actor of that time and allowed the weimar republic to reach a point of no return.Fascism is fundamentally political action, NSDAP is political action aimed at societal restructuring, one prevents the infection, the other cures it.I simplify a bit further: Italian fascists did not needed to restructure Italy, they beat the communists before they managed to take power, German NSDAP NEEDED to restructure, scrap, rebuild along the path because the communists and the jews had took over and infected large swathes of the societal body with their insane ideas.Another analogy could be this one; Italian communists were a sprain, German communists were a multiple fracture.
(DIR) Post #Al1cOhmPv8LyhME13o by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T12:56:29.621799Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Sulla_Felix Remind me why did the Christians come to America again? (hint: 2A)
(DIR) Post #Al1cVNFQelxR2vyW7U by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T12:57:41.925512Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Sulla_Felix I would remind you as well, oh font of knowledge, of the Marburg confession, and the kings that were cut down because of it? That trend didn't only go one way?
(DIR) Post #Al1cvUNYlXRWgzEN4C by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:02:25.108626Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@InvictusManeo @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Thank you for understanding, and for divulging these details; I’ve got a decent handle on broad, sweeping generalities on a global scale; but I bog down in details trying to pin it on its specific instances, thus losing the big picture. My point in all this isn’t to antagonize Roman Catholics, or other Communions of Christians; but rather to explain what’s overwhelmingly apparent to True Orthodoxy - which doesn’t occur to people if it doesn’t ever get said.
(DIR) Post #Al1d5KAtYllPwLzs12 by givenup@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:04:11.909021Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @Escoffier "pagan larpers arguing with Christians is a jewish psyop" - adolf hitler
(DIR) Post #Al1dagldbwFGzG8fBI by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:09:51.866366Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier Oh. Yes. You're repeating that story you were told in school about the search for religious freedom leading men of conscience to brave the seas and establish a new nation. That's charming.But the point is that one can't really complain that Christendom isn't doing Christendom things when Christendom lost a long and bloody war to... well, to the people who wanted things to be exactly as they are now.
(DIR) Post #Al1eMn6fLSuyY0uYxk by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:18:33.470978Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Sulla_Felix Uh, are you saying persecuted Christians didn't come to America to escape persecution?
(DIR) Post #Al1eZo9kkltPZHYvJY by CatLord@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:20:54.619164Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier They were in the Freikorps
(DIR) Post #Al1ef7KQtmvCTg5b8a by InvictusManeo@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:21:52.179506Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Catholic church never liked to contend power and space, but really due to a certain type of doctrinal baggage they can't be effective at stopping the jews.Fascism was willing to negotiate, Germany couldn't do as much because, as you correctly noted, there were protestants too and it made sense to organize a come together under the NSDAP than under Rome's church. As an example, mobilizing youth and women into the NSDAP frame was very disliked by both churches, for they considered those as their exclusive subjects in the cultural aspect.
(DIR) Post #Al1efZ6vbakwdtzCyW by EssentialUtinsil@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:21:57.076592Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix thats why my family came here in the 1800s
(DIR) Post #Al1epUd77UvLdom61g by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:23:44.719898Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@CatLord I'm not aware of that how do you know that?Here is an example of pastors not being cucks...wallbuilders.com/resource/black-robe-regiment-hub/
(DIR) Post #Al1eySSMZOgpVU1MSe by CatLord@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:25:21.948745Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier Because most of Germany was Christian at the time. Thus the Christian response was the Freikorps.
(DIR) Post #Al1fDPPEC5zOOCgRm4 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:28:03.992473Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@CatLord I mean, ok. not super persuasive. My point is where was the Church not individual Christians? I'd put it this way if Hitlers quote was a true one I understand it and agree.
(DIR) Post #Al1fSQYIDNQMHv5Keu by DoubleD@merovingian.club
2024-08-16T11:41:17Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier I think that many people do not understand that only intellectually can culture, religion, and philosophy be separated. Practically, they are interwoven in people's lives. Perhaps this is why they believe that an alternate power hierarchy as found in the Papacy and its bureaucracy is simply "religious" rather than political. (Calling it a bureaucracy is not a slight either; I'm referencing it in the same context as Ludwig von Misus.)
(DIR) Post #Al1fSRXGYgCHL1c1hI by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:30:46.488001Z
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@DoubleD @Escoffier I have some strong and likely irritating points I regularly level against the Papal Church and Hierarchy — but I absolutely do not intend to do so mean-spiritedly. I recognize Rome bears a historically unique share of responsibility for the course of our history over the last millennium; theirs in the very cornerstone of Western spiritual unity, and they remain the largest single religious entity in the world. I do not *blame* them for the many hard choices they had to make. I cannot pretend to know for certain whether they or anyone else “could have done better”. My intention here is all fairness and due respect. That said, in hindsight, through True Orthodox eyes, a very long list of undortunate mistakes and missteps have resulted in grave and tragic realities, that our children and children’s children will feel far more acutely than we shall. Whether they intended to or not, their worst legacy was the utter debasement of White European National Sovereignty - at just such a time as we’d need it most.
(DIR) Post #Al1fSSQZF4Qu6XUBtY by EssentialUtinsil@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:30:47.205134Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier in the US, half a million men were killed in two world wars, almost all of which were at least on paper Christians. shortly after that came more war, and then with so many strong men gone from the ranks of churches, came the 2nd Vatican Council along with Zionism infecting the Protestant churches.
(DIR) Post #Al1fTdhmnUa7N56TMu by CatLord@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:31:00.054396Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier No idea what the churches were doing during that time. It's a good question actually
(DIR) Post #Al1gsy18VwxpYtnNBI by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T13:46:46.956630Z
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@InvictusManeo @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta If anyone *could* have successfully overcome the innate and fundamental logical conflict that exists between Roman Catholicism and National Sovereignty, it would have been Adolf Hitler. I see no reason to believe otherwise. And I believe this was so, by Divine Providence. I‘m wholeheartedly convinced these events were specifically ordained by the Almighty God, to highlight *exactly* where Western Christianity had deviated from the Deposit of Faith, *and* precisely why it matters. I am unshakable in my conviction, that the only meaningful way to correct the situation, is Repentance, Prayer for forgiveness, and likely a great many tears from sincerely contrite hearts.
(DIR) Post #Al1nji5F5NRzDWFUem by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T14:56:08.840319Z
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I didn't even know anything about Vatican II until this year.
(DIR) Post #Al1njia5Ei7WlAg7jE by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T14:56:30.112571Z
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It's a shit
(DIR) Post #Al1njjGcgY9Et6a62C by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T14:57:12.325177Z
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Yes, it is.
(DIR) Post #Al1njjqQXQmug9KgqG by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:03:32.530543Z
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@mjdigspigs @Bead2 @DoubleD @Escoffier Oh for sure; and that’s just one recent problem that’s cropped up. The Filioque, Papal Supremacy, Created Grace, the Gregorian Calendar, and the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos all undeniably predate Vatican II - and all represent clear deviation from the ancient Catholic Faith.
(DIR) Post #Al1o7TNbPEMqZ1ASHI by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T14:58:12.798805Z
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There are traditionalist parishes and organization like SSPX, but they fall in and out of acceptance with the Vatican.
(DIR) Post #Al1o7Ty7DTZgOGFcBs by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T14:59:51.060176Z
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Stopped in my Parish for a quick minute while out. I miss Mass but, I can't tolerate this Pope.
(DIR) Post #Al1o7UXZ5fvmACpvRg by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:05:08.075606Z
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It's less the Pope and more the College of Cardinals. Unironically it is the African and Asian Arch Diocese that are holding back the subversive Jesuits from gutting the Church like you see with so many other denominations of Christianity like Episcopalian, Anglican, and Lutherans. The Catholic Church is a really bad place right now, but it would be so much worse if it wasn't for a bunch of niggers and chinks absolutely rejecting all the faggot shit.Slowly but surely there is a growing push back from the bottom up. My Diocese is one of the most pozzed in the country, Oregon with the Arch Diocese in Portland. Despite that the Parish Priests and the Bishops recognize that trying to appeal to the lumpenprole does the Church no good as it only drives away the faithful. When the Pope held a Synod a couple of years back our Arch Bishop wrote his entire opinion to basically state that the people advocating for progressive policies have no faith, they refuse to stop sinning, and their only goal is to gut and kill the Church.
(DIR) Post #Al1o7V2PF0bJhrGYW8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:07:50.107078Z
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@Bead2 @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Escoffier Honestly grateful to see the pushback; like brilliant point of light against the darkest backdrop.
(DIR) Post #Al1oVEJz2nhgoLnrdo by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:12:08.023642Z
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@mjdigspigs @Bead2 @DoubleD @Escoffier My my, I’m salty today 😅
(DIR) Post #Al1oZai5kFPvPJ9vhg by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:09:37.451845Z
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I swear the Priest who visited my Mom when she was in hospice, then did her funeral was a faggot. The Priest I was able to get in the hospital when my Husband was dying was Haitian. Couldn't understand a word he said, Neal probably got a kick out of it, coma and all.
(DIR) Post #Al1oZbLRNwtPNLZM2K by Thickasabrick@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:12:55.171093Z
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@mjdigspigs @Bead2 @DoubleD @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica I'm seeing the same thing with doctors.....I wonder if there is a connection...
(DIR) Post #Al1on9lMjMk9t09v4C by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:00:27.395818Z
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Yeah well, he's a heretic, so....
(DIR) Post #Al1onAiZBG6AqbrCLI by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:15:22.272978Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Bead2 @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica A heretic and a communist.
(DIR) Post #Al1or0Uz7IeMJPKiDQ by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:16:04.202750Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Bead2 @Escoffier Hey, at least he’s not a faggot 🎉
(DIR) Post #Al1oyMbpJF4Oug2cBk by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:17:23.793947Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Bead2 @Escoffier He might be that too, for all we know.
(DIR) Post #Al1p7Ju6jiSr85rYEi by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:19:01.019379Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Bead2 @Escoffier Well at least he allegedly says there’s too much faggotry, and I’ve not heard word of him issuing some kind of apology 🎉
(DIR) Post #Al1pAsjRheFa11Zeng by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:18:50.164428Z
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He is a Jesuit AND and Argentinian. It is extremely likely.
(DIR) Post #Al1pAtRl2thCESJ2rw by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:19:39.575410Z
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@Bead2 @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica Could also be a jew.
(DIR) Post #Al1pYajcGfpp9ExY9Y by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:21:25.195232Z
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That synod I was discussing earlier was basically him asking the entire organization of the Catholic Church to offer their opinions in regards to the subjects of homosexuality and transsexuality. Evidentially the opinions must have been very harsh because he went from publically toying with the idea of acceptance to issuing a Papal Bull stating that transsexuals' are anathema to God, and that homosexuals are living in perpetual sin and their confessions are not valid unless they repent and reject homosexuality.
(DIR) Post #Al1pYbLXzeAz2shqHA by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:23:56.650181Z
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@Bead2 @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @Escoffier @Thusnelda That suggests to me the Africans were probably unanimous.
(DIR) Post #Al1pcq4dBDulsZoXvE by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:24:42.846065Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Bead2 @Escoffier Yeah, I read that somewhere, too, but idk. He's done so much other awful stuff, I don't even care. I'm a convert to Catholicism in 2011. By 2022, I'm a sedevacantist.Makes me so sad 😭
(DIR) Post #Al1ppTbg1UapxoIUdc by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:26:59.866363Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @Bead2 @Escoffier Hey you’re in good company. I, too, think of myself as a Sedevacantist, but from a long long long time ago 😏(sorry, old old old joke)
(DIR) Post #Al1r33qEiKZw3x9Hua by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:25:42.680726Z
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I've been Catholic all 62 years, sad is an understatement.
(DIR) Post #Al1r34c5qOrMSNXVVQ by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:40:39.336537Z
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@mjdigspigs @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Bead2 @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica Yes, it really is an understatement. It hurts my heart and soul.
(DIR) Post #Al1sTEHWcWCzvRxGJk by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:30:40.581397Z
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How did you not know about Vatican II? It began the year you were born and lasted three years. It should have still been a very hot topic while you were going through confirmation
(DIR) Post #Al1sTF93PV1ibT00ki by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T15:56:35.400447Z
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@Bead2 @mjdigspigs @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Escoffier @Thusnelda I wasn’t raised Roman Catholic, but my paternal grandparents were nominals, and my father’s primary school education was under Ursulines nuns. So I heard occasional references to the before-and-after.
(DIR) Post #Al1tKxZmwl2Vkh7Nk8 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T16:06:18.103274Z
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@Escoffier Puritans had all kinds of stories, but outside New England, the colonization wave had little to do with such ideas.And, again, the point is that Christendom lost a sequence of bloody wars, which is why the political results of Christendom - defense of the culture, suppression of heretics like trannies and demon worshipers, removal of dangerous and subversive invaders like jews and Muslims - cannot be expected.Only a moron imagines the tree will flower when its roots are cut. You seem to think otherwise.
(DIR) Post #Al1takW5GomTshukO8 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T16:09:09.272025Z
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@EssentialUtinsil @Escoffier Where are the Christians? Dead, mostly; powerless, otherwise. This is somehow the fault of Christianity, we are told.
(DIR) Post #Al1wJNUTvUg3PKZauO by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T16:13:08.217511Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
My Dad was raised Roman Catholic and my Mom converted from Protestant when they got married. Vat II was never mentioned in my house. I never knew it happened so, I never heard of a "before". Didn't know there was an Orthodox Catholic till 8 years ago. A kid working on my house was one. He brought his 3 little ones on the job as "helpers". Nice kid.
(DIR) Post #Al1wJOOqXvlQE8wblQ by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T16:39:37.823932Z
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@mjdigspigs @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Bead2 @Escoffier @Thusnelda I was born to a jack mormon mother, and a dad that just believed whatever he figured would work best to pick up chicks. So it didn’t take long before I understood what‘s wrong with mormonism. Nevertheless, the indoctrination regarding their vision for the afterlife stuck with me well into my twenties, despite having known it was all a crock for nearly half my life.
(DIR) Post #Al21WyqUqsN2nWAyAK by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T17:27:37.675690Z
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Was blessed to partake in a discussion one night with people, including Tyler. He made a comment something like, just look at "believers". So, I'm now staying out of the "denomination" view. Are you a "believer" or not? Do you follow The Word? or not? We're all sinners but, at least make an effort. Really, simplified things for me.✝️
(DIR) Post #Al21WzdPuzVDFF42Pw by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T17:38:06.790241Z
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@mjdigspigs @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Bead2 @Escoffier @Thusnelda Ecclesiologically, I stick to the strict Traditional Orthodox view. That being said, I know not the Eternal Destiny of anyone here; and the Grace of God clearly overflows sufficiently to bless the entire world. Trajectory is a very real and significant consideration.
(DIR) Post #Al231pkWozIzW8ezdQ by InvictusManeo@poa.st
2024-08-16T17:54:53.717308Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta If the church cannot recover its fundamental role, it has absolutely no business in claiming or contesting the state's.If the state is called to step in to police and enforce basic social decency and costumes, well, the Church is called to support such measures, not discuss them.This was considered settled (not without decades of bloody wars) centuries ago, but well...
(DIR) Post #Al23WzIJNqhA66Jjsm by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:00:31.567130Z
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@InvictusManeo @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Seems like, these days, the large majority of the would-be “Church” in America and Europe, is apparently quite happy that the States *aren’t* performing their fundamental role - and joyfully receive handsome donations from certain special interests with parallel political goals. Of course here I’m mostly critical of the Hierarchy(ies) - as I am quite certain most of the Laity have just about had it up to here.
(DIR) Post #Al24dXuXh0YH9OtHWK by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T16:45:56.832566Z
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He himself is not a jew, but I can pretty much guarantee you he has a rabbi's cock in at least one of his hands.
(DIR) Post #Al24dYkIaZx5jv6cC0 by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:12:54.904470Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica Was he not also a Jesuit at one time?
(DIR) Post #Al24kXJKK4erJeoglc by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:14:10.814375Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier I think he was up to his election; at least that’s how I remember it “first Jesuit pope” and all.
(DIR) Post #Al24rsoEn2jk1HmIcK by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T18:13:46.891190Z
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He still is
(DIR) Post #Al24rtNgfF5pnEMbs8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:15:30.331763Z
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@Bead2 @Thusnelda @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @Escoffier At least they’ve thoroughly poisoned that well, by now 😩
(DIR) Post #Al24vCv6TWd9GEZgv2 by InvictusManeo@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:16:06.459020Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Yeah, modern states are failing just as much as the modern church, the cause of the disease is the same too, but see it like this, both are subverted and rendered dysfunctional, but all it would take is just to place a few good ones in the positions that matter the most and the ship could be righted instead of driven onto a minefield.The methods that worked for our ancestors will probably work for us as well.
(DIR) Post #Al24yBH731Z71mHrlo by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:16:38.723583Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier Is my history off, or weren't the jews in Spain that were forced to convert known as Marrano's?Didn't they make up most of the Jesuits?
(DIR) Post #Al25MS5SC1U47RPJ2m by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:21:01.920802Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier No, you got it - allegedly they had this big “jew purge” sometime after its founding - but the history books have virtually no record of anyone actually being purged. Just a cover story.
(DIR) Post #Al25NiW4av7hMaSfMe by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T18:16:45.165576Z
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I don't know the destiny of anyone here, either. What I do know, is there is "The wrath of God". I don't want to be in that lane.
(DIR) Post #Al25NjTd1UlILIKEC0 by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:21:15.360133Z
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@mjdigspigs @KingOfWhiteAmerica @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Bead2 @Escoffier I don't want to either, even though I probably deserve it.
(DIR) Post #Al25T1cUzkkW3mzwYa by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:22:13.236412Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier That shouldn't surprise me.
(DIR) Post #Al25dydMRBt9z5cifY by mjdigspigs@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T18:23:10.518352Z
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This is a "most great" thread. But, I'm gonna jump out of it. It's making my head, heart and soul hurt. Just be kind to one another. It's that simple. And we don't owe anyone anything. "Nations" is written. I live in a Nation, stay outta my sphere, please.
(DIR) Post #Al25dzOraZt0MPqei8 by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:24:11.899560Z
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@mjdigspigs @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Bead2 @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica Take care, Miss MJ 🌻
(DIR) Post #Al25eWXAOj8V7izFjc by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T17:06:20.931858Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @Thusnelda @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier And if he’s not presently holding, he’ll grab two later to make up for time lost.
(DIR) Post #Al25gf5nY3GoFMCm2a by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:24:41.117651Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier I blame the jesuits for Japan. They were well on their way to becoming one of the great Traditional Christian kingdoms; but the jesuits saw to it that *that* never happened 😡
(DIR) Post #Al25sHQxKw0QLTdpyq by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:26:47.055363Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier James Clavell( Shogun) wasn't far off on his history was he?
(DIR) Post #Al25tdkLrbQppxMVsG by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:27:01.860663Z
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@mjdigspigs @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @Bead2 @Escoffier @Thusnelda Hey good chat; hope all goes well ! 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
(DIR) Post #Al26Dl0mYuWKA1dk6y by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:30:39.804434Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier To tell you the truth, I’ve not seen but fits and snippets of that. I hear mostly good things, but that’s a good one to bring up as I don’t actually know !
(DIR) Post #Al26Jn2TwA6WBbJNgW by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:31:45.424029Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier He depicted the Jesuits as full of intrigue and cunning.
(DIR) Post #Al26R30axdydk3tEDg by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:33:04.062788Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier I was talking about the book. I've not seen whatever is on TV.
(DIR) Post #Al26z2199VMQVvLv6W by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:39:12.591823Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier Oh yeah, that’s indisputable. I understand it to have been the post-Reformation’s equivalent of the Knights Templar; the Latin Church / Vatican became a political entity in its own right after the Eleventh Century, subject to considerations of State. Which of course necessitates all the usual deception inherent in statecraft. Traditionally, the Church wasn’t intended to have to deal with any of that.
(DIR) Post #Al27Ae0KG6W1VsVQmm by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:41:18.498436Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier Oh okay, I automatically assume books are more accurate 😁
(DIR) Post #Al27BsrSVSAtsfww9g by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:41:31.934978Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier No doubt in my mind that the Church was not intended to deal with that stuff.
(DIR) Post #Al27dPpi1g2pxZG8v2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:46:30.439450Z
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@Thusnelda @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier Sometimes it might come across like I’m derisive against Rome; but I don’t blame them for slipping into that role during certain medieval times. That said, it’s so glaringly obvious that the Church isn’t suppose to be a State - it’s maddening that it’s gone on as long as it has.
(DIR) Post #Al280OSFJizELSF1ge by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-16T18:50:39.349093Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BattleDwarfGimli @DoubleD @Bead2 @mjdigspigs @Escoffier Sadly, they loved power and money.
(DIR) Post #Al2AI0XTAq5TICDAnY by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T19:16:15.085771Z
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@InvictusManeo @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta But when it ceases to do those things the Church should indeed step in. This is the idea presented in the doctrine of the lesser magistrate...defytyrants.com/the-doctrine-of-the-lesser-magistrate/
(DIR) Post #Al2AaFO0i5XcYNU5Zo by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T19:19:32.982302Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Sulla_Felix I can't speak to all of these but in more than a few cases the problem was, as in today, that the leaders in the Christian movement are either actual infiltrators or completely subverted and working for the other side.
(DIR) Post #Al2AcgTYxkhj9KF9hA by Snidely_Whiplash@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T15:58:50.070748Z
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It is quite possible for a man to be a Christian and lament that Christianity is not better for his people. They are not incompatible thoughts.
(DIR) Post #Al2AchOHYs4fzEmS6S by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T19:19:59.249340Z
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@Snidely_Whiplash @CatLord I think actual Christianity is just fine. it is the subverted versions that aren't so great.
(DIR) Post #Al2ClZj1d9Xgj9qL9k by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T19:40:35.061691Z
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Did hitler really say that or is it from the fireside fiction.
(DIR) Post #Al2ClaS2vlYSymuIKW by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T19:42:20.984772Z
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@Xenophon Honestly dunno. I've seen it a lot which doesn't mean much
(DIR) Post #Al2DNphGhFXPGbGQjY by somemightsay@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T19:47:27.277255Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
>actual infiltrators or completely subverted and working for the other side.This is like every fucking church I go to or check out.I just, I can't even, anymore.So many of them have actual fucking kikes in them, pretending to be Christian talking about how the jews and fake fucking israel are our greatest ally. It just makes me fucking ill.I'll check out a church and they'll get almost to the end of a sermon and then they'll pop off with some jew worshipping synagogue of satan bullshit and I'll be like, "fuck you, I'm out."These days, I just check them out online via stream, because I can just imagine what would go down, if they popped off with that shit and I was there IRL. It would pretty much start with: "the promise was to Abraham in the singular, not Abraham and his descendants who are jews. The promised fulfilled is Christ and we know this because Galatians 3:16 tells us exactly this..." I can totally see them calling the cops and trying to have me arrested for "anti-semitism" or asking me to leave and doxing me via license plate number. So, I just don't even fucking bother.
(DIR) Post #Al2DNqMkD2iNLEfYNk by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T19:50:55.165496Z
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@somemightsay @Sulla_Felix I very much inderstand. I have been arguing for some time now that we should just walk away and meet in homes.
(DIR) Post #Al2If54VHoUbe1AyGm by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T20:50:03.825858Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay This is a very American Protestant concept. I would simply point out that it is the very essence of atomistic individualism to think this way, and that among all our enemies, atomistic individualism is about the biggest enemy we have.
(DIR) Post #Al2MUwqbPONP3g678a by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T21:33:03.175118Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay as opposed to what?
(DIR) Post #Al2SaQUrCTEIBdvDX6 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T22:41:16.454029Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay As opposed to maybe not being an atomized individual?Someone said something about how the Body of Christ should not be divided, yet here you are blithely suggesting to divide the hell out of it, down to the household level.And then you turn around and wonder where the Christians are, if they are not defending the community against threats. Meanwhile, you abandon your community and refuse to defend it against threats, preferring instead to withdraw. The problem with Christians is you.
(DIR) Post #Al2WK6AdP7tIKUvtEe by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-16T23:23:08.561354Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay all those words to not answer my question
(DIR) Post #Al2XVPoUoRKsOHXOs4 by Aly@poa.st
2024-08-16T23:36:23.553104Z
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@Escoffier Everyone has a fault, even Uncle A. "Why did it have to be Christianity?"Because Jesus didn't ask us to die for Him. He died for us. 🙂
(DIR) Post #Al2ZE9iHcSfLRTWszo by UnCL3@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T23:25:43.529671Z
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Your interpretation of the Bible is as legit as any "preacher's".Organized religion is just another form of politics and government.Christ Is King
(DIR) Post #Al2ZEAH1XISHBDmd96 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T23:55:40.985162Z
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@UnCL3 @Escoffier @somemightsay Not according to, uh, whatshisname...? Ah! Right. Jesus Christ. Not according to Jesus Christ.
(DIR) Post #Al2ZKYVEMj7E3xTZGi by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-16T23:56:50.423004Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay As. Opposed. To. Maybe. Not. Being. An. Atomized. Individual?Does that help clarify?
(DIR) Post #Al3AbYslu5bST2SXUO by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T06:54:29.718257Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Nope.
(DIR) Post #Al3BxJrwVHWuEH0hfM by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-17T07:09:38.137313Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay The way one would answer this depends upon one’s Ecclesiological position. We all know the Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail; but where do you think The Church is ?
(DIR) Post #Al3BxnTsPK6Y4JyuJs by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T07:09:43.393378Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay If it helps you at all if we learn anything from the letters in Revelation it is that even the earthly Church is not above judgment. And when the lampstand has been removed what then?
(DIR) Post #Al3DJ2y87Pse8gpRVA by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-17T07:24:45.967705Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay When the Holy Spirit departs from amongst a particular Local Church, these days it doesn’t typically just disappear.
(DIR) Post #Al3H70ngkqPzkuSgNc by InvictusManeo@poa.st
2024-08-17T08:07:24.661742Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Yep, agreed.This is why (((they))) subvert all possible avenues to prevent this from happening.Should any form of power actively oppose and resist them, it may encourage or motivate other subjects to do the same and eventually start disposing of traitors roadblocking the necessary measures for it.The kikes empower niggers , pajeets, ugly fat women and so on because they know that those, once brought above their natural societal status, will keep playing their game instead of being thrown back into their starting position.
(DIR) Post #Al3bOqR81YHxuNgqO0 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T11:54:44.227609Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay Well, your solution seems to be that you'd establish your own church in your basement, along with your family and some friends. Or, if you wouldn't do that, exactly, it would be a thing that you might legitimately do.And the point I have been trying to make - and the point you seem to agree with, without knowing it - is that the attitude making you disinclined to defend your religious community is the same attitude making Christians disinclined to defend their secular communities. I'll just start my own church, find a better church, move to a different neighborhood, voat harder, send a donation to Trump, whatever, whatever, whatever. It's the same vice, and that vice is sloth - the indifference to performing some duty you must perform. And it turns out, you have a duty to fight for what is yours. You ask what one should do when the Spirit leaves a church, and you answer: you abandon it. But then you ask what one should do when that same Spirit leave a nation, and you are shocked when other Christians answer: you abandon it. If you can't see that it's the same animating principle...
(DIR) Post #Al3lt0qOtO06PrXDCy by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T13:52:14.356826Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay So what should be done, exactly? Fix dead churches? Pry the heresy out of them? I'm all ears bub.
(DIR) Post #Al3lzAnQnsbT1H5EcC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T13:53:21.167122Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay So what exactly are you proposing? Fix the dead churches? Beat the heresy out of them? I'm all ears champ.
