Post AkUW0Tv6mvpGozg9js by lysdexic@hachyderm.io
(DIR) More posts by lysdexic@hachyderm.io
(DIR) Post #AkUKcdYIE4xeFUR0UK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T11:31:16Z
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Who voted in every election is public record. There isn't, however, a centralized database available to the public. I can see benefits to having this information more accessible: * Many don't know how many elections they have missed. There are about 7 every 4 years. If you aren't voting that often you are missing elections.* It'd make it clear how absurd claims of voter fraud are* It'd motivate more voting. However...1/
(DIR) Post #AkUKqPWNBorCmq6X3o by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T11:34:13Z
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I can see people also finding such a tool invasive feeling and there might be ways to abuse it?(But, exactly how? Can we break this down please?)These databases **already exist** But they are private and expensive. Cleaning, matching and curating data is a part of the massive dark data market and I've never understood why having some strangers secretly knowing everything about me is better than everyone knowing everything about everyone?2/2
(DIR) Post #AkULHSNqefTxU20u6C by jmax@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T11:39:06Z
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@futurebird Only explanation I've found that seems to fit is that you can pretend it isn't happening if the database isn't public.
(DIR) Post #AkULlYJ5CIPmXc8Rjk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T11:44:33Z
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@jmax If you believe, as I do, that information can be a form of power it seem generally true that making it available to everyone (and this means making it something ordinary people can work with) is the better option. Why can't we have an app that shows your congresspersons and mayors etc. all the dates of elections, when you voted last and when you need to vote again?Why is food delivery more organized than voting? (I know why.)
(DIR) Post #AkULv6laRiyI1S1ZM8 by viq@social.hackerspace.pl
2024-07-31T11:46:10Z
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@futurebird how do you identify a person in the database? "John Smith" is not exactly unique. SSN? Those aren't supposed to be public. Exact address? Uh...
(DIR) Post #AkUM7NKyf6rKtIQZ28 by benetherington@spacey.space
2024-07-31T11:48:28Z
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@futurebird unfortunately, the voter rolls aren’t pseudo-private to prevent a bad thing, or because the voters are uncomfortable with it. They’re pseudo-private because a) states don’t trust each other or care to cooperate with each other (see ERIC) and b) because this system concentrates wealth; bringing riches to the owners of the aggregation companies, and restricting the public’s knowledge.
(DIR) Post #AkUMRvxJf4W038AAfQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T11:52:10Z
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@viq A name and zip code are enough to determine a particular person using other profiling data with very high accuracy using private data brokers. Especially for the population of people who tend to vote who have larger digital footprints. Now what is legal? I don't know as much about that. I do know SSN are not tied to such records they are not supposed to be used for identification at all. (LOL but they are constantly)
(DIR) Post #AkUMhcBQwTLxMOFAcS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T11:55:02Z
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@viq We have some real issues, as a nation with the question of if we really need to know who is living in the country at all. Technically you do not need to participate at all. Functionally it's impossible From what I've seen that means that all information is monopolized by private entities & often for nefarious purposes.But talk about giving everyone a national ID number and the whole country will freak out. Even though these basically already exist.
(DIR) Post #AkUMpYzmg7xzn1aKPI by mikey@friendsofdesoto.social
2024-07-31T11:55:50Z
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@futurebird @jmax You're right on the need and the why. There are non-profits that are trying to fill the gap, like https://ballotpedia.org but the concept that we have a democracy so slanted against any ease of access to the democratic process is what may prove to be its undoing.
(DIR) Post #AkUN646YmaEeuHcgUq by aadeacon@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T11:59:20Z
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@futurebird @viq Do you not have Social Security numbers? These are basically a national ID number
(DIR) Post #AkUNGUIGGhRB1e49QG by dendari@mastodon.world
2024-07-31T12:00:45Z
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@futurebird @jmax And why doesn't filing for an elected office not require some basic questions to be answered like, why, what will you do, what have you done in the past. Then post those on the relevant county, state, or federal website.
(DIR) Post #AkUNMLN6Lvzt5m7drc by viq@social.hackerspace.pl
2024-07-31T12:02:18Z
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@futurebird the premise you gave was "I can check when/whether I voted". That requires "the database" to store enough additional information to find which of the entries are mine, and not of the John Smith living 3 houses away, nor of John Smith on the next street over. And since also your premise, as I understood it, was for the database to be public, I understand that this additional information would be accessible to everyone else as well.
(DIR) Post #AkUNe1Rx9z6OWCozaa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T12:05:33Z
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@aadeacon @viq You are correct they are "basically" a national ID number and has been drafted into doing the work of such a number numerous times. A SSN isn't proof of citizenship. And *legally* they can't be used as a form of identification. They are supposed to be "private" (HOW is this possible IDK) and only used for the retirement plan and nothing else. The whole thing is deeply controversial in inscrutable ways I don't fully understand.
(DIR) Post #AkUNpjmGgujFBRuT32 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T12:07:41Z
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@viq Yes, if you have the same name as someone else you might see multiple results. The address should clear it up most of the time.
