Post AkXMxO0dzWoXVXb5F2 by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
(DIR) More posts by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
(DIR) Post #AkWi1EPhVwjYmh23Q8 by feld@bikeshed.party
2024-08-01T15:03:19.273070Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry @Crell closed federation systems tend to shrink over time and become their own thing, at least from what I've noticed over the years.
(DIR) Post #AkWmJzBikJjeskgvJo by feld@bikeshed.party
2024-08-01T15:51:32.826269Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry @max @ramsey LMAO VAT Tax fraudster who claimed he would emigrate to the USA over a few poundsThis guy can't afford a lawyer, he can't even afford to get his name removed from google search resultshttps://metro.co.uk/2022/11/17/it-worker-on-135000-says-hell-emigrate-over-paying-extra-41-tax-17782036/
(DIR) Post #AkWmgNemS7hp8oxjJg by mischievoustomato@rebased.taihou.website
2024-08-01T15:55:37.320860Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
ah! so the solution is, in the end, twitter 2 essentially
(DIR) Post #AkWmhbklWleR9OLaCG by mischievoustomato@rebased.taihou.website
2024-08-01T15:55:52.597839Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
dabbing on taxes is quite epic ngl
(DIR) Post #AkXDtl11c85e78yCy8 by virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca
2024-08-01T20:59:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry @Crell Meh. It only slows the introduction of new instances, which is hardly a bad thing.You could have multiple levels/rings of acceptance with outer rings accepting everything the inner ring does please more. A process for allowing promotion to inner rings.
(DIR) Post #AkXDtlxW6esV2YKv8i by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-01T21:00:37.492Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca @jerry@infosec.exchange @Crell@phpc.social a web of trust setup leads to monoculture and exclusion
(DIR) Post #AkXFCqDEcFoPgkLRQG by virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca
2024-08-01T21:10:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @CrellWhat is society if not a web of trust? What is a society without laws? Just because laws have been used as a cudgel against the vulnerable does not mean it is inevitable.I hear this same argument from libertarians who argue for little or no governance. That just lets the most powerful win.
(DIR) Post #AkXFCr1Zb64uCrtdsu by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-01T21:15:17.008Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca @jerry@infosec.exchange @Crell@phpc.social fedi is great because you don't have corporations and tech bros making moderation calls but every admin deciding how their slice of the network looks, the network is wide and most are not keen on heavy handed moderation. i can say that heavy handed moderation hugboxes are thankfully still a vocal minority we all have tolerate by pretending we agree just so they don't run their hate mobs on smaller instances.
(DIR) Post #AkXHRZCwJz8jCXM9a4 by adamrice@c.im
2024-08-01T15:11:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry @vmstan @doug Something that might help would be allowing individuals to subscribe to curated block lists, not just admins. Not sure how disruptive that would be to the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AkXHRa6F0NNLy3EJmK by tomjennings@tldr.nettime.org
2024-08-01T21:40:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adamrice @jerry @vmstan @doug User-subscribable block lists seems both incredibly useful and technically less challenging.
(DIR) Post #AkXMxO0dzWoXVXb5F2 by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
2024-08-01T22:42:07.789918Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth @Crell admins and users would still be able to make the call with a web of trust system as well afaics
(DIR) Post #AkXUrpAEuunTcewbFQ by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-02T00:10:46.398Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net @jerry@infosec.exchange @virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca @Crell@phpc.social the web of trust forces you to have policies that are not your own for conformity
(DIR) Post #AkXbkCQZEw4X8QtPIO by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
2024-08-02T01:27:47.681219Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth @Crell How so?
(DIR) Post #AkXcWvqDhCcJsp83CS by Crell@phpc.social
2024-08-02T00:21:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth @Hyolobrika Welcome to any society ever. Engaging in a community means accepting those community norms. If you can't, you're not welcome in that community.Communities that had bad norms either die off or get taken over by nazis.The idea that anyone can exist in a group of humans and *not* adapt to it and normalize to the mean is shear and utter hubris.