(DIR) Post #Al3mR9sjnSkqI9uTGS by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T13:58:24.671621Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Sadly true. Someone used growth as a metric for locating a good church and my problem with that is some of the worst offenders are growing like weeds. Folks do like having their ears tickled.
(DIR) Post #Al3njUaXeIp3g8hlwG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T14:12:55.736826Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I believe our true temple and high priest are in heaven and one of my favorite verses...5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5
(DIR) Post #Al487oTpLGEHPARGSG by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T18:01:25.495041Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay It's frustrating. > Hey! Don't divide the Body of Christ, dude! And by the way, the fissiparousness and sloth associated with that is related to the sloth and indifference we see among Christians when it comes to defending their culture.> Oh yeah? Well, what am I supposed to do then?> Dunno? Not that thing I said not to do? Something else, I guess?
(DIR) Post #Al4AFQXWR3iLNcvR6e by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T18:25:12.606391Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm looking for a living Church. That's all i want. Where do i find that?
(DIR) Post #Al4LIDDJXJkwPn0IcK by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T20:28:58.130304Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay You don't want my advice, but you say you do.For a church to be alive, it has to have a valid Eucharistic celebration, produced by priests validly appointed in an unbroken line to the Apostles and practiced the way it was practiced since the beginning. That leaves exactly two choices: Catholic and Orthodox.Everything else is larping bullshit.
(DIR) Post #Al4LZKCcnydH0tqELY by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T20:32:03.593633Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Oh I thought we were having a serious discussion. My mistake.
(DIR) Post #Al4LtLEIhELxzTAaki by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T20:35:40.764400Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay I told you you didn't want my opinion. I used to work with a chick who told mer her husband - from Mississippi - took her to his dad's church. Which was literally in his dad's house, except the old man had passed away the year earlier and the service was a cassette recording of this dead guy playing to the family and a couple people in the living room.Guess he was just looking for a living church, too. Have fun. You might want to make video of your sermons so your family can carry on the true faith.
(DIR) Post #Al4MNZ0y0bBZQnLP96 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T20:41:08.449735Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Last time I checked the Church began in people's homes? My problem with the Catholic Church is simple it died off a long time ago when it became essentially 100% corruption and degeneracy. Forcing the Protestant reaction to that corruption and degeneracy.
(DIR) Post #Al4Ny3Leo1oXt9z97Y by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T20:58:56.370226Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay Yeah, well, that doesn't mean every person's home just did what they wanted, see? Anyway, the Catholics are about as corrupt and degenerate as the Protestant churches who reacted to the corruption and degeneracy, as your struggle to find a "living church" would suggest. Except with them, you get all the corruption and degeneracy but no valid Eucharist.But you could always go Orthodox if the specter of popery haunted you so much.
(DIR) Post #Al4OGftaE8deeYjXDU by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:02:18.385005Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm obviously saying i'm not finding it among protestant churches but seriously though, why in the world would you imagine that the corrupt catholic church continues to be anything related to God? Honestly curious?And when I say corrupt i'm saying historically it got pretty bad why in the world would that corrupt thing remain Christs church?
(DIR) Post #Al4Q9yp7edYlEraAVc by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:23:30.421384Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Another way to put this is the clear teaching of the letters in revelation is that there are consequences up to the point of having their lampshades removed for sin. Why do you think the Catholic churches lampshades weren't removed for gross and ongoing sin?
(DIR) Post #Al4QsMnrrLkKLuA1cu by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:31:31.691568Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay Because the doctrine is right and the Eucharist is valid. American Protestants think they don't need the Mass, but they do. And they think they will get Real Christians in their new religions, but keep finding real Christians don't exist. Or maybe they do exist, but they are all sinners, except for the new splinter cell of real Christians who will form a real living church.It's all so tiresome.
(DIR) Post #Al4RtUNdH4OI5xzL8K by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:42:56.165671Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay What are you even talking about? Christians are sinners, in case you haven't noticed, and the idea that someone is no longer a Christian because they are a sinner - or that a church is no longer a church because it's filled with sinners - is just nonsense.
(DIR) Post #Al4S38rQ8dXWFWWZaS by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:44:40.848168Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > This is like every fucking church I go to or check out.I just, I can't even, anymore.fwiw if anyone's looking for a "church of baste", you're not going to find it save maybe a few sede/sspx chapels. (possibly also small independent prot/evangelical churches too, haven't looked.)churches are battlegrounds now. if you go, go with that expectation
(DIR) Post #Al4SFy8xIOwOm7qInA by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:46:59.926486Z
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@vonzeppelin @Escoffier @somemightsay They are all run by people who want to run a church. This is what we call a bad signal.The question is: what do you think you are accomplishing by going to church?
(DIR) Post #Al4SYF3p8X2qSJ9haq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:50:18.082969Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Have you read the book of revelation? I'm guessing you haven't or perhaps your reading comprehension isn't all that good? Perhaps go reread the relevant passages to refresh your memory.The bottom line is churches can lose the mandate of heaven if they are overcome by sin. And there is no entity on this planet that is exempt from gods judgment. Not Jews, Pharisees or even the Catholic Church.
(DIR) Post #Al4SmbKx6vZJbA0wr2 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:52:53.808660Z
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@vonzeppelin @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Well the concept was to form home churches
(DIR) Post #Al4Sx6qgnylgE6rzCi by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:54:47.777553Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay Of course I've read Revelation and let me just say that I find every Evangelical reading of it to be very suspect. Extremely suspect.But so what. The jews didn't lose the mandate of heaven because they were sinners, they lost it because they rejected Jesus Christ. Simple as.And anything claiming to be a Christian church that does not have a valid Eucharist is playing the same game. There is no worship without a sacrifice - never in the history of mankind has such a concept existed. But you guys are trying it. Good luck with it.
(DIR) Post #Al4T7urDjHIMDmGs3E by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T21:56:44.954572Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Ok please tell me what you think the letters in revelation are saying if they aren't warning against the mandate of heaven being removed for cause of sin.
(DIR) Post #Al4Tlfr6vOrpHGB5bk by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-17T22:03:56.013099Z
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@vonzeppelin @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay I attend a Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy with a based AF priest on the weekends when I cannot attend a SSPV Mass. I'd attend a CMRI Mass if there was one within 100 miles, but the SSPV are also openly and distinctly Sedevacantist.If the good Lord provides me the means, I'll finance a Sedevacantist parish.
(DIR) Post #Al4Ty4HvuWeeWqdM2a by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-17T22:06:10.346469Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The gates of Hell will never prevail against the Catholic Church. The question is what constitutes the Catholic Church today. I'm convinced it's not the Vatican II child rape cult headed by the Jesuit marxist Bergoglio.
(DIR) Post #Al4UDYfXEpwv633l6u by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T22:08:58.276519Z
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@placebo @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay so here's the question: during the bad old days when the church was pretty darn corrupt and out of control why wasn't it's lampstand removdd when new testament churches were threatened with this for much smaller infractions?
(DIR) Post #Al4Ui7llIfuEe7XzPM by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-17T22:14:29.865765Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Even the worst of the temporally corrupt popes never contradicted the Magisterium. The worst men to sit on the Throne of St. Peter in the middle ages never issued ex cathedra pronouncements in contradiction to the faith.The Vatican II heretics are the ones who violated ex cathedra pronouncements and eliminated the portions of the rites of ordination and consecration.The corruption in the medieval church did not extend into the spiritual - it was solely temporal.
(DIR) Post #Al4UsbBkm7JymfhPWa by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-17T22:16:23.467813Z
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@placebo @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay you think that makes it ok? please go reread the letters in Revelation again. I think you will reconsider your argument.
(DIR) Post #Al4avNsNKJq65cLXvM by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:24:07.371112Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I'm looking for a living Church. That's all i want. Where do i find that?In Christ. Everything else is window dressing.
(DIR) Post #Al4bUV4MZdxoXDhMLw by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:30:28.114795Z
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@Escoffier > Does Roman's 13 really mean we can't defend our families, homes, and nations?No. Nothing Christ ever said denied the right of self defense.
(DIR) Post #Al4buHJAMPJBNsukHg by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:35:07.550770Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Well, your solution seems to be that you'd establish your own church in your basement, along with your family and some friends. O"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."His argument is sound if he can't find a suitable Church elsewhere.> If you can't see that it's the same animating principle...And yet you haven't proposed anything else he's capable of doing.
(DIR) Post #Al4drFe4HoOfGaNL7o by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:56:59.171584Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Well the concept was to form home churchesi'm not saying don't do this. my point is simply that literally every large organization is at some stage of convergence and that should be the expectation walking in
(DIR) Post #Al4du93RFO37h6cd1M by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:57:30.899459Z
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@Escoffier @placebo @somemightsay Because a) the corruption of which you speak Protestantly is common to that species known as human beings and, 2) the interpretation of which you interpret Protestantly is contested, and 3) you don't lose the favor ot he Lord for being a sinner, you lose it for apostasy or refusal to worship Him properly (jews)Speaking of which, are you worshiping properly, in the form of offering the Eucharistic sacrifice, as ordered and as is the ancient practice of the Church?Before we continue: please post the Nicene Creed.
(DIR) Post #Al4e6hOxN5XHh8fnZg by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:59:46.962552Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay Yes, but James, the question is: what makes a suitable church? Does it seem to you that practically any disagreement in style is sufficient to separate yourself (dividing the Body of Christ, as someone somewhere said not to do) and make your own church?
(DIR) Post #Al4e6ww7c3yfsLIzqq by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-17T23:59:49.730293Z
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@placebo @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > I attend a Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy with a based AF priest on the weekends when I cannot attend a SSPV Mass. > I'd attend a CMRI Mass if there was one within 100 miles, but the SSPV are also openly and distinctly Sedevacantist.> If the good Lord provides me the means, I'll finance a Sedevacantist parish.no argument with any of that
(DIR) Post #Al4e8u0DUa9JM59TX6 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:00:10.993826Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay In the Eucharist. Everything else is a larp
(DIR) Post #Al4eHhrE15NeIJ90K0 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:01:46.414169Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > what makes a suitable church?Like it or not, that's something everyone must decide for themselves. Hopefully with the advice of the Holy Spirit. Until Christ's return there is no other option available to us.
(DIR) Post #Al4eO6rzvwtBbfYj8y by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:02:55.885204Z
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@placebo @Escoffier @somemightsay Even the most "corrupt" popes delivered what we need - the proper teaching and proper worship. Frankly, I'm not the kind of guy who gets worked up by having a mistress here or there.
(DIR) Post #Al4eVfKYCzo2VkW8ci by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:04:17.747893Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay I don't think so. I think that a suitable church must have valid worship, which I think means a valid Eucharistic rite. And it must teach correctly what it means to be a Christian. I strongly disagree that everyone must just decide for himself what it means.
(DIR) Post #Al4eYWhMl6E6blYMG8 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:04:48.799632Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > In the Eucharist. Everything else is a larpThe Eucharist is merely a ceremony he commanded us to perform in his memory. If you reject apostolic succession, any faithful person can perform the ceremony.
(DIR) Post #Al4earVgLw2LjWCZg8 by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:05:14.086005Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay now what you might choose to do, particularly if you're looking for brethren, is look for a relatively-better off church and start there - think sales funnel (fren funnel)"ohai pastor dave, i see you don't have a men's ministry / men's bible study. i'd be happy to run that for you"
(DIR) Post #Al4ebdSU5802RV4hMG by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:05:22.508650Z
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@Escoffier @somemightsay > Ok please tell me what you think the letters in revelation are saying if they aren't warning against the mandate of heaven being removed for cause of sin.You tell me. What are you talking about?
(DIR) Post #Al4efDwcsq1ETGsuA4 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:06:01.187044Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay When was the last time you did it, James?
(DIR) Post #Al4ei6N1V6tlqgbV1E by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:06:32.537006Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > I don't think so. I think that a suitable church must have valid worship, which I think means a valid Eucharistic rite. And it must teach correctly what it means to be a Christian. That let's out 90%+ of the churches in the US now.> I strongly disagree that everyone must just decide for himself what it means.And yet you cannot force them to do otherwise.
(DIR) Post #Al4ekRelKYFERh1DIe by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:06:58.012626Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > The question is: what do you think you are accomplishing by going to church?in my case, obtaining sacraments first and foremost
(DIR) Post #Al4ethL6OJZxgwEcLY by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:08:38.355433Z
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@vonzeppelin @Escoffier @somemightsay > in my case, obtaining sacraments first and foremostAgree. Literally, what else is there?
(DIR) Post #Al4exu8ik3kyY7Rume by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:09:23.980188Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > When was the last time you did it, James?Two weeks ago tomorrow. And tomorrow.Though the Roman Catholic Church would argue I never have since they consider all the Protestant churches and all the Anglican churches to have broken apostolic succession.
(DIR) Post #Al4ez327A5ewQBu8qO by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:09:36.404343Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay > And yet you cannot force them to do otherwise.What?
(DIR) Post #Al4f6s3HsBmAgHBQVU by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:11:01.200613Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay Yeah. The Orthodox would say the same thing. Serious question: for 1,500 years, the Church never ever thought your practice was correct. What makes you think it is correct?
(DIR) Post #Al4fAUMrs8XGNs4E7s by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:11:40.251585Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > What?How are you going to do so? How can you force them to accept "your" church?
(DIR) Post #Al4fDPEHQwDHJeRQMz by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:12:11.914120Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Serious question: for 1,500 years, the Church never ever thought your practice was correct. What makes you think it is correct?What do you think "my practice" is?
(DIR) Post #Al4fEb5IqF0ANEoIeO by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:12:25.023809Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Literally, what else is there?suppose it depends if that's the battlefield you choose to engage onif not, then i'd give it minimal time and energy
(DIR) Post #Al4fHz2kDhjXY7EDom by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:13:01.685682Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay >How are you going to do so? How can you force them to accept "your" church?Well, I wouldn't force anyone to accept anything, James. It's a discussion; nobody has threatened anyone.
(DIR) Post #Al4fJ5Cgnk5oweP7lA by Aly@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:13:13.654056Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay Are you in a fite?
(DIR) Post #Al4fNnD97nxYacrc0m by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:14:04.679920Z
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@Aly @James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay >Are you in a fite? I don't think so. But James might be getting a little spicy, can't tell.
(DIR) Post #Al4fVBxlUpNzNqCJGK by Aly@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:15:24.924912Z
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@Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay I haven't been able to catch a fite all day. Tag me in if things get bloody...but I like u both 😹
(DIR) Post #Al4fYiR3DmLMxnZmAy by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:16:03.009420Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay > What do you think "my practice" is?Bro, you said you celebrated the Eucharist. Are you an Anglican priest or what?
(DIR) Post #Al4fcoUMelustd50bY by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:16:47.600983Z
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@Aly @James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay Irish lass just wants to throw a punch. And they say the perfect girl doesn't exist.
(DIR) Post #Al4g0I1J1fnn98gMSG by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:21:02.111531Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Bro, you said you celebrated the Eucharist. Are you an Anglican priest or what?My churches:oursaviouroatlands.org/stmatthiasdothan.org/Neither of which I can physically attend at the moment. But the former of which has online services every week.Do you think God's ability to effect the Eucharist is limited by your physical presence at a specific location?
(DIR) Post #Al4gAsMal0c2l7gci0 by Aly@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:22:56.960285Z
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@Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay it true and I can cook 😏
(DIR) Post #Al4gAvpPsIS5VOCBYO by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:22:57.580379Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Aly @Escoffier @somemightsay > I don't think so. But James might be getting a little spicy, can't tell.No. I doubt we completely agree about what makes a proper church. But I don't doubt your faith.
(DIR) Post #Al4gEumngw7fQns5Gi by Aly@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:23:40.564241Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay So no fite here😼
(DIR) Post #Al4gN2rVY7M8nLwxZw by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:25:08.856395Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @somemightsay The Nicene CreedI believe in one God,the Father almighty,maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen
(DIR) Post #Al4gQ4MqPOXCKh37su by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:25:41.654817Z
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@vonzeppelin @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay But then why walk in?
(DIR) Post #Al4gY9X75RQyfchtwm by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:27:09.339637Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @somemightsay I'm finding it difficult to credit that you gave in fact read the Scriptures in question or that you take the Scriptures seriously in any way.
(DIR) Post #Al4gc3M9zeSsfjRZTM by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:27:51.609369Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay Well, obviously He doesn't need me to do anything at all. But suppose we agreed about the validity of the Anglican Mass. Does it seem to you that Protestants who disregard the Eucharist are missing something essential, or is it one of those things that's sort of nice to have, if you can swing it?
(DIR) Post #Al4gcwkA47LMS6611E by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:28:01.330493Z
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@Aly @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > So no fite hereOh, I'm sure we can come up with something if you insist.Your are a lady after all. We wouldn't want to deny you the simple joys of maidenhood. It's the least we could do. 😜 youchu.be/watch?v=T81CQfOcX5E
(DIR) Post #Al4giOt2rBHdBWqsnA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:29:00.436705Z
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@Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Which part of an exceptionally simple concept confuses you?
(DIR) Post #Al4gixqmrZH1cf44dE by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:29:06.553757Z
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@Escoffier @placebo @somemightsay > I'm finding it difficult to credit that you gave in fact read the Scriptures in question or that you take the Scriptures seriously in any way.ok, dude.
(DIR) Post #Al4gzOpGKwWfv1BkEC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:32:04.821187Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @somemightsay I asked you a while ago to explain what you thought 'remove the lampstand' meant if not rescinded gods imprimatur in the Church? So what's the alternate explanation m8?
(DIR) Post #Al4gzXostiZToS54O8 by Jonaschuzzlewit@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-18T00:30:02.170573Z
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So does this mean you believe baptism is a part of salvation
(DIR) Post #Al4gzYQocgudi5pMVk by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:32:05.994084Z
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@Jonaschuzzlewit @somemightsay @Escoffier @placebo >So does this mean you believe baptism is a part of salvationIs this for me? If so, then yes. Isn't that the constant teaching of the Christians?
(DIR) Post #Al4hE7HTqmzZqdP9pQ by Jonaschuzzlewit@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-18T00:33:01.957305Z
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No I was asking @Escoffier. I was not taught that for the record
(DIR) Post #Al4hE84Ouu7kIMIE52 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:34:44.269457Z
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@Jonaschuzzlewit @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay @placebo I do not, no
(DIR) Post #Al4hR5dFIC7oUxltNQ by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:37:05.019772Z
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@Escoffier @placebo @somemightsay > I asked you a while ago to explain what you thought 'remove the lampstand' meant if not rescinded gods imprimatur in the Church? So what's the alternate explanation m8?I appreciate the effort to pin me with a proof text, but I don't play that game. Your view seems to be that Christ's Church, being filled with sinners, might cease to be His Church. And I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than a verse in Revelation 2 to hold that viewpoint.
(DIR) Post #Al4hXPo7C5jsoBs6k4 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:38:13.627882Z
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@Escoffier @Jonaschuzzlewit @somemightsay @placebo wait a minute. Are you saying baptism is not a part of salvation?
(DIR) Post #Al4hbKeyH3oM0CSjj6 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:38:56.087690Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @somemightsay Well no. That is quite possibly the stupidest possible take. Again have you ever sullied the Bible with your eyes. I am doubt.And you are the master at avoiding defending your retarded positions which are, well, retarded.
(DIR) Post #Al4hhs8khxHFZqVjsG by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:40:06.889478Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @placebo @somemightsay > And you are the master at avoiding defending your retarded positions which are, well, retarded.ok. Well, you may fuck off, then.
(DIR) Post #Al4i3B6HPTDMSiVuvA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:43:58.084659Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @somemightsay well then defend your position like a man and stop dancing around. if you actually believe what you are saying the only possibilities are you've never cracked a bible or you are a moron?
(DIR) Post #Al4iD4VIn2Sotpw3Wq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:45:45.298480Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @somemightsay since I no longer believe you have read these verses....Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
(DIR) Post #Al4iIguVQHOrSmP680 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:46:46.280243Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Jonaschuzzlewit @somemightsay @placebo I don't care to debate Scripture with someone as dishonest or stupid as you
(DIR) Post #Al4iVStUqXBXl01TVo by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T00:49:04.755999Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Does it seem to you that Protestants who disregard the Eucharist are missing something essential, or is it one of those things that's sort of nice to have, if you can swing it?I don't know any Protestants who disregard the Eucharist completely. I'm sure some exist, I've just never encountered them. Even the Baptist churches I've been to at least have it on Easter and most seem to perform it monthly. Now, their ceremony leaves a lot to be desired for me, but that's really personal preference. I would have no problem taking part if necessary.While I prefer a church which claims apostolic succession, that's in the category of sort of nice to have. I don't consider it essential.
(DIR) Post #Al4kxmraOX7HhtlIgq by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T01:16:36.510504Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Well, I wouldn't force anyone to accept anything, James. It's a discussion; nobody has threatened anyone.That's my point. Absent forcing someone into your idea of what is an appropriate church, there's nothing to be done. And using force won't create faithful Christians, which is the goal.So in the end each person must decide for themselves. Everyone must walk their own path to Christ. There is no universal one.
(DIR) Post #Al4p5qhwNudtlPLlnU by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-18T02:02:53.116883Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Why do you think the Catholic churches lampshades weren't removed for gross and ongoing sin?Well, this is pure guesswork. I cannot know the mind of God.But my guess would be that while the leadership was corrupt the local parishes were still performing the duties Christ wanted: Performing the sacraments and teaching the Gospel.I don't think that's the case now. I think the majority of all the clergy in all the mainstream denominations have been corrupted and no longer teach the true Gospel. If you can find one who isn't that's great, but recognize that he's either going to be in a small denomination outside the mainstream or he's fighting an almost certainly losing battle against his own superiors.
(DIR) Post #Al52D6RhZHWU0PXloW by Witch_Hunter_Siegfired@poa.st
2024-08-18T04:29:51.696998Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay I'm not a religious man, IK it's not the same thing but I'll use my old 40K clubs as an example, when a red is running the damn thing, or a faggot enabler, I can't exactly do much of anything to stop it, I hold no power, it's full of my enemies, and thus they can do as they will there, I have no means to fix that, it's the same case here it's not like you can duel the priest to get a sane man in or whatever lol.
(DIR) Post #Al52ggAlobi5Czj92u by Witch_Hunter_Siegfired@poa.st
2024-08-18T04:35:12.391369Z
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@Sulla_Felix @placebo @Escoffier @somemightsay Yes, the guy who kisses nigger feet and praises Klaus Schwab is what we need, clearly.
(DIR) Post #Al54ZN7kRJCe0kxOIy by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T18:46:50.856330Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
You can place a large portion of the blame on Portuguese merchants taking Japanese peasants as slaves leading to Toyotomi Hideyoshi closing Japan to foreigners. The Christians who remained in hiding gradually became more and more persecuted as the years of isolation went on and they began to treat any foreign religion or ideology as inherently anti-Japanese. The final nail in the coffin was WWII where the two largest pockets of Christianity in Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, were nuked.
(DIR) Post #Al54ZOeOlOukkJEyps by Bead2@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-16T18:48:57.309810Z
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Oh, and the Amakusa uprising didn't do Christians in Japan any favor. Amakusa declared himself Christ returned and encouraged his followers to revolt against the Shogunate leading to a large number of them being purged.
(DIR) Post #Al54nDgqJN5Go3yX7w by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-18T00:53:35.087320Z
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>The gates of Hell will never prevail against the Catholic ChurchIt already has
(DIR) Post #Al5X2qkOB3jb05sKki by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T10:15:21.516330Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay That seems to me like saying "yes the head is rotten but the fish is fine to eat?"
(DIR) Post #Al5XYYONxKIRLAhWPA by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T10:21:05.519731Z
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@Escoffier @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay There are at least four things one should find in a living Church:1) the True Faith;2) Apostolic Succession;3) History of Saints and Holiness, and;4) Lives *currently* being transformed by the Gospel. I don’t know for absolute certain that this is an exhaustive list, but it’s something Trad Christians are all apparently on the same page about.
(DIR) Post #Al5Zag74QAx9m0k76W by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T10:43:53.294527Z
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@Escoffier @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay After posting this, I was reminded of Clark Carlton’s work on The Faith (conveniently called “The Faith”). He lists the following four, quite similar to my own;1) Apostolic History;2) Apostolic Doctrine;3) Right Worship, and;4) True HolinessThis list puts better emphasis specifically on Worship, by name. I can appreciate that. Either/both of these lists complement each other nicely. They are nigh universally accepted and agreed upon by all Traditional Christians, in my experience.
(DIR) Post #Al5dxP5KITuZRG1EEC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:32:48.836914Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Imho what is needed are Bibles, believers and a place to sit. Beverages are optional.
(DIR) Post #Al5e5jNaj57UhKX6Ku by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:34:19.217736Z
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay You're not wrong. The.problem today is the whole system is corrupted and failing. I'm coming to the idea that there may be a lifespan of an earthly institution.
(DIR) Post #Al5eU844bBVOCw2NTE by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:38:43.731812Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay This is a good list. And it's why I have little patience for contemporary complaints about "corruption" in the Renaissance Church - which would extend to the Orthodox if American Evangelicals had anything other than a provincial mindset.It's not just the childish insistence that real Christians aren't likely to do bad things, nor is it the childish understanding of corruption - "selling indulgences" is what people who don't understand indulgences say. It's the idea that, in order to get this so-called pure church, they throw all these four elements overboard. And so you wind up with unbearably prissy men who think worship is an energizing sermon and a praise band and who casually re-introduce heresies that were put down 1,500 years ago. It's all so tiresome.
(DIR) Post #Al5eUeWttXZutblqqW by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:38:49.478122Z
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@Escoffier @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Some of my finest, most life-changing events occurred under such conditions. Sometimes we were even in a bus, moving.
(DIR) Post #Al5eeFiV0HOWpsm120 by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:40:33.528585Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Literally every single Christian believed otherwise for 1,500 years, but you've got it figured out.So fucking tiresome.
(DIR) Post #Al5fGBBWIkX1mhQtAO by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:47:24.803471Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay I tend to think of it like a trajectory. There was a good three year period where I couldn’t even begin to conceive, say, of why Icons would be important. Or why some people get so “crazy“ over the Virgin Mary. Etc. And it was really through two things;voracious Bible Study, and;time in Sunday Services that I started to bump up against “constraints” that started not making any sense - and also a lack-of-constraints that also didn’t make any sense. That’s about the time this weird EO guy started challenging my then-current Biblical takes online. And the rest is history.
(DIR) Post #Al5g7kBKuifHfpt8S0 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:57:05.585871Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Really? You know what's tiresome people who appear to want to be a part of the debate but unable to even answer simple questions.
(DIR) Post #Al5gIR22SAAdSzdZVQ by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T11:59:01.529101Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay I get you aren't very intelligent but, and I'm saying this for like the tenth time now, it's not about individuals sinning you moron. Please for the live of God read your Bible. Or don't Catholics do that?
(DIR) Post #Al5gVnpczlovwZCrku by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:01:26.581627Z
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@Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay @KingOfWhiteAmerica this is not directed at you.
(DIR) Post #Al5guD3QryrR7WIkpU by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:05:51.016942Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I do heartily recommend regular independent Bible study - of course with an Orthodox mindset. But I wasn’t always so guided - it was through great familiarity with the scope and span of Scripture itself that I started to feel what was lacking in my cute small-town Baptist church. One breakthrough occurred when that EO guy showed me an undeniable and obvious Messianic Prophecy in the Wisdom of Solomon (which I considered “Apocryphal”). That cut my legs out from under me, so to speak.
(DIR) Post #Al5h0JqmW0w7w2IVEG by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:06:57.438881Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Oh I know - I do consider myself Catholic though 😏
(DIR) Post #Al5hRJySABjc8alGb2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:11:50.225160Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Because, of course, suddenly I had to ask myself a very hard question: what business did anyone have calling the “gap” between Malachi and Matthew “400 Silent Years” ?