(DIR) Post #AkUNwoNdyasTUClV7A by viq@social.hackerspace.pl
2024-07-31T12:08:58Z
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@futurebird I very much do not want my exact address to be easily discoverable in a well known location by anyone who wants to look.
(DIR) Post #AkUOEu77OkKcTrf984 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T12:12:15Z
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@viq That's already out there, though. I used to work as a database manager. There are tons of public lists connecting names with addresses and tools that connect them with other databases. However were I to implement such a site for voting we could leave the addresses out and it'd still be a very useful tool.
(DIR) Post #AkUOdERpRqvQUmwym0 by viq@social.hackerspace.pl
2024-07-31T12:16:38Z
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@futurebird I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful. I'm not saying that such information is not out there. I'm saying that doing it the easy way has implications for privacy, and doing it in a privacy preserving way can be difficult.
(DIR) Post #AkUP83KSpzW6zLCa6i by rubinjoni@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T12:21:07Z
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@futurebird @jmax Because there's a profit incentive to deliver food and prevent people from voting. (stating the obvious)
(DIR) Post #AkUPawnoBOAd8zho00 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T12:27:28Z
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@viq "I very much do not want my exact address to be easily discoverable in a well known location by anyone who wants to look."I also want to say this is a normal thing to want so if it seems I'm being ... dismissive. That isn't intentional. I think most people want this. It's just not what we have at all.
(DIR) Post #AkUQ0W2qHyyXgbvgzA by viq@social.hackerspace.pl
2024-07-31T12:31:55Z
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@futurebird nah, I understand, there's limitations and goals and wider picture. And "just because *I* don't make this information readily available (in the process making my life much harder), doesn't mean it can't be easily grabbed from dozens of other places". Just presenting a side in this discussion for things that people might not consider. Though I guess seeing where we are having this discussion, this crowd is probably quite likely to do consider this.
(DIR) Post #AkUT0HfM35yuxBWZTU by StarkRG@myside-yourside.net
2024-07-31T13:05:18Z
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@futurebird @jmax In almost any discussion I've ever had with an American where the concept of compulsory voting came up they seem to have a visceral reaction and claim it would impinge on free speech or something ridiculous. The US already has compulsory jury duty, compulsory selective service registration for males (and the potential compulsory military conscription), so why does compulsory voting cause such a negative reaction?
(DIR) Post #AkUT4dAA49SWmd0TL6 by theantlady@arthropod.social
2024-07-31T13:05:59Z
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@futurebird We used to have phone books. Seems like a precedent.
(DIR) Post #AkUUdtJu5OAkz1wOhM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T13:23:51Z
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@wholegroanoats I think it would be more obvious how difficult voter fraud is if more people knew about these records.
(DIR) Post #AkUVQnezuwbhcT83Wa by michael_w_busch@mastodon.online
2024-07-31T13:32:49Z
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@futurebird Per the rest of your thread, it matters a lot how such a database is structured and who has access to what information.I know someone who did not vote in several elections; because they had been stalked and their state did not make it easy to have their home address redacted from the public voter list.
(DIR) Post #AkUW0Tv6mvpGozg9js by lysdexic@hachyderm.io
2024-07-31T13:39:05Z
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@futurebird There are people who don't/can't vote because the records can be used by abusive family members and stalkers. Many states have address confidentiality services, but they have different standards.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_confidentiality_program
(DIR) Post #AkUWTKIJegmvMkHw9I by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T13:44:31Z
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@lysdexic Do you think this information should be confidential?
(DIR) Post #AkUfUgmuPTVb0NK3cm by lysdexic@hachyderm.io
2024-07-31T15:22:11Z
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@futurebird I have mixed feelings. You make a good point that having my information available to me would be helpful. In CA I can look up my registration status pretty easily, and my county site shows if there's an election that's pertinent to me coming up, as does the mail in ballot I get. I do remember people post 2020 coming through lists claiming fraud for places that "didn't add up" because of absentee votes. (cont)
(DIR) Post #AkUwCqD0LKGEEQbUga by funnymonkey@freeradical.zone
2024-07-31T18:32:42Z
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@futurebird The privacy abuses for something like this are staggering. Because voter records are accurate representations of where a person lived (or has lived), it can be used as a vector for abuse and harassment in its own right, and as a means for cross referencing finds from other datasets.The transparency laws that put these made voting records public records need to be rethought - these records are constantly abused.
(DIR) Post #AkVBYutV6NesRkSv44 by lufthans@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T21:24:53Z
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@futurebird @jmax I won't install either app :)I do however check voting information via government run election siteCouldn't find sample ballot to know who was runningBallotpedia was useful, but had inaccuracies
(DIR) Post #AkVjtnamqGQoK5qDL6 by andyhilmer@mstdn.social
2024-08-01T03:49:37Z
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Sort of like the public libraries listing who has a library card and how often they use it. I think it would be another vector for harassment, but also to honeypot the worst of the worst. Not a good idea I think except as an opt-in for pols who want to prove their level of engagement in elections or whatever. @futurebird