Post Akda2s0eLNI6LsIwcq by JamesGleick@zirk.us
(DIR) More posts by JamesGleick@zirk.us
(DIR) Post #AiOhaOEW5vt5LOBmSm by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-29T22:36:34Z
1 likes, 4 repeats
She has a real good example of how algorithms on platforms like Instagram not only try to make you addicted but also divide us even moreI real LOVE the fact Mastodon and most of the Fediverse software avoids this all together
(DIR) Post #AiOhuIybLfyKpfF0cK by bekopharm@social.tchncs.de
2024-05-29T22:40:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux based.…but damn, I am motion sick now.
(DIR) Post #AiOhxg8lgLHxXibZyq by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-29T22:40:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bekopharm yeah she’s gotta work on filming skills pff
(DIR) Post #AiOi4oXWqrivcVaawK by boltx@mastodon.social
2024-05-29T22:42:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux I don't have a problem with algorithms when they respect user intent, are siloed to their own specific area, and clearly explain what they're doing to rank content... but that basically just doesn't exist on any major social media networks.On Mastodon, I just treat the Explore tab with the most liked posts as my 'algorithm,' just because it's a good way to find new people that others seem to enjoy the writing of, although it does have benefits and tradeoffs compared to a full algorithm.
(DIR) Post #AiOiZWfrKFi7Bi88GW by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-29T22:47:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@boltx indeed! The Explore tab is made for that 👌🏻♥️ and that’s also one of the few if not only place where that’s used indeed for posts 😸
(DIR) Post #AiOiafmiwCO9jYt7K4 by webmariner@mastodon.me.uk
2024-05-29T22:47:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux honestly, I miss the days when the most targeted ads got was your local TV network or newspaper, and they were transparently trying to get you to buy something. now it's all intensely targeted and trying to get people to behave or vote differently which is straight up creepy, let alone the impact on social cohesion and mental health 😔
(DIR) Post #AiOikuR3K3MM4EdHCi by mastobit@awscommunity.social
2024-05-29T22:49:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux @brunomiguel A hallway of funhouse mirrors ever shifting.
(DIR) Post #AiOqc1aW9upvHIKmPI by CapriciousGhost@mastodon.social
2024-05-30T00:17:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux This is horrifying!
(DIR) Post #AiOse5dyFbjGLO3tvE by WizardBear@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T00:40:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux I LOVE #Mastodon. TY for all you do for us here! Algorithms seeding hate and division are great for clicks and worthless "engagement", but not helpful for real convos and interactions. My 2 cents...
(DIR) Post #AiOv0DebLjWjSy2KkS by WhiteCatTamer@mastodon.online
2024-05-30T00:20:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vmstan @stux One of the reasons I’d prefer it if the number comments was like “12 comments (3 unfederated, 2 blocked)” so you know exactly what’s happening.
(DIR) Post #AiOv0ErOrdMJCx24Ku by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T01:06:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@WhiteCatTamer @vmstan oh this is a good one! Perhaps we can do something with this indeed 👌🏻
(DIR) Post #AiOwxwqF5O8MeYWhBA by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-05-30T01:28:53Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@stux 🤔 People keep saying that Mastodon doesn't have this problem "because no algorithms," but Mastodon absolutely does have this problem.For example, whether or not a fediverse user sees this post that I'm writing right now, depends on whether or not their admin thinks that they should see posts from hachyderm, or from me in particular. 🤷🏿♂️Someone is still deciding which replies you see and which ones you don't see, presumably for your safety and enjoyment.
(DIR) Post #AiPCT9yHonsHfDd74q by CurtAdams@urbanists.social
2024-05-30T04:22:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Holy shit, that's terrifying.
(DIR) Post #AiPCUZ9dfpeK3cbuLo by gettingcomputey@beige.party
2024-05-30T04:22:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux You have a real good example here on how masto can quickly "well, actually" you no matter who we are. Well actually, I know our admin has some control, I hope he has not sold out to a nation state's manipulation plan, us being a cult and I mean hey look flowers.