(DIR) Post #Al5iugyfocxFplQvwG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:28:20.990694Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I am aware and I have nothing but love and respect for you.
(DIR) Post #Al5j7y1zipciUOJhsO by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:30:44.954057Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Likewise, my man 😎 Glory to God 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
(DIR) Post #Al5j9dN9VAkSzq0Yee by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:31:03.029984Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay So tradition, right? Cool please tell me about your Agape feast?
(DIR) Post #Al5jBrdZR7sXoikcPA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:31:27.238525Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Cheers!
(DIR) Post #Al5jpzkKhrc8YB39Mm by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:38:42.405851Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Hey that’s a good question; do Latins even do that, anymore ?😏I’ve got some cute stories about ours.
(DIR) Post #Al5lAKxHf6H84fN4nw by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T12:53:35.319074Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I'm very interested in the early Church. I think its helpful to study the beginning to understand where we are today.
(DIR) Post #Al5loHyKAltiPBuNou by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:00:48.463957Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Evangelicals talk like this a lot. What they mean is something like, "I like to get a good idea of just when the Great Apostasy began."
(DIR) Post #Al5mcOqyrT9GE9MtEW by patris@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:09:51.657479Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay I was just about to type these exact words. I was born Baptist. Just dipping a toe into the (surprisingly enormous amount of) material we have from the pre-constantinian church--texts from the period or dry history only please, modern commentary is just distraction--saw me looking for a bishop to lay hands on my head within a year.
(DIR) Post #Al5mczN95MGfUKh5Mm by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:09:58.278838Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Oh since you're so keen to be a part of this why don't you deign to explain exactly how my interpretation of the letters in revelation is wrong? Or is that too difficult for you?Hint: its corporate like God speaking to the nation of Israel. Not individual sinners.
(DIR) Post #Al5ntXuWXYdVC7lVWC by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:24:10.090695Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay > Oh since you're so keen to be a part of this why don't you deign to explain exactly how my interpretation of the letters in revelation is wrong? Or is that too difficult for you?I'm asking nicely: please fuck off with your proof-text challenges. Thanks!
(DIR) Post #Al5o7jKorWxMgDpQ2a by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:26:43.920377Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay You brought it up. Why would you tell me you find my interpretation suspect and then refuse to explain. Its odd. Like you. I think its because you are full of shit. You talking about individual sinners certainly indicates you don't understand what its talking about so dont feel embarrassed its already clear you are a bit dumb.
(DIR) Post #Al5oPEp92WtzGTMSRc by patris@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:29:53.768135Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Hey, it's 9:30 on Sunday morning. The Lord's day! I assume I'm gonna see you fellas at the assembly of the faithful/eucharistic celebration later, right?
(DIR) Post #Al5ot8KPkrw1o3F5we by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:35:17.873793Z
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@patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Like, St. Ignatius of Antioch, writing in the first couple decades of the second century, goes off on heretics who don't believe in the Real Presence. Kind of legitimately shocking to read that for the first time, especially when you've been informed that it's just a symbol and not really that big a deal.You'd think stuff like that would be conclusive, but not so.
(DIR) Post #Al5ozz1ejwSQywjcDA by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:36:32.212693Z
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@patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Mass is at 11:00, bro.
(DIR) Post #Al5p73DVYWBq0XeGUi by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:37:48.783744Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay A proof-text argument is always a bad-faith argument. Always.
(DIR) Post #Al5pO3NuBYm7S0cS24 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:40:53.221715Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay So Scripture cannot be debated?
(DIR) Post #Al5qf4Q5goQJXSJs5g by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T13:55:10.053231Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay > So Scripture cannot be debated?A proof-text argument is not a scripture debate at all. It's a bullshit, bad-faith way to *avoid* a discussion about scripture.For example, the conversation we might be having would be something like: is it possible that Christ's Church, once established, might cease to be Christ's Church is morals were sufficiently lax. If so, then how would be know this to be the case? What would the remedy be? How would we know that a multiplicity of successor churches are legitimate? If they were legitimate, what would that mean for the claim that we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church? What would all this mean for ecclesiology? Could we even rationally talk about ecclesiology in this context? Etc.But you're just screaming about Revelation 2.
(DIR) Post #Al5sub2StYnWxMnepE by Largo@poa.st
2024-08-18T14:20:22.978475Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Doesn't the Bible say, like 5 Churches will be "good" while 7 will turn from the Lord?I remember something like that being referenced.
(DIR) Post #Al5uqoC4F9vAVPc41o by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-18T14:42:06.521645Z
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@Largo @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay Of the seven Churches of Asia, from the Apocalypse of St. John, only two - Smyrna and Philadelphia - get unreservedly “good reviews” from Our Lord. Not sure it that’s what you’re talking about but it’s what it sounds like.
(DIR) Post #Al5zWohHA6Ho2uUrvE by patris@poa.st
2024-08-18T15:34:31.229609Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay 10:30, my nword
(DIR) Post #Al60yawdz9nbSOUjdA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T15:50:44.756619Z
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@Largo @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Not exactly but of the seven mentioned only two were on track the other five had big problems.
(DIR) Post #Al61OEZvlWNfcO62yW by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T15:55:22.737330Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay I'm asking a simple question. Scripture indicates that Churches can lose their lampstand (God's blessing) i further argue that the Catholic Church far exceeded to misdeeds done by the early Churches presumably bringing this consequence down on themselves.Your response seems to be that that cannot be true for some unspecified reason you are unable to articulate or debate?Did i get that right?
(DIR) Post #Al68M1OYVf8ppXfTUW by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:13:24.857846Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay No.
(DIR) Post #Al68wkWQCrO4DJrPNY by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:20:03.122806Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay But of course due to excess levels of Catholicism you can't explain why?
(DIR) Post #Al692t1PW7xsJTHWRE by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:21:09.750686Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Literally every single sentence in your statement was incorrect. I can't fix that level of, you know, just, like, fuckin' bullshit, man. I can't even.
(DIR) Post #Al69FhZZOb4OZLN0uu by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:23:28.689207Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Does that line if bullshit actually work on people? Its ok to say "i don't know and my boyfriends cock tastes like happy."
(DIR) Post #Al69ZTL61bxaDU1lZI by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:27:03.094178Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Why are you so angry, dude? I've treated you with considerable respect, given your monkey rage responses. It's poor form. Low.
(DIR) Post #Al69lEtLZBW4soeufI by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:29:10.650711Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay I'm just having fun now junior. You are welcome to scoot anytime you please but so long as you continue to be stupid in my presence I will continue to lash your candy ass.
(DIR) Post #Al6APK3Bo0vuSxNMVk by Largo@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:36:25.361016Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Ah thanks, I knew I had something wrong there.
(DIR) Post #Al6Af60rlSBXYxoJfc by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:39:16.333956Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Well, I've told you that your question is poorly formed. And I'm disinclined to explain why, because you've been such a colossal dick about literally everything. This upsets you, but your time would be better spent figuring out where your error is. Or taking a course in ecclesiology.
(DIR) Post #Al6ArAhGAyXpZ3Ojb6 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:41:27.131432Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Uh huh ok. You're wrongOH, can you explain why?No.Yep completely normal
(DIR) Post #Al6BLkjckf0Q1R5OVs by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:46:58.931747Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay I understand that you are very, very angry that I won't answer your bible questions for you.
(DIR) Post #Al6BgvIkf0fisJbyPw by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-18T17:50:48.411750Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay I'm not even one percent angry loser.
(DIR) Post #Al6ihvMVDZkZq7S1LM by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:00:45.105001Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Apostolic Succession;That one is somewhat problematic, since even the Churches that claim it can't agree on who has it and who doesn't.As I noted, the Roman Catholics (and possibly the Orthodox) will claim neither the Protestants nor the Anglicans have Apostolic Succession. Both the Anglicans and some Protestants will claim they do.Regardless, if as John the Baptist says: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.How much easier is it for him to raise up successors to the Apostles from believers? Priests and Bishops are actually appointed by God. The degree of overlap with those chosen by men is questionable. At this point I couldn't name a single Bishop I considered valid in the Episcopal Church in the US for instance.
(DIR) Post #Al6jLVndg3a48v1LLE by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:07:54.531235Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > That seems to me like saying "yes the head is rotten but the fish is fine to eat?"More a case of saying the fishing gear is suspect, but the fish you manage to catch will be fine.I suspect allowing the Reformation was God's way of trying to correct the Roman Catholic Church. It may even have worked for a bit.
(DIR) Post #Al6kQ5OXNSHreT1aKG by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:19:56.418476Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay > Literally every single Christian believed otherwise for 1,500 yearsAnd yet that's all any mission to spread the faith starts with: Believers, bibles, and a place to discuss the faith. Hopefully it grows from there, but that's the start.If every Christian rejected what that starting point there would have been no "great commission". The faith would never have been spread.If the majority of modern denominations have lost their way and no longer practice or teach the faith (which certainly seems to be the case) how do you expect faithful churches to start except in the way they've always started in the past, by faithful Christians spreading the word?Your argument seems to devolve to "he doesn't know the faith well enough to spread it". Which may be true. But it's not his fault he was never taught and he's trying to learn. Dismissing him out of hand isn't going to improve matters any.
(DIR) Post #Al6kbVa2MQAQ39qlXs by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:22:00.286943Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay > Or don't Catholics do that?They're supposed to. What percentage do I couldn't possibly say.
(DIR) Post #Al6kxWkAiQKi1s5dLs by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:25:59.008565Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay > Cool please tell me about your Agape feast?Many Baptist and Methodists churches do have a meal after the service, at least in the areas I've lived.Most of the Anglican churches I've attended also have a "coffee hour" after the service where drinks and light foods are served. So the tradition has continued, even if the reasoning has been lost.
(DIR) Post #Al6lmH0ayglhzpyAj2 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:35:09.250129Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay In many of these exchanges, you really haven't displayed the kind of fruit that makes serious Christians want to engage with you on biblical interpretation.... I know I'll regret it, but I'll toss one out there. You have said that the lampstand is a symbol of "God's blessing." I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but I will point out that, unlike every church John wrote to that ultimately lost its lampstand, the church of Rome never ceased to exist. I am going to humbly submit that you are not interpreting the symbol of the lampstand correctly.
(DIR) Post #Al6mAxS8p3tyaKcm4u by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:39:36.948916Z
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@patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay > You have said that the lampstand is a symbol of "God's blessing." > I am going to humbly submit that you are not interpreting the symbol of the lampstand correctly. I'll agree on this. I think it's more a case of Christ's presence. And as long as enough faithful people remain with the Church, Christ's presence should remain with the Church.What's the cutoff point? I couldn't begin to say, but I suspect a number of modern denominations are reaching it.
(DIR) Post #Al6mrUFDILQ6RrrBXE by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:47:18.097100Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay Maybe, James. But I cannot discuss with a man who is acting in bad faith. And I believe you know that this whole Revelation 2 proof text line of argument is not legit.
(DIR) Post #Al6nAp2aCOk2RuAWoK by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:50:47.771589Z
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@patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay You make a good point, Jimmy. And I might point out that there are literally hundreds of churches in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria, etc. And if the idea was that the Catholic hierarchy was somehow bad, that would hardly explain why the Church in Burgos, say, should lose their lampstand, or whatever. It's just not even a coherent viewpoint. Which is why I did not engage, to the considerable unhappiness of our friend.
(DIR) Post #Al6nSht1XL2lTPE3NY by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:54:01.431888Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @somemightsay @James indeed, how does one say *this* church is identical with *that* church? Well, a sequence of bishops who have the credentials would solve that, I suspect.The Orthodox definitely have it. The Anglicans probably don't. And the Baptists... child, please.
(DIR) Post #Al6nTFbq9jV63xRoJc by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:54:07.640680Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay > Maybe, James. But I cannot discuss with a man who is acting in bad faith.I don't believe he's acting in bad faith. I think he doesn't understand your positions well enough for you to have a meaningful conversation.So admit you can't help him learn. There's no sin in not being adept at any given task.Can you give him any pointers to documents he could use to properly understand your positions (note, pointing him to his local RCC parish isn't going to work as he won't trust them)?I've occasionally been able to find traditional Roman Catholic positions online with a good search, but it's not easy. Orthodox positions are even harder.
(DIR) Post #Al6nUr2AUuNuQHWjb6 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:54:25.028018Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay They are also dying. The episcopalian church is a great example. The minute they spend the last dollar of George Washington's and Robert E Lee's, the doors will close forever and they will be less well remembered than the church of Ephesus.
(DIR) Post #Al6nbbQkuQQ83aFGxE by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:55:38.262310Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay You make a good point, James.
(DIR) Post #Al6ngXVytYQ7MP2laC by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:56:31.721872Z
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@Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay He is close to the kingdom, I think. Indifference is the opposite of love, not hatred or anger.
(DIR) Post #Al6nlQezo8fVY6akCW by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T00:57:24.778187Z
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@Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @somemightsay @James > And the Baptists... child, please.The Baptists don't claim to. The Anglicans can offer their proofs if you look.
(DIR) Post #Al6p49QsBUFrZfTdYW by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:12:00.075833Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > Orthodox positions are even harder.It’s not that they’re ”harder”, they’re just more time-consuming. But you can find pretty much anything you need in the Services.
(DIR) Post #Al6pmLl9iIXUY22WZs by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:19:59.171956Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > It’s not that they’re ”harder”, they’re just more time-consuming.For someone adept at searching, that's the definition of harder. 😀
(DIR) Post #Al6qnifg77hVqoh81Q by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:31:26.463354Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay @James The problem the Orthodox have with Anglican Consecrations isn’t their historicity, but rather the usual one about the typical Western deviation from Orthodox Doctrine and Praxis. Theoretically perhaps, Anglican Bishops could have their Consecrations “corrected” by denouncing said deviations and attaching to Orthodox Bishops - but the last time anything like that happened involved St. Raphael of Brooklyn iirc - and it didn’t pan out. Nothing personal of course; there’s a huge corpus of ancient historical documents dealing with these sorts of things, and Orthodox Synods typically refer to these alongside Holy Scripture. It’s up to them whether it’s satisfactory - and that’s anove my pay grade.
(DIR) Post #Al6r3Yva6juQGVgh96 by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:34:18.216335Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay @James Many Anglican bishops and priests received the "Dutch Touch" to retain valid apostolic succession.
(DIR) Post #Al6r4OCLUAcdHGvIrA by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:34:27.201394Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay @James > It’s up to them whether it’s satisfactory - and that’s anove my pay grade.That was sort of my point. It's above everyone's pay grade. I have some sympathy with those Churches who throw their hands up and reject it entirely.
(DIR) Post #Al6rUYzLzPaWGyKLR2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:39:11.085324Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay @James I absolutely sympathize; theoretically I too could have become an Orthodox Bishop, had it been a priority to my family to see to it, and then have had a legitimate say in it. And I can argue as an anonymous online rando with the best of them. But unless it reaches the Bishops’ ears it won’t really have any effect 😏
(DIR) Post #Al6sC4Abvu6RQtKuv2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:47:02.843699Z
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@placebo @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay @James Thanks for the reference; I hadn’t heard of that, specifically. It reminds me of the time Antiochian Met. Philip ordained the whole “Evangelical Orthodox Church”. It was undeniably pretty exciting at the time, but it looks like most of the sincere ones thought of it more as a “bridge” to established jurisdictions, than a stopping spot in itself. They don’t come up in conversation as much as they did. Met. Philip’s legacy apparently alienated as many as it welcomed.
(DIR) Post #Al6syTGNwMrb9q7P3w by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:55:47.543221Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay The most accessible for the evangelical is media (not make by converts from the evangelical world. Scott Hahn, Taylor Marshall, etc. on YouTube. They're a bunch of them. The real jewel is this vein is a podcast called "the lord of spirits" done by 2 orthodox priests--one former Dutch reformed, the other former nondenom Baptist. It is so, so good. But it builds. You have to start at the beginning.
(DIR) Post #Al6tLehLalGrHamj5s by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T01:59:58.953624Z
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@placebo @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay @James And of course no-one wants to be seen as “that guy”, so most of the objections come from old curmudgeonly and/or anonymous online randos. Met. Philip was evidently very critical of Monasticism, institutionally - which is Traditionally a necessary precondition for producing “Bishop stock”. As such, the Antiochian Archdiocese is woefully lacking in Monasteries to this day.
(DIR) Post #Al6teW1I58p5ry6eye by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T02:03:23.602608Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay Lord of Spirits produces excellent material for discussion and consideration. I say this without reservation - in spite of my own attachment to far more Traditionalist Ecclesiological positions. I’m usually pretty thrilled when someone has been listening to them ❤️
(DIR) Post #Al7P33UsMaP5E57srw by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-19T07:55:10.735259Z
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@patris @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay Ok so what is it? It's clearly in context of a rebuke.
(DIR) Post #Al7P5TK5JWtnu3ENsG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-19T07:55:37.288032Z
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@James_Dixon @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay But that's not an Agape feast though is it?
(DIR) Post #Al7g8VduqN6fBgXbSi by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T11:06:38.816630Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @somemightsay "and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." In this case, Christ himself (or his angel) tells our bewildered protagonist St. John what he is seeing. The lampstand is the church. It's a fitting symbol, too, because what is the function of a lampstand? To illuminate its little world. Who lights a lamp and puts it under a bushel? Rather put it on a lampstand and it will give light to the whole house. The lampstand is the church's position of influence in its community. When it is removed, the particular church is no more. The particular church was. It's a prophetic warning. Like many others in scripture. Jonah in Nineveh is the archetype. Repent or this will happen. Applying this to current-day Rome is, if not wrong, at least premature. For one, these warnings were very specific--the particular church's particular sins were called out. But even more that that, Rome is still being a church. Despite the bad, there is much good. I'm not Roman catholic, so I can skip making the claim that none of this applies to Rome because of our Lord's statement to St. Peter. Just from a bare functional reading, Rome is still a valid Christian church. God is upholding them, and empowering them to deliver Christ's gospel of the kingdom to the world. Do not be amazed at how corrupt a messenger God is pleased to use. Consider that Moses and st Paul were murderers. King David? Solomon rebuilding the groves? The entire second temple was rotten to the core, and God's glory never descended on it, but that's where we find our lord teaching the scribes when he was a boy. That's where Simeon waits to hold him. Jesus calls it his father's house, even as he prophesies it's destruction, which he weeps over. If you aren't prepared to weep over the ruins of the church of Rome like our lord wept over the ruins of the second temple (which was way worse than Rome is now) then you aren't looking at things in the same light as our Lord Jesus is. So repent. (aside for my Roman brothers: consider God's old testament promises to Abraham, Isreal, David, etc. About the permanence of the old covenant structures. If Rome constitutes the church in the way you believe it does (and I'm not saying one way or another) should you not expect the same kind of covenant prophetic warnings that the old covenant structures received? In other words, just because God said it will stand forever, that does not mean you should stop your ears when He says it will not continue without repentence. This kind of covenant blessing/curse duality is applied in scripture to old Isreal and to new covenant individuals--surely it applies to the new Isreal corporately as well.)
(DIR) Post #Al7ky8E1YRWXQyIjjs by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T12:00:48.143753Z
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@patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Thank you for your perspective. Many in the World Orthodox Communions - in keeping with the popular Branch Theory - regard Rome as a “Sister Church” to the Orthodox, and draw on other similar metaphors like the “two lungs”, or the “left hemisphere of the Mind of the Church” and so forth. The True Orthodox Church position is that Rome - in excommunicating the other ancient Patriarchates and their Daughter Churches in 1054 - officially entered into schism from the Catholic Church, and therefore cannot be considered as a part of the Body of Christ, whilst remaining faithful to the Apostolic Ecclesiology. However, it’s also widely understood amongst our Holy Synods that this event, in itself, is insufficient to have actually *caused* the Schism; but rather represents a material expression of an already-existing spiritual rupture far more complex than could ever be pinned onto a single historical instant. Referring to Carlton’s and my own four points necessary to constitute a living Church, we observe the following:1) Rome does not adhere to the Catholic Faith once-received; but rather has made innovations over the centuries, which clearly differ in a number of respects from the original. This is very easily proven, and even typically acknowledged by most scholars - RC and otherwise. 2) While Rome undeniably has Apostolic Succession outwardly, the fact of these innovations to the Faith renders this point void, because these successors are not in Communion-of-Faith. Historicity alone is insufficient. 3) Alongside these Doctrinal innovations, Rome has clearly innovated in terms of Worship and Liturgical Praxis - having changed a great many things including the replacement of Baptism by Triple Immersion, the Gregorian Calendar’s changing of the date of Pascha/Easter (specifically prohibited in the First Ecumenical Council), Vatican II, etc etc. The Apostles would not have recognized a modern Catholic Mass as anything that they had a hand in. 4) While there’s no denying lives are changed by participation in Roman Catholicism, it’s quite obvious by comparing the Lives of the Orthodox Saints of the second Millennium, with their contemporary Roman Catholic Saints, that they are of increasingly divergent character as time goes on. Interestingly, while this is debated and/or denied by many Roman Catholics, it’s patently obvious to most True Orthodox Christians. There is much more I can say on the topic, but this gives a broad overview of the issue at hand, from our perspective. Whenever issues such as “Reunification” come up, it is precisely such issues at these that repeatedly pop up as insurmountable obstacles. While none of this is intended to rouse anger, or lord our “superiority” over non-Orthodox Christians, we find we are in absolutely no position to pretend these issues *do not matter*. They clearly mattered to the ancient Catholics, many many thousands of whom were martyred over just such considerations; and we’d rather face the anger of the modern Christian world, than betray That which they entrusted to us, often at the cost of their Lives.
(DIR) Post #Al7lwCvNDCw1NpDwKO by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T12:11:39.696390Z
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@patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay How this relates to Lampstands; the Lampstands *do* symbolize the Church - but they very much also symbolize the ”Churchness” of any particular Church - that is, whether they remain in Communion-of-Faith, and being thus indwelt by the living Presence of the Holy Spirit. The removal of said Lampstands is, very much, symbolic of the departure of the Holy Spirit. Faith is itself a gift, sent from God the Father; and it can indeed be removed at the discretion of the Son of God.
(DIR) Post #Al7rqjGge4BdgPxpQm by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:17:53.968181Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I dig what you are saying (agreeing or not), but this is not the milk our angry questioning evangelical brother is thirsting for. The nuts and bolts of ecclesiology turn evangelicals off in a big way. The complicated nature of it seems crass and unspiritual to them, and they frequently have the familiar reaction: THIS IS A WORLDLY MESS WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST START FRESH GET THE BIBLE OUT IT'S THE ONLY THING WE CAN TRUST LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW TO START UP THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND AFTER WE DO THAT WE'LL GET BACK TO GATHERING TOGETHER BUT ONLY WITH PEOPLE WHO WE CAN CONVINCE THAT WE FINALLY GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT THIS TIMEand you can't really blame the guy for having this reaction, if you consider where he's beenIf you want to bring an evangelical into the light of apostolic Christianity, and you are orthodox, talk to him about the communion of saints, the hymns, the miracles. Describe the peace of belonging in your place within the body right alongside those who passed on a thousand years ago. The evangelical is weary of division and conflict. He's starving for the body of Christ.I say all this, and I'm the worst. I'm a convert too and converts are the worst for telling people things they don't need to hear in an effort to bring them along. I have taken up trying to deliberately not mention my denomination when talking to evangelicals in an effort to bind my analytical brain and make it submit to the charitable impulse.
(DIR) Post #Al7rxrcbz8LxcPcZyC by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:19:11.471564Z
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@patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Whom, specifically, are you referring to ?
(DIR) Post #Al7s8b3ttWJTRcVGKW by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:21:07.879030Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay You, respectfully.
(DIR) Post #Al7sHCLj90GvPFwWcC by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:22:41.137451Z
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@patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay No, I know it’s directed at me; who are you “worried” about ?
(DIR) Post #Al7tJgvQXEN0ljOUK0 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:34:20.468857Z
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@patris @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I mean, I’m *also* a convert, and I absolutely relate to this gentleman, if @Escoffier is who you think is at risk of being driven away. I’m quite confident he’s fully capable of processing solid food 😁
(DIR) Post #Al7thwzKSt8rXMmqDA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:38:43.507827Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay @patris I'm not a wilting flower m8. What was annoying me about yesterday's interlocutor was I kept asking for clarification or explanation and he refused every time.That being said I've had the debate and didn't find the pro catholic arguments terribly compelling.
(DIR) Post #Al7uCQ5KqdMCT17oKe by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:44:13.928333Z
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@Escoffier @patris @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay In all of our interactions, I’ve long been convinced you’re running the race to win the Crown.
(DIR) Post #Al7vBY0lzZewiO8gPA by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-19T13:55:16.708532Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay But then why walk in?you would go in because it's a battlefield and you intend to contest the enemy's agenda
(DIR) Post #Al7yF8urXOXxu6mRhA by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-19T14:29:32.592326Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay My understanding from studying the early church is that the "Elders" would be the presbyters, and that there were two types of elders -- the ruling elders, and generally one teaching elder, who was what was called the Bishop. Serving under the elders were helpers -- deacons. But there was no higher authority in the individual local church than this Bishop -- i.e. teaching elder. Or what we might call the pastor. Although Paul certainly tried to serve the function of an "overseer of bishops (i.e. the spiritual leaders of individual churches)" this was in very early days, and nowhere does scripture endorse the existence of archbishops, cardinals, etc.As for apostolic succession -- I am rather iffy that this is at all unbroken if, in the line, you find men such as popes who fucked married women and had their husbands murdered etc etc etc. Although all people sin, the idea that someone can engage in THAT level of evil AFTER installation as Pope and be a valid apostle is not sane. And multiple such popes existed prior to the schism with the orthodox. So I do not buy that an actual meaningful person-to-person succession actually exists. Rather, the succession is one of the spirit, not the physical. That said, the installation of a Bishop/Pastor that includes the laying on of the hands of others already in the ministry of that denomination DOES (at least in theory) assure the orthodoxy of the newly installed Bishop's doctrine. However, the very existence of hundreds of Christian denominations and borderline schism even within those -- with the founders of nearly all of these having been previously ordained by the laying on of hands of a bunch of ministers of the existing denomination -- demonstrates the ineffectiveness of this.Either way, I don't think that just because someone thinks he can trace his ordination back 200 generations, that makes it any more valid automatically than someone who cannot. The validity is determined by the fruit -- true faith and doctrine, proper administration of the sacraments, etc.That said, I think people see schism backwards in some cases.An institutional denomination can fall away from the true faith and doctrine or engage in egregious institutionalized sin. In these cases, those who break away because they still adhere to the true faith and doctrine are deemed the "schismatics" even though they are the ones doing what is religiously right.In that respect I would actually see what both the Orthodox and Martin Luther did as completely valid. (And with only minor differences I actually consider true Lutheranism and Orthodoxy to be the same faith. One would best consider true Lutheranism to be the German Orthodox church.) Schism can thus serve to preserve the true doctrine on one hand, and also a way to get heretics out of the church on the other.But beyond all this, Christ promised that his Church (consisting of the priesthood of all believers) would be preserved until the end.So I believe the actual Church -- this priesthood of all believers -- IS fighting against trannyism etc. We see these as individuals and small groups -- but they are there, and their faith is driving them. This should be seen as separate from entities with government/satanic subsidies (i.e. many institutional churches today, including Catholic, Orthodox and Lutheran in some countries). The fact that entities basically funded (directly or indirectly) by government would fail to oppose its satanic initiatives is not shocking. However, Christ's Church is not the same thing. And that church still fights.