(DIR) Post #AkXcWweChMbENqVy6q by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
2024-08-02T01:36:35.366282Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crell @jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth I wish I had a community of people who already share my values or at least with norms that I could accept.
(DIR) Post #AkYghekIBuU51RgYjI by nikclayton@mastodon.social
2024-08-02T13:58:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tomjennings @adamrice @jerry @vmstan @doug So, about that...https://mastodon.social/@pachli/112892161702632611
(DIR) Post #AkYjikkjdrM5nz6hu4 by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-02T14:31:54.006Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net @Crell@phpc.social @jerry@infosec.exchange @virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca fedi is great because it caters to non conformity, the whole we need a web of trust society thing is an L take imo
(DIR) Post #AkYkvjNQAY3pFwxEVU by asael@mastodon.ml
2024-08-01T17:10:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixelate @jerry just the american problem. Why we don't have problems with it?
(DIR) Post #AkYkvjwA5NqkzhCyem by clacke@libranet.de
2024-08-02T13:20:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@asael Congratulations. You are now step six of the cycle, "don't see anything of what the victim is complaining about anywhere on the fediverse".And by jumping in after you and pointing that out, I am step seven of the cycle, "encouraging people to believe the victim".@pixelate @jerry
(DIR) Post #AkYmEZbunthIQIHZwG by mauve@mastodon.mauve.moe
2024-08-02T04:56:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry this is exactly why I included some default blocklists in the fedi impl we're working on at distributed press. Having even the bare minimum like garden fence means not having to deal with a large amount of garbage for new and vulnerable users.
(DIR) Post #AkYnSITlOXrbIbZrYu by Crell@phpc.social
2024-08-02T15:04:52Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth @Hyolobrika "Non-conformity" means "accept people who don't conform to the expectation of not-a-racist-nazi."You need some way to define your kind of non-conformity as OK, and someone else's as not. With a tool that is a level playing field for both.This is why social systems are hard. There is no way to accept "only my kind of weird" without active ongoing human review and curation.No curation, you get nazis. Every time. Every single time.
(DIR) Post #AkYnSJ9at1K9OL9GlM by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-02T15:13:45.392Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crell@phpc.social @jerry@infosec.exchange @virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net it's easy to block actual nazis, the problem is that we got to a point where everyone who fails the progressive purity testing is considered a nazi. the vibes on the canceldon areas of the network are insufferably paranoid and simply does not tolerate a different point of view on how to deal with the trolls.
(DIR) Post #AkYoBgtxRIqW4jTW4W by virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca
2024-08-02T15:16:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @Crell I challenge anyone who complains about cancelling to explain in detail what was said to who that got the person cancelled, and how that was ok/not-ok.
(DIR) Post #AkYoBhsvmbcR7q0D6u by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-02T15:21:57.926Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca @jerry@infosec.exchange @Crell@phpc.social me, for not being pure enough ideologically for the race marxists of fediblock.
(DIR) Post #AkYoJMDuCk2UG9Sebw by Crell@phpc.social
2024-08-02T15:19:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth @Hyolobrika Because the lines between "OK", "Not OK", and "Fuck No" are not at all clear, or even remotely close to universal. For people to have a community, they need to negotiate and compromise on what those lines will be for that group. Literally "defining what is non-conforming" is what defines a community.Can that be done "too tight"? Sure. Can it be done "too permissive"? Sure. Humans are hard.But falling back on Libertarian dogma is not an answer.
(DIR) Post #AkYoJMn06G700zsgJU by AkIN5RMKVSkgqIBLWa.jeff@mk.magicka.org
2024-08-02T15:23:20.765Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Crell@phpc.social @jerry@infosec.exchange @virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net fedi is a libertarian clusterfuck, that's just how it is.