(DIR) Post #AiPF3mAJUWMeSBqKLA by CStamp@mastodon.social
2024-05-30T04:51:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux That took an unexpected turn. Really interesting.
(DIR) Post #AiPKYNzrtlxIFDNAyO by flwrstems@mastodon.social
2024-05-30T05:53:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux and i had been wondering for years how we were going to stop polarization
(DIR) Post #AiPMvNhvLAyrup4XLM by FrankMcCarthyOne@mastodon.social
2024-05-30T06:19:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Is this the Gen z equivalent of small talk? She has a boyfriend, hard to believe .....how does he put up with this continuum of inanity? Wats with the profanity?
(DIR) Post #AiPN5zJCOYAvQgZ59s by LevelUp@corteximplant.com
2024-05-30T06:21:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux when I left the bird, I noticed this pretty quickly. No polarising algorithm. People hate being wrong and the rage bait is part of what keeps people on those platforms. They monetise the polarity of opinions and it's pretty sick imo. We won't be a hive mind here but any time someone disagrees it does feel more organic. I love this place.
(DIR) Post #AiPNHnsGjXAZRQbQRs by icg937@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T06:23:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux And I bet that not only happens with that post. It also happens with posts by AfD, Forza Italia, VOX, Chega... and by democratic parties too. So, polarization and far-right go brrr.
(DIR) Post #AiPQF8kqwaJHC7YVWa by oliof@hachyderm.io
2024-05-30T06:56:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Back in the day at $BIGCO someone coined the term Enragement Tactics for this
(DIR) Post #AiPU4dGrXoeqTDlyca by dev_ric@fosstodon.org
2024-05-30T07:39:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux for anybody who hasn't already seen it, The Social Dilemma is an excellent documentary about this and how dangerous it is, and the people doing the explaining are all former developers of these sites.https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11464826/
(DIR) Post #AiPVufp1PAqtOW85QW by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2024-05-30T08:00:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux companies abusing your reactions is one thing, but people have to be smart and apply empathy here. I don't need to read comments to understand girlfriend being worried, while boyfriend still might having legit reason to not to be there. We should stop judging people about their personal matters that quickly. There are other things we can be angry about, but this ain it.
(DIR) Post #AiPcIqMyRMJymYv1PM by guenther@chaos.social
2024-05-30T09:12:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux (proceeds to share video that is critical of algorithmic content curation on platform without algorithmic content curation)(gets lots of boosts)
(DIR) Post #AiPhoiafOjZBh2LFUe by yours_truly@troet.cafe
2024-05-30T10:13:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux "Yes I know, but I´m immune because ... [rnd thought], and much more intelligent, I have my IQ tested and my Mom says I´m a digital Hero!"""But couldn't it be that others who aren't as smart might take you as an unrealistic example or fail in their attempt to emulate you?""No, all my 50k Followers are as smart as me!"---Fortunately, that was just a stupid thought of mine, irrational fears and confused images in my head... you know. 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AiPpFjgI9MaIZdnq4m by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T11:37:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke True but it does NOT serve you posts based on who you are, you are and what you like to fuel the fire even more 😉 The only thing that could happen is that posts are missing because of blocks indeed
(DIR) Post #AiPpcF2sDeX4De64Rs by zorume@eldritch.cafe
2024-05-30T11:41:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux People are saying in the comments that Mastodon has a similar issue, with the fact that we don't see comments from deferated or blocked instances.But : 1) it's not an algorithm who categorised you and said that you will only see these comments and not the others2) deferated or blocked instances are usually so because of a good reason :) 3) you can get this add-on to fetch all the comments of a post !! Substitoot
(DIR) Post #AiPqFSmJ5wKg6X3BGy by shadowwwind@fosstodon.org
2024-05-30T11:48:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux @mekkaokereke and if someone from my instance is following or boosting the comments. That's probably a pretty big factor too. Unless you use a client like moshiodon that fetches comments from the origin instance as well
(DIR) Post #AiPqvKmPDsuRSb3uqG by keremgo@sakurajima.moe
2024-05-30T11:55:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux I hope #fediverse keeps it that way...