(DIR) Post #Al7zxmKITM24pQWbg0 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T14:48:48.913742Z
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@JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay We’re arriving at similar conclusions - in spite of some specific difference - I think because you’ve landed upon the Traditional reasoning on the matter. Rome’s principle Ecclesiological deviation - which most non-Roman Christians realize quite clearly - is the invention of a novel super-Bishopric, which is an office higher than that which was Apostolically intended. As such, in their reasonings to justify this move, they’ve had to piece together “Biblical” and “Traditional” arguments - which account for many of their unique innovations.
(DIR) Post #Al81MfZ6qZk53Lt0AS by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:04:31.139297Z
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@JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Perhaps the biggest “problem“ I ever run into in these kinds of discussions, is the fact that Papal Supremacy is indeed a dogmatic Article of Faith for them; and is not believed because it’s “reasonable” or “makes any sense” - but because it’s absolutely central to their religious worldview. They cannot be “argued out of it”, as they weren’t ever “argued into it“ in the first place.
(DIR) Post #Al83Nzqp6ui4ALvrWa by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:27:10.121590Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay It is an integral part of their catechesis from childhood. That is a sort of belief that is difficult to dislodge. But furthermore, since all other belief is set up to hinge upon it, you can't dislodge it without destroying their entire Christian identity.I see it backwards from this. I see the Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian Creeds as the definition of Christian belief. Anyone who adheres to these beliefs is a Christian.I am not saying other things don't matter -- eg the true presence, Christ as True God and True Man etc -- but for the average person, the belief and understanding of what is in those creeds is sufficient for salvation. So I would see a denomination that adheres to these as Christian. I would perhaps challenge certain different doctrines, but that is because I'd believe those doctrines had potential to undermine, twist or otherwise challenge the faith as expressed in those creeds.The problem with the whole Catholic thing is that it hinges everything really on the Pope. So if the Pope tomorrow declares the creeds invalid (which basically already happened, although they still recite them), then that has to be accepted. So basically, no Pope = no Christianity for the Roman Catholic. And that's why you can't dislodge the Pope in their thinking.
(DIR) Post #Al83O27Cgz07BjbyKm by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:27:10.519430Z
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@JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I'm not roman catholic, but this:"As for apostolic succession -- I am rather iffy that this is at all unbroken if, in the line, you find men such as popes who fucked married women and had their husbands murdered etc etc etc. Although all people sin, the idea that someone can engage in THAT level of evil AFTER installation as Pope and be a valid apostle is not sane. And multiple such popes existed prior to the schism with the orthodox."Is cleanly contradicted by king David. You even (conveniently) named his specific sins that he did after being made king. And then God not only let him remain king and then put his son on the throne, but also promised that the scepter would never depart from his house. So a bishop who is ordained today is a valid bishop no matter what sin bishops in his line of ordination personally committed. This is and has been the view of the church from before Nicea. We know because it was one of the issues that had to be decided at the council (what about sacraments performed by bishops and priests who later denied the faith under persecution). So apostolic succession might be correct or in error, but it's not in error for the reason of the sins of bishops of the past.
(DIR) Post #Al83a2x1PWWRFtZrOa by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:29:20.803494Z
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@patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay There is a difference between a King and a Priest in the Old Testament.And, you'll recall, God even declared David's sins to be such that he would not permit David to build His temple. David was acceptable as a King, unacceptable as a priest.
(DIR) Post #Al84Dv1mHx96GUoZ0a by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:36:33.155560Z
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@JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay That's true--it's not a perfect analog. But what you are suggesting is still contrary to the position taken by the church at nicea. If you take your idea to its logical conclusion, we would have to get baptized again if the man who ministered that sacrament to us originally fell into sin. Plus, what pattern do we have in scripture for sorting out which sins remove a man's ordination and which don't? Or a pattern for who decides? It's a novel take and, like all novel takes, creates novel problems.
(DIR) Post #Al84ERS7jXEYpTO3W4 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:36:38.803018Z
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@patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Ah, is this what’s meant by the “Indelible Stamp of Priesthood” ? To my awareness that’s never been accepted as Apostolic, by the Orthodox. A heretic Clergyman is no Clergyman, at all; they’re not even a part of the Church. This is predicated on the Orthodox understanding of the Communion-of-Faith. They may fulfil certain roles that are of use to the Almighty God; but it’s also well understood we are to flee from a heretic Bishop as from a burning building.
(DIR) Post #Al84TKd1O7Ni0YaI9A by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:39:20.301482Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Absolutely. But it's the holy spirit who baptizes abs the holy spirit who ordains. So the heretic bishop's sacraments are still valid. After he's (rightfully) thrown out, we don't have to reordain or Re-baptize anybody.
(DIR) Post #Al84zRMBuHw68v1Spk by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:45:08.452500Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay I'm not sure that is as salient as you think. The short conversations I've had back in the day with Greek Orthodox priests seemed to have a lot of respect for Benedict's approach, which they categorized as very positive and seemed to them to desire re-unification at almost any cost. Even in cases where the Orthodox position is clearly correct, such as the filioque clause, which is obviously added to the Creed without an Ecumenical Council agreeing to it, is not really a problem. The Eastern Rite Catholic churches - so I am told - do not include the filioque in their recitation of the Creed. I guess the point being that many of the Orthodox critiques might be much less controversial than previously thought. If Francis taught us anything at all, it's that we need to rethink the whole idea of the power of the Bishop of Rome. Probably to something more along the lines of primus inter pares.
(DIR) Post #Al85GaeiaTN7uCrlnE by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:48:14.478399Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay The Catholic understanding is that as long as the heresy is private and personal, and that the correct matter, form, and intention are used, then apostolic succession and valid sacraments remain.Public heresy is a different matter altogether.
(DIR) Post #Al85yF1IOFI1XqF0fg by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:56:07.731817Z
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@Sulla_Felix @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay I’ve long held “Papal Supremacy” is actually a relatively “minor” issue - despite obviously being a huge issue. The much *much* bigger issue didn’t come into focus until a few centuries later.
(DIR) Post #Al866wYwNpT0uH7zRg by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T15:57:42.116303Z
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@placebo @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Right; there’s a comparable True Orthodox take, mainly centered around struggling with Doubts.
(DIR) Post #Al86RTPNyNDaZHRpmy by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:01:24.788034Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Catholic teaching is that there are seven sacraments, some of which leave an indelible imprint upon the soul and can only be received once, such as baptism, confirmation, and Holy Orders. So once a man is a priest, he forever remains so. He can lose his license to administer the sacraments, but his nature as a priest remains, just as a baptized murderer remains baptized.
(DIR) Post #Al873ooOqMbBxCQsHw by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:08:20.609082Z
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@placebo @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay We had a situation in a neighboring parish, wherein a young Priest lost his wife. He has many children; after a long internal struggle, he decided he could no longer perform as a Priest - such that he could remarry as a Layman, so their kids could have a shot at having a mom. I’m fairly convinced it’s this exact sort of situation the Latin’s were seeking to avoid, by insisting on celibate Priests. But it trades one set of problems for another.
(DIR) Post #Al880hMICMTZvIMTrc by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:18:58.999329Z
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@placebo @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I don’t at all dispute Holy Orders have eternal consequences; obviously Our Lord isn’t going to forget something like that. But the idea of it causing permanent irreversible changes in our nature answers a question that never really came up, in our Communion. ❤️
(DIR) Post #Al88GgnW3G5SohiiNk by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:21:52.454820Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Celibate priests are a matter of discipline and not of doctrine. A true pope could remove this discipline at any point. There are some decent arguments for a celibate clergy, but I think the problems outweigh the benefits personally.I believe the Roman church is the only one of the 23 sui iuris churches subject to the bishop of Rome who enforce this discipline.
(DIR) Post #Al88U4lmEfrqvfI2u8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:24:17.632715Z
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@placebo @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Celibate Bishops make perfect sense, imo. The only difficulty that’s tended to cause is a woeful shortage of potential candidates !
(DIR) Post #Al88ak4VaXFSlMEKwK by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:25:29.929511Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay What is the much bigger issue?
(DIR) Post #Al88phcwxWbbWcTQp6 by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:28:12.098938Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay While I certainly value tradition and will not reject the accumulated wisdom of 2000+ years of church history, it is worth noting that many popes in the early church were married (a few polygamously IIRC) and that scripture states a man can be a bishop is he is "the husband of one wife".The greatest argument for a celebrate priesthood in my opinion is that priest should not have to choose between a sick child and leaving home to administer the last rites to a parishioner.
(DIR) Post #Al88vyyLNpr73cTVg0 by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T16:26:10.565832Z
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I'm going to disagree here, because celibacy in the priesthood opened up a door for the sodomites and degenerates. I'd rather have a priest who lived Christian doctrine of strong and bountiful families, with a good Christian wife and progeny. We tried celibacy. We got faggotry.
(DIR) Post #Al88vzi4doR3LRs1xI by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:29:20.061559Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris And that is the greatest argument against a celibate clergy, and why I support the elimination of that aspect of church discipline.
(DIR) Post #Al89gD3PMOpk3Gt1TE by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:37:41.422933Z
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@placebo @KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Thank you for shouting out both practical sides of this. Both are far too often hand-waved over by different groups.
(DIR) Post #Al89n9dQTF8vTV2rJI by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:38:56.800435Z
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@Sulla_Felix @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @James_Dixon @somemightsay Why, today in fact, marks the very day upon which the salient factor hinges. For on this day, the Church observes the Holy Transfiguration of Our Lord on Mount Tabor. While often overlooked in The West, the Doctrinal significance of this Great Feast of The Church was disputed in the Fourteenth Century; with the result that no possible reconcilliation between the sundered Communions can logically be possible - without the sincere Repentance of one or the other Communions. Of course I’m referring to the Fifth Council of Constantinople, aka the six Hesychast Councils, wherein it became absolutely indisputable that these represent two distinct Faiths. While barely registering as a footnote in The West, the True Orthodox understand it’s basically the Ninth Ecumenical Council.
(DIR) Post #Al8A5ntLXGkjXdNtcO by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:42:18.938815Z
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@placebo @KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay It's above my pay grade, but I think St Paul saw married bishops as good and the norm, and celebate bishops as a good and welcome exception. I think we need both, based on my limited experience. I think both the catholics and the orthos are off-center on this. At least in modern times.
(DIR) Post #Al8A8mRlMdc1vetyoC by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:42:51.280910Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo > celibacy in the priesthood opened up a door for the sodomites and degeneratesYes, we’ve already agreed regarding Priests; I’m talking about Bishops - who’ve for very good reason been nigh-exclusively selected from amongst the Monastic ranks for some thirteen hundred years. Completely agree regarding Priests; they should either be Married, or else really devout Monks.
(DIR) Post #Al8AiNNq1gpkcb2VbE by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:49:17.232502Z
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@patris @placebo @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay The reason it’s wisdom for Bishops to be Monastics, is because it dramatically reduces the likelihood that Church property ends up in the hands of his offspring. It wasn’t an *absolute* requirement in the early days, but they almost immediately found out the hard way why they *should* do it that way. But of course it also has the more abstract meaning of undivided loyalty; which makes sense for the Church’s highest office.
(DIR) Post #Al8AwbpJ7ksLTCftrs by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:51:51.657368Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @placebo @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Paul was pretty clear that he wished more were like him (celibate) but not many were able.
(DIR) Post #Al8Ba8zfk8VXd7NHo8 by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T16:55:27.392616Z
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*butting in*Is it likely Paul was a widower.
(DIR) Post #Al8Ba9nIlcCs72avAG by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T16:59:00.151721Z
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@Xenophon @Escoffier @somemightsay @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo It’s technically possible I suppose; but I’ve never heard any argument that he had wife or children at the time of his ministry in Christ. Widowers in Orthodox lands often choose to become novitiates; at least they used to - pretty rare nowadays.
(DIR) Post #Al8D7TRgpAXOZRw6zY by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T17:08:26.782507Z
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If he were a widower, he wouldnt have had a wife them. And he may never have had children, or may have lost them. Im just saying its extremely unlikely he never had sex (got married).
(DIR) Post #Al8D7UBQ597KrHKdGq by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T17:16:13.948044Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo Right, that’s all within the realm of distinct possibility, as far as I can tell. Off the top of my head, Nazirites are the only identified male celibates I can think of, and there weren’t too many named in either Testament. St. Paul being one would almost certainly warrant mention.
(DIR) Post #Al8DAlG33URGgQ3hAW by patris@poa.st
2024-08-19T17:16:49.620876Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @placebo @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I know the argument, and I know there have been a bunch of really fantastic examples of real problems with married clergy. And on the other hand, everybody knows about the very real problems (sodomite infiltration) that have sometimes happened with celebate clergy Problems and blessings come with each. The question is not which set of problems and blessings you want, it's what did our Lord instruct the apostles to do. Celebate bishops is a novelty--an old novelty now, but it is not apostolic. St. Paul wrote that a bishop must be the husband of one wife. Today, both the orthos and the Romans say a bishop must NOT be the bishop of one wife. Simple as. Paul also praises celebacy and wishes "everyone" could be like him. Seems like he saw both as good and taught the second generationof bishops that both was the norm. A celebacy requirement came later. That's a fact no one disputes.
(DIR) Post #Al8E6HFemAyqPrIjdw by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T17:27:13.317025Z
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@patris @placebo @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Fair enough, lol - from my perspective, married Bishops falls a bit beyond to reinstitution of Deaconesses in terms of likelihood 😁Technically possible.
(DIR) Post #Al8EKPDpwE1pBtBeQS by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T17:25:14.665356Z
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We want our wisest men in this position. Make Bishopric requirements stipulate a man whose own children are grown, and to whom celibacy isn’t such a massive temptation. Requiring a family and children ensures the new Bishop has legacy to shepherd. Something to lose, if you will. No bishop should ever be under 60 years old anyway, IMO.
(DIR) Post #Al8EKPrXYbmtB1lMJM by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T17:29:46.485670Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo Why do you hate Monks so much, man ??😭😎
(DIR) Post #Al8FGi7nogAgc1ANPM by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T17:34:14.690743Z
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I don't hate monks at all. I'm rather fond of them. They make the very best beers and cheese, for one.
(DIR) Post #Al8FGisb0hbMx93kLQ by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T17:40:18.622548Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo I know, I know, kidding; I mention it though because it‘s one of the Traditional controls for keeping the overly-ambitious from pursuing the Church’s highest office; it’s *supposed* to be something of a self-sacrifice, and not a means for personal glory. Married Bishops would have therefore a tendency to jockey against the Monastic institution, in order that they can get Bishoprics for their own grandchildren. Obviously I’m sure this has all occured to you - but I don’t honestly know of a good resolution for it outside of Tradition.
(DIR) Post #Al8I35TGWEMspMOv5c by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T17:07:31.152945Z
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Paul came from a well-to-do family in a time when the bvast majority of "joos" were married young. The simple odds of him having been married are higher than not.>8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marryMost people were never unmarried. Paul also should understand sex as marriage and not a ceremony before a priest.There is no clear indication he was or was no, and the odds say he probably was (married).
(DIR) Post #Al8I36MZCcbVasH5Hs by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-19T18:11:27.823921Z
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@Xenophon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo I seem to recall reading that a position on the Sanhedrin would require him to be married?
(DIR) Post #Al8I83iUT9YSpltQa8 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-19T18:12:21.896831Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo It is possible that his wife left him after his encounter with Jesus?
(DIR) Post #Al8KCiAGE6y5LcEEDI by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T18:35:36.876004Z
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@Escoffier @Xenophon @somemightsay @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo The only for-certain argument I’m aware of against these various contingencies regarding St. Paul’s wife is the argument-from-silence; which clearly isn’t a clincher by any means. I’m unaware of it having particular Doctrinal implications - which doesn’t mean much because I’m just some interested Layman. I’m open to the possibility that Saint Somebody solidly refuted the idea in the nth century.
(DIR) Post #Al8KqcMBEsVgv0pgGm by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T18:37:13.410215Z
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Institute zero material value for a Bishopric. The robes? Those ain't yours. They belong to the Congregation. These rooms? Same. Modest pay. Basic needs. NO wealth. There is zero reason a Bishopric shouldn't be a position of quiet sacrifice and service. Then if a Bishop wants his grandson to live a life of sacrifice and service, I don't have so much heartache about it.
(DIR) Post #Al8KqdDi1rKPb1sQhk by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T18:42:49.526465Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo > They belong to the Congregation.I suspect there’s a refutation somewhere in this section; but I’m not going to press the issue specifically unless some real nice zinger presents itself. 🥂
(DIR) Post #Al8Lkj7xFlIA8LvwbQ by BattleDwarfGimli@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-19T18:44:58.017468Z
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I am only discussing theory and concept, not current doctrine or canon.
(DIR) Post #Al8Lkjh39HMftCLyIy by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T18:52:57.849889Z
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@BattleDwarfGimli @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris @placebo It’s sincerely welcome consideration; as it’s indisputable there are very, very few worthy candidates under the current rubric. Could very well be the reason it was written as it was in the first place; maybe, maybe not - above my paygrade. Still something to think about :brain3:
(DIR) Post #Al8SkvviLwUJWGFnay by Thusnelda@poa.st
2024-08-19T20:11:26.365466Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @placebo @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay But if his wife died, doesn't that mean he could remarry?
(DIR) Post #Al8T418NECX3A6H74K by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T20:14:53.360587Z
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@Thusnelda @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay I cannot speak to orthodoxy, but the Catholic practice is that a married man may become a priest, but a priest may not marry.
(DIR) Post #Al8TcrsTdQqQaaSQoS by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-19T20:21:11.245989Z
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@placebo @Thusnelda @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay 👆 Accurate.
(DIR) Post #Al8TuUmwDer6BvGwQS by placebo@poa.st
2024-08-19T20:24:22.427943Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Thusnelda @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay Funny enough, were that priest to become a Catholic, the church would receive him as a priest and not a layman despite his Orthodox diocese seeing him as a layman. Catholics see (most - as in not the monophysite Oriental Orthodox) Orthodox Holy Orders as valid.
(DIR) Post #Al9FKUW8Xr0Cj3JM2q by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T05:15:42.312583Z
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@JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I see it backwards from this. I see the Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian Creeds as the definition of Christian belief. Anyone who adheres to these beliefs is a Christian.I agree completely.
(DIR) Post #Al9FslUVwXLHDNtZ2W by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T05:21:54.022685Z
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@JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > So I believe the actual Church -- this priesthood of all believers One thing I continually come back to that the 1928 Anglican Book of Common Prayer absolutely gets right is that the Church is the "very members incorporate in the mystical body of thy Son, which is the blessed company of all faithful people".
(DIR) Post #Al9GYIhJO4bC4kgdzE by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T05:29:24.456400Z
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@Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay > But that's not an Agape feast though is it?In the case of the Methodists dinners, I'd argue it is. Though I suspect they don't even realize the tradition they're keeping.The after service coffee hours, probably not.
(DIR) Post #Al9GnTHeJKCHFeuw88 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T05:32:08.978984Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @Escoffier @somemightsay > The real jewel is this vein is a podcast called "the lord of spirits" done by 2 orthodox priestsThank you. I hope folks fine it useful. I don't know enough to offer such pointers.
(DIR) Post #Al9gI30GZHnhZkSmI4 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T10:17:47.584016Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > … is the blessed company of all faithful people".I actually agree with this - but my natural tendency would be to interpret this as pertaining specifically to the True Faith; as one is obliged to draw lines somewhere, else it must necessarily include faith in Mohammed, Vishnu, the Bodhisattva ideal or whathaveyou.
(DIR) Post #Al9h0Nwm3rPnGyyJ0K by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T10:25:48.596281Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay In my experience, it’s not an Agape Feast if it doesn’t officially open and close with the Traditional Meal Prayers, and the singing of the day’s Troparia / Kontakia.
(DIR) Post #Al9i0BRkdZVUSRvdfE by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T10:36:58.685890Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Anyone who adheres to these beliefs is a Christian.> I agree completely.In our Communion, we call the Creed the “Symbol of Faith” - and, as such, though I’d not dispute that they’re Christians - we adhere strongly to the understanding we received from, say, Saint Maximos the Confessor; who flatly refused to Commune with the Patriarch of Constantinople because of his adherence to Monothelitism. Bear in mind, too - he had his right hand and his tongue removed for it - several years *before* the Sixth Ecumenical Council had even taken place. Significantly, he wasn’t refusing that Communion on the authority of a Council anathematizing that specific heresy; but rather, because of a very specific Doctrinal difference that impinged upon his own Conscience. And both Roman and Eastern Communions realize *he’s* the Confessor.
(DIR) Post #Al9kDnRkrh4hzBY7Cy by Sulla_Felix@poa.st
2024-08-20T11:01:50.672251Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay So, a dozen boxes of Krispy Kreme after Mass doesn't count?
(DIR) Post #Al9kRo0VZscnmKU7t2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T11:04:22.727647Z
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@Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @Escoffier @somemightsay Well I suppose it *could*, if it involved the Traditional prayers and spiritual songs …
(DIR) Post #Al9to71aS2a0iahWCm by vonzeppelin@poa.st
2024-08-20T12:49:15.689911Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @James_Dixon @somemightsay > do Latins even do that, anymore ?no, please tell me more. for the most part our "feast days" are in name only
(DIR) Post #Al9wNLewEPpK9P2L7Q by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:18:02.234306Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The 1928 bcp has a lot going for it. The marriage service was starting to get cucked though. I guess it was published right as the Rollercoaster tipped over the top of the steep hill, but before it picked up any speed. The lectionary in the 28 is solid gold though. If you just read the scripture in the list for morning and evening prayer for the whole year, I guarantee that you will feel like a new man. And the coverdale psalms? Reciting them twice a day for a year will stave off the filth like an iodine pill in a fallout zone. I suspect singing them every day for very long might result in translation into heaven. I swear if I could get everybody I see arguing about the church on the internet to sing the psalms in congregation, the world would change.
(DIR) Post #Al9wVvdaLiqk3GUls0 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:19:35.383994Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I believe that the relegation of singing to professionals in the US was as big a blow to saving souls as anything else the devil pulled off in the twentieth century.
(DIR) Post #Al9wkRHjTu8MG7C1lA by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:22:12.743262Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Thinking "out of the deep have I called into thee oh Lord--Lord hear my voice" VS saying it privately VS singing it with a hundred other people.... This is what the judge dread guy means when he says that Christianity lost its memetic power.
(DIR) Post #Al9xfyjNnohUUoYya8 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:32:36.557714Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Now that I'm up on top of the soap box, let me do one more:I frequently find myself arguing on the internet the cousin that faithful and fruitful old-type Christian congregations still exist in the US. Where the kingdom of God is preached and not the enlightenment. And the teenage boys are masculine, abs the v teenage girls are feminine, and the young women are nursing babies in the service and the fathers make the children behave and take care of the church business. Where people don't get divorced and worship is reverent and joyous. And they exist in most, of not all , traditions: roman catholic, orthodox, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Anglican, at least. I'm not saying they are all equally correct about the right way to be Christian, I'm just saying they exist. And I have a hard time convincing people of this fact, because they are so rare that many have never seen one. You know one thing all the ones I've seen have in common? Robust, vibrant congregational singing. Every single one. Because they are full of professional musicians? No. Because they value corporate worship, so they work at it. Without getting paid. (audible gasp)
(DIR) Post #Al9z3bD10aKARpFahk by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:48:05.063642Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@patris @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I am part of such a congregation, and there is indeed singing. We think the enlightenment is crap, refer to Jews as antichrist and our teenage boys get taught shooting etc.
(DIR) Post #Al9zQZZxEcn03Kw1A0 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:52:14.253591Z
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@JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Yes! Step 2 for us: making marriages within and between these groups, and figuring out a way to overcome/settle/eliminate the denominational differences. We have way more in common with each other than we do with the converged threads within our own traditions.
(DIR) Post #Al9zlM9yK0uIW1gy7U by drteath@poa.st
2024-08-20T13:55:59.627382Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Sounds exactly like my church. Dutch Reformed tradition. We love our Hymnal.
(DIR) Post #AlA125NC5UgjKUPwsi by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:10:13.271173Z
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@drteath @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I've never mixed with the ditch reformed personally, but they have a reputation as singers. No instruments, right? Everyone has something particular and valuable in their musical heritage. The Anglican chanted psalms, the Scottish psalter. Presbyterians and Lutherans wrote half the hymns in English hymnals. Catholics are now singing English methodist hymns. Gregorian chant and English plainsong. ...sorry orthobros, music was invented in the west.
(DIR) Post #AlA1DqNPfb1SIH7uvw by Eleutheria2@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:12:20.824137Z
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@patris @drteath @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Are organs or piano permissible? One church around here used an acoustic guitar with an Avengers strap on it, and we never went back.
(DIR) Post #AlA1KI5rX2elzfzY6y by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:13:30.709669Z
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@patris @JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay It's easy to settle denominational differences by eliminating all the heresy of other gospels that aren't actually the gospel like priests, rites and non biblical "canon". Church is simple as:Biblical AuthorityThe Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture’s inherent authority. (
2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20-21)Autonomous Local ChurchThe local church is an independent body accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church. All human authority for governing the local church resides within the local church itself. Thus the church is autonomous, or self-governing. No religious hierarchy outside the local church may dictate a church’s beliefs or practices. Autonomy does not mean isolation. A church may fellowship with other churches around mutual interests and in an associational tie, but a church cannot be a “member” of any other body. (
Colossians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23)Priesthood of the Believer“Priest” is defined as “one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion, especially as a mediatory agent between humans and God.” Every believer today is a priest of God and may enter into His presence in prayer directly through our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ. No other mediator is needed between God and people. As priests, we can study God’s Word, pray for others, and offer spiritual worship to God. We all have equal access to God–whether we are a preacher or not. (
1 Peter 2:5, 9; Revelation 5:9-10)Only Two OrdinancesThe local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord’s Supper, or communion, commemorating His death for our sins.
(Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32)Individual Soul LibertyEvery individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm. No one should be forced to assent to any belief against his will. However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God or from accountability to God Himself.
(Romans 14:5, 12; 2 Corinthians 4:2; Titus 1:9)Restricted Church MembershipLocal church membership is restricted to individuals who give a believable testimony of personal faith in Christ and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer’s baptism. When the members of a local church are believers, a oneness in Christ exists, and the members can endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
(Acts 2:41-47; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 4:3)Two OfficesThe Bible mandates only two offices in the church: elder and deacon. The three terms—”pastor”, “elder”, and “bishop/overseer”—all refer to the same office. The two offices of elder and deacon exist within the local church, not as a hierarchy outside or over the local church. (
1 Timothy 3:1-13; Acts 20:17-38; Philippians 1:1)Separation of Church and StateGod established both the church and the civil government, and He gave each its own distinct sphere of operation. The government’s purposes are outlined in Romans 13:1-7 and the church’s purposes in Matthew 28:19-20. Neither should control the other, nor should there be an alliance between the two. Christians in a free society can properly influence government toward righteousness, which is not the same as a denomination or group of churches controlling the government.
(Matthew 22:15-22; Acts 15:17-29)
(DIR) Post #AlA237GadJTFRhNr9c by drteath@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:21:36.760974Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Ours has a single instrument (piano) accompanist. We have had many instances where a cappella was necessary, but the focus is exclusively on the corporate singing of psalms and hymns. Regulative Principle of Worship is always the goal, regardless of whether a musician is available to provide assistance.
