Post AkSTKJ2OGq8OgOvVjc by faassen@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by faassen@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AkSFIJn965KX5HxCrY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:22:34Z
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Rebecca Watson had a great video on the conspiracy theories about the assassination. Conspiracy theories I was totally unaware were anything more than vague notions or memes. This is supposedly "on the left" but where exactly? Not on here! I have my own conspiracy theories about that: X, twitter, threads et al are infected with right wing trolls posing as liberals and left leaning people who are trying to sow chaos just like they did in 2016
(DIR) Post #AkSFcA1t6Py0bCJLbk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:26:12Z
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In 2016 I was active on facebook. I participated in a lot of political discussions and groups. And I was totally taken in hook line and sinker by right wing trolls posing as the left spreading rumors about HRC. I'm being open about how I was tricked because I think of myself as pretty sharp. I hope at least some of you don't think of me as a dummy. It can work on anyone. It can work on you. If you think it can't? That just makes you more vulnerable.
(DIR) Post #AkSFqexMufWQZW6vsO by CharlotteEowyn@chaosfem.tw
2024-07-30T11:28:48Z
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@futurebird Yeah, honestly it is shocking how many accounts are bots, and now AI-bots.I've seen memes where people sometimes talk to them as if they are AI and make them spout off poetry; but like, I don't even know if those memes are real, because apparently it doesn't ALWAYS work.Truth and fiction are harder to judge; I remember Hannah Arendt saying that was one of the primary goals of facism.
(DIR) Post #AkSFvhcGS5cUGhdzw8 by evan@cosocial.ca
2024-07-30T11:29:43Z
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@futurebird I don't think it's far-fetched. We know that authoritarian manipulators use leftist messages to shift elections.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html
(DIR) Post #AkSFyFmKPNYCnfZGYi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:29:46Z
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The trolls never got me to believe things I couldn't verify. They simplify amplified the existing issues with democratic candidate. They emphasized that HRC would not stop the US military from being a force of destruction globally. They highlighted her and her husband's low grade corruption. They pointed out how Democrats take black votes for granted. Which they do. Did I vote for Trump? Not vote? Hell no! But that isn't what it was about.
(DIR) Post #AkSG7cDgLG3b0SpIie by HauntedOwlbear@eldritch.cafe
2024-07-30T11:31:53Z
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@futurebird I remember reporting on this for the publication I worked for when a bunch of false leftist influencer accounts were discovered to be spoiler ops.There were so many that cleverly targeted niche affinities, and I recognise many that my friends and fellow organisers had inadvertently shared.
(DIR) Post #AkSGORBGdarFh0ibGC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:34:47Z
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There was no chance of someone convincing me to vote for anyone but HRC. I'd seen enough of Trump to know exactly what we were dealing with and how dangerous it was. But what the right wing trolls *did* manage to do was mute my enthusiasm for HRC winning. That made me a less effective at getting others to care.When I discovered they were faking being on the left I quit facebook. I was mortified and horrified at how I had been manipulated.
(DIR) Post #AkSGxLpqVJ7zFWLYwq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:41:11Z
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@mattjhodgkinson I explain more in the thread but mostly it was about pointing out how Democrats have failed to really take the concerns of the left seriously using arguments that were largely true. The "Democratic Plantation" meme was a bit too obvious for me, but think of a softer version of that. Also minimizing the legitimate joy that electing a first woman as president ever would represent. Robbing all the joy.
(DIR) Post #AkSHDuE6PEA6XraQCW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:44:14Z
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@CharlotteEowyn In 2016 it wasn't bots. These were people who were very informed about US politics and willing to type for hours countering and injecting their ideas all over the place... pretending to be "on the left" But when you looked deeper they all signed up recently. Had no real people on facebook... no family, no school friends and talked about only one subject. And they were inconsistent. Taking stances that contradicted each other.
(DIR) Post #AkSHP1A0xvHfEhyNzE by Pagan_Animist@beekeeping.ninja
2024-07-30T11:46:12Z
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@futurebird Your experience was pretty nasty. I hope your warning helps.