(DIR) Post #AiQ5BxVSP9TnYnxKb2 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-05-30T14:35:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Yes it does. It's just slower and more manual.Because in Mastodon, a boost is closer to a "like" on other platforms.If I start boosting a lot of crypto spam, mods on other servers will be like, "Crypto spam?! Seriously?! What happened to him?! This dude sucks now! Hachyderm, handle that, or else!" Then if Hachyderm doesn't, other admins may defed Hachyderm, or block me individually.Instances that don't like people that like crypto spam, don't let their users see my posts.
(DIR) Post #AiQ5j0OChs9q3fJyGO by rasterweb@mastodon.social
2024-05-30T14:41:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux I'm all for the algorithm that shows me more photos of cats after I search for images of cats. I'm training the algorithm to fulfill my needs!
(DIR) Post #AiQ5tXLz09NlBsIuxc by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-05-30T14:42:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux On all platforms, a like and a boost communicate two things:1) I enjoyed this! (Enjoy)2) Other people should see this! (Visibility)On a platform like TikTok, the "like" button gives a score of 1.0 to "Enjoy" and N<1.0 to "Visibility." TikTok gives the "repost" button a score of N>0.0 to "Enjoy" and N<1.0 to "Visibility."Mastodon gives the "like" button a score of 1.0 to "Enjoy" and 0.0 to "Visibility." It gives boost a score of 1.0 to "Enjoy" and a score of 1.0 to "Visibility."
(DIR) Post #AiQ5tYgE4NAXIwmb9U by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T14:43:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke Is that based from the code?
(DIR) Post #AiQ660tN0IOMHGrzou by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T14:45:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke Also, replies are always in the "same order", ofc sometimes some are missing due to blocks or non-federated etcBut it won't give a per-user based selection of replies based on once interested/gender etcI count that as a win
(DIR) Post #AiQ6w4u1L0vvm405zc by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-05-30T14:55:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Maybe?Other social:"Everyone sees every reply! But we fiddle with the order!"Mastodon:"Not everyone sees every reply! But the order of posts that are seen, is guaranteed to be strictly reverse chronological!"Different trade-offs inherent in the architecture of each.I've posted on here before about how Mastodon's trade-off makes it much easier to racially abuse Black people in the replies, and puts more of the burden of reporting that abuse on victims rather than the community.
(DIR) Post #AiQ8V5H03GjD0t0MlM by thj@mastodon.social
2024-05-30T15:12:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke @stux Pros and cons. Pick your poison. Etc.
(DIR) Post #AiQBs9LRNa4eAElwGG by chartier@toot.cafe
2024-05-30T15:07:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke @stux I see your point to an extent but there’s still a big difference here.Those are admins using Mastodon as it was designed and in line with their values. It’s part of the core point of Masto’s defederated architecture. It isn’t an algorithm tuned to create maximum outrage bait and making weird decisions on what content to show each user based on psychological manipulation. It’s just humans deciding on content based on their choices and instance users making THEIR choices.
(DIR) Post #AiQBsAaMlZbi0olNAG by LALegault@newsie.social
2024-05-30T15:12:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chartier @mekkaokereke @stux There in lies the problem, they do not disclose these “values” prior to sign up for their servers and then censor at will. It is exactly like a manual algorithm. I have been blocked from mastodon social for “holocaust inversion” based on this post by these “values” :
(DIR) Post #AiQBsBQpcVZgdXJGwS by chartier@toot.cafe
2024-05-30T15:41:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LALegault @mekkaokereke @stux I haven’t looked at instances in a while but back when I was shopping around, it seemed like most I saw and were recommended to me all had a CoC that outlined at least broad top-level values. No hate, no -isms, etc.The instance description usually has a simple summary of those values in the description section. But they don’t get into the weeds on every possible topic.
(DIR) Post #AiQBsBtXtkXk4akChM by LALegault@newsie.social
2024-05-30T15:47:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chartier @mekkaokereke @stux I think instead of defending Mastodon when black men and women tell you there is a problem maybe listen and see how we can improve it?