(DIR) Post #AlA27e8qLXEuZ2v8am by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:22:25.909370Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I agree but I will also say this won't be done by clergy, which is sad but true.I happen to be both the president and an assistant pastor at a church, so I can share some inside baseball on the barriers.Most denominations only allow pastors who have attended certain schools unique to their denomination. Although there is provision for what is called colloquy where a pastor can come from another denomination, they have to set their former denomination aside. Many of these denominations explicitly prohibit pastors from participating in anything that is inter-denominational. If they do, their clergy credentials are revoked. This can be a serious problem because even though for example we pay our pastor directly, his retirement and insurance programs come from the denomination so losing those would be a serious problem.There is some limited sharing -- called "altar and pulpit fellowship" between certain denominations. But this is withheld for some really trivial reasons.So basically, full time pastors are locked down really hard. In recent times, some denominations such as the LCMS have started to even come down on people like me who get too far out of line, denying them communion etc.What I recommend, and I have played a role also in writing about half of its founding resolutions, is the Catacomb Synod which IS Lutheran but is suited for the formation of house churches which can grow.I think you'll find it refreshing:irp.cdn-website.com/ab3ec421/files/uploaded/catacomb%20synod%20convention%20resolutions%202024.pdfThis format will allow official clergy to be sidestepped. We are also working on a version of this suitable for not being specifically Lutheran.And I agree -- we have 90% in common between Lutheran, Orthodox and Catholic.
(DIR) Post #AlA2DvHTXIHVSSx1YO by drteath@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:23:33.980604Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Other traditions similar to ours vary from no instruments to full bands. It's not necessarily a matter of doctrine, more a matter of following the RPW principles.
(DIR) Post #AlA2N0jccyJwynRx5c by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:25:12.284593Z
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@BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay My brother, there are thousands (thousands) of exclusive Christian organizations currently active in the US who all claim scripture as their only authority and pattern for faith and practice. It is not only not "easy to settle denominational differences" using this tactic, it is (apparently, based on the data we have) impossible. I wish them all the best. Some of the people I love the most are "no creed but Christ" etc, and I expect to see many of them in the eschaton, passing the bottle around the heavenly fire barrel and laughing about denominations.
(DIR) Post #AlA2Po4ABaXsYbOIcq by dictatordave@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:25:42.850868Z
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@drteath @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay why would god have made instruments if he didn't want us to play them while praising him?personally i love it when there's a couple few players, but the church we were going to has gone full retard so i dunno what they're doing now, we're just reading the bible and doing our own thing now
(DIR) Post #AlA2wvZLJMLJNolgki by drteath@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:31:41.964542Z
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@dictatordave @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay In all honestly, I was heavily involved in some of those "full retard" churches for years. It wasn't until I started moving into a Reformed tradition that I understood the focus was all wrong. It was almost all about the music, because it was fun. The simplicity and elegance of traditional worship keeps the focus rightly on God and not what the band is doing on stage.
(DIR) Post #AlA2x2dV2IpLIjlbhg by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:31:43.333614Z
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@patris @JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Revelation 2 deals with these little differences really. The heretical churches that reinterpret or don't even consult the Bible at all fall into the warning in Matthew 7: 21-23, while they have done works, they were never known to Jesus.
(DIR) Post #AlA3G2JiRkwtoVZRPk by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:35:09.162834Z
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@JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay What you are describing is actually a Lutheran peculiarity. Their unique and technical definition of the word "confession" is bound up with it. So you get the famous scenario of a Lutheran boy dating a Lutheran girl: they are on a date together, but each has to say a separate silent blessing because they belong to 2 different synods who don't share communion at a level that permits corporate prayer. The reason being that praying corporately is confessing a common confession, and they don't currently have that. (this is not a made up story) Other denominations have similar barriers, but not nearly as technical. Therefore we say "all churches are ethnic churches" and the German is gonna be German, especially when he becomes more sanctified. Good people, definitely. Would marry into.
(DIR) Post #AlA4DOA2sHnyeBLgFk by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:45:52.771865Z
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@BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay catnoears.jpg
(DIR) Post #AlA4i0qtaPq7KhzhYG by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:51:24.858990Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > but my natural tendency would be to interpret this as pertaining specifically to the True FaithIsn't that covered by "the mystical body of thy Son"?> else it must necessarily include faith in MohammedI noted somewhere in the past (either her or Gab) that the Muslims could have it right and Mohammed could be coming back at the end, as one of the generals in Christ's army. 😀
(DIR) Post #AlA54KSzLD44XLS9R2 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:55:26.831256Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > who flatly refused to Commune with the Patriarch of Constantinople because of his adherence to Monothelitism. Just because you're willing to admit someone is a Christian doesn't mean you should belong to the same church. I honestly think that's why Christ has allowed the different denominations to form rather than acting to keep us all one church.
(DIR) Post #AlA5OSiONovTuWG4i8 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T14:59:05.145388Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I have wondered about why so many divisions have been allowed to persist and even bear fruit as well. How do you square this with his high priestly prayer though? "Father make them one as we are one?" in the garden, etc.? I've never had any clarity on the question.
(DIR) Post #AlA5qfEPRPASq0gKIa by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:04:10.912911Z
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@patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I believe that the relegation of singing to professionals in the US was as big a blow to saving souls as anything else the devil pulled off in the twentieth century.While I agree, allow me to quote a section from a book which just *might* also apply to me:My singing really was that bad, much to my regret—dogs howled, children ran screaming, even old, deaf Mr. Russell in church had asked me once to "Stop singing, for the love of the dear Lord, Tess."I'd indignantly told him I was offering up a joyful noise unto the Lord. He'd muttered that maybe I didn't understand the meaning of the word 'joyful.' I'd given up then, because the "Amens" coming from the people around us had been disheartening.On the bright side, I'd evidently healed his deafness. I should hire myself out to magic shows or reality TV. Also, the Lord gave me this voice, so I maintain that at least He must like my singing, but I also thought I might be on shaky theological grounds with that one, so I hadn't said it out loud.
(DIR) Post #AlA6TyrgNVbb1WnbM0 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:11:17.252249Z
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@James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay We all have a cross to bear. I will say this though: it is extremely rare for children who grow up in singing families to not be able to sing fairly well. And I have seen tone deaf people develop a sense of pitch and learn to sing after several years pursuing it in a singing church. In other words, it is probably not a deficiency in you, but in your community that causes this. This is why I used such dramatic language before. When churches stopped pushing congregational singing and basic musical literacy as the norm, it withered like an unspoken language. And this is a language that people use to worship.
(DIR) Post #AlA703J3Osjc46tX1M by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:17:04.983745Z
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@BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Only Two OrdinancesNope, nope, nope.You absolutely *have* to have standardized marriage and funeral services.It's also a very good idea to have a standardized service for welcoming newcomers and children who have grown into the church, but I'll grant that's not absolutely necessary.Given your structure above, I'll agree that ordination and confession aren't actually required.
(DIR) Post #AlA7WXpzQBlQ1TnGyG by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:22:57.369508Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > How do you square this with his high priestly prayer though? "Father make them one as we are one?" in the garden, etc.? All faithful Christians are one in Christ.But I don't know that I'm correct. It's merely a theory to cover why he hasn't taken action to rejoin the various denominations. We know he has the power to do so if he wanted, so the only reasonable conclusion I can reach is that this somehow serves his purpose.
(DIR) Post #AlA7ho4JPnxZY1rZCa by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:24:59.552073Z
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@patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > it is probably not a deficiency in you, Oh, it's definitely a deficiency in me, believe me. But I simply don't sing in the services and appreciate them in silence.
(DIR) Post #AlA9OiuIa66hwiCvDM by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:43:57.285398Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Standardized and biblical aren't really saying the same thing. A marriage ceremony is nice to have but it's not required for a holy marriage. A Christian should want to be married in their local church. Neither is a funeral ceremony. Baptism and Last Supper are a show of obedience. There should definitely be a welcoming process and learning process that graduates into membership. After salvation, new Christians should be introduced to Jesus' commandments, and the books of John and Revelation and baptized. Growing into the church should have a rebirth into accountability as a preteen and baptism before full membership.
(DIR) Post #AlA9iYyPDyEkvdaZNo by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:47:32.354424Z
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@BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > A marriage ceremony is nice to have but it's not required for a holy marriage. A Christian should want to be married in their local church. Neither is a funeral ceremony.You misunderstand the nature of the ceremonies. They're not just for the individuals involved. They're for the whole of the church to recognize and celebrate or mourn the event.
(DIR) Post #AlAA5BHhSsiM7TOm6S by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T15:51:37.616663Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold up! Stop the bus! Church membership is not in the Bible.
(DIR) Post #AlAFGdA0f8cVX1535s by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T16:49:43.356563Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay But they're not part of the new covenant, they're earthly traditions a local church can maintain but aren't required for salvation
(DIR) Post #AlAFO5nKbEaOMl1yWe by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T16:51:04.259398Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Yet there are procedures for removal of brethren from a church.
(DIR) Post #AlAI5DZ5mk7CpG3uwC by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-20T17:21:16.284309Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Also, marriage in particular includes the church community as a partner sworn to uphold and prosper that marriage.
(DIR) Post #AlAIfc8tsrEZTcAMxk by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-20T17:27:51.042455Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Indeed, I would refer to the Lutheranism in my church as "The German Orthodox Church." lol
(DIR) Post #AlAImeWNRF4osgVH5U by patris@poa.st
2024-08-20T17:29:07.383582Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Indeed. So, logically it follows that they're must be at least one right way to bring somebody in. ....what is your source for learning that way of doing that thing?
(DIR) Post #AlAT2jI6THQzqi8EZE by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T19:24:04.815163Z
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@patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The transfiguration of salvation and baptism should be enough for membership. Local churches should commemorate baptism so that if you move churches you are grandfathered into membership, or if you're kicked out of one there is opportunity with another (but if you're kicked out were you really born again a new person)
(DIR) Post #AlATSzHLeS9wxoIcPg by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T19:28:49.246833Z
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@JohnYoungE @James_Dixon @patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay It certainly should do so but it doesn't affect salvation
(DIR) Post #AlAX2LCaQuuYxHcbMO by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T20:08:49.689679Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I *think* I technically understand what’s involved in the impulse to whittle everything down to the absolute bare minimum that‘s absolutely indisputably required to keep one from ending up in the fiery Gehenna at the end of their lives - based entirely upon whatever written evidence can be gleaned within a pared-down version of a set-of-Scriptures bafflingly sundered from the wider Tradition of the Communion that produced them. I’d never dream of forcing one so wholly convinced this is the Right Thing to Do, to join said Communion. But it’s apparent to me they’ve simply placed themselves upon the Throne of Universal Jurisdiction, instead of the Pope. Personally, I could never take myself that seriously.
(DIR) Post #AlAbnVx6gHf9iw89Y0 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T21:02:10.522503Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay It's fortunately made easy for us to get saved from eternal fire, admit sin and ask Christ for forgiveness and have faith that he lived, died for our sins, and resurrected again after 3 days having overcome physical death. The rest isn't required for salvation but for obedience, because we want to please God and obtain great station in his heavenly kingdom. If we could do that 100% effectively, we wouldn't have needed him as our only saving grace. The church is to help one another in ministry, fellowship and expansion.
(DIR) Post #AlAf0AEJ3XN9ymtnFI by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T21:38:04.496972Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Our Lord is nigh-scandalously merciful, there’s no honest denying it. For a long time, I’ve hoped
(DIR) Post #AlAg3yrjLjAlqYit8q by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T21:49:58.173718Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Our Lord is nigh-*scandalously* merciful, there‘s no honest denying it. I’ve long hoped beyond hope passages referring to “working out Salvation with fear and trembling” are essentially hyperbolic; justified by what’s at stake. But I’d really really rather not presume upon His Grace more than I already do. We received a Traditional perspective regarding the appropriate response to heresies arising from within and without the Church, extending clear back to Apostolic times. While I do certainly hope the saving Grace spilled out by Our Lord overflows above and beyond the bounds of Our Communion, I don’t see any examples of Saints from the First Century onward taking a casual approach to conceptual or logical straying from The Faith-Once-Received. Otherwise, what sense do Ecumenical Councils even make? I don’t honestly think they’re just a bunch of meanie sticks-in-the-mud. Since it’s the Faith that saves - because it’s Christ’s - I rather take my cues from them. Nothing personal, I hope that’s obvious.
(DIR) Post #AlAj54T0JFuXN2Mw5I by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T22:23:46.879659Z
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@BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > But they're not part of the new covenant, they're earthly traditions None of the sacraments are necessary for salvation save baptism. And that baptism is a spiritual event, not a physical one.In fact, all the sacraments are "outward and visible signs of inward and spiritual grace."How many of the sacraments had the their on the cross undergone before his death. He recognized Christ, confessed his sin to him, and it can be argued that his belief allowed the Holy Spirit to baptize him. But none of the physical sacraments took place.But that doesn't mean they're not important. Remember that Christ's very first miracle took place at a wedding.
(DIR) Post #AlAj5vc2iNdICQ0P20 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T22:23:56.335618Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The counsels and extra documental texts are the heresy we were warned about in galatians. Faith alone, no rituals required the final sacrifice has already been made with Christ's blood.
(DIR) Post #AlAjCvOvtp1NZRD3qq by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-20T22:25:12.181992Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Some of the importance of rites for salvation are specific to catholics and their offshoots so ymmv
(DIR) Post #AlAje8hMZJ9Kd7o6IC by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T22:30:07.197655Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I don’t see any examples of Saints from the First Century onward taking a casual approach to conceptual or logical straying from The Faith-Once-Received.Both the Anglicans and the early Protestants would argue they're closer to the faith once received than the Roman Catholic Church is. I don't think they would make that argument about the Orthodox, but I'm not sure, as I've never asked.
(DIR) Post #AlAjr0Ym8eRD9ZvVhI by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-20T22:32:26.753171Z
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@BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Some of the importance of rites for salvation are specific to catholics and their offshoots so ymmvPretty much everyone but the Orthodox, Baptists, and possibly Mormons are offshoots of the Roman Catholic Church. Some have diverged farther than others.
(DIR) Post #AlAlyv58abY6O9xpWy by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T22:56:17.069571Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Traditionally, the heresy specifically mentioned in Galatians is understood to be judaizing / legalism - which is the belief that the rites of the Old Covenant are necessary for Salvation. This doesn’t relate to Church Councils - one of which is itself recorded in Acts, the First Council of Jerusalem, presided by St. James the brother of Our Lord. I’m sure you’d likely argue that’s different specifically because it’s Biblical. We’ve never had reason to make that distinction - since we’re the ones that did it in the first place.
(DIR) Post #AlAoHNCyxDdyk5Ynwm by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T23:22:01.792187Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I was raised mormon; I can attest they didn’t even hardly pretend to be Christian until the 1980s under President/Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley - which culminated in the 1995 release of “The Family: A Proclamation To The World”, by which point, after great effort, mormon doctrine had been thoroughly couched in Evangelical Christianese. In reality, it‘s another branch of the “Ascended Master” religion. Jesus is only “God” according to them by having become “Divine” after some series of accomplishments, and the current one is some battle with “Lucifer” - a “brother“ of “Christ” regarding whether or not Free Will is even possibly compatible with “salvation”. It’s actual concept of Divinity is 100% pagan.
(DIR) Post #AlArbJj1uhnjaskgXg by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-20T23:59:15.050989Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Do any mainline / Evangelical Protestants contest the Filioque ? I don’t think Baptists are unanimous on the subject, but Lutherans at least seem to be, and I don‘t recall it ever having been debated when I was a Reformed.
(DIR) Post #AlAsZgPGiL1FJVIFto by Crux_Invictus@poa.st
2024-08-21T00:10:09.575571Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Well, some "Lutherans" are starting to go a bit squiggly on it. I think @SuperLutheran is going to cover it on the @Godcast later this week. In short the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) has decided that we don't need to actually work out if the Filioque is correct or not, it can just be dropped in the interest of "healing".lutheranworld.org/news/lutheran-orthodox-common-statement-filioque
(DIR) Post #AlAtO9f4DfqyWbkYRE by SuperLutheran@poa.st
2024-08-21T00:19:16.876274Z
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@Crux_Invictus @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay @Godcast I am going to make people very, very mad this week and I'm not going to be sorry
(DIR) Post #AlAtR800r7wCEqxsdE by afor@poa.st
2024-08-21T00:19:49.141057Z
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@SuperLutheran @Crux_Invictus @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay @Godcast Word.
(DIR) Post #AlAuZi7QY20kX45ajI by KarlDahl@poa.st
2024-08-21T00:32:34.532168Z
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@Escoffier Soon
(DIR) Post #AlAumktZXIccuMpRx2 by asa@shitposter.world
2024-08-21T00:34:55.943080Z
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@Escoffier Im curious about when Christianity became so weak and why. Didn’t there used to be Christian militias fucking ravaging their enemies?
(DIR) Post #AlAxtCL4iKoTcgSNl2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T01:09:42.674629Z
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@Crux_Invictus @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay @SuperLutheran @Godcast St. Maximos the Confessor asserted it could be understood in an Orthodox way; while St. Mark of Ephesus could not himself could not bring himself to accept the terms of Ferrara/Florence. I’m much less brilliant and holy than either of these two - so I’ll defer to their judgment.
(DIR) Post #AlBSu3iXLrEfkhJzIO by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T06:57:13.480010Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay James taught direct priesthood of the believer so I'm not sure your point. Galatians warns of other gospels that are not another gospel. Catholicism and it's offshoots did judaize it's own rites
(DIR) Post #AlBTMkQe92yYKNdJtg by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T07:02:24.572487Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Baptists, aren't protestants historically, and don't regard ideas that aren't in the Bible like filioque
(DIR) Post #AlBTyYJxbsOJmQX4u8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T07:09:14.109675Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I agree that the Filioque is not a Biblical idea - but rather a logical extrapolation intended to combat Arianism in the early centuries of the Church. Well-intentioned though it may have been, and in spite of the possibility that it may be believed in a non-heretical way, it’s obviously caused more problems than it solved. I mentioned it because it’s almost certainly the majority position amongst Western Christians - almost to the point of being “the default” in our lands.
(DIR) Post #AlBUsu7hjif3cDfctE by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T07:19:25.469541Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > counsels and extra documental texts are the heresy we were warned about in galatiansMy point is to dispute this sentence. Clearly I don’t believe True Orthodoxy is heretical, and St. Paul clearly couldn’t have meant Church Councils in general are heretical. If you meant that specific Councils are heretical, then you’d have to be in a position to make that determination, authoritatively. Anybody could just up and decide for themselves that “x, y and z” are heretical; that doesn’t automatically make it correct.
(DIR) Post #AlBVFNTrGd4v2JkUJk by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T07:23:29.060254Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay From all I’ve heard, it comes across like you’ve decided any sort of Church Hierarchy, at all, is heresy - on the grounds that it’s “judaizing”. But I can’t believe that’s really you’re position - I must be missing something.
(DIR) Post #AlBZD0RGMgo8oKex5U by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:07:52.358966Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay When St. Maximos the Confessor was correct - and the Patriarch, wrong - St. Maximos didn’t decide the best thing to do is start up some parallel competing “Church“ to set things right. He simply refused to Commune with the erring Bishop, and wrote some letters about it. Had he been as Martin Luther, he’d quite certainly have pounded some Theses on the Church door, gathered up everyone that agreed with him, and set up shop as some “teaching authority” or whatnot. That did not happen. Why not ? Because he was a monk, not a Bishop.
(DIR) Post #AlBZsUCIcz4kyjRJqa by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:15:22.565530Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Counsels can be a simple as a church. Counsel that ignores or supercedes biblical text - true gospel- are heretical by definition
(DIR) Post #AlBaK0f02VhzTlzKQy by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:20:20.569365Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Are you arguing that the First Council of Jerusalem was simply some local affair - of no relevance outside those walls? Why would they have had any reason to assume that was necessary in the first place ?
(DIR) Post #AlBaR5vqpz2BrAFU9I by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:21:37.703010Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The only legitimate church hierarchy is that of elder and deacon pastoring care from biblical scripture, expanding membership by sharing gospel.
(DIR) Post #AlBaaVILuMRR7mGBf6 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:23:19.758616Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The book of acts is biblical and good for teaching.
(DIR) Post #AlBadz65YoyWQIBRXE by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:23:57.216159Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Then what was the purpose of the First Council in Jerusalem ? Why did they do it ? Why was it necessary ? Why wouldn’t all the believers everywhere just draw the same conclusions, on their own, Bible in hand ?
(DIR) Post #AlBakZTbDUCwzMJypE by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:25:08.891874Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay How does that answer my question … why would a big Council have been necessary in the first place ?
(DIR) Post #AlBarW7W5pdWbgIvk8 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:26:24.393511Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay You don't make sense. Biblical authority is the Bible. I think you're sperging on some vocabulary issue.
(DIR) Post #AlBb38BIvITfpvc7bk by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:28:30.056056Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I am asking, point blank - why was the First Council of Jerusalem held in the first place ? If the Church is just sharing the Gospel, and forming communities around it - what was the point of the Council ?
(DIR) Post #AlBbfQluFkLSUuzsFk by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:35:25.484159Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I hear you, but what is your point in making argument that a counsel exists to redirect early Christians towards gospel? That other counsels - not in the Bible - have the same authority as the Bible itself?
(DIR) Post #AlBc5Y1TupmkW3jfns by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:40:08.346774Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay My point is, that *we* are the Faith Communuin that *held* the First Council in Jerusalem; and we held it because certain problems were cropping up subsequent to the Founding of these Apostolic communities. Why would there be any problems ? If it‘s all just “sharing the Gospel and forming communities around it”, why couldn’t each of this communities deal with it on their own ? What reason did they believe St. James in Jerusalem had answers for them, that applied in any way to them ? Where did *that* come from ?
(DIR) Post #AlBcS4ePHqOu52gTI0 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:44:13.058869Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Who is the we your are referring to?
(DIR) Post #AlBcet1vnqzznvnTBw by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:46:31.526348Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of course! This is standard Orthodox Ecclesiology.
(DIR) Post #AlBctbInzsOJAMhp6u by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:49:11.448348Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay And you believe that only they can interpret scripture?
(DIR) Post #AlBczJ4WgpJGMakQ08 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:50:13.326795Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay You’re *not* claiming to be the same Community ?What possible reason would I have to take someone seriously - speaking authoritatively about what “heresy” is - from the Books *we* wrote ?
(DIR) Post #AlBdC76QVEbv0Pk9CK by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:52:31.230179Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I believe good and well we *know* what our *own* books are about.
(DIR) Post #AlBdCLpbk34OgazQZ6 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:52:34.911582Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The Bible does not belong to any one group, it is God's message to mankind
(DIR) Post #AlBdLPjKcDypNsNLo8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T08:54:12.874890Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Why on earth would I take your claims about it seriously ? We read our Gospel in our own communites, and know what it means, because we wrote those books.
(DIR) Post #AlBducyjLmOkbnMyO0 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:00:34.899381Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Unless you are claiming that you are the “real Community” that wrote the Bible, what possible reason would any of us have to give merit to your arguments ?
(DIR) Post #AlBfduL1kp8pQxxC1w by Witch_Hunter_Siegfired@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:19:57.990649Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Bead2 @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Thusnelda Reminds me of that Chinese dude who said he was Jesus' brother lmao
(DIR) Post #AlBfqV0TFPkqdNLIv2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:22:14.677573Z
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Bead2 @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @Escoffier @Thusnelda Reminds me of Joseph Smith, for some reason.
(DIR) Post #AlBfwkAnlsy1PU9WFc by Dagnar@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:23:22.391145Z
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Bead2 @DoubleD @BattleDwarfGimli @mjdigspigs @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Thusnelda There was a Japanese guy in the 1800s that didn't declare himself akin to Jesus, but everyone around him did. Buddhist monk, I believe, his teachings were very spiritual and his demeanor extremely humble. I forget who this was because I read about him over 20 years ago. Still a respected teacher today.
(DIR) Post #AlBggNjhWYpF8xEpua by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:31:36.767665Z
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@asa It's a good question. Look up the black robe regiment for a fairly recent example.
(DIR) Post #AlBh8yyudlTklYzWHA by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:36:47.391087Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Christians are the community. There are many named beliefs and churches in the Bible, where is yours named since you claim sole authority of it?
(DIR) Post #AlBiLetgiyMgC89iwC by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:50:17.045515Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay In the Russian Catacombs, my man - the Russian Catacombs. My Bishop doesn’t even live in this country. He doesn’t get to visit often - but one of his Brother Bishops has been over a few times since I joined.
(DIR) Post #AlBicVDHywN15FM7Qu by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:53:19.875145Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay What verse are russian catacombs in?
(DIR) Post #AlBip0WZOVHhfTKxaC by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:55:35.251266Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay “And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.” ~ Matthew 10:21-22 KJV
(DIR) Post #AlBizcuPXJKLbxYI64 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:57:30.494395Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Amen to that but I don't see this "true orthodoxy" there
(DIR) Post #AlBj2r2pR6tgJz1pz6 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T09:58:05.412133Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay “And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive. I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” ~ Revelation 2:8-10 KJV“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.” ~ Revelation 3:9 KJV
(DIR) Post #AlBjH79oKJjuLd5tb6 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:00:39.972541Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay “True Orthodox” was actually the name given to us by the Soviet State, in a number of correspondences, dating back to the early-mid 1920s.
(DIR) Post #AlBjHOYtcIuGKLxfYe by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:00:43.222402Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Amen and one of the most important books for study. But the seven churches aren't named "true orthodox"
(DIR) Post #AlBjJuZJaTvyApMCrw by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:01:10.540753Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I see
(DIR) Post #AlBjP07wLfnYrQyo4W by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:02:05.287674Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay In like fashion that we were ”first called Christians in Antioch” - its our enemies that choose our common name.
(DIR) Post #AlBjfstGVXAXL7AN3g by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:05:08.622717Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Officially we’re the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. In correspondences between Bishops the common shorthand is either the “Catholic Church” or the “Orthodox Church”, but “True Orthodox” has stuck in the wider parlance.
(DIR) Post #AlBk8tc6thNfyryZaC by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:10:23.277224Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Does your church get all of God's truth through scripture alone or through scripture and tradition
(DIR) Post #AlBkAo1idlylESrgsi by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:10:43.744189Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Our recent history can be read accurately up to 2002 under the name “ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia) - that was us prior to the fateful 2007 “Reunion” with the Sergianist Moscow Patriarchate. Since then, the situarion has become “complicated”.
(DIR) Post #AlBkWvRJlC50asNzcm by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:14:43.727713Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay In keeping with the Apostolic way of doing things, we received the entire Deposit of Faith when Christ taught His Disciples, and these earliest interactions were mostly recorded in a series of books we call “the New Testament” nowadays. While this document is of the highest, most central written authority, it is by no means exhaustive, for:> “This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.” ~ John 21:24-25 KJVAll truth is God’s Truth.
(DIR) Post #AlBkvwhEE1NrjMl6G0 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:19:15.075838Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Also relevant:“These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” ~ 1 Timothy 3:14-16 KJV
(DIR) Post #AlBlFzWvOmi8JMUvGi by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:22:52.606535Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The Bible is sole authority and all we need is within it. Jude 3 discusses that all was given into the new Testament and proverbs warns of adding moreProverbs 30:5-6 – Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
(DIR) Post #AlBlQyNvzp9pwgWrIm by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:24:51.644909Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay 2 Timothy 3:15-17 – And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.That which is not in the Bible is not scripture nor inspired
(DIR) Post #AlBm1Dn8C1RO9WbD2O by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:31:24.456070Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Yeah, taking *all* these into account, it’s pretty obvious Holy Scripture was never intended to be sundered from the Communion that produced it - The Church. We’re just doing the same as we ever did.
(DIR) Post #AlBmGEvUFwJC12fWoi by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:34:07.528376Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay You've taken as canon that which isn't in scripture and propped it up to equal or greater value than scripture
(DIR) Post #AlBmOXCcBnQ310dSsK by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:35:37.065715Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Says who ? Some foreigner ??lol. lmao
(DIR) Post #AlBmSvWBj4h3aTsw9A by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:36:25.115519Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Says you, this is your literal argument
(DIR) Post #AlBmUA8QrmRXD6MYJE by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:36:38.415607Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Next you’ll be telling me you don’t believe in helicopters.