(DIR) Post #AkYoadAOSkbDjP3TKS by Crell@phpc.social
2024-08-02T15:25:07Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virtuous_sloth @jeff @jerry I was thrown out of the Drupal community a few years ago because the project lead found out I was involved in alt-lifestyle stuff (consensual D/s), thought it was icky and sexist, and so made up a fake rape accusation against me and engaged in blatant autism shaming, too (of my supposed victim, who publicly said he was full of it).(Mind you, it was an open secret that he'd cheated on his wife with his secretary, and no one seemed to care.)
(DIR) Post #AkYuAHSn8EeAcETlEe by Crell@phpc.social
2024-08-02T15:29:33Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth @Hyolobrika Emphasis on clusterfuck.Libertarianism is a fundamentally broken political philosophy, based mainly on the principle of "you can't make me!"Left-Libertarian, Right-Libertarian, Techno-Libertarian, it's all rotten to the very core.
(DIR) Post #AkYujGwD4rxd7ZvNiq by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
2024-08-02T16:35:15.465282Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crell @jeff @jerry @virtuous_sloth What if you can't make anyone but people can voluntarily decide to form communities where everyone agrees to act a certain way?That's basically voluntarism I believe. Which is a form of libertarianism.It's also how the internet fundamentally works. Very little actual force is possible on it. Except maybe cyberattacks, but those are rare. Probably because the equivalent to "land" is practically infinite, which means that there is no reason to compete over it.
(DIR) Post #AkZ0rzXDkaeLTgmET2 by Crell@phpc.social
2024-08-02T16:38:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika @virtuous_sloth @jerry @jeff Then you still have to deal with throwing people out who won't agree. And if your community is itself a valuable resource (network, popular server, subreddit, LinkedIn, a popular mail server/domain, etc.), you're denying that person access to that resource.Bits may be infinitely available, but humans are not.You cannot get away from having to deal with people you don't like. (Also why voluntarism/anarchism is naive.)
(DIR) Post #AkZ0s0HexvnRniVJqq by Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net
2024-08-02T17:44:02.194695Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crell @virtuous_sloth @jerry @jeff I think there's a happy medium.>if your community is a valuable resource, then you're denying people access to that resourceBut what if people can talk among themselves without admin intervention so they can agree on a replacement if you start moderating in a way they don't like?Maybe by everyone having contact details for an out-of-band communications platform in their bios and a client or extension automatically saving them and pinning keys in case something happens to them.I would also like everything (such as posts, threads, attachments, bios, user metadata) to be constantly signed and hashed, and public keys and hashes would be automatically saved in the same way, allowing the client/extension to detect when content is altered or deleted, which it would inform the user about in the interface.
(DIR) Post #AkZ72yxSpnVObEfyVM by michal@spondr.cz
2024-08-02T08:56:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry This is surprising to me, because I don't see anything like this in our little Czech Fediverse bubble. I would also expect that the principle of decentralization will take care of this, that admins will protect their instances and block instances that are based on people full of hate. I'm curious to see where this goes.
(DIR) Post #AkZ72zZkXS88VyaYBE by clacke@libranet.de
2024-08-02T14:56:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@michal There are certainly kind corners of Fedi. I've always been able to find them, but I've been here a long time, and I belong to the most privileged group.The main question is how we prevent a newcomer from walking through the unmoderated wastelands before they find their kind corner.
(DIR) Post #AkZ731RfaSr6JUp7rc by clacke@libranet.de
2024-08-02T14:57:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
What @jerry suggests here, or elsewhere in the tread, or what I infer from the comments across the thread, is a combination of social and technical measures, and they're not so different from what @mekkaokereke suggests:- The onboarding experience is key. People come in from JoinMastodon, and need to be presented with good information with which to make good choices.- Servers you can easily reach from JoinMastodon need to have at least a basic level of blocking of the vilest troll instances. Good defaults.- Server admins and/or members need to be able to subscribe to collaboratively managed blocklists. Good tool support for good social mechanisms.Okereke's pinned post, which asks for a superset of a subset of what I just said:hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/110…@michal
(DIR) Post #AkZ732pSRVTgbYxda4 by ColinOatley@mas.to
2024-08-01T16:38:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry @briankrebs This is enlightening. Thank you. A clear problem statement is a necessary step towards solving this.