(DIR) Post #AiQBsCKUHa5tQ9Ligy by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T15:50:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LALegault @chartier @mekkaokereke We should always be looking for ways to improve it indeed :blobcathearts: I liked the option someone offered like: sort of a little counter with total replies: (x shown, x blocked & x non-fed) for exampleBut we can also enjoy the features we do have currently while adding new ones 💪 It's not one or the other
(DIR) Post #AiQC0OzV5ikH0SRe9A by LALegault@newsie.social
2024-05-30T15:52:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux @chartier @mekkaokereke The thing is I don’t enjoy the same features as my peers, as you Stux know— I was blocked from your server by a rogue moderator.
(DIR) Post #AiQOAwo1QEbqE8s3E0 by f4grx@chaos.social
2024-05-30T18:08:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux i am convinced that people become dumber and dumber by spending time on tiktok. The addicted looks I see while commuting are not great.
(DIR) Post #AiQOEbglsOgltODxwG by Mtn_Fox@mas.to
2024-05-30T18:09:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Wow. That is foul. Can you imagine being the dickhead who dreamt this up, or the engineers who build it? Yuck.
(DIR) Post #AiQQnZIQxnU4W2dhMO by justafrog@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T18:37:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux One thing I very strongly noticed after arriving in the fediverse was how much calmer I became.
(DIR) Post #AiQU7FkhdZ6zYTwKqO by StillIRise1963@mastodon.world
2024-05-30T19:15:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux This is crazy. I had no idea it went this far.
(DIR) Post #AiQUsycAepTOIthnrE by JMMaok@mastodon.online
2024-05-30T19:23:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux This is a fascinating example. One thing that is missing from the analysis is power. Privileged groups repeatedly seeing affirmation of hostility toward marginalized groups is an especially toxic subset of this divisiveness. Us being “divided” is not the full story.
(DIR) Post #AiQXvaNdW6DVsCqJjk by patmikemid@sfba.social
2024-05-30T19:57:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux - Holy moly. I was watching this video and thought to myself, "yep, @stux and th OP are right, enough of this" and I scroll down further in my Mastodon feed and the video POPS UP on the right hand side and keeps going. Well, for this old guy, I found that ironic.
(DIR) Post #AiQXzMoJuUbGwj7voe by stux@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T19:58:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@patmikemid :blobcatgiggle: Well that's a Mastodon feature where the video keeps going on scroll :flan_laugh: but i get it yess
(DIR) Post #AiQYX1pYQ6e7iukszI by patmikemid@sfba.social
2024-05-30T20:04:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux - Indeed. It was the facebook-esque behavior that I had not yet seen, and revealed to me on a TikTok video, that bemused me.
(DIR) Post #AiQYxMviaysQgvCMoS by cxj@phpc.social
2024-05-30T20:09:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux That was quite revealing.
(DIR) Post #AiQbiVGTcll43mVlCq by christal@social.tchncs.de
2024-05-30T20:40:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux And it is about this on persionalisation and changing behaivour ... not about ads. its the same in real time internet and the order of push notifications and twitter, facebook stream messages or ads you got. Or search answers.And on top of that, the System calculate shown thing in orfer to change your feelings and behaivour. And with every click or recorded microexpression to you a.i. os through your face cam you train it... to feed you.
(DIR) Post #AiQiHKFt9HLvm7DwcS by drdr6262@mastodon.scot
2024-05-30T21:53:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stuxShe's so correct - I just wish she didn''t have to swear about it. It turns a mature message into a puerile rant.
(DIR) Post #AiSM5jGyUzphDOiWRs by cyberlyra@hachyderm.io
2024-05-31T16:54:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stuxi knew it was bad but not this bad.@Incognitim
(DIR) Post #AiUW9ApTYn74yRx0Xg by feudjais@eldritch.cafe
2024-06-01T17:56:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux does anyone have other sources about this ? I need it for a work related thing. Thanks !
(DIR) Post #AjQPkkLbWPYeLjaEa0 by dannotdaniel@mastodon.social
2024-06-29T16:18:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux the real algorithm was the friends we made along the way #fedi
(DIR) Post #AkZIidmT3otaZrbDxw by ddritter@paquita.masto.host
2024-05-31T09:58:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke Are you sure it's not easier to racially abuse black people on Xitter? I'm sure you even get a default boost there nowadays.