(DIR) Post #AlBmpaZHmezvGx8kXQ by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:40:30.843815Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay You said the new Testament isn't your only scriptural book. If joel osteen became orthodox he'd be in your canon as well. The catholics have added so much. The catholics had to for centuries hide the word in latin so no one could call them out for their deceptions even burning people alive that would translate it.
(DIR) Post #AlBmtpD3I0Tzq9lCtc by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:41:16.612830Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > You said the new Testament isn't your only scriptural book.What? You don’t own the Old Testament ?
(DIR) Post #AlBnJprXU4gtOX6Inw by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:45:58.864986Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Being pedantic isn't the own you think it is. The Bible, both testaments, is scripture. You take other works as scripture which are not another scripture.
(DIR) Post #AlBnJrHSDD0xnCEVpw by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:45:58.679418Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I see you forgot about something 😏😂Do you have any *specific* complaints or is it just that we’re not reading The Bible correctly according to some foreigner’s standards ?
(DIR) Post #AlBnN64HgkuWWYcKiO by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:46:34.136580Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Wat
(DIR) Post #AlBnOr7EFj22jFpiwC by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:46:53.065204Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The only Scripture we have is the Old and New Testaments. I’ve never said otherwise, you’re putting words into my mouth apparently.
(DIR) Post #AlBnSnCek0LzkkFVGy by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:47:35.656654Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay We only have the OT and the NT for Scripture.
(DIR) Post #AlBnx7wOCg00l06ZZA by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T10:53:04.517931Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay We don’t even consider the Book of Enoch as Scripture - in spite of how *some* people interpret St. Jude.
(DIR) Post #AlBpZBDCacA5rQg5Sq by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T11:11:09.582709Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay We know good and well what’s Scripture and what isn’t; we picked it out ourselves. Sheesh.
(DIR) Post #AlBrKCu8DNa4frkJGK by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T11:30:52.274989Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Ok so the church's certainty is solely from scripture (OT/NT) and not from other works or traditions and the church brethren are able to interpret that scripture and study
(DIR) Post #AlBw3XT10fHtIPvxU8 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-21T12:23:52.915135Z
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@BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay As far as I can tell, it all ties back to Holy Scripture. The Faith, the Tradition, the History, the Worship, the transformed Lives, all clearly connect to the Scriptures. This shouldn’t be surprising, as Holy Scripture itself contains a comprehensive, if not exhaustive, account of the Incarnation of the God-Man Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Holy Divine Trinity. Everything one needs to know of this historical event, is contained in these pages. Orthodox Christians are free to study the Bible as they will, and it’s *strongly* encouraged and regularly practiced, forming as it does the cornerstone of the entire Liturgical life. That said, people in the Church are *not* free to promote heresy; heretics are *not* members of the Church, even if they Commune regulary and “put on a good show” - because the Communion is a Communion of Faith. Heretics have already sundered themselves, and are heaping Judgment upon Judgment upon themselves by availing themselves of Holy Mysteries, reserved for the Holy. As such, the teaching and preaching of heretical beliefs is grounds for immediate excommunication. Sincere repentance, however, is always an option while one draws breath. It is for this reason the Church promotes the reading of Holy Scripture under the guidance of The Saints - whom the Church recognizes *do mot* teach heresy; they are guardians of the True Faith, whom one should heed so as to prevent going astray. The need for this is clear; the devil twists Scripture to his own ends, and has invested *many trillions* in gold and jewels toward promoting his lies. At any given time, in this age, traps are everywhere. But our God is greater, greatest of all by far, and His Mercy endureth forever.
(DIR) Post #AlC4HppyJ0OdxS01iq by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-08-21T13:56:06.244605Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay In defense of Luther (I am, after all, Lutheran, lol), he met the biblical criteria of a Bishop. (i.e. the teaching elder). So he was qualified to teach, in a biblical sense.His objective initially was not to set up some other denomination, but rather to take the Catholic church back to what (he believed) it had been in times past, in a more pure and accurate expression of the faith.The fact that it led to a different denomination was not the intent but was, of course, inevitable. There was, after all, a great money making enterprise in the sale of bishoprics, indulgences, and in collecting funds to help ease one's errant relatives out of purgatory. Nobody was going to give that up.A smaller faith breaking off from a larger one does not automatically mean that the smaller one is heretical. If the larger one has become corrupt, the smaller could be the one that is more closely adhering to true doctrine.I have my issues with the denominations of Lutheranism and how they run, but I don't see any issues with the actual Lutheran confessions themselves.
(DIR) Post #AlCCP2zyZNIaRBd3K4 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T15:27:02.992081Z
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@JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Luther did many great things and was a good scholar. I think the intent was good. Certainly don't agree 100% with him though
(DIR) Post #AlCCYVnWrd7yMZJtuy by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-21T15:28:45.669239Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all God and salvation results in love for them
(DIR) Post #AlEHSmayO1zUoDSEPA by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-22T15:33:10.326639Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Do any mainline / Evangelical Protestants contest the Filioque ?Not that I know of.But I honestly consider it a tempest in a teapot. " I and my Father are one."
(DIR) Post #AlEHedjZ9uaYni7yLI by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-22T15:35:18.859984Z
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@BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Baptists, aren't protestants historically, and don't regard ideas that aren't in the Bible like filioqueI have a great deal of sympathy for their position. But I'm forced to conclude they throw the baby out with the bathwater.
(DIR) Post #AlEI9Tr7w2iJ8qN0a0 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-22T15:40:53.297748Z
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@BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Does your church get all of God's truth through scripture alone or through scripture and traditionAs long as tradition does not contradict scripture there's no reason not to follow it. The Bible does not contain all of Christ's teachings, as John clearly states:"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
(DIR) Post #AlEIF89JYLE3YbZTWK by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-22T15:41:54.583774Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I see you beat me to posting that verse.
(DIR) Post #AlEIORwXKSRTYM2Qqm by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-22T15:43:35.480984Z
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@BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > The Bible is sole authority and all we need is within it.No. The Holy Spirit is to also to guide us."Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
(DIR) Post #AlEIhlWkjveFnJBkzA by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-22T15:47:04.963090Z
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@BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > That which is not in the Bible is not scripture nor inspiredThat all scripture is inspired does not mean that all which is not scripture cannot be inspired. Didn't you ever learn basic logic?All black bears are bears does not mean all that is not a black bear is not a bear.
(DIR) Post #AlELmdOQi4XvsQJCz2 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:21:34.770667Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay But all traditions, even good ones, can become problematic. See: the Pharisees and the Sabbath.
(DIR) Post #AlELrLExd2TP1c7llQ by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:22:25.790101Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The bigger objection I have was Rome’s flagrant violation of the First Ecumenical Council, which specifically prohibits modifications to the Creed with anything short of an Ecumenical Council. That the rest of the Church objected so strongly, and Rome did it anyway, does not strike me as anything like a charitable Christian response. Theologically, it causes more problems than it solves; but the Uniates’ resolution strikes me as sufficient. Many far better men than I have had more problems with it, than I have.
(DIR) Post #AlEMC9q7DAglkPQem0 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:26:11.551163Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I would condense Paul'a position too "there are a host of things we can all disagree on that do not break fellowship up to the point of actual heresy. But heresy breaks fellowship."
(DIR) Post #AlENYKPIhbHIqa1R3Y by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:41:24.241210Z
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@Escoffier @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Define “problematic” - even Scripture can become problematic; for example, > I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” ~ 1 Timothy 2:11-12People lose their jobs over quotes like this, these days. It‘s obviously society that’s problematic, rather than Scripture; but the State doesn’t see it that way and that can pose some real problems. This isn’t to mention the twisting of Scripture; certain passages are more prone to this, than others. But is it not also thus with Holy Tradition? Why or why not ?
(DIR) Post #AlENki6OQkUBoL5BD6 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:43:38.511183Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay My favorite scriptural disputation of sola scriptura (there are many) is the episode when our Lord casts out a particular unclean spirit after the apostles were unable to do so, then tells them "this kind can only come out by prayer and fasting," and the gospel writer doesn't elaborate. So:1. Fasting exists for the Christian2. Fasting is powerful and effective 3. How/when/when not to fast is not addressed in the new testament at all.
(DIR) Post #AlENtbJZ2HPrMkTyjo by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:45:14.915093Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I feel confident you understand what i'm getting at with the referenced point. God gave men a day of rest in the Sabbath and the Pharisees turned it into a laborious chore. It was good when given by God but men managed to cock it up. Do you disagree with that basic concept?
(DIR) Post #AlEOcmJOziakVMwtrU by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:53:24.811713Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The disputation of sola scriptura I've seen be most effective is this: first, walk your evangelical through the fixing of the canon at the council in 397 (facts not in dispute, but get them fresh in his mind). Stipulate that everyone knew which books were in and out--that's why they knew marcion was wrong and the church needed to answer him. Point out that there Das debate. We have some notes--it's not like they cast lots. They argued about sources and authenticity and who had been reading what. Then ask your evangelical if he trusts the holy spirit guided these men with wisdom to define the canon correctly. (he will affirm) Now ask him if he trusts the holy spirit guided these men to understand and interpret what the books of the Bible teach correctly. Particularly regarding things like holy tradition, ecclesiology ("church government"), doctrine, practice, sacraments, etc. I have seen this one cause a forced reboot. Eyes blinking, mouth agape.
(DIR) Post #AlEOjF410bYDPlpm3E by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T16:54:34.911943Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay (I give them a hard time because I love them--I still think of myself as a Baptist)
(DIR) Post #AlEPe8MkaFDd9Ej2QK by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T17:04:51.802964Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I understand what your saying. People will ruin anything. I will humbly submit that it is almost always a mistake to pit obedience to tradition against obedience to God. Jesus did it that one famous time because they were following traditions contrary to the command of God. What they were doing was bad because it violated God's law, not because it was a tradition of men. In a Christian culture, every tradition of men should align and overlap with the law of God. Obviously, we've never lived in one that good. But many traditions that come to us are directly from the apostles, and we would be retarded to forsake them because of that one exchange with the pharisees. On the other hand, those were Christ's words, and they were recorded for us. So we have these arguments. I think it boils down to tribalism (which is a good impulse I believe). People trust their own people. If your people, whom you trust, say "catholics follow the tradition of men instead of God's law" then you tend to believe them. I know I did for a long time.
(DIR) Post #AlEQz3n4tDyEzda9i4 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T17:19:51.023364Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay About a year ago or so I began a conversation on Gab as I was struggling to find a non clown world church. Many others chimed in to say they were having the same problem. A point I made was I think it would be a good idea to examine every element of what we do on our services ro make sure it still comforts with Scripture and is fit for purpose.
(DIR) Post #AlEa8kX6F9dBkXnssC by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:02:26.671145Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay On the contrary, I contend that this impulse to strip down and straighten out the Christian church is unnecessary and more likely than not will result in worse error. It always does. 100% of what is wrong with the church today is novelty introduced with various efforts to "fix" something or other over the years. We, as men of one particular place and time, do not have anywhere near the skill, experience, knowledge, sanctification, etc. to improve on what has been passed down to us by our betters. Furthermore, the very fathers of church: the apostles who touched Christ's earthly body and sat under his own teaching--all of it, not just what got written down--warn and entreat us in their epistles to "hold fast," "don't forsake," etc. Over and over. So choose a denomination or tradition that suits you (I suggest choosing based on ethnicity), go find the most serious, unspoiled, striving congregation within that tradition--the one fighting hardest against modernity--and submit yourself to that rule of life energetically.
(DIR) Post #AlEbWFfClYsMulMhyC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:17:53.960674Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Are you saying there can't be 'drift' in these things? I think there very much can be.
(DIR) Post #AlEbdbpEldqdfvZ9uq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:19:13.742798Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I would note as well that we are told to examine our faith and I think that includes the corporate faith.
(DIR) Post #AlEckFLcpx0BwYRbdo by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:31:38.142768Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay God set all creation to decay as a result of sin. No student can surpass their teacher and these understandings too decay. In the end of times people will be starved for the word, the ministry will have diminished in quantity and quality.
(DIR) Post #AlEcrDIMrn5DbYF6XY by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:32:53.632862Z
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@patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay If the world be against your church it's likely to be doing something right
(DIR) Post #AlEd2nDvcs9gDhghIu by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:34:59.078027Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Sure, but we know what Christians were doing all the way back. Even pre-constantine, the "murky" years. There's tons of text from that period. We don't have to guess about anything. A cold, analytical, thorough investigation will give a surprisingly detailed picture of how the apostles instructed the church to operate, believe, and practice. The answers are plain and no more work needs to be done. But modern western protestants don't like the answer. Orthodox, trad catholic, Anglo-catholic, novus Ordo catholic, high church Lutheran, in that order. That's what the apostolic church looked like, as far as practice*, and anybody saying anything different is telling himself comforting lies. So pick the most based congregation of one of those, or go crazy with some liturgical Presbyterians--they are good people too (would marry into). If you set about to repair the Christian church and end up with anything substantially different from what the ones on that list look like, you are farther from the mark, not closer. *I'm not considering doctrine here, just what the visitor gets from his eyes and ears the first day, BUT I contend that the serious, enlightenment-denying threads of those groups have more doctrine in common with each other than they do with the worldly mainstream in their own traditionI'm also not saying that they are equally correct or anything. They obviously all make some mutually-exclusive claims. But anything is better than "forsaking the gathering together of the brethren." Christianity is corporate. Can't practice alone.
(DIR) Post #AlEd3T7JrppA9Mv0pk by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:35:06.552597Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The nearest one to me (on kjv only site) is about a 6 hour drive away. I have one I attend for fellowship but another for doctrine online.
(DIR) Post #AlEd8dpLTVBAoZygsq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:36:02.508740Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay >Orthodox, trad catholic, Anglo-catholic, novus Ordo catholic, high church Lutheran, in that order. That's what the apostolic church looked like, as far as practice*, and anybody saying anything different is telling himself comforting lies. Really? They didn't have buildings just for starters. They met in homes.
(DIR) Post #AlEdUHECB8r75yuyIK by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:39:57.141056Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay This actually brings us full circle to where this began with the question about the lampstand being removed from disobedient Churches? I think about 99% of churches today have had their lampstands removed clearly you don't agree with that number.
(DIR) Post #AlEdkkEW6clzgdv92u by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:42:55.864137Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @James_Dixon @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay There is no compatability of a man made problematic tradition with a scripture that the world is against. The world is against God, that's a given. Man is against man and so goes traditions they formulate and into decay all these things must go but God's message itself does not decay. The ministering of his word can only be decayed by increasing tradition over teaching of the word. There are only so many hours in the day.
(DIR) Post #AlEdrp2IeAqYbsa5S4 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:44:12.478584Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay They met in homes until they could build buildings. They were generally the homes of the rich. Big places. (seller of purple) actually, they first met in synagogues. But the places they celebrated the eucharist, even if in a home, were set apart for worship. We have records of this. As soon as they could build or convert a building for worship, they did. So you should too. It follows the biblical pattern. The tabernacle was God's idea. I have never understood how worshipping in a building that no one sleeps in is such a big deal for certain people. I've known a lot of them--just never got it.
(DIR) Post #AlEdyYllWZzOBe3miG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:45:25.513374Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay There are arguments that that was a mistake. That homes were the preferred option. I can think if lots of reasons it may be superior.
(DIR) Post #AlEe4eBKJZRUi5v1Oa by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:46:31.531224Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay As soon as? Really? They waited several hundred years?
(DIR) Post #AlEeF7qYsL3DbvCcGu by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:48:25.308845Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Scripture is inspired and transcendent across generations and the old and new is fulfilled and justified directly by Christ and his apostles. Anything after is not the same in measure or qualification. It has nothing to do with bears. You cannot compare God to man.
(DIR) Post #AlEeQMqfRKHTK5c2hk by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:50:27.061799Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Christ is the lamp. The church is the lampstand. Having your lampstand removed means your church is wiped out. No longer bringing the light of Christ to the world. Existing churches are still existing, until they are gone. Now they might be on the way out (Episcopals), but that just means God's not done yet. 99% of churches today might be on the way out. I'll go with you that far. Now you go with me, to one of those 1%, THIS SUNDAY.
(DIR) Post #AlEepcswx6b2Ieiyg4 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T19:55:01.008553Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Agree to disagree. There are far too many Churches that are absolutely not bringing the light of Christ, very much the opposite. So, you know, yeah. I wish what you were saying were true but you'd actually have to be crazy or not from this planet to believe that.Joel Osteen says hi.
(DIR) Post #AlEfnvXyhIT9YMfWam by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:05:54.753941Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay OK, but those arguments started when? Mid-twentieth century? There was approximately 1,700 years between the first (known) church building and somebody saying "hey wait, this is a bad idea. This isn't working. That's isn't what Peter/Paul/Mark said to do"? Really? We're taking every single country too. Churches built in Palestine, Greece, Europe, Africa, all the way to India. Christianity feel into the exact same unforseen grave error everywhere the apostles set foot? PLUS we don't even know when the first church was actually built. There may very well have been a church building constructed somewhere on the fringes of pagan Rome that was visited by a living apostle. Seriously. Britain, Ethiopia, and India would be the likely spots. The whole thing is twentieth-century nonsense. It's just not plausible. And it's not about the building. It's about submission. House church people I've met in real life, at least, want to make a new church just the way they want it. They want to figure everything out for themselves. I've never once met one who wants to worship in a house, but be under any ecclesiological authority. What about you? Does your house church ideal the local bishop visiting to celebrate the eucharist and confirm new converts (lay hands on them so they may recurve the holy ghost, per the explicit scriptural practice). Will you make a public confession when he visits so you can make a good communion with a clear conscience? Because that's exactly what the REAL pre-constantinian house church Christians were doing. We have records. Is that the house church you imagine?
(DIR) Post #AlEfwWluBHJDJuHfnc by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:07:28.038543Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Lots of people have interacted with you right here giving testimony about their personal experience in their own congratulations. Why don't you believe them?
(DIR) Post #AlEgEYGhM4dtAsHXNI by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:10:43.452562Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I note you just ignored my rebuttal to your lampstand post? Let's not drop that so quickly. because all your arguments rely on the systems not being corrupted. I believe they are. So wat do?
(DIR) Post #AlEh13GfP2K9DYOTIm by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:19:29.414188Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay One catholic who was promoting my attending a catholic church also told me he had no problem with church officials having a mistress. So i'm probably not going to believe him. I would also note I think God may have a problem with that.Another said that the various corruptions in the history of the catholic church were ok because they had good doctrine? If i'm understanding the argument a whorehouse with good doctrine is ok?Yet another explained to me that Catholic priests are taught secret incantations so you have to go to a building and also shut up.I don't mean to pick on catholics they just happened to make the lions share of bizarre statements.Yes people have made claims regarding churches they attend. I have attended many churches based on people's claims and as a rule they were not good. I find many times unfortunately people have no idea that there are problems in their church. So someone telling me their church is a good one is something I would only believe if I attended the actual church.My question remains: should a person attend a church if the lampstand has been removed?
(DIR) Post #AlEhBV5koCcoPMGuG0 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:21:22.765480Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm sorry. No, I disagree with your interpretation of st John's vision, because it contradicts the explicit word of Christ in the Bible. He said "the seven lampstands are the seven churches" So I'm going with that. They are the seven churches, not God's blessing on the seven churches. However, I agree with you about the churches being corrupt. Every church everywhere in every period is corrupt. Christ told us it would be like this. If you are looking for a church that doesn't contain corruption, you are not looking for the church Christ made for us in this life. He said so. False teachers will come, etc. So did the apostles, obviously. So I'm with you there. I belong to a very based, very serious, fighting, joyous, singing parish in which people worship the Triune God vigorously and love each other. It has some bad elements. The broader church has some bad elements. It's not free from error and sin. It's a real place, full of real people. It is the church of Christ on this earth and that's where you go to meet Him. Several people in this weird little joint have told you the same thing. You don't need to engineer a church, just go find the church.
(DIR) Post #AlEhPDGRt6EdAfoRw8 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:23:51.449595Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'll remind you when I began the conversation on Gab hundreds of people agreed that they could not find a living church. Perhaps you are willing to accept something you shouldn't? If you have genuinely found what you claim to have found i am deeply happy for you (though I am a little skeptical) but i will remind you its quite rare today if it exists at all.
(DIR) Post #AlEhdJw9sKujv836I4 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:26:24.335118Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Also fwiw there must be a point of rejection when the corruption becomes too bad to tolerate? There must be but perhaps you feel like its ok for church leadership to have mistresses then this conversation would make more sense to me. There has to be cutoff, i don't demand perfection in any way shape or form but the things i'm seeing are not small things.
(DIR) Post #AlEhr2G4Oxtf91u0Ku by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:28:53.014433Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay There are at least 4 very good churches around the city where mine is located. I suspect there are about 4 others I am not familiar with. Population of the city proper is only 150,000.They are rare, but not too rare to find. How many churches have you visited so far this year? If there were 4 in your city, is it likely that you would have met them based on your search?
(DIR) Post #AlEi5VPennXzcWHpJY by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:31:30.033233Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Again i have no ability to decide for myself if you are correct. Again you are making a claim i have no way of verifying. I have no idea in the real world what you think is a good church.
(DIR) Post #AlEipsXX9H7efV5DF2 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:39:52.933276Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm with you there. I would not attend 99% of the churches around me. Obviously I don't "feel like it's OK for leadership to have a mistress," I'm a Christian--it doesn't matter what I feel like anyway. The requirements for clergy are in black and white in st Paul's letter. I'm going with that list. So does the catholic church, by the way. They do not permit clergy to be adulterers. That doesn't mean somebody didn't get away with it sometimes, obviously. But they still defrock men all the time. The guy who said he didn't care about it means nothing. My standards for qualifications of clergy, doctrinal purity, etc. are probably higher than yours. Where do you plan to get men to serve as clergy for your ideal house church? Who will lay hands on them? Who will depose one if he starts teaching heresy? Also, for the record, my church does not permit things like that. They actually are one of the few bodies with married clergy who enforce the "husband of one wife" rule. If a clergyman wants to marry after his wife dies, he must renounce his office. Simple as that.
(DIR) Post #AlEj6GvQFhv8vo4dX6 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:42:50.510399Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I ask about finding clergy because I do not meet the criteria St Paul lays out for bishops or deacons. Were I to get into the house church game, I would have to find somebody to be the bishop (or elder, overseer, etc). And then....do we worship in my house or his?
(DIR) Post #AlEjP0ASmQnWSf2XfE by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:46:13.772089Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Dude i don't want to fight with you. I don't think its as easy as you think to find a non woke, non heretical, church these days. A lot of people are struggling to find one. As to the various criteria you state I have to assume that they may be tradition but i doubt personally that they are necessary to the existence of the church. They may be desirable but if the institutions crash i don't believe we can't have church anymore.
(DIR) Post #AlEjTZGyCd9kUnGEb2 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:47:03.354582Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I think we'd have to start from scratch and God would raise what was needed up.
(DIR) Post #AlEkABNMvU6YpiZeN6 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-22T20:54:45.349103Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The criteria may be tradition? Necessary? 1 Timothy ch. 3. The criteria are apostolic commands, inspired by the holy ghost, written in the very word of God. If you are going to build your own Christian church, you gotta crack that Bible. I'm not fighting. Just trying to build the kingdom....
(DIR) Post #AlEkmcCncgaT30xMEy by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T21:01:42.137984Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I just reread 1 Timothy and i believe a few of the things you said were commanded by Scripture (specifically some Bishop stuff) is not commanded by Scripture. The thread is getting long and I can't find the post where you made those claims.
(DIR) Post #AlEn2RhMeh0L0CvfwO by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T21:26:58.508995Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I want a non incorporated, non 501C3, premillennial, post tribulation one which is extremely hard to find. Churches shouldn't be incorporated, that would make their master their board and the state not Christ. 501C3 makes the state again master and they can control what is preached under the no propaganda clause. Donations to churches don't even require 501c3 to be exempt and deductible but merchant lawyers convinced them all otherwise. Premillennial on its own is easy to find, non Darby/Scofield heretical churches and post tribulation extremely hard.
(DIR) Post #AlEnJlGZ9jiic6eRHM by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-22T21:30:06.227248Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The house on the hill philosophy should bear, they should be easy to see as pastoral, set apart, blameless, forgiving. Set apart even compared to its brethren that should be set apart themselves from the world. If they're not they shouldn't be an elder or deacon
(DIR) Post #AlEnkPNmcv5CYsjWsq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-22T21:34:54.943083Z
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@BadOptniks @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay If you used nothing but progressivism and dispensatiomalism as your removal from consideration criteria there wouldn't be many churches left on the list.
(DIR) Post #AlEnlcmWIMQwPJsqLw by Witch_Hunter_Siegfired@poa.st
2024-08-22T21:35:08.220456Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
@BadOptniks @Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Then let us be men against time.
(DIR) Post #AlG1pEUk7yAAl48wUq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T11:47:22.099821Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay So here is an article challenging how Church has been done since the Constantinian shift. I would summarize as Constantinian and another emperor needed a religion suited to empire and yanked Christianity into a new and unfamiliar shape ...wordofhisgrace.org/wp/ekklesia-or-church/
(DIR) Post #AlG5ztiO7uyzJQrml6 by patris@poa.st
2024-08-23T12:34:06.875328Z
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@Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Most of that is just incorrect. Just saying. Starting with his Greek etymology. I'm sure he has the best intentions. Do not listen to him.
(DIR) Post #AlG6CTnJoGOAgbAjjc by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T12:36:23.606008Z
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@patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Please feel free to explain. I found the argument compelling.
(DIR) Post #AlG7BpFUenbOtGbR8i by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T12:47:28.630634Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay From my perspective, that ours is a Communion of Faith, would be in gauging the Emperor’s sincerity. Was Constantine actually a Christian ? What really motivated him to convene the First Ecumenical Council? Why did he set up shop in Byzantium of all places ? In my mind, everything must follow from that.
(DIR) Post #AlG7ho2yf2r2QgzwRM by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T12:53:15.584404Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I've spent time thinking about this and it seems to me he could have been 100% sincere and a 100% wrong. Not even saying it's true but it us possible.He needed an empite friendly entity and by gosh by golly he got one.
(DIR) Post #AlG82HYOfJ0LjcSS5w by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T12:56:57.659718Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Yes, gauging his sincerity is the first step - the essential prerequisite in whether or not he *could* be a true Christian. But then we’d have to determine whether or not he was correct. Because sincerity alone won’t stop one from being wrong.
(DIR) Post #AlG948LrwuLtjE2qiO by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:08:30.006702Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Assuming his sincerity, we should in hindsight be able to identify his errors. So where, specifically, did he err? This article seems to be putting forth the argument that considering certain places as especially holy, is an error - on the grounds that it’s a pagan way of thinking. So that would be the primary point of contention. Was the Error of Constantine the belief in holy places ?
(DIR) Post #AlGA2lrOBe65dWhbE0 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:19:27.609112Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay State enforcement takes away God's will for mankind to separate and walk with him of their own free will. It creates false testimony and belief without faith. Placedom then supersedes a personal relationship and creates boundaries in the mind of where God is most powerful and accessible.
(DIR) Post #AlGAAZyYFzPX5tm9aK by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:20:52.193943Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay There’s no real disputing pagans believe certain places to be especially holy; is that fact sufficient to prove that it’s in fact an error ? On what grounds can we establish that one way or the other ? And, assuming it is an error, can that account for the entire “Constantinian Shift” ?