(DIR) Post #AkSHhge9SZrN7DyI5o by NoFlexZone@blacktwitter.io
2024-07-30T11:49:35Z
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@futurebird I'd have to say BlueAnon is v real from 1. The inability of some libs to actually cope with the concept that some people will not vote for someone complicit in genocide,2. And the deep deep unwillingness of the same group of people to learn from history (ask a lib pushing 60 about any coup the US did during their lifetime, they either justify it, don't known about it, or claim it was 'long ago' and so doesn't matter) re War, Immigration, Healthca
(DIR) Post #AkSHrkAHEajUvGnFA0 by InkySchwartz@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T11:51:25Z
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@futurebird This is why I made this post and reference it when needed. It does seem to weed out both false liberals and lazy liberals.https://mastodon.social/@InkySchwartz/112756832657834699
(DIR) Post #AkSIHZ4d5qVA3NSq8G by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T11:55:48Z
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@mattjhodgkinson I hope other people will answer this question.
(DIR) Post #AkSIhzMfxyCx7gVNfk by tofugolem@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T12:00:51Z
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@futurebird There is nothing that happened in that shooting that can't be explained with Hanlon's razor.
(DIR) Post #AkSJu5c6euE1vt3ZWy by llewelly@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T12:14:05Z
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@futurebird a major part of the problem is that our modern societial reaction to people getting tricked is the functional equivalent of blaming a murder victim for not wearing a bulletproof vest.
(DIR) Post #AkSKuQm05VefVoPY36 by LightFIAR@med-mastodon.com
2024-07-30T12:05:31Z
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@Homebrewandhacking @futurebird Sadly, HRC did suck for most of the reasons you described. More than any right wing trolls, HRC's record caused millions not to vote. Not Russian bots. Her own record and platform. Harris is not HRC but she'll be another corporate tool no doubt. Base your views on the facts and demand sources. That may help defend against the trolls. And meantime? Yes, let's get Harris in and fight as needed to save our only planet.
(DIR) Post #AkSKuRqe5ixsqValvc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T12:25:29Z
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@LightFIAR @Homebrewandhacking I agree that the fundamentals do matter. You can't run rumors about someone ... violating the sofa unless it has a ring of truth to it. Information environments also matter. It's concerning to hear that lots of people are discussing these "blue anon" assassination conspiracy theories -- but I see no sings of that happing in my environment?It makes me think of 2016 when I was immersed in negativity about HRC.
(DIR) Post #AkSLJ5GJCdoG2ILKQi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T12:29:57Z
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@LightFIAR @Homebrewandhacking If there is a sharp divergence between the topics of discussion and tone in different online spaces it makes me wonder to what extent bad actors are play a role in making that happen. And even if you don't believe in any of the the idea being spread just seeing those ideas often makes them seem more normal. It makes them worthy of discussion. And controlling what is worthy of discussion can shape political landscapes.
(DIR) Post #AkSMeDqgZZKAhd09gW by lionelb@expressional.social
2024-07-30T12:45:00Z
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@futurebird I am seeing posts here with the formula "I am from (xyz) minority and the Fediverse is far more toxic than X/Twitter". Those are transparent attempts to sucker and I block those accounts instantly.
(DIR) Post #AkSMuXyTVurrkqQfKK by acdha@thepit.social
2024-07-30T12:47:55Z
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@futurebird I felt like those attacks became especially effective when they hit critical mass where genuine people started repeating the same mood. I saw that in places like Metafilter where it fed into this “nobody really likes her” vibe even if it was hard to pin down specific reasons. Repetition worked. I’m optimistic this time around both because Harris lacks the essy negative targets and a lot of voters are adamant not to take it for granted.
(DIR) Post #AkSOgBWWO9lByjdKYS by FeralRobots@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T13:07:44Z
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@futurebird I wasn't tricked. I knew those people who'd mounted the greased slide from granola to conspiracyland. They were real. Often they accused me of calling them bots (I never did). I saw them go Q & I saw them go for extreme conspiracies in the other direction, & I saw how easy it was for them to slip across the horseshoe gap.Absolutely there are bots. I wouldn't deny that. But I saw real people go Q, antivax, etc.
(DIR) Post #AkSPqZJwrkOUdOGf32 by samiamsam@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T13:19:56Z
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@futurebird @CharlotteEowyni don't get tricked about politics by anyone or the mediai never vote for republicans - my first vote was for Jimmy Carternever have, never will, have never voted for even one republican
(DIR) Post #AkSQjZGImndiNYmtn6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T13:30:44Z
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@acdha "I felt like those attacks became especially effective when they hit critical mass where genuine people started repeating the same mood. "This is such a good point and what I'm trying to convey is that I saw how these ideas were repeated and the focus was shifted in a manipulative way.
(DIR) Post #AkSQrcPmwmj0TU41M8 by nancylwayne@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T13:30:28Z
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@futurebird You're no dummy!! As you point out, we're all susceptible to social manipulation. It's part of cybersecurity training I go through every year.
(DIR) Post #AkSR0Ihnb0nlx8d07c by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T13:33:50Z
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@lionelb The most *visible* post that is like that is very much from a real person and I know them. (although the post I'm thinking of didn't say it's "worse" here just that there is still an issue)As others have said it's complex.
(DIR) Post #AkSR7uMVzIEMloIfTc by Lazarou@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T13:32:49Z
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@futurebird you know, I came off Facebook around about the same time, but it was Brexit here, not trump.Fuck Facebook.
(DIR) Post #AkSRFonOZEsjp4e3P6 by drakenblackknight@mastodon.online
2024-07-30T13:36:35Z
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@futurebird @acdha I think because people are aware of the guilty parties behind 2016 (both Fecalbook themselves and Cambridge Analytica) more people are going to be wary of MAGA-themed memes.
(DIR) Post #AkSRYo3jWuIt2aLDmK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T13:39:35Z
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@drakenblackknight @acdha They often aren't MAGA themed. It could be something about Harris being "a cop" --and she has leaned into her law enforcement background and said some "tough on crime" things. In reality she's about the same as other Democrats on this issue: meaning she falls short if you take issues like BLM seriously. Falls *short* is very far from making everything worse in every way possible. It will be stuff like that.
(DIR) Post #AkSRk7L0C1dg18oPWC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T13:42:04Z
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@samiamsam @CharlotteEowyn I don't know you all that well so this could totally be true. But I want to challenge you to suspect that maybe it isn't. Which is uncomfortable. Something I've been sitting with myself. I like to reintegrate ideas I was wrong about so that they don't exist when I think back on how I used to look at things. Because being wrong sucks and no one wants to ever be wrong, not even in the past, not even if I changed later.
(DIR) Post #AkSRz07RJYDjyMZ71U by lionelb@expressional.social
2024-07-30T13:44:45Z
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@futurebird Exactly. I would never block anyone for expressing concerns. My issue is with the 'worse than' formula.Since I don't have the time or energy to research each post, I take that formula as a troll flag.
(DIR) Post #AkSSfCSTpLQsPAWr0i by michael_w_busch@mastodon.online
2024-07-30T13:52:22Z
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@futurebird I have encountered a couple of self-identified leftists promoting conspiracist ideas like those @rebeccawatson described.Looking into them; they appeared to be accelerationist types who ignore all the differences between the political opinions of those they disagree with (or who pretend those differences are part of a conspiracy - one asserted "all politics is kayfabe").If they count as leftists or not would would be arguable.
(DIR) Post #AkSSh7iYQLzwHTxs5Q by CharlotteEowyn@chaosfem.tw
2024-07-30T13:52:39Z
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@futurebird @samiamsam I've been wrong in life more often than I've been right, so I feel that.
(DIR) Post #AkSSkmX38KftjXKOAa by afewbugs@social.coop
2024-07-30T13:49:07Z
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@lionelb @futurebird whereas here you have to get every harassing instance blocked, and bad actor instances pop up faster than admins can play whack-a-mole blocking them. Plus if you block someone on an individual account level on Twitter they can't see your posts any more, if you do that here it means you can't see their replies to you but they can still see your stuff, so they could potentially be sharing it, screencapping it
(DIR) Post #AkSSknhim8nzMvKQRU by afewbugs@social.coop
2024-07-30T13:49:19Z
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@lionelb @futurebird and recruiting more people from unblocked accounts and instances to harass you
(DIR) Post #AkSSkovEFPCj96ej8S by afewbugs@social.coop
2024-07-30T13:51:07Z
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@lionelb @futurebird and that's before you get into what is a feel a bit of a smug culture here that because we made our own alternative social network we must be smarter and it must be better, so anyone who points out a problem with it is sort of by default assumed to be at least unenlightened or at best not understanding it
(DIR) Post #AkSSkqIJ95G9OySfkO by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T13:52:48Z
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@afewbugs @lionelb Well we *are* very special. And I don't think I'll stop bragging about how my "social media experience" is generally lovely when my friends start with the old "isn't social media so terrible"They look at me like I have six legs.
(DIR) Post #AkSSlCRylo4G7L9hsO by ratcatcher@c.im
2024-07-30T13:53:01Z
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@futurebirdWhat's HRC? So far I found Habitual Residence Conditionand Holy Rosary College. Assuming it's not the latter.
(DIR) Post #AkSSnOsFY9tHECUbho by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T13:53:55Z
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@ratcatcher Hillary Rodham Clinton
(DIR) Post #AkST0rdZv5IUCV3BGS by ratcatcher@c.im
2024-07-30T13:56:18Z
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@futurebirdAh. Thanks.Do keep in mind that your non-US audience may not be familiar with some of the initialisations but may still be interested in reading what you have to say.
(DIR) Post #AkSTFJaimhOox6bYCu by mansr@society.oftrolls.com
2024-07-30T13:58:50Z
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@futurebird @drakenblackknight @acdha I'd rather have someone who "falls short" than someone who has promised to build concentration camps.
(DIR) Post #AkSTKJ2OGq8OgOvVjc by faassen@fosstodon.org
2024-07-30T13:59:51Z
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@futurebirdMany conspiracy theories are nothing more than vague notions and memes. That's why they work. I have seen a few come by in the wake of the assassination attempt. Absorb a lot of those and a worldview starts to coalesce and it's harder to distinguish fact from fiction.Qanon isn't particularly coherent either.
(DIR) Post #AkSTXlnidlXbehU5IG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T14:02:15Z
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@mansr @drakenblackknight @acdha This ought to be obvious. But if you spend your time surrounded by people saying stuff about how terrible Biden or Harris or whoever is (and without valid reasoning or evidence!) but that's most of what you hear your perspective can be shifted. Maybe not enough to change how you vote, but to change how much you care. So maybe you forget to remind your cousin to vote. Or you don't push back when someone pipes up.
(DIR) Post #AkSUA7PqizPhhIbbEm by faassen@fosstodon.org
2024-07-30T14:09:11Z
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@futurebird@samiamsam @CharlotteEowyn The first defense against getting tricked is to know you can get tricked. You see this with victims of romance scams a lot: many of them say "I am very smart, I have great people sense, I can't get tricked by that"
(DIR) Post #AkSUF2PMlrFjc7j1KS by artemis@dice.camp
2024-07-30T14:09:59Z
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@futurebird I have been struggling to figure out how to communicate about Harris and her campaign because—whether the rhetoric is coming from right wing agitators or not—I'm seeing a lot of stuff that seems to be trying to dampen people's enthusiasm in a potentially dangerous way.I'm not naive. I don't imagine politicians to be heroes, or even "on our side," but succumbing to this negative narrative looks very dangerous. So what do we do?
(DIR) Post #AkSUf4lUd9xkS8UTtg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T14:14:41Z
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@artemis We only win with a big tent: liberals, leftists and even some slightly conservative people together behind the idea that our decisions SHOULD matter. The right person to lead this couldn't be a leftist. Harris is a normal Democrat and has the energy to do this. I'm not going to act like it's doesn't matter if we can have a woman be our president for once. I think that is something we ought to be able to show young people is possible.
(DIR) Post #AkSV23yBklpOeAOF1c by caitp@mstdn.social
2024-07-30T14:16:02Z
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@futurebird that's an interesting read of the impact of this stuff. I don't think you're wrong necessarily, but I wonder if some degree of this is also rooted in the DNC just being kind of inept at marketing themselves? I feel like people have been talking about this pattern of behaviour for my entire life, and Obama was pretty much the one exception where people were excited to vote for them. Is that an accurate read?
(DIR) Post #AkSX0aSeBFbOkJ3p5c by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T14:41:05Z
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@noricenolife @artemis This happens nearly all of the time. I don't really look at voting as saying I'm going to follow someone around for life.It's always a strategic tradeoff. Often an ugly one.
(DIR) Post #AkSX83nDWYA9kBFHvs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T14:42:27Z
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@noricenolife @artemis The idea of living through a revolution in this country full of guns and crazy right wingers who think "The Turner Diaries" are a how to book scares me to death.
(DIR) Post #AkSXZSk6rwC2wXrITA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T14:47:19Z
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@noricenolife @artemis I used to have a gun before I lived in NYC. I don't know if I'd call that a "solution"
(DIR) Post #AkSY2rHmhHjLSbcuum by cwicseolfor@urbanists.social
2024-07-30T14:52:40Z
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@futurebird @CharlotteEowyn Tumblr was pretty memorable for this - not until March 2018 did they purge the Russian IRA plants posing mostly as young Black Americans, and predominately trying to entrench the idea that voting at all was an act of legitimizing the system. For three years, no action was taken, and the effect still lingers. I see more messages discouraging people from voting there than anywhere else.
(DIR) Post #AkSapRbbAHKfubBpKa by jztusk@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T15:23:47Z
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@futurebird @noricenolife @artemis Uh, I hate to be unkind, but you might be falling for a different flavor of the same problem in this exchange.Right-wing trolls emulate the language of disaffected left wing extremists because the problems DLWEs complain about are real issues with US society that hurt people. The problem is that DLWEs are firmly committed to never taking real steps to incrementally fix. They are all in on despair. (cont'd)
(DIR) Post #AkSeMSQ5SRWpr9Es7s by NireBryce@hachyderm.io
2024-07-30T16:01:35Z
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@futurebird @afewbugs @lionelb just to add some context: I think a lot of people don't know you can set visiblity away from 'federate everywhere', and if you're on mastodon.social that causes a whole lot of randos to jump in, more than twitter ime, for basically any topic. But smaller instances? less bad.but it's so opaque to newcomers that I don't blame them for thinking it
(DIR) Post #AkSf4Sb4A1Ez9BM9yq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T16:11:23Z
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@ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs @Willow @artemis I don't think turning people off from voting makes them *more* likely to do other work though. I just don't buy that. The activists I know all vote and do GOTV, etc. on the side of other more impactful stuff. Some started with things like trying to get a more progressive congressional candidate and then realized how limiting that could be. But they didn't give it up they expanded to local organizing.
(DIR) Post #AkSfeWCaEaFUkl6BFo by dalias@hachyderm.io
2024-07-30T16:17:56Z
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@futurebird @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs @Willow @artemis This. I'm not going to block (but I'll probably 3-day mute so I don't do something I regret) someone who has a difference of opinion on this, as long as they're also doing things that are valuable and productive towards our shared goals/values just doing it in their own way.But if someone claims to share my values but is doing nothing but trying to tear down what others are doing and demotivate others? BLOCK! & search for something to report
(DIR) Post #AkShV6KhFHoLp7WyBM by atlgaytheist@theatl.social
2024-07-30T16:38:35Z
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@futurebird I had similar experiences in 2016 and 2020 early in the primaries. I'd see just a ton of issues being raised in liberal circles on social media about Clinton and Biden. But once I had time to sit down and look for source material on the claims, like videos, bills, old articles, etc., it all just went up in smoke. There are plenty of areas where I'd go "I don't agree with that action", but all the major claims were just disinformation. Same type stuff currently being pedaled again about Harris' record over the years 🤷
(DIR) Post #AkSlAdjyF1A1AeqqcS by lufthans@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T17:19:03Z
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@futurebird yeah, low cost for them to take up your time, especially on a platform that makes money from such interactionsif they can trick you into burning X hours a week on research, then that's time you lose for campaigning or doing anything useful
(DIR) Post #AkSmPhmfacK80erTBA by KAOS@dragonscave.space
2024-07-30T17:33:41Z
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@futurebird Thank you for talking openly about it! This is important.
(DIR) Post #AkSmUrXqj4bhjMO9VQ by maxoakland@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T17:33:54Z
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@futurebird How did yoou find out they were faking it?
(DIR) Post #AkSmbHVp5pTG0KV9bU by lufthans@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T17:35:44Z
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@futurebird @CharlotteEowyn many had the time because they were getting paid to do itTurning Point doesn't just threaten college professors with violence, they were also paying high school kids as misinformation agents onlinehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point_USAThat's even without getting to Russian Agents or Cambridge AnalyticaFacebook was also providing free consulting on how to micro-target people
(DIR) Post #AkSrHQILEIR5DpXtaa by Pagan_Animist@beekeeping.ninja
2024-07-30T18:27:58Z
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@futurebird @drakenblackknight @acdha Exactly.I *am*hearing and seeing, “but she’s a cop.”I’ve heard it from my son, who isn’t under the influence of anyone but himself. ACAB.I’ve also seen it here and never really thought about it.Hmmm.
(DIR) Post #AkSuKGwCm70mvuF3Ca by QuietLurker@mastodon.social
2024-07-30T19:01:37Z
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@futurebird They are very effective at framing support for dems as “uncool” or a betrayal of values. Challenging people’s bonafides, street cred, or values automatically puts people on the defensive, forcing them to spend time, energy, (and characters) on trying to justify their rationales and ad caveats to arguments to mitigate the impending retorts. Using kernels of truth is an effective tactic in manipulation.
(DIR) Post #AkSyzMfclXsMOyKtpg by astroPug@hachyderm.io
2024-07-30T19:54:34Z
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@futurebird @mansr @drakenblackknight @acdha Thank you for putting into words what I feel I’ve struggled to explain to many in my circle.I don’t want it to happen again.The propaganda worked well, it got me, too. I also voted for Clinton but amplified the criticisms, and that hamstrung my ability to convince someone outside of my family/friends to vote for her. I think I will show this thread to my circle.
(DIR) Post #AkT5PAr5upy50pOJvs by VictorLange@mastodon.bits-und-baeume.org
2024-07-30T21:06:23Z
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@futurebirdI make the same observations as you but come to a different conclusion; it made me aware of the importance that voting is not enough but an alternative to this broken system must be built@mansr @drakenblackknight @acdha
(DIR) Post #AkTJCJfbEMjdwamHOi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-30T23:41:04Z
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@alienghic> One thing I remember from the election interference reports was how Russia had agents trying to egg angry factions into being more angry.> They'd have agents pretending to be Black Lives Matter pushing the most angry takes possible while also trying to get whites to be as afraid of black people as possible.This!If anyone is trying to escalate partisan tensions, especially during election campaigns, be *very* suspicious. Chances are they're shills or Useful Idiots.@futurebird
(DIR) Post #AkTs6OfREar46LcCWm by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T06:12:10Z
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@futurebird Thanks to the US being a two-party system, dampening enthusiasm for Democrats is an excellent tool for the right. I watched a friend get manipulated into becoming completely anti-Democrat (to such an extent if you heard them speaking you'd think they were a born Republican) with crap like the claims Hillary was having people assassinatedAnd thus Trump won and we watched him do every single thing that person hatedThey learned nothing
(DIR) Post #AkTt8T4xu1MoJk6flg by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T06:14:15Z
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@futurebird In case it's not obvious, that person voted third party. And has continued to rant and rave about Democrats even while we all watched Trump do horrible things. They doubled down and learned nothing. This is something that many on the right and even hostile foreign powers have been trying to make happen for a long time.I'm not saying Democrats are perfect. But voting them out won't fix what happens when Republicans win.
(DIR) Post #AkTt8TXgBGKrknXbWa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T06:23:45Z
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@nazokiyoubinbou I do not get not using a vote to determine a win when there is a big enough difference in the leading two candidates that it makes a material difference. Only if the leading candidates are ... kinda of the same does it make much sense?I do understand that it's ideological for some people and OK that's fine. But why should a system you don't really buy into matter to your sense of self like that? Anyway that's all I'll say.
(DIR) Post #AkTtIVgj3b9ZIyYbyq by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T06:25:31Z
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@futurebird I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean like the rankings some countries do? (I forgot the exact term.)
(DIR) Post #AkTtTrUgK9p87UKvwm by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-31T06:27:28Z
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@nazokiyoubinbou No I'm just saying that I think third parties make more sense when you push them in smaller local races where there is a chance of a win. Just voting to object in a national election seems ineffective.
(DIR) Post #AkTtZ9CxtGXmVWZPs0 by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T06:28:34Z
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@futurebird Oh yeah, they don't work as a presidential candidate for various reasons, but independents can make it at other levels.Really they should be able to at all levels. A two-party system is stupid and it hurts *everyone* (except the politicians within those parties of course.)