(DIR) Post #AkZIieJn3vYCFDBpuC by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-05-31T12:32:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ddritter Yes I'm very sure. It's much easier to abuse Black people here on the Fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AkZIif8q08NqnX4bTM by ddritter@paquita.masto.host
2024-05-31T13:35:57Z
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@mekkaokereke Ouch. Sorry to hear that. I thought that mastodon was better than the other social sites because here you can choose an instance that provides some protection via blocking or filtering.If you have info about how and why Mastodon is worse than Xitter I would appreciate it.Thanks.
(DIR) Post #AkZIifrrIkOd3A8Ye8 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-05-31T16:55:26Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ddritterTwitter:*I make a post at 9am and go about my day*A racist replies with racial slurs at 9:15am*Everyone sees the racist replies*Everyone reports the racist replies*Twitter mods take it down by 10am*I check Twitter again at 11am, and never even see the racism!Masto:*I post at 9am*Racists reply in such a way that only me, them and their followers, see the racism*So no one reports it*Everyone gaslights me with "I don't see racism here!"https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/111012743709881062
(DIR) Post #AkZIigXgnDrB8thxqa by tomjennings@tldr.nettime.org
2024-08-02T21:04:00Z
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@mekkaokereke @ddritter 1) The extent of the visibility problem was far vaster than I ever imagined. This is a technical issue. 2) Your last sentence, gaslighting in essence or explicitly, 'i don't see racism here' l, makes it so much worse, in three ways: the victim suffers alone; those of us who always believe people when they say they've been victimized are left even more clueless and helpless; passively supports silent-majority type default bigots' assumptions.
(DIR) Post #AkZlpsbPFYvLFAEIJE by jesuisatire@social.tchncs.de
2024-08-03T02:30:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux What you hear first, and more offen repeated becomes the truth for you ..
(DIR) Post #AkZqnS2hWkDu3seqnI by ilyhanshi@mastodon.social
2024-08-03T03:25:48Z
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@stux @faiz_AnSA
(DIR) Post #AkZrGhFq34z7ddkRTk by ColesStreetPothole@weatherishappening.network
2024-08-02T18:20:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mekkaokereke @ddritter Thank you! 🙏 This is the best, most concise explanation of how Mastodon's reply filters—which are meant to be a form of protection—can actually be weaponized to enable racist abuse.See that third option below, "Followers only"? Someone with a bunch of racist followers could reply with racist abuse and only the victim and the racists see it.
(DIR) Post #Aka9pBg3F4zT0ubZQG by mvrenselaar@mastodon.nl
2024-08-03T06:59:00Z
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@stux absolutely and the way you can mute people that you don’t want to see as well…. Its great! This is hoe the internet should be: about interesting people, not forced divisiveness
(DIR) Post #AkbMbR3al0nXDlLgGG by Oiselarius@dice.camp
2024-08-03T20:56:55Z
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@stux @dianaprobst I dropped FB and IG when it came out around 2019 that Zuckerberg did a secret research project on this to discover that users of his platforms made him more money when they were triggered so that’s what he told the teams to have the algorithms do.
(DIR) Post #AkbS3PgPxSM4q6fYvJ by pee@mastodon.online
2024-08-03T21:58:00Z
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@stux now imagine such biased comment-trash being fed to a 'sane' person 100's of times a day - what that does to a relationship, to a marriage, to your worldview and subsequently relationship with anyone else you interact with. #SocialMedia
(DIR) Post #AkbeTtdGQfvkhiaZ96 by baltakatei@twit.social
2024-08-04T00:17:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux Historically, such polarizing editing of the same content would be described as propaganda which is usually designed to divide people against themselves into warring factions convenient for the propaganda maker's owner.So, who is the owner and how do they benefit from pitting people against one another?
(DIR) Post #AkcCGN1fkDDCFpjAMS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T06:35:46Z
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@mawhrin @ddritter @mekkaokereke I agree. Will this get harped on like quote tweets were or nah?