(DIR) Post #AlGAU3Vag818BtW59k by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:24:23.388048Z
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@BadOptniks @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay There’s no disputing State enforcement invites opportunities for insincerity to creep in - ie worldly motives rather than Heavenly. Is that in itself sufficient to prove that it’s an error ? What are the alternatives ? Assuming it’s an error, what would constitute a “Christian kingdom” ? How is that supposed to look? Should there be such a thing ? Why or why not ?
(DIR) Post #AlGAqE4s40e3LCaeuG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:28:23.677461Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm simply noting that pre Constantine the Church looked and acted one way and it was quite different after. I would begin there.
(DIR) Post #AlGAw4EdZRYEYJwZO4 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:29:27.091300Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I would argue that the Church that Jesus and his disciples delivered was a humble one which met in homes.
(DIR) Post #AlGBCwByj8wIWykDSq by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:32:30.081086Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Indeed, Emperor St Constantine left a huge mark on the very meaning of Christendom. I don’t think there’s much point in disputing that. What remains to establish whether such changes were *willed* by God, or simply *permitted*.
(DIR) Post #AlGBHVEwMWSiO7J4s4 by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:33:19.747117Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Gods will was for the church and state to be separate, and especially for his Lordship over the church and believers. In a state church the state is lord and it's will anathema. It destroys rather than cleaves and cultivate. To advocate for it would seem purely political behavior and not that of a faithful follower of Christ. The Christian kingdom is a spiritual one.
(DIR) Post #AlGBYO9pwnUNLTyHmC by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:36:22.770596Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay If it were willed by God, that would mean he changed his mind since this wasn't Jesus' action
(DIR) Post #AlGBqdPXyT4lrj1Imm by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:39:40.528901Z
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@BadOptniks @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay So would you argue then that *all* State authority represents deviation from the Will of God ? Or does He have a preference in this regard ? How would you know ?
(DIR) Post #AlGBx6daDxZSFNffpw by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:40:50.683180Z
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@BadOptniks @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Same question I just asked; does God have a preference over what form a State should take ?
(DIR) Post #AlGCXPH4PU4ETPRylM by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:47:24.298088Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I would ask how has it worked out? Has the Church been improved by getting into bed with the government in any way shape or form?I'd argue its not good. For example the 501c3 charity model of Church seems to have bred a generation of cuck pastors and congregations.
(DIR) Post #AlGCma1giVtAACUTvk by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:50:08.823659Z
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@Escoffier @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Well the obvious question that raises, is whether or not the American way of State represented something God-pleasing at its inception; if so, where did it go wrong?If not, what *should* it have been ?
(DIR) Post #AlGD3f4pBydYkb6RLU by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:53:14.096464Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay How something starts and how somethings ends can be very different things. I would simply ask again -- how has it worked out?Not saying Christians can't impact the larger society, even in politics, just saying the political Church, not preaching politics but rather in bed with politicians seems a short road to subversion.
(DIR) Post #AlGDWpaZBiJFkbrJpo by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:58:30.379992Z
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@Escoffier @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I would simply ask again -- how has it worked out?Well my feelings on the subject are no secret 🤮But in my perspective nothing I’ve lived under actually represents the Church colluding with the State in any significant capacity, beyond certain small key events most people don’t know about. My Ecclesiology is very specific.
(DIR) Post #AlGDdV4drOlS9U6fYG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T13:59:42.655783Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay And let me put my biases on the table: the times in corporate worship where i most felt the presence, the blessing, the teaching of the Holy Spirit was inevitably in a small group setting. Some where in fact held in Church basements or halls but interestingly enough the Church was almost always an impediment to our being able to meet regularly. Closing the building because the weather was good or bad or other trivial reasons which is how we would typically end up in somebodies living room and to me that just seemed to deepen the experience.Two things I noticed about that. after the group had met for a while we would find ourselves saying "Oh i never noticed that in Scripture before" and I think it was because we were being taught by the Spirit.The second is more interesting imho. I also noticed that when people joined the small group they were either propelled toward the cross or away but they did not keep 'auditing the course' forever. It seemed like it put a wholesome pressure upon them to make a decision. A phenomenon i never saw in the Sunday morning service.
(DIR) Post #AlGDfVnG9i8Ixlw3JQ by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:00:04.668195Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay All state religion yes. Some government authority have been pleasing to God others received his judgement.
(DIR) Post #AlGDmxxroZ88MSS2zI by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:01:25.345551Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Certainly the middle ages Catholic Church was very much a political entity and they still send ambassadors to nations. Is that not the very definition of being a political entity?
(DIR) Post #AlGDoe0yxTPv4Ei0HY by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T13:58:02.981781Z
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>So would you argue then that *all* State authority represents deviation from the Will of God ? >Or does He have a preference in this regard ? >How would you know ?yes.no.I know because he told us in 1 Samuel 8.
(DIR) Post #AlGDoelm9UqbPMbNDc by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:01:43.421293Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris That’s its own whole ball of wax;> “In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.” ~ Judges 21:25 KJV
(DIR) Post #AlGDq3mUe47DGmbfuq by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:01:58.910295Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Can you briefly explain said ecclesiology?
(DIR) Post #AlGDxbOw2rLfZFBTAe by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T13:59:29.394802Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
You have far more patience than I, good sir. a week old hellthread would have resulted in me blocking someone and muting it 😆
(DIR) Post #AlGE2hX0gFZM1nONd2 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:04:15.830810Z
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@s2208 @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris I always feel when speaking with Catholics that they have to work so hard to not see what the Church has done historically (c'mon the corruption wasn't that bad) or is today (sure the Pope is a commie and the lavender mafia is a real thing but the Church is fine?)The level of cogdis is staggering.
(DIR) Post #AlGE6pWqt7YNzRHrvM by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:05:00.835123Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Xenophon @Escoffier @somemightsay @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Hellthreads keep moving this is a seeking God's favor neighborhood
(DIR) Post #AlGE8Xy996N06msABU by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:05:19.299375Z
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@Escoffier @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I’m a Traditional Orthodox Christian; I point to St. Maximos the Confessor to answer this question;"To which church do you belong? To that of Byzantium, of Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, or Jerusalem? For all these churches, together with the provinces in subjection to them, are in unity. Therefore, if you also belong to the Catholic Church, enter into communion with us at once, lest fashioning for yourself some new and strange pathway, you fall into that which you do not even expect!" To this the righteous man wisely replied, "Christ the Lord called that Church the Catholic Church which maintains the true and saving confession of the Faith. It was for this confession that He called Peter blessed, and He declared that He would found His Church upon this confession. However, I wish to know the contents of your confession, on the basis of which all churches, as you say, have entered into communion. If it is not opposed to the truth, then neither will I be separated from it." [After hearing their confession of Faith, and after further discussion, he was asked] "But what will you do," inquired the envoys, "when the Romans are united to the Byzantines? Yesterday, indeed, two delegates arrived from Rome and tomorrow, the Lord's day, they will communicate the Holy Mysteries with the Patriarch. " The Saint replied, "Even if the whole universe holds communion with the Patriarch, I will not communicate with him. For I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul: the Holy Spirit declares that even the angels would be anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching."
(DIR) Post #AlGEICJ4XcQhorGJpA by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:06:37.986324Z
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I'm actually 5 days up in this thread and that's about when i muted it.
(DIR) Post #AlGENRuByOEPe683Iu by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:06:04.987077Z
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I appreciate your thoughtfulness, but the point is moot. The correct government is one ruled over by Yahweh, and that will only come after the end of this age. Nothing is supposed to be correct in this life, so debating about how we can make it so is an exercise in futility. The best you can do is hope that the people who are in charge of you have your best interests and those of God in mind.
(DIR) Post #AlGENSkIqduoFiVfWq by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:08:00.878773Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris See, I don’t dispute that at all; it’s very much in keeping with Ecclesiastes. That said, it’s a subject very near and dear to my heart; if I were a king, what ought I do ?
(DIR) Post #AlGEWbQjveATnEiYFs by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:09:40.150235Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris If we look at Israel the king and the high priest were always separate positions. and that was not an accident. And even then the high priest more often than not went wrong and climbed into bed with the king and God was forced to use prophets to deliver messages to the king.
(DIR) Post #AlGEdEGgRZKhz4Ap8q by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:10:52.207094Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay That's a great question which this book covers, I just received it and looking forward to the read. I think things started well but by the Civil War were already turned evil and corrupted.
(DIR) Post #AlGEe4s2ru7H803Ob2 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:11:01.274803Z
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@Escoffier @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris I don’t at all dispute Church and State ought to be entirely separate. That said, I believe a king should be Saved.
(DIR) Post #AlGEfS3KAEdzJaz6Tg by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:11:16.136155Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Personally i am happy to hold to the Nicene Creed. Beyond that i am nondenominational
(DIR) Post #AlGEhR5MjMMStXsyEi by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:11:37.665286Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris I agree with that as well.
(DIR) Post #AlGEmHgd6SQLBzcxyC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:12:30.297734Z
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@BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay When you finish that check this one out. its very good...amazon.com/Light-Glory-1492-1793-Gods-America/dp/0800732715
(DIR) Post #AlGEnCGMkmHef2mIRk by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:12:40.167137Z
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@Escoffier @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris I believe it’s precisely where the Church in Rome took its first real fall.
(DIR) Post #AlGEwS7LB07oRGyC4O by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:14:20.521469Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris Whether intended or not I kinda think Constantine ultimately seduced the Church into a new form. A form that was remarkably different from what it had been. I actually think he was most likely genuine but terrible things can happen with the very best of intentions.
(DIR) Post #AlGFF0arjX3IZrd0ka by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:17:41.705716Z
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@Escoffier @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris That’s a reasonable conclusion, given your presuppositions. I have a slightly different view. The time for Christ to literally “take over the world” had arrived. In my opinion, the perfected form of this was attained under Emperor St. Justinian I. As perfect as it can hope to be, in a fallen world anyway.
(DIR) Post #AlGFPsAFPiEtcUMGps by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:19:39.527946Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris As in the Millenium as in the book of Revelation?
(DIR) Post #AlGFaIJ74NAlb3TTLE by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:19:21.621614Z
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> if I were a king, what ought I do ?This is like saying "If I were a chef, which ingredients should I use?"Even if I told you the ingredients, that doesn't mean you could combine them correctly, or in the right proportions, and transform it into a palatable meal. What I think should be a much larger takeaway from the gospels than anyone seems to understand is that even the most devout Israelites basically didn't understand anything Jesus said to them until he spelled it out in crayon, and even then they mostly just nodded their heads and pretended to get it. Before you can know what to do, you have to understand the why. I don't claim to have that answer. I understand it a lot more than I think most of them did, but I don't credit that to me being special as much as to me having farm more information than literally anyone else in history. It's easy to be more knowledgeable than a KJV scribe when I have the internet at my fingertips. Even grug brains know more than they did.But lets take this exampleMatt 12>10 There He saw a man who had a paralyzed hand. And in order to accuse Him they asked Him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”>11 But He said to them, “What man among you, if he had a sheep[d] that fell into a pit on the Sabbath, wouldn’t take hold of it and lift it out? 12 A man is worth far more than a sheep, so it is lawful to do what is good on the Sabbath.”Now compare this to a catholic (or maybe orthodox i don't really know shit about you guys) who wants to damn someone to hell for saying Mary wasn't a perpetual virgin (she wasn't, because Matthew says she wasn't), or who tells you you need to confess to a priest, or go pray your rosary, etc. The law was never meant to be black and White. it was meant that you understand the spirit of what was being asked of you and you did the right thing. And yet a jew will throw his shoe at a light switch so he doesn't "make fire."
(DIR) Post #AlGFaJ28MzBXqgXQW0 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:21:32.426458Z
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@Xenophon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris On that topic i'm always amazed that post Pentecost while in Cornelius' house Peter still had zero idea that Gentiles were welcome in the kingdom of God?
(DIR) Post #AlGFgNnHaEJQLnUOCu by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:22:38.582292Z
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@Escoffier @Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris I think it’s a Type of the real Millennium. Revelation to me describes a fundamental Spiritual reality, which manifests symbolically in real events throughout history. For example, Joseph Stalin isn’t *the* AntiChrist - but he’s a symbol of the AntiChrist. In the last of the last days, it will unfold exactly literally as described.
(DIR) Post #AlGFyhK9i20M8QbAWW by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:23:47.379744Z
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>Gentiles were welcome in the kingdom of God?This is an entirely different discussion, because Peter would have no idea what a gentile is.
(DIR) Post #AlGFyiBKWKXUnLTdPE by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:25:57.029339Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Huh?Acts 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
(DIR) Post #AlGG9bcdFWS3dURTAu by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:24:26.279365Z
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> In the last of the last days, it will unfold exactly literally as described.What will, because most of it has already happened.
(DIR) Post #AlGG9cH2pGmHepLkAK by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:27:55.375768Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris Almost all of it has “already happened” - which is my whole point. All the events of history in these Last Days are patterned after it, albeit imperfectly and distortedly. But one day, presaging The Lord’s Bodily Return in Glory, the whole thing will dramatically unfold in perfect undeniable completion. That’s where I’m at with it.
(DIR) Post #AlGGfDtkzOkPKBWoz2 by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:30:49.262896Z
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the idea of a "gentile" being a person who is "not jewish" is from the 1400s. The Greek word ethnos never meant that, hence my comment. Peter would have no idea that 2000 years later people would be talking about him as a "jew" verse the "non-jew" gentiles. He'd be even more shocked that you grouped niggers in with those "gentiles."
(DIR) Post #AlGGfEhjzYjJpCujtQ by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:33:38.152431Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Literally no idea what you are an about but that is 1000% wrong. The jews very much saw themselves as a particular people and saw everybody else as outsiders. Dude seriously wut?The Faith of a Canaanite Woman21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
(DIR) Post #AlGHa87DA9mltYxNlQ by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:41:15.082875Z
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whether or not "the jews" saw themselves as different or not isn't the point. The words goyim and ethnos are not grammatically used to describe people who are explicitly not "jewish". In both the Greek and Hebrew, Jacob is described as a goy/ethnos. They simply mean the word "nation." Nations can be distinct, but the word doesn't mean "non jewish nation."As for the word "jewish", this also wouldn't really make sense to Peter. the Greek word Ioudaios describes a person who is a Judean irrespective of their lineage from Judah. As a simple example, Paul clearly states in Romans 11 he is from the tribe of Benjamin, that is not a Judahite. If the word "jew" or Ioudaios described a person who descended from David, or from Judah, then Paul would not be a "jew" so clearly the connotation of the word is something other than patrilineal descent from Judah. it goes even further because we know that Hyrcanus converted many non-Israelites who then became "jews." in the context of the previous word, this would be like saying that a "gentile" could become a "jew", which would contradict the understanding of the word "gentile" as being some sort of racial description of a person who is not descended from Jacob.
(DIR) Post #AlGHa91vlH9ijTUgAi by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:43:54.969306Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris It's a bit pedantic brother. Peter knew full well something new was happening at Cornelius house. In fact he had to go back to Jefusalem to defend it.
(DIR) Post #AlGHa9iTD7BQrPOeTg by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:43:27.622802Z
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I can go even further and use the example of the woman in the well in John 4 who states>9 “How is it that You, a jew, ask for a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” she asked Him. For jews do not associate with[d] Samaritans.She clearly stipulates that she is NOT a jew (so in the jew/non-jew paradigm, she would be a "gentile") and then she states >12 You aren’t greater than our father Jacob, are You? He gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and livestock.”Clearly identifying herself as an Israelite descended from Jacob, to which Jesus does not correct her (he does correct her other errors, implying that this statement isn't an error and this Samaritan woman is an Israelite).
(DIR) Post #AlGHfeyYPrfJG2XoOG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:44:55.343524Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Actually she was worse than a gentile hence the salience of the good samaritan?
(DIR) Post #AlGHntzGUIrS8Do5wW by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:46:24.708648Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Sorry I also disagree with your last paragraph. Whether or not Jesus explicitly said anything the Samaritans were most certainly NOT considered Israelites by anyone including Jesus
(DIR) Post #AlGHusQqfTc1Ks2Dui by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:45:05.058114Z
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except it isn't, because this is the foundation of the lie that todays "jews" tell. They conflate the word which described a sort of citizenship and a belief in a monotheistic God Yahweh as also being the biological inheritance of the covenants from said God, when nothing could be further from the truth.
(DIR) Post #AlGHutRwss5QUZYcGe by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:47:40.260998Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris If you prefer Israelite that's fine and Jesus used that somewhat interchangeably but the idea that there was no racial, ethnic distinctions actually borders on.loco
(DIR) Post #AlGHzEERYg7Q6aJ840 by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:46:07.683006Z
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the woman in John 4 was not worse than a gentile. The canaanite woman though is a dog, as all canaanites are dogs. They are the product of parent/child incest (Ham slept with his mother).
(DIR) Post #AlGHzF7kF4M2s6BIGG by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:48:27.454247Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris But Samaritans were the exact same thing. They were mongrels.
(DIR) Post #AlGI0cdaIxKS5SjQBs by AngryWraith@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:48:42.590470Z
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@Xenophon @Escoffier @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Also Matthew 15:26-27Might help... I think.
(DIR) Post #AlGIDxdrWPwKzoDowK by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:50:01.859248Z
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no they weren't. Most of the Samaritans were Israelites, who lived in the ancient land of Israel. Where do you think they came from?>25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah[i] is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will explain everything to us.”The Samaritan woman who claims to come from Jacob, and who know about Messiah, and whose fathers prayed on that mountain, but who also doesn't consider herself a jew
(DIR) Post #AlGIDyahzd0lwJkofA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:51:07.027877Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris Dude that's just wrong. Again why was it so shocking for a Samaritan to help a Jew?
(DIR) Post #AlGIKPvlG3vkT9flNA by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:47:00.637517Z
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John 4:12 disagrees with this claim, as does a lot of secular history.
(DIR) Post #AlGIKQtJgdZLRrXKCW by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:52:17.149116Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris You'll have to provide some context here...No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
(DIR) Post #AlGIUxDkLDJmc26qZ6 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T14:54:11.526916Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris This is the common take. Literally never heard yours in 40+ years of bible study...During the ministry of Jesus there was contact with a group of people known as the Samaritans. The Samaritans were half-Jew, half-Gentile. The race came about after the Assyrian captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 B.C. Certain people from the nation of Israel stayed behind. These people intermarried with the Assyrians producing the Samaritans.They Had No Dealings With The Jews
(DIR) Post #AlGJO2ycdqwoOLJ0Fc by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T15:04:09.011171Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Xenophon @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris The millennial period will follow the tribulation of which nothing as terrible as it has ever occurred on earth and in the midst of it great judgements unlike any before it will be poured out. What cleaved remain will not face the grievous sores/plagues which will further enrage the wicked. At the end of the tribulation the wicked will be burnt eternal and the faithful brought into the kingdom. (As also told in the parable of the tares and wheat). Then follows the true millennial. That nothing this bad has ever been is pretty terrifying notion. Congregations should be prepared to literally lose their heads and become martyrd or forfeit all. But it's never taught.
(DIR) Post #AlGJbuunPasrRW85gW by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T14:58:14.760277Z
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you says Jesus didn't consider the the Samaritans to be Israelites. I'm saying John 4 disputes this claim. He clearly did, or he wouldn't have spoken to them this way.And Abraham and Jacob have both seen God.
(DIR) Post #AlGJbvpA21yEGKV6XY by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T15:06:39.071733Z
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@Xenophon @Escoffier @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris I’m very appreciative of the continued civility of this exchange. My own position is somewhere between the both of yours. It seems pretty apparent Our Lord had warmer regard for St. Photini at Jacob’s Well, than the Canaanite woman. I see no reason to dispute Samaritas were both Israelites, and that they were “mongrelized” to an extent by the Assyrians.
(DIR) Post #AlGKD1DQwuPbhMXS3U by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T15:13:21.621895Z
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@Xenophon @Escoffier @somemightsay @BadOptniks @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris I think it’s “Judeans” that had no dealings with Samaritans. This would be an outgrowth of the schism under King Rehoboam, and also the Assyrian Captivity. Our Lord clearly recognized something closer to them, than the wider world, because He was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
(DIR) Post #AlGKckKgLIvmrjCGIK by Xenophon@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T15:14:07.939001Z
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But this presupposes that Assyrians were themselves "mongrels." Just because a group has a specific view of another group doesn't mean that opinion is right or shared by Yahweh. Jesus hates Canaanites for a specific reason. it's the same reason he hates moabites and ammorites, and all of the other "ites" who are downstream from them biologically. They are the product of parent/child incest. Assyrians were not.
(DIR) Post #AlGKclB9CEtlURkA4W by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T15:18:00.239209Z
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@Xenophon @somemightsay @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris Yes, I can concede “mongrelized” is too strong a word for it. There was clearly intermarriage that came with the conquest, but it was insufficient to warrant Our Lord outright dismissing them as total foreigners - and so He didn’t. And many of them became Christians.
(DIR) Post #AlGtWj9JKIWDqyk97Q by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T21:49:05.941928Z
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@Escoffier @BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > But all traditions, even good ones, can become problematic. See: the Pharisees and the Sabbath.This is why tradition is not given equal weight with Scripture.
(DIR) Post #AlGu6WyQ4YtMW4inM8 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T21:55:34.055714Z
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@patris @Escoffier @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Orthodox, trad catholic, Anglo-catholic, novus Ordo catholic, high church Lutheran, in that order. That's what the apostolic church looked like, as far as practice*, and anybody saying anything different is telling himself comforting lies. On this I will agree. Which is why I attend traditional (or continuing as it's sometimes called) Anglican churches when I can. That's not really an option where I live now, so I settle for virtual attendance.
(DIR) Post #AlGuIxL3sCWXlHEkYC by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T21:57:48.871022Z
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@BadOptniks @Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > The nearest one to me (on kjv only site) is about a 6 hour drive away.I think I could find one about four hours away. But I'm not even remotely up to that drive anymore.
(DIR) Post #AlGuRB0SwN5AT5WVFo by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T21:59:18.019805Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Really? They didn't have buildings just for starters. They met in homes.They built or repurposed dedicated buildings as soon as it was safe for them to do so.The home church is supposed to be a temporary solution, not a permanent one.
(DIR) Post #AlGuf5lPEKocGI7A5w by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:01:48.907813Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I think about 99% of churches today have had their lampstands removed clearly you don't agree with that number.99% of those of the major denominations, yes.There are plenty of good Baptist churches, continuing Anglican churches, and Orthodox Churches out there. There are even a small handful of faithful Episcopal churches trying to ride out the storm (they won't succeed, imo).
(DIR) Post #AlGv2g44QiRLVY5iAC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:06:04.669795Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay This is the popular idea but i did a pretty deep dive a while ago and did not find that to be the case. The original Church was pretty resistant to official Church buildings.
(DIR) Post #AlGv3fRaDuUds8YqmW by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:06:15.403604Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay The history of Church of Our Savior at Oatlands might be instructive:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Our_Saviour,_Oatlands
(DIR) Post #AlGvFVRHFONWJk3yD2 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:08:23.743110Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Show me an example of expository preaching in the BIble or in early Church. I've said this before but i heard a Church historian say that the Church in Corinth would read Paul's letters and then debate them. That was their "preaching."Also let us consider all the Holy Spirit gift manifestation verses? I grew up Lutheran i sure don't remember seeing that?
(DIR) Post #AlGvL9NqA5apeR9ARc by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:09:24.992756Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm not sure why you've posted this? What is the relevance?
(DIR) Post #AlGvMWjOqCLOLut5Lk by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:09:39.860921Z
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@BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Anything after is not the same in measure or qualification. It has nothing to do with bears. You cannot compare God to man.The Church decided what was Scripture and what was not. It can decide what is equal to it and what is not. One of the thing it chose to be of at least almost equal weight is the Nicene Creed.Of course we'd have to reunite the Church for that to be possible, so I don't see it happening soon.
(DIR) Post #AlGvUmGixNcyrFPPjk by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:11:09.368761Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > What is the relevance?It's an example of a group of faithful people who could not safely meet in a dedicated building, and what they did as soon as it was possible to do so.
(DIR) Post #AlGvwvT8LPP1V3dSqW by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:16:14.585611Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > My question remains: should a person attend a church if the lampstand has been removed?If you do not believe Christ's presence can be found in the church to bless the sacraments, no.If there are enough faithful people there that Christ will be present among them, then the sacraments are still effective. Given his own statements, that's not a very high bar to reach.
(DIR) Post #AlGw23TpzAupnKPW5o by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:17:10.211480Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I mean, ok. This isn't the early church so apples and oranges. Not saying it never happened i'm saying persecution is the big, and frankly, pretty much only argument and i'm saying that really isn't what i found in my deep dive on the subject in the pre-Constantinian Church.
(DIR) Post #AlGw9KiIJNSLGldvk0 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:18:29.161298Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'm not sure that's exactly right. My understanding is they ratified what was already in use in the Churches. This may be pedantic i'm not sure.
(DIR) Post #AlGwAeoV478vtlB2nY by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:18:43.459422Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I have attended many churches based on people's claims and as a rule they were not good. I find many times unfortunately people have no idea that there are problems in their church. So someone telling me their church is a good one is something I would only believe if I attended the actual church.Here: youtube.com/@oursaviouroatlands9816/streamsTake a listen when you have time and see what you think. You can skip the sermons or not as you see fit, as they won't be aimed at you. But the service is what you should care about.
(DIR) Post #AlGwHx7FPqi4gnQOm0 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:20:02.586404Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay And i'll repeat something i said way above in this thread. Paul is pretty clear that there is wide latitude for things we can disagree upon (days, times, etc) but the hard no for fellowship is heresy. Just selecting for progressivism and dispensationalism knocks out the vast majority of churches.
(DIR) Post #AlGwLRGbluXb4NSvLs by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:20:40.442561Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > If i'm understanding the argument a whorehouse with good doctrine is ok?A whorehouse where believing Christians met because they had no other choice would be fine, yes. It's the believing Christians that make a church. It's the lack of belief that destroys a church.
(DIR) Post #AlGwM7UYmQem1oJevg by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:20:47.810097Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I'll check it out. Thanks
(DIR) Post #AlGwVZxYJ82SvQO5Tc by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:22:30.392784Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay But in this analogy the Church *is* the whorehouse but so long as the doctrine is good while priests debauch and indulgences are sold all is well, right?
(DIR) Post #AlGwqUmOlGlswQ8zey by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:26:17.166073Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @Escoffier @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Same question I just asked; does God have a preference over what form a State should take ?I would argue that as long as they don't persecute his faithful, no.
(DIR) Post #AlGxFr6ctF0TQNhLRA by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:30:52.307080Z
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@James_Dixon @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Scripture has no equal, everything else is vain chanting in varying degrees to man but vain all the same to God
(DIR) Post #AlGxsUwtCesa01ZOuO by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:37:51.229370Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Show me an example of expository preaching in the BIble or in early Church. I've said this before but i heard a Church historian say that the Church in Corinth would read Paul's letters and then debate them. That was their "preaching."Weren't all of Paul's letters essentially exposition?
(DIR) Post #AlGxtb1W6Sz984G3Yu by BadOptniks@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:38:03.233488Z
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@James_Dixon @Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay This is the one I virtual attend and it's pretty good, though a couple minor things I disagree on regarding the jews. It would be a long flight but I have considered flying out for one, they run full service about 5 hours on Sundays of teaching and fellowship, also rare these days. independencebaptist.com/sermon-topics/
(DIR) Post #AlGxw0LWvOWkFHldwW by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:38:29.165512Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > This isn't the early church so apples and oranges.Do you really think Christ's faithful have changed that much?
(DIR) Post #AlGy15ptwOzMihOqW0 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:39:24.438506Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay well yes but then why do we need people to..."exposit" them? the Corinthians debated Pauls/well exposited letters in the manner of the noble Bereans.