(DIR) Post #AkZ736pFaDgl04tWoS by andrew@esq.social
2024-08-01T16:46:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry No worries I can pull it down, thanks so much -- should have looked closer before bothering you. Eyes glazed right over it. Thanks!
(DIR) Post #AkZ737hqJFMDjOR7uC by nikclayton@mastodon.social
2024-08-02T14:19:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@andrew @jerry These are available as JSON using the API.https://infosec.exchange/api/v1/instance/domain_blocks
(DIR) Post #AkZt8P4BzEKmozTRKK by scalene@signs.codes
2024-08-03T00:48:28Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry wow thank you for sharing this. I learned a lot about mastodon/ fediverse just now. 🙏
(DIR) Post #AkjVLBcKqabjYRbcMC by vbabka@social.kernel.org
2024-08-07T18:45:57.519717Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Today being heavily reminded that "The fediverse prides itself as a much more civilized social media experience" is really, really wrong. Some people are behaving genuinely mental today.
(DIR) Post #AktODnOtjIjOK2RsG0 by clacke@libranet.de
2024-08-12T13:29:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@RenewedRebecca Servers could allow members to subscribe to blocklists, and clients (including the default web client) could provide controls to interact with those subscriptions, that's how I interpreted your uncaffeinated comment. 😊Whether that's what you originally intended to say or not, that sounds like a great idea.@nikclayton
(DIR) Post #Al2NFehsfm9WPGI2bo by adamrice@c.im
2024-08-02T14:32:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nikclayton @tomjennings @jerry @vmstan @doug It is cool that you are working on this.I’m not really a programmer, but it seems to me the bigger technical challenge with per-user block lists is preventing blocked griefers from seeing posts by the user with the block list. I would want to be invisible to those who I block.
(DIR) Post #Al2NFfl6lGKPfYo8HI by nikclayton@mastodon.social
2024-08-02T15:03:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adamrice @tomjennings @jerry @vmstan @doug Yes. So to avoid confusion.If you **block** an account or server on Mastodon that's what happens (https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moderating/#block).The #Pachli changes will drive client-side **server filtering**. This is not as "strong" as a block (as noted in the caveats section of the post) but it also avoids collateral damage.The UX should make it easy for a user to go from "I am looking at a filtered post" to "I have blocked that account or server".
(DIR) Post #Al2NFgLGapFfThj0dc by dynamic@social.coop
2024-08-16T20:26:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nikclayton @adamrice @tomjennings @jerry @vmstan @doug I like the idea of user-level blocklists. I'm not enamored with the feature being confined to an app, but I guess it might be better than nothing.An important caveat here is that if you make a *public* Mastodon post there is no way of completely preventing bad actors from viewing it, even if you block those users or instances.Public posts can be viewed by loading their URL in any browser.
(DIR) Post #Al2NFgqohWUN3YUCoa by tomjennings@tldr.nettime.org
2024-08-16T21:41:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dynamic @nikclayton @adamrice @jerry @vmstan @doug I never understood the latter choice. I've got my posts set to delete after 90 days. I don't get the urge to save posts. Conversation is ephemeral. Persistent texts go on the web or something. Ymmv...
(DIR) Post #AlCyGuvJVLu2sMdYlk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-08-22T00:23:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jerry> I think the ambiguity here is why we continue to see the problem repeat itself over and over - there is no obvious owner nor solution to the problem. At every step, things are working as designedThis is uncommonly insightful. Thanks for writing this post.I tried to engage constructively on this right back when Dr Flowers was first sharing his 'whiteness of Mastodon' reflections, and blogged the resulting thought here;https://strypey.dreamwidth.org/3689.htmlI fear I was seen as a "reply-guy" : /