(DIR) Post #AkcCHv6cWQDAEymTOy by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-02T15:36:36Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@mekkaokereke I was going to post and agree that the "people can't see the full reply set" design sucks but I looked and saw it was covered upthread. So this is a reply guy yes thing sorry@ddritter
(DIR) Post #AkcCaiQ3uizAOdpwwq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T06:39:27Z
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@mekkaokereke @ddritter Follower's only replies totally have this potential for abuse. And I can see the argument for addressing them given that one of the major reasons quote tweets don't exist is "potential for abuse" (much to my annoyance if I'm honest)There is precedent for making such decisions based on potential for abuse... that's my main point here. Having one but not the other is ... interesting.
(DIR) Post #AkcEJFOglRSjN4zcJM by Sharksonaplane@mastodon.sandwich.net
2024-08-04T06:58:39Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke @ddritter if there's one thing a little different this go-round, it's the way ppl on the core dev team (idk the right term) are making it obvious just what they think abuse is/what abuse directed to whom is "inacceptable".But it's really still: tech features can *help* us keep each other safe, but it always comes down to "we keep each other safe"—it will always be people deciding what drives tech and making moderation calls, so we need spaces that cultivate that.
(DIR) Post #AkcHmAixW89t8dxSNc by pdcawley@mendeddrum.org
2024-08-04T07:37:27Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke @ddritter I confess, I'm at a loss to think of non-abusive uses of followers only replies.Followers only posts, sure, but replies? Nothing but an abuse vector.
(DIR) Post #AkcNn3MexuE6KMKaqO by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T08:44:56Z
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@pdcawley @mekkaokereke @ddritter I can think of non-abusive uses for it. For example if I wanted to share a news story about US pol, but the story isn't CW'd and I've been trying to be consistent about zipping most of that content since I feel bad for internationals and the post volume is grotesque.So I could write a reply, cw my reply and use it to share a call to action or something?However, it also has *more* abuse potential that quote tweets IMO.
(DIR) Post #AkcOu7TSBTwz3QRTvM by pdcawley@mendeddrum.org
2024-08-04T08:57:22Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke @ddritter I'm not sure I understand what a followers only reply achieves over and above you adding a cw.Doesn't a public reply plus a self-boost achieve the same result?
(DIR) Post #AkcOxRFP7j77FVSAcq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T08:57:59Z
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@pdcawley @mekkaokereke @ddritter That would reach a wider group of people.
(DIR) Post #AkcQyjDC1AxFA8A5eC by pdcawley@mendeddrum.org
2024-08-04T09:20:40Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke @ddritter I recognise that I'm probably just another privileged asshole at this point, but is that a bad thing? Especially when eliminating 'followers only' replies (or its current behaviour) genuinely seems to eliminate a very nasty form of abusive posting?Me, I'd make followers only replies work similarly to the way mentions only toots do – make them visible to the followers of everyone mentioned in the toot, but only push them to the replier's followers.
(DIR) Post #AkcRM37s8xt1aMnG6q by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T09:24:52Z
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@pdcawley @mekkaokereke @ddritter I think eliminating it could be a valid move. Especially since we don't have quote tweets for a similar reason. Likewise I could see having *both* implemented. Having one but not the other is what makes no sense to me.
(DIR) Post #AkcRuukZHDrrkAWAwi by pdcawley@mendeddrum.org
2024-08-04T09:31:09Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke @ddritter having non DM type replies invisible to a victim's followers, and un-boostable or QT-able to boot is just too fucked up for words. But… here we are, in the land of unverifiable screenshots.
(DIR) Post #AkcSAGu3C97AnGHBtg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T09:33:57Z
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@pdcawley @mekkaokereke @ddritter I HATE unboostable replies. It always feels like someone grabbed me and pulled me into a dark ally to "talk"Especially since if I respond I might not be able to boost my own reply to them without stripping stuff out of the post and maybe breaking the thread. I don't get why people do it? I tend to mute without comment anyone who seems like a bad actor which works well. So I'm not suffering much, but I've seen this hurt other people.
(DIR) Post #AkcShjDawN5CATN5Iu by pdcawley@mendeddrum.org
2024-08-04T09:39:58Z
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@futurebird @mekkaokereke @ddritter Yeah. Full agreement here.
(DIR) Post #AkcTFYa6zi5x1Z2B2O by erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net
2024-08-04T09:44:42.648310Z
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@futurebird @pdcawley @mekkaokereke @ddritter I’ve used DM replies to add something to a conversation I don’t want to be public. I’ve rarely seen a good use of Followers-only replies though.But its important to understand that “visibility settings” aren’t in the protocol - Public is to: [as:Public, yourUserAccount/followers, everyone, mentioned]; followers only is to: [yourUserAccount/Followers, everyone, mentioned]; DM is to: [everyone, mentioned]“Visibility Settings” and the in-post addressing is an elaborate fiction Mastodon imposed on top of a more flexible protocol
(DIR) Post #AkcU92CeYzJmoyW144 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-04T09:56:06Z
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@sammy @pdcawley @mekkaokereke @ddritter Yeah I think this is why it happens. It's not like they are trying to make things difficult. And there are valid reasons for having those settings ... but, I still find it annoying since 98 percent of what I boost is to give posts more love and visibility.
(DIR) Post #Akd2tk4bBUu6e0BvjE by angiebaby@mas.to
2024-08-04T16:25:29Z
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@stux Mark Zuckerberg is as fascistic and evil as Elon Musk, if not moreso.He just smart enough to not telegraph it on line, every day, all the time.
(DIR) Post #Akda2s0eLNI6LsIwcq by JamesGleick@zirk.us
2024-08-03T18:10:00Z
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@mekkaokereke @blogdiva @stux I feel that you and Stux are not talking about the same problem. Their example is an algorithm that tries to maximize engagement by reinforcing people’s opinions, pushing them to be more and more extreme, and thus increasing the differences between different people. (1/2)
(DIR) Post #Akda2sst5ifz45gGAK by JamesGleick@zirk.us
2024-08-03T18:10:00Z
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Lacking an algorithm, we on Mastodon can certainly divide ourselves into warring camps by choosing whom we follow and, as you say, our choice of admin can be a part of that process.But I don’t see how admins can have anything like the kind of motivation or power granted to the algorithms in commercial social media. (2/2)
(DIR) Post #Akda2tekDmxPSW4TlA by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-08-03T18:38:02Z
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@JamesGleick 1st of all, the algorithm doesn't push people to be more extreme to make the most money. Pushing people to be more extreme makes the least money. Which is why the social networks that make the most money (TikTok, YouTube, Instagram), push things that make people laugh, dance, have fun. And the ones that push extremism (Twitter, 4chan, etc) make less money.As I called: taking a social network that's close to break even (Twitter) and making it more extreme, loses you money.1/N
(DIR) Post #Akda2uUr62do48S5z6 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-08-03T18:40:59Z
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@JamesGleick Twitter and other networks push unpopular extreme content, because their fashy owners want that content.And Stux and I are talking about the same thing, in that split views of the same raw feed of content have an inevitable editorial voice of the person doing the filtering.It's a fantasy to pretend that what we see on Mastodon is some kind of pure, raw unfiltered feed. Your feed is curated by others for safety and enjoyment.
(DIR) Post #Akda2vEwKhVKN40toe by JamesGleick@zirk.us
2024-08-04T14:40:26Z
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@mekkaokereke Of course I agree about the malign behavior of Twitter’s owner. He’s infinitely more of a problem than Twitter’s algorithm would be without him.But I do think you underestimate the destructive power of the social-media algorithms even when the companies themselves aren’t imposing their own political views. Facebook is the prime example. Its algorithm surely does foster rage, divisive, and hatred, as a byproduct of pumping engagement. YouTube too, I believe.
(DIR) Post #Akda2vtht878PV5SMK by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-08-04T16:30:26Z
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@JamesGleick That's something that you believe, in the absence of it being true.Divisive content is the most engaging *for divisive people.* People keep pretending that taking a young Mexican American girl that's into sports, shopping, makeup, and Minecraft, and showing her racist, misogynistic content, is going to turn her into an Andrew Tate loving Trump voter and increase her engagement.It doesn't work that way.