(DIR) Post #AlGy1dPr5kMArlTWdc by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:39:30.311873Z
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@Escoffier @BadOptniks @KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I'm not sure that's exactly right. My understanding is they ratified what was already in use in the Churches. This may be pedantic i'm not sure.You say potato... 😀
(DIR) Post #AlGy6GlOjz7S3glHYu by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:40:20.539034Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > Just selecting for progressivism and dispensationalism knocks out the vast majority of churches.Yes, it does. And is therefore an excellent filter to use.
(DIR) Post #AlGyIEhUEksF8QddTs by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:42:30.260496Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > But in this analogy the Church *is* the whorehouse but so long as the doctrine is good while priests debauch and indulgences are sold all is well, right?No. As long as the congregation is faithful all is well. Bad leadership comes and goes. But when the congregations tries to change out the bad leadership and fails? That's when churches die.
(DIR) Post #AlGyP84dH06WbrkeLA by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:43:44.935428Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay in this way I believe the home was Gods intended location for his church. thats what changed and in my humble to the harm of the body. that argument was not in play here.
(DIR) Post #AlGyS2SGcVxk3IC4Aa by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:44:16.638688Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > well yes but then why do we need people to..."exposit" them? the Corinthians debated Pauls/well exposited letters in the manner of the noble Bereans.Paul's writings were hardly the simplest in the world to understand. John had him beat hands down in that regard.
(DIR) Post #AlGymiWrtnNwKoCqKO by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:48:00.813145Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > in this way I believe the home was Gods intended location for his church. thats what changed and in my humble to the harm of the body. that argument was not in play here.And you will note I've never argued you shouldn't do so.My only questions have been about the sacraments and how you'll manage them.But if you home church is successful it will rapidly outgrow any home you can meet in. What then?
(DIR) Post #AlGyu4ML8JuW4CmsE4 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:49:20.474945Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I think they did it with all the apostles letters they just happened to be reading a Pauline letter when the witness attended. it wasn'tbecausepauls letter was complicated, rather it was what hey did in place of the modern sermon. their version makes a lot more sense to me
(DIR) Post #AlGzAQTUg08NI1vu9g by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:52:17.932357Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > it wasn'tbecausepauls letter was complicated, rather it was what hey did in place of the modern sermon. their version makes a lot more sense to meI don't think anyone will raise a significant objection to the idea that discussion of Scripture should be the primary focus of learning in a church.
(DIR) Post #AlGzBrWPbMLnSqyzYm by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:52:33.394407Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay how did the early church that met in the home handle them? the church began in homes so all Church functions must be able to be accomplished in the homeas to growth the classic models is cell churches. one of the reasonsibam such a proponentof home church is precisely because it purposelykeeps groups small
(DIR) Post #AlGzKWZ8subv4pOFs0 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:54:07.427249Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > one of the reasonsibam such a proponentof home church is precisely because it purposelykeeps groups smallI think up to 100 is still small enough, and you're going to have trouble fitting that many into anyone's home.
(DIR) Post #AlGzKYFMdPyiI49UJs by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:54:07.730261Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay a lot of churches do exactly that sadly. oh they'll say theynsupport while undermining at every opportunity.
(DIR) Post #AlGzOQDCRyqoWqz9Ga by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:54:49.714389Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I think 30 is a lot. after that it becomes impersonal
(DIR) Post #AlGzQE7ONwknbH85lQ by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:55:09.248774Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > a lot of churches do exactly that sadly.Ack. Apologies. I meant anyone in the context of the current conversation.
(DIR) Post #AlGzdEfddv3h4tLp2m by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:57:30.224808Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay ah agreed
(DIR) Post #AlGzh5Y7Uu3Pwmfh0S by James_Dixon@poa.st
2024-08-23T22:58:12.053878Z
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@Escoffier @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay > I think 30 is a lot. after that it becomes impersonalThat's a reasonable point of disagreement. 30 is still a lot for most homes. Ironically, it's almost exactly the current size of the St. Matthias Anglican Church in Dothan, AL.
(DIR) Post #AlH0DjqXD3PSC0qyi8 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T23:04:06.116487Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay ive been involved with home church and it usually works out to about 15-20 per location.
(DIR) Post #AlH0HasaUS3rXaeUam by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T23:04:47.886495Z
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@James_Dixon @patris @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay to me a real sense of community is paramount.
(DIR) Post #AlH33WyAWwVlDrFTGq by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T23:35:52.317395Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Escoffier @James_Dixon @patris @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I can attest that St. John Chrysostom argued that each Christian home is a “little Church”. And I see a society losing sight of this understanding has fallen, hard. But I also see error in a society that fails to construct houses of corporate worship independently of and in awareness of the home Church, has also fallen. The construction of temples set apart speecifically for this purpose comes across to me as the completion and perfection of the parallel pagan impulse - not as a fall in itself. It introduces opportunities for temptations that don’t exist in a temple-less society, but that’s true of pretty much anything material. For example, automobiles are a big one, these days; televisions, computers, internet, real estate etc etc. One could construct “Biblical” bases for demanding any/all of these be abandoned. Is that the right thing to do, though ? Traditional Christian thought has, since the Incarnation, understood material things to be, generally, good; in spite of unique opportunities for temptation, that wouldn’t be possible in their absence. Wisdom lie in discerning what uses for them are God-pleasing, and which uses are not.
(DIR) Post #AlH3Ol8z1d6dGUQgpk by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T23:39:42.315640Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay one of the reasons im skeptical of the temple system is small house churches automatically negate a lot of problems. no star preachers for example. keeping the scale modest stops allot of problems before they can even begin
(DIR) Post #AlH4DYtILEEQ21Jdi4 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-23T23:48:53.375608Z
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@Escoffier @James_Dixon @patris @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Well it’s perfectly reasonable to argue that specific instances of temple application have been in error - without automatically condemning the practice outright. On the same token, the same argument can be applied to many online “ministries”; some might regard the perils and pitfalls of information-overload and disinformation so egregious, that a “real Christian” ought never log in at all in the first place. Equally applicable to television and radio. In my understanding, the Traditional perspective regards the errors are the errors themselves - not the media in which it‘s delivered. There can indeed exist God-pleasing uses for all of them, they’re not iredeemably evil in themselves.
(DIR) Post #AlH4aIEcQzUZ2B8448 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-08-23T23:52:59.910476Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @James_Dixon @patris @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay all things are permissable Paul wrote but not all things are beneficial. I have to wonder what are the benefits of the larger gathering?
(DIR) Post #AlH7lElPymhFJiNfMW by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2024-08-24T00:28:35.458115Z
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@Escoffier @James_Dixon @patris @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay That’s a good question. Why do societies form large assemblies in the first place ? And how does this apply to The Church ? I suppose this depends entirely upon your vision of what the Church assembly is supposed to accomplish. What’s a Church Service, and what’s it for ? What can that accomplish, that can’t equally be done in intimate settings at ones own home ? I think one‘s conception of Liturgy is the answer to that. I know there are roughly two camps - “Low” Church and “High” Church, both of which have differing opinions on its significance.
(DIR) Post #AlI57tIJrXSegeqAkK by weknowwhygary@nicecrew.digital
2024-08-23T23:39:21.132052Z
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These are all of the people I associate with, and almost every single family is homeschooled, including music. Even when we get a new guy, who starts coming around because of one of the young ladies, he learns to read music, because we're singing hymns a capella from the hymn book every time we meet.I frequently think to myself when we're at a big gathering with a hundred people, "if the guys online only knew they could be here."
(DIR) Post #AlI57ts7iQ6KThalYO by patris@poa.st
2024-08-24T11:33:46.270279Z
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@weknowwhygary @somemightsay @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix I say the exact same thing to myself every week.
(DIR) Post #Am9vjrXYKHdZFEGlMm by somemightsay@nicecrew.digital
2024-09-19T06:09:25.151046Z
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>So i'll ask again where are the Christians? Why aren't they standing in the gap?Well, as far as the present is concerned, for the most part, they're midwits that have been subverted by Darby / Scofield Dispensationalism, so they're Christians Zionists that revere and worship jews, who are the synagogue of satan. They also think they are going to be raptured and that doing anything about the evil in the world, all of which, stems from jews, is not their problem (this belief and sentiment is really prevalent among the remaining boomers) and in order for Jesus to come back, all of the jews have to flee to fake israel and fake israel has to become (((greater fake israel))), at which time, the world will finally hold the jews accountable for their crimes against all men and attack and kill most of them and then the last few will turn to Christ and Jesus will come back and defend them and then reign over the earth. This is what they believe.Never mind that they ignore most of the New Testament, which when it isn't talking about salvation, is naming the jew. They also, basically, willfully misinterpret Genesis 12:3 as the excuse for their reverence and worship of jews. As for the Christians in Hitler's day, much of the subversion of the European churches, to Christian Zionism, was at work. However, I've known German and Austrian National Socialists from Hitler's time and I can tell you they did not believe that the jews were "chosen", but rather that the "kingdom had been take from them" and (((they))) are a synagogue of satan.
(DIR) Post #Am9vjsJlR2CZekpGVs by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-09-19T11:02:59.264628Z
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@somemightsay But my question is also why didn't German Christians stand up during Weimar?
(DIR) Post #AmBzqwLvcUzOKXNlrM by somemightsay@nicecrew.digital
2024-09-20T06:38:27.832822Z
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A good question. I don't have the answer. All I can say is that once I started noticing and became red pilled on jews, National Socialism and talking to other National Socialists (Christian and non-Christian), is what actually motivated me to also be what would be considered "being a better Christian," i.e. rejecting degeneracy and not being a degenerate (drugs, sleeping around with women). It has also been NatSocs and other people red pilled on jews, that have encouraged me to name the jew, even IRL. I mention the latter because both Christ and Paul, who was himself, racially jewish, named the jew. So in that sense, naming the jew is also being "a better Christian."Being raised on a Dispensationalist / Zionist platform, purporting to be "Christian," it always felt increasingly false as I got older, because of this preoccupation it has with reverence for and worship of jews and so the motivation to obey Christ's commandments (even though those aren't a part of Dispensationalism / Zionism), i.e. making a conscious effort to reject degeneracy and to not behave in a degenerate matter, wasn't there. I would go to church as a teenager and feel like I was surrounded by a bunch of hypocrites. I used to think that viewing them as hypocrites, had to do with their own behavior as they went around scolding and purity spiraling about every little nit picking thing (such as liking non-Christian music, especially with regard to punk an new wave) and to a degree, it did, but now, I think the real underlying turn off was the Dispensationalist / Zionist false doctrine. Like something in my soul was rejecting that, even though I didn't know it, at the time.It was also Christian National Socialists and Christian Identity people that pointed out the scriptural basis for Darby / Scofield Dispensationalism aka Christian Zionism being a false doctrine. I can't remember who it was, but it was a Christian NatSoc and / or a Christian Identity account on Gab that pointed out Galatians 3:16 to me one night, during a discussion, where I said I felt at odds with seeing jews as some sort of "chosen people" or race that deserves reverence and worship, among Christians. From there it was talking to Christian NatSocs on Gab that motivated me to read the New Testament in order, from start to finish and to go back and review passages like Genesis 12:3 and what it actually says and is, which is a promise to Abraham in the singular and his seed who is Christ, who is the promise fulfilled and the "blessing" spoken of in "in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed;" "Not seeds as in many," who are jews, as stated in Galatians 3:16. So, I don't disagree with your original post about seeing Hitler's point about Christianity. I see his point too and I don't know why German Christians didn't stand up during Weimar, but many were able to, with or in conjunction with National Socialism. Maybe there was some sort of underlying current or underlying form of Dispensationalism / Zionism in the Christian churches, during that time also. I mean, that started in the late 1880s, that we know of and was popular in the early 1900s, so it's very possible. I do suddenly remember reading on Gab, that there was this sort of thing, going on among the churches, in Germany and Europe, during Hitler's time. As for Romans 13, it does not mean we cannot defend our families, homes and nations. Specifically, with regard to jews, who have usurped authority and stolen governance of our nations, jews are not authority; neither are they a governing authority to be recognized. They may have appointed themselves as a governing authority, like the Wicked Vinedressers they are (Mark 12:1-12), but they were not appointed by God. Jews are a synagogue of satan (Revelation 2:9, 3:9) and in opposition to Romans 13:3, are a terror to good works and are originators, facilitators and proliferators of evil. If we do good, we do not receive praise from jews, but condemnation. How do we know this? Because "you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16).Jews constantly condemn those who oppose degeneracy and the fruits of jews are degeneracy in all forms: communism, usury, homosexuality, transgenderism, pedophilia, rape, murder and mass murder. That said, jews are not God's ministers to us for good, as stated that a governing authority would be and should be, in Romans 13:4, for they contradict God at every turn, reject His Son and are contrary to all men (1 Thessalonians 2:14-15). Btw, once upon a time, in a different Gab life, we were frens that followed each other and got along, circa 2016-2018. I can't say my profile name from that time, since I made the mistake of self doxxing under that account, but it's why I followed you on here.
(DIR) Post #AmBzqwqllpevsBoOvo by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-09-20T10:58:30.713426Z
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@somemightsay >It has also been NatSocs and other people red pilled on jews, that have encouraged me to name the jew, even IRL. I mention the latter because both Christ and Paul, who was himself, racially jewish, named the jew. So in that sense, naming the jew is also being "a better Christian."As you so ably noted the Bible really is quite anti-Semetic as the jews claim and for once with some accuracy.I think your soul was rebelling against the gay chucked modern Church which is more than happy to leave Christ behind so as to never offend even though we are told Jesus and his cross are meant to be deeply offensive and divisive.
(DIR) Post #AmCA5ICw9wzjhxewDY by drteath@poa.st
2024-09-20T12:53:10.224994Z
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@somemightsay @Escoffier Christian Zionism is the most destructive heresy that has ever been inflicted on the Church. This is coming from one who was neck deep in it for 20 years.
(DIR) Post #AmCE5e4rFRkpLuIuP2 by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-09-20T13:38:03.329418Z
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@drteath @somemightsay Absolutely. It turns Christianity on its head.
(DIR) Post #AmCFnM3NimqU9G1H1c by D1kTater@nicecrew.digital
2024-09-20T13:50:38.674847Z
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Matthew 10:35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
(DIR) Post #AmCFnMdtX23JyV6QwC by Escoffier@poa.st
2024-09-20T13:57:09.444234Z
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@D1kTater @somemightsay I'm honestly astounded when people act like there's a version of Christianity that will be acceptable to the larger society.
(DIR) Post #AmCHgQ0qnpOiJCejk8 by JohnYoungE@poa.st
2024-09-20T14:18:18.898960Z
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@Escoffier @D1kTater @somemightsay It would seem counterintuitive, simply because Jesus was clear that it wouldn't be acceptable.That said, social mores filter from the elites to the masses. For example, even though the words "racist" and "racism" do not exist in my 1957 unabridged English dictionary, it is now extremely fashionable for people to define themselves as not being racist.So elites can absolutely manufacture mass compliance (at least on the surface) with an idea. In past ages, elites endorsed Christianity and as such, its values were filtered to the masses. And even though probably very few people were actually Christian, most people behaved as though they were, which was a net social benefit.Luther was pretty clear about this as well.In the space of maybe 20 years we went from trannies being an odd aberration seen only in rare drag shows to a thing that few people will openly object to being done to kids. So if elites can push that pretty successfully, they could also make Christian ethics broadly accepted. And it would take about 20 years.Would most people actually BE Christian? No -- just like most people today aren't trannies. But they'd openly support its behavioral norms.
(DIR) Post #ArBt6jgvHPe5tuwoHA by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2025-02-16T23:03:25.405151Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Nice; blast from the past 😁
(DIR) Post #ArBtKd30mHuDLku6k4 by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2025-02-16T23:05:55.993939Z
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@Escoffier @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay I remember being rather impressed that - in spite of coming from more-or-less opposite views on the subject, we landed on almost identical conclusions.
(DIR) Post #ArBuGOHLqU8yLE9clE by Escoffier@poa.st
2025-02-16T23:16:21.054941Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay Cheers!
(DIR) Post #ArBuRonPb0TDlgbE1o by Escoffier@poa.st
2025-02-16T23:18:23.991434Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @patris @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @somemightsay One of the things that made me the saddest about the debate I tried to have were partisan blinders. I certainly am not demanding people agree with me but read the thing or fuck off but don't ignore whatever the point being made is and launch into a lecture. I hope I didn't do that and I tried hard not to.
(DIR) Post #B0uDdTqNLnyvbBUs3E by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T09:30:05.727597Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris What people are calling orthodox is actually replacement theology. The true Christian knows:* The Bible was written for the descendants of Jacob, ad not written for all humanoid bipeds. * The church described by Jesus is not the state-sanctioned instution of men commonly called 'the church' today. Are you teaching God's Word? Better have a look around. https://christogenea.org[edit] just realized how old the original post was, sorry for not reading the followup conversation yet.
(DIR) Post #B0uDdV8qWcLncl98To by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T13:09:39.902166Z
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@clort @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris > The Bible was written for the descendants of Jacob, ad not written for all humanoid bipeds. Matthew 28:19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:You can argue the definition of nations if you want, but there's no doubt it includes those other than the descendants of Jacob.> The church described by Jesus is not the state-sanctioned instution of men commonly called 'the church' today. The "Church" described by Christ is "the blessed company of all faithful people". It and any given "church" may have very little in common.
(DIR) Post #B0uDyvcXGxAppPFb84 by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T13:10:15.603085Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris You are welcome to learn why that is wrong at https://christogenea.org
(DIR) Post #B0uDyxKAwBfx72fxmy by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T13:13:32.233150Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > You are welcome to learn why that is wrong at https://christogenea.orgAnd we're welcome to ignore it, since what I posted is correct. Christogenea is a useful site, but they don't get everything right. None of us do.
(DIR) Post #B0uJn82ZrvHwb9BjBA by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T14:06:24.790743Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris What you posted can be mis-interpreted if you selectively quote scripture. Are the nations all bipeds of the earth or the nations of the descendants of Jacob Israel?If you decontextualize you can misinterpret. If you look at the shape the whole forms, you also include Matthew 15:24 were Yahshua Christ said “I come but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.” The logically integrated view of Matthew is that the nations of the covenants are the tribes of israel.
(DIR) Post #B0uJn9TYX6Sl36omrw by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:18:37.333587Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > What you posted can be mis-interpretedAnything can be misinterpreted. Often willfully so.> Are the nations all bipeds of the earthObviously not, since there are bipeds other than humans. Ostriches for example.> or the nations of the descendants of Jacob Israel?Neither orientals nor blacks are the descendants of Jacob. You can argue Europeans are if you want, but most people will just laugh at you, since they existed before he did.> you also include Matthew 15:24 were Yahshua I don't speak Hebrew.> Christ said “I come but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.” And he was. It was his disciples he told to teach all nations. But feel free to disregard his direct command if you want.> The logically integrated view of Matthew is that the nations of the covenants are the tribes of israel.This is an example of what I mean by willful misinterpretation.
(DIR) Post #B0uLzIORP4rk5cLOIi by patris@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:33:13.413568Z
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@clort @James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix Are we doing this again? You can read about the genesis of "the nations" in the tower of Babel account. Notable is that Isreal is not among them. God creates Isreal later BY BAPTISM AS THEY PASSED THROUGH THE RED SEA, and for a specific purpose, which He summarizes for us in the words of Simeon as he holds the infant messiah. And after Christ is sent to the lost sheep of the house of Isreal, he sends his apostles to preach the gospel to everyone else (the wild olive branches) AND BAPTIZE THEM INTO THE CHURCH, WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST, before wiping away the residue of apostate Isreal in AD70 (dead branches cut off and burned). The second person of the trinity is the vine, not Jacob's natural descendants (branches). The church is Israel is Christ. There was no replacement, only faithfulness and unfaithfulness on the part of men. Scripture, taken in its entirety, only and always supports the catholic narrative. We can quibble about the schism or who has valid apostolic succession and who doesn't. Heck, we can even quibble about what races are out are not included in Christ's great commission (and in John's vision of heaven), but the basic facts are not in dispute. Our Lord himself said he could raise up sons of Abraham from stones. Consider the first chapter of John's gospel. The almighty God's covenant/kingdom/sonship is not transmitted by human sexual reproduction. This whole idea is the same great blindness of the Pharisees, which our Lord railed against over and over until the nation he was sent to murdered him.
(DIR) Post #B0uLzJEYHKY8hEj0We by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T14:35:53.456622Z
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@patris @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix Don't front Jimmy, you bluescreen on the first page of https://christogenea.org.The apostles did not preach the gospel to the squat monsters, the chinamen, the jungle bunnies, or the taco goblins.
(DIR) Post #B0uLzK5N6wnhL3RBr6 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:43:13.755945Z
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@clort @patris @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix > Don't front Jimmy, you bluescreen on the first page of https://christogenea.org.I've read a good chunk of what's on Christogenea. As I said, they don't get everything right.> The apostles did not preach the gospel to the squat monsters, the chinamen, the jungle bunnies, or the taco goblins.They didn't have time in their lifetimes to do so or they would have.
(DIR) Post #B0uMFHx6oIQpM7BZQG by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T14:31:04.482291Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > since there are bipeds other than humans. Ostriches for example.Ostriches are no more heirs of the covenants than negros, jews or arabs. There's no contradiction.> Neither orientals nor blacks are the descendants of Jacob. And hence not saved.> It was his disciples he told to teach all nations. All the nations of Jacob Israel.>This is an example of what I mean by willful misinterpretation.God does not contradict himself. Your interpretation and falsely-translated KJV forces you into into the unenviable position that our Lord only sometimes tells the truth.The fact that apostolic Christianity was only transmitted by the apostles to the Europeans -- *because* only they are the lost tribes of the house of Israel -- is not without reason -- is not by chance.
(DIR) Post #B0uMFIjJv2zpldk4ZM by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:46:08.366541Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > All the nations of Jacob Israel.The nations predate Jacob. And if Christ had meant that he would have said that.
(DIR) Post #B0uMYS8BBtAyQTVBc8 by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:49:36.831720Z
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@patris @clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix > Are we doing this again? Some people refuse to be corrected in their heresy.
(DIR) Post #B0uMm1acfQdSAEHHCy by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T14:46:24.288764Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > They didn't have time in their lifetimes to do so or they would have.Wow basing your theology on what you imagine the Apostles would have done is .. par for the course of a defender of replacement theology.They were aware of Africans. Cursed Egypt was mixed by that tme. Just a boatride down the Med...
(DIR) Post #B0uMm2FODrFGCfLpke by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:52:03.341234Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > They were aware of Africans.Aware doesn't mean having the time, ability, or desire to travel to.There's a reason Paul was called by Christ to spread the gospel to the gentiles.Quit spreading lies.
(DIR) Post #B0uMsDS3ThwqgrDrAO by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T14:51:18.874037Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris atthew 15:24 > The nations predate Jacob. And if Christ had meant that he would have said that.Yes the old testamet speaks of other nations, but the nations of the promises are the nations of Isaac, Abraham and of the house of Israel. There's more than one.And Yahshua Christ said “I come but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.” A house is a genetic tribe. Not a spiritual seed. Spiritual seed is replacement theology - a made-up doctrine inverse to the word of our God, Yaweh.
(DIR) Post #B0uMsFCsx50C8O8lnc by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T14:53:10.262287Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > Yahshua ... Yaweh
(DIR) Post #B0uNvVqpcp1AZvwnmy by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T15:02:04.078397Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris >Aware doesn't mean having the time, ability, or desire to travel to.Time: It's the med. They traveled. Study the period. Trip time measured in weeks. ✓Ability: Not locked in an iron lung ✓Desire: ABSOLUTELY NONE WHATSOEVER BECAUSE NOT OF THE COVENANT:)
(DIR) Post #B0uNvWp60lDvaq8viq by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T15:04:58.435895Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > Time: It's the med. They traveled. Study the period. Trip time measured in weeksI have. I repeat.
(DIR) Post #B0uP2A1HICDMqnZEx6 by patris@poa.st
2025-12-04T15:08:50.136059Z
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@James_Dixon @clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix St Thomas was sent to India. Arguably worse than the Africa assignment.... Also, let's all take a moment to consider the Ethiopian eunich. And the fact that "Africa" was basically entirely Christianized way before Europe. Subsaharan Africa is only in the earliest stages of Christianization even today. There was not much going on there during the apostles' day. Probably pretty low population. Northern and Eastern Africa contained many peoples neither abrahamite nor euro. In other words, we have a mountain of evidence that the apostles' interpretation of the great commission was somewhat different from our guy's, even before taking up an argument about what they would have done had they had more time.
(DIR) Post #B0uP2B4rMMfq8CFcAq by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T15:17:23.160861Z
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@patris @clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix > In other words, we have a mountain of evidence that the apostles' interpretation of the great commission was somewhat different from our guy's, even before taking up an argument about what they would have done had they had more time. But that's a completely different argument than the one he's making.
(DIR) Post #B0uQlz76GzywIihmdc by patris@poa.st
2025-12-04T15:30:20.687121Z
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@James_Dixon @clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix I thought his main point was that the gospel was not intended for anyone outside "the chosen race" which he takes to be white people, with a Christian-identity-style equality between "white" and "isrealite." Mea culpe if I didn't get it right.
(DIR) Post #B0uQm02soACdBvjvhg by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T15:36:52.297321Z
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@patris @clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix > I thought his main point was that the gospel was not intended for anyone outside "the chosen race" which he takes to be white people, with a Christian-identity-style equality between "white" and "isrealite." I believe that is correct, yes. But in his case I think he also makes the argument that Whites are the direct descendants of Jacob. Since we know Whites already existed at the time of Jacob that would be difficult.
(DIR) Post #B0uktIsTBgmwhyd4U4 by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T17:12:07.383593Z
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@James_Dixon @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris If I might offer a point of clarification: all Israelites are white, but not all whites are Israelites.[EDIT: There being so much misinformation on this, I can hardly imagine Him being too angry at anyone not having been exposed to the truth of His word.]
(DIR) Post #B0uktK10xPDYEldPRQ by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-04T19:22:12.543563Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix @patris > all Israelites are white, but not all whites are Israelites.Now this was true at the time of Christ.
(DIR) Post #B0vNyI1BhrpPhf4k1w by StarProphet@noauthority.social
2025-12-05T02:40:10Z
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@James_Dixon @somemightsay @Escoffier @Sulla_Felix 2010 was the year when young men noticed the American churches hated them. And so their moral authority became illegitimate to young men.2020 was the year when any expert claiming moral authority became illegitimate to young men.
(DIR) Post #B0vO9qRW3aK5eetsTQ by KingOfWhiteAmerica@poa.st
2025-12-05T02:42:17.240754Z
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@clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris Oh hey I’m pretty familiar with Christogenea; if I wasn’t already convinced Traditional Orthodoxy is what God has in Mind, I’d definitely lean into that take. Dual-Seedline is a heck of a lot more Biblically consistent than most of modern Protestantism, and I appreciate the degree of scholarship that I see going into it.
(DIR) Post #B0vOJ6QzyAyBrH4ZMG by clort@freebeerextremist.com
2025-12-04T15:14:45.868908Z
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@patris @BadOptniks @Escoffier @James_Dixon @JohnYoungE @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Sulla_Felix Have you noticed Google 'browning' the pictures of the artwork from the Ethiopian coptic church? (hint ... they were *white*)
(DIR) Post #B0vaCbaCxcKbt234Qy by James_Dixon@poa.st
2025-12-05T04:57:14.785971Z
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @clort @BadOptniks @Escoffier @JohnYoungE @Sulla_Felix @patris > and I appreciate the degree of scholarship that I see going into it.They do good work, but as I said, none of us get everything right.