Post Al0GUZ38trGfD4TdpI by freeradical@mastodon.online
(DIR) More posts by freeradical@mastodon.online
(DIR) Post #Akzqb1M5yX7pvZlCCG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-15T16:25:57Z
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I don't know if I believe in mental illnesses that make people ... immoral. And what I mean by immoral is the inability to either through compassion, or through cold logic have the capacity to see the value in other humans and living things and at least *want* to act in ways that help others rather than harm. So I'm always uncomfortable with the idea of calling a person who causes harm "A Narcissist(tm)" because to the extent there is such a mental condition ...
(DIR) Post #AkzqqVvObLmH53ewV6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-15T16:28:52Z
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... and the question if it's really a mental illness is a big one IMO. But, assuming there are people who just don't see others as fully real like themselves there isn't a good reason why that person can't, using LOGIC still be a kind moral person. Out of self interest and the abundant evidence that acting only for self interest is not optimal and less satisfying. So in my view a person could be devoid of natural compassion for others but sill moral (in these sense I explained before)
(DIR) Post #Akzr1D4B3ZkFmHrojg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-15T16:30:48Z
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Likewise I've meet people with huge capacities for empathy who through ignorance, fear, and selfishness have cut off the empathy to some people and these people can be really destructive. I just don't think mental illness is a big factor in if a person is moral or not. It has more to do with if a person can function well with others, the difficulties they may face that few understand. And just plain being sick and needing our patience.
(DIR) Post #AkzrUlBdHGFbzvRdhY by funkula@goblin.camp
2024-08-15T16:36:05Z
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@futurebird have you read/watched the Expanse? This makes me think of Amos, who doesn't seem to have any kind of internal moral instinct, but recognizes this isn't ideal and compensates by attaching himself to the best person he can find and following their instinct instead
(DIR) Post #AkzrWV89wbe0mQeOHY by beecycling@romancelandia.club
2024-08-15T16:36:24Z
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@futurebird Agreed. We can't control our thoughts and feelings, but we can control our actions. And if a person understands themselves enough to know they don't naturally act compassionately without having to make an effort, then they can make the choice to make the effort.A podcaster I listen to, Marcus Parke, who has bipolar, says, "Your mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility."
(DIR) Post #AkzsvtEBaXkIi58hsm by mybarkingdogs@freeradical.zone
2024-08-15T16:52:12Z
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@futurebird I really don't buy the "lack of empathy as excuse," because empathy can be learned *and* there's some scenarios where Too Much empathy can lead someone to harmful actions/ideologies too (best example being how people got recruited into QAnon and similar shit *because* they cared deeply for their children/protecting children in general)
(DIR) Post #AkzuLn8cx5atJ4SDrs by bertwells@mathstodon.xyz
2024-08-15T17:08:05Z
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@futurebird Having helped someone I love through a major psychosis, I would say that a the moral/immoral frame does not apply in some cases of mental illness. IMO, a person in a mental health crisis who harms themselves or others is very often acting amorally (i.e. without regard to right/wrong).The only people to whom the moral/immoral framework applies to in that situation are those who either choose to, or refrain from, from giving aid and protection when someone is harming themselves or others.I always thought it significant that Christ's "beam in the eye" parable framed morality in terms of first person perception: If one can perceive the beam, then the moral onus is on them.
(DIR) Post #AkzvPdLtNVeq4I3SGe by raphaelmorgan@disabled.social
2024-08-15T17:19:58Z
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@futurebird narcissists generally act in our own self interest because we learned from a young age that we have to meet our own needs. Yeah, some will take to abuse and control, but others learn quickly that generally being kind to others is the easiest way to build a network of people who will be kind to us in return. And one or both of these is really what everyone is doing, it's just that others were taught it by their parents and don't see it as self-interest because it comes naturally.
(DIR) Post #AkzwBDONCSTrSFu5hI by hobs@mstdn.social
2024-08-15T17:28:35Z
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@futurebirdYea, #narcissism and #sociopathy are personality types more than illnesses. #Psychopathy is a bit more complicated. There are biological and #genetic causes detectable in blood tests and FMRI scans. Famously, #JamesFallon discovered techniques for preventing, diagnosing, and treating psychopathy... after diagnosing himself. He's spent his life trying to prove wrong his initial belief in genetic determinism. He exercises #empathy and #morality by sheer will: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/
(DIR) Post #Al0EACyl35pL3halQ8 by paulc@mstdn.social
2024-08-15T20:50:07Z
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@futurebird In the world of Frontotemporal Dementia we see people lose compassion and gain the symptoms for narcissism. Partly this can be attributed to the loss of ability to read the emotions of others. It is complex but people close to those with FTD often report that the person was very good in these ways prior to FTD and that they are now "not the person I married" or the parent I knew.
(DIR) Post #Al0GUZ38trGfD4TdpI by freeradical@mastodon.online
2024-08-15T21:16:10Z
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@futurebird I mostly agree but am open to possibility of a medical cause. There’s a body of research on brain trauma and immoral behavior that I’m not qualified to assess. e.g. the famous case of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage