Post Ak9dSZcJotFxxT4eS8 by Emilyy@mas.to
(DIR) More posts by Emilyy@mas.to
(DIR) Post #Ak9ZplFMLbAws38VaS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-21T11:13:16Z
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The way that people react to having a trans family member varies wildly. Some reactions are so disproportionate and irrational I wonder if there ought to be an entry in those big books of mental disorders for loosing your damn mind because your kid or sibling is trans. (probably not, I think too many things are medicalized as it is)And it's not just about religion, there are other factors. 1/
(DIR) Post #Ak9aUmITLbfi079Ozo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-21T11:20:40Z
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Why do some people totally melt down when other people wont continue to conform to their gender expectations?Is it upsetting that such things are anchored for eternity as maybe they imagined? Is it the pain and trauma of trying to conform to their own gender turned outward?(I'm not suggesting they are closeted, just that many cis people have "gender trauma" since the way gender is enforced can be pretty horrible for everyone involved.) 2/
(DIR) Post #Ak9aYaV39PxYZSqmMi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-21T11:21:21Z
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Or it could just be an inability to control the actions of others. No need to overcomplicate it. 3/3
(DIR) Post #Ak9ai0Z9bgFG1JGIqG by petealexharris@mastodon.scot
2024-07-21T11:23:03Z
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@futurebird By rights it shouldn't *even* be about religion, because Jesus never mentioned gender as far as I know.He did say how you treat socially marginalised people is morally equivalent to treating him the same way, so there is that.
(DIR) Post #Ak9avRho0v7TxMiTTc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-21T11:25:29Z
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@petealexharris I've given up on what passes for Christianity in the USA making any sense at all. It has little to do with the values of Jesus, or the stuff in the Bible. It has everything to do with an imagined benchmark of "Normalcy" from a time that never really existed in our past when men were men and women were miserable.
(DIR) Post #Ak9bCeGkYWTDqRGQwS by martin_piper@mastodon.social
2024-07-21T11:28:32Z
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@futurebird transphobia and homophobia should be classified as a mental disorder. So that they can get the treatment they need.
(DIR) Post #Ak9bYKVmh74swGdPyC by viq@social.hackerspace.pl
2024-07-21T11:32:29Z
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@futurebird when someone I know was transitioning, ages ago, I think it was a combination of rigid portrayal of gender roles I grew up with, and I guess tied to it reproduction assumptions ("but they started as that one! And now they technically won't be either!")[1/n]
(DIR) Post #Ak9bax941iktL0G4ga by orangelantern@froggie.gay
2024-07-21T11:25:28.993Z
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@futurebird@sauropods.win It could be all of the above.I‘d really like to know myself. It does seem like mental illness, though. I always say we’re sending the wrong people to therapy.
(DIR) Post #Ak9bayNHSLin9NuwU4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-21T11:32:37Z
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@orangelantern I have a trans family member. There is an adjustment that I needed to go though, because I guess there are categories we have and they can be gendered. Part of me doubted it was "real" for a month, but I could recognize this was a selfish thought So said nothing. And after more time it was obvious that I was incorrect.All of the "struggle" of accepting this information was due to MY OWN gender bullshit. That seemed really obvious to me.
(DIR) Post #Ak9cOxdkSdGXLsSLtw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-21T11:41:58Z
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@goaty Could they think their ability to "raise a man" says something about how much of a man they are?That's messed up, but I can see it.
(DIR) Post #Ak9dQxx6N4Skqy1pxo by StarkRG@myside-yourside.net
2024-07-21T11:53:34Z
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@futurebird Gender trauma is probably a big part of it. Also, some people come to accept their very narrow perspective as the one true reality and trans people disrupt that and people don't react well to having their grasp on reality shaken even if what they're grasping onto isn't reality.
(DIR) Post #Ak9dSZcJotFxxT4eS8 by Emilyy@mas.to
2024-07-21T11:53:50Z
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@futurebird @orangelantern I think the gender training we all received started so, so early that it's really foundational to the way a lot of people have constructed their lives. When you pull that out to revise, a lot of other things shake.Definitely an internal issue, but dangerous. Lot of potential lashing out when you come for someone's worldview.
(DIR) Post #Ak9fsuhaFUqKn0DyEq by jpaskaruk@growers.social
2024-07-21T12:20:48Z
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@futurebird I love this thread full of a bunch of us basically saying the same thing: we took some time before we came around to being comfortable with it.And there truly is nothing wrong with having an emotion that results from a loved one doing something we totally didn't expect; the question is, do you keep your cool and go think, which usually will lead to some variation on "be happy my beautiful friend",or do you be shitty, at first or forever.
(DIR) Post #Ak9gfsZOxqEiMnkIzI by AdamDavis@mastodon.social
2024-07-21T12:29:52Z
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@futurebird @goatyAs an older man with kids (daughters only) I think you're right. I know men who didn't want their sons to play with kitchen toys. As for myself, I have worried at times about not raising my daughters "right" (when it comes to things like social anxiety, confidence, money management, etc). As a parent it's difficult to not pass your own neuroses on to your children. And that is messed up.
(DIR) Post #Ak9hDI7iyfF9AyjSVs by sabik@rants.au
2024-07-21T12:35:53Z
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@futurebird @petealexharris More Paul than Jesus?
(DIR) Post #Ak9i4dV8E7vcpE7Lcm by Tattie@eldritch.cafe
2024-07-21T12:45:34Z
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@futurebird sometimes also a mother or father can sink a lot of effort into trying to force a child to conform to norms associated with their assigned gender. When the child eventually comes out as trans, there's a combination of sunk cost fallacy and the realisation that, in hindsight, maybe they didn't treat said child very well.@goaty
(DIR) Post #Ak9jM6e1E3Zg5ZAW12 by lambic@social.linux.pizza
2024-07-21T12:59:51Z
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@futurebird I visited family in the UK earlier this year and had varying reactions to explaining that my child is non binary. My mother and others in her generation just had a really hard time understanding it which I totally understand because she's in her 70s. My cousin, who is a bit younger than me, reacted forcefully, yelling that there are only two genders, which just felt like naked bigotry for absolutely no reason.Other people of my generation or younger were much more accepting which I was grateful for.
(DIR) Post #Ak9ouEmDzncGvZ6KzA by dan613@ottawa.place
2024-07-21T14:02:06Z
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@futurebird There's probably research on this, and it probably has something to do with gender non-conformity being seen as an attack on patriarchy. That's literally why male-male sex was forbidden in the Bible. A man should never be in the submissive role since they are supposed to be the "naturally" dominant gender. Conversely a "woman" should never appear manly because that is "obviously" an effort to usurp men's dominance. (Sorry for the "irony" quotes)But anger over non-conformity could also be tied to beauty standards. If everyone is trying to be masculine or feminine appearing, non-conformity says that the social norms are irrelevant and those efforts to conform are wasted.
(DIR) Post #Ak9pj5Gh6kquCpbB5M by IzabelaKaramia@writing.exchange
2024-07-21T14:11:04Z
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@futurebird We all get raised in a cultural environment of gender bullshit that has been dictated by a patriarchal hierarchy. It starts being imposed upon us from the moment we're born, maybe even prior to that when you consider how people will throw gender reveal parties based off of ultrasound results for the fetus taking on its physical shape in the womb. Gender norms are often enforced in cruel ways and can be enforced with physical violence or threats.
(DIR) Post #Ak9rjfKfDrUdxsrPdI by queenofnewyork@newsie.social
2024-07-21T14:33:49Z
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@futurebird Could be. In white US culture there are so many rules about gender performance that can be met with anything from derision to violence for breaking them. Whether someone has suppressed part of themselves or suppressed others through bad acts, there’s a lot of pent up emotions that can be triggered by someone refusing to accept those rules. But as with any cycle of abuse, people need to realize thjs and stop themselves.
(DIR) Post #Ak9yohMbnShFON7JkO by Laplantgenetics@spore.social
2024-07-21T15:53:05Z
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@futurebird I don't think it relates specifically to trans people at all. Please see reactions to cis male hippies/metal fans with long hair, or historical reenactors with period appropriate hair, etc. Long hair is perceived as feminine, even when the person with long hair has a beard and otherwise presents as their gender.These same people will scream at kids/adults that real men can't have hair touching their ears or the back of their neck.😬
(DIR) Post #AkAAgkgKm6zeogJwie by dct@mastodon.online
2024-07-21T18:06:11Z
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@futurebird I was raised in a fairly conservative, patriarchal environment. I recall my Dad talking about how important my role as the oldest son was and relating it to the law of Moses etc. I can only imagine that spending more than a decade doing your utmost to raise a strong, capable, worthy successor and then having that person say "I am not even male" would feel like the ultimate rug pull - especially living in a shame based ideological framework.
(DIR) Post #AkARG8zE08LDb93SfA by paninid@mastodon.world
2024-07-21T21:11:50Z
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@futurebird The lack of control over •anything or anybody• is the trigger for suboptimal cis reactions.
(DIR) Post #AkAWJjyRRHPAx5DsJ6 by Gorfram@beige.party
2024-07-21T22:08:31Z
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@futurebird The first transperson I knew, it was because she had been a very good friend of my mom's pre-transition. They had been the rare type of male-presenting person would would be there when you needed him, with useful answers and meaningful help. They were also one of the few friends who chose my mom when my parents went though a nasty divorce & all the family friends were forced to pick a side.But, then, after having been elsewhere for a while, Miriam returned and [Deadname] was gone. And Mom *could not handle it*. I was surprised, because she'd handled the 1970's post-Stonewall evolution of gay culture pretty well, going form explaining to little-kid-me that Elton John & Liberace "just liked to be flamboyant" to a staunch "I don't care who they want to have sex with: they're a human person just like any other."But Mom seemed to find Miriam a conundrum in the form of a person, one Mom could not even begin to address. I don't think Mom was actively rude to Miriam, but she did avoid her with a force tantamount to shunning. (18-yo me tried to step up a little and be extra kind & friendly towards Miriam; but, in the end, I couldn't be the friend Miriam had lost.)I think Mom's reaction was partly based on having learned the values that go with being raised on a Depression-era farm in Kansas; although she'd previously been quite capable at setting many of those values aside in favor of peace and human decency.But OP's suggestion of gender trauma strikes chord. All her life, Mom had been taking so much so much on the chin just for being a woman. But now, Miriam was here, living the idea that the sad immutable fate of being the gender you were assigned was not immutable after all.And even more, Miriam had *resigned male privilege.* That precious gift, that men had & would lord over her all her life, and that Mom could getting no closer too than marrying a man & giving birth to a son, Miriam had (seemingly, to Mom) kicked away an old soccer ball at the end of the game.*[*Okay, my own gender trauma is showing some here. My apologies for putting some of this clumsily, & betraying my limited insight into trans issues.] So, yeah. If cis people were truly able to cope with the way the world treats them because of their cis gender, they maybe wouldn't be such generous contributors to the way the world trans trans people because of their trans gender.