(DIR) Post #Akda2wYTRYiwRwA0u0 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-08-04T17:01:39Z
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@JamesGleick If you look at atrocities committed by people organizing on Facebook for example, those are epic failures of moderation and de-platforming, not just algorithmic boosting.
(DIR) Post #Akda2xHqir1IifOFd2 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-08-04T17:05:02Z
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@JamesGleick My first statement was not unnecessarily rude. It was a statement of fact."Looking for common ground" is the language of people that want to be pleasant but don't want to get to the root of anything. I assume that I have common ground with a lot of reasonable people when it comes to racism and safety, and so I "look for areas where we disagree."Disagreement is not rude. Sometimes people like to say "We're saying the same thing!" when we're saying the opposite thing.
(DIR) Post #Akda2y7bcQQ7JBbaIi by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2024-08-04T17:09:39Z
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@JamesGleick Whether there is an algorithm, or not an algorithm, does not affect whether these weird people misbehave online.As evidenced by the fact that there is no "algorithm" on Mastodon, and yet every objective or qualitative measure of Mastodon shows that there is more racism, more anti-semitism, more CSAM, on the Fediverse than on social networks with algorithms.Eg,🙂🙃https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/24/23806093/mastodon-csam-study-decentralized-networkBecause to my point, it's about moderation and de-platforming, not about algorithms.
(DIR) Post #Akda2yskn88NfPfEn2 by JamesGleick@zirk.us
2024-08-04T17:22:33Z
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@mekkaokereke I don’t dispute that there is more racism on Mastodon than on Facebook (say). I don’t know, personally, but I hear it from you and others I trust.Two things can both be true. 1) Mastodon has a grievous racism problem, due to issues of moderation and de-platforming. 2) Commercial social-media uses algorithms that, intentionally or not, boost hatred, divisiveness, and also racism. At least Mastodon doesn’t have THAT problem. Now it must address the others.
(DIR) Post #Akda2zeFwW8E2jtApc by fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe
2024-08-04T17:59:57Z
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@JamesGleick It's entirely possible to have a Facebook experience that isn't about conflict and to manage your FB feed so it's not like that. The people who find themselves in the most conflict on FB are often starting that conflict in my experience and very much enjoy the conflict (even while claiming to be victimized). It's a form of social power and attention seeking, and an opportunity to rage dump (and that can be a very addictive activity because it's a cathartic release, no different than people who yell at cashiers or Karen demanding to see the manager). Most people aren't actually doing that on FB, at least people I know are in pretty closed networks of friends and extended community (though most of us only use it to check in on people, our local government reps and groups, and upcoming events and sometimes to buy/sell stuff). People certainly aren't staying on FB because they're addicted to drama these days (and that was far more of a Twitter thing anyway it seems). Also, you can't post links to news articles on Meta in Canada so you get fewer right wing trolls/bots swarming the comments. Also (general not directed comment), this attempt to keep making social media responsible for social problems is really just a way to avoid taking the real social causes seriously and doing something about it. @mekkaokereke
(DIR) Post #Akda30QT3GhESGRfyi by tomjennings@tldr.nettime.org
2024-08-04T22:36:57Z
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@fifilamoura @JamesGleick @mekkaokereke My experience also and that of all my friends. Ugly shit occasionally passes by them but somehow, not one of them has been sucked in. There are "fence sitters" who appear to not be bigots, casually or occasionally, like my (ex) car fan groups. The post about cars. But in person rage about the usual bigot crap. And forward "cryptic" (sic -- hardly) eagles and flag crap on FB. They're already bigots; just unrevealed. In the last decade I've known a couple of youngish people who've gone to the dark side; but I've known more who did the opposite, usually after dealing with problems in their lives.
(DIR) Post #AkfJnmGaChw1FJSU3U by cavyherd@wandering.shop
2024-08-05T18:44:17Z
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@stux Okay, that's stark. I sort of knew that intellectually, but wild to see it so vividly demonstrated.