Post AjoLE4q2Zzn0K11aIC by gsuberland@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by gsuberland@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #AjoK39txJZccsx5NDs by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:05:16Z
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You know the "one dimensional thinking" trope, where people run directly away from falling/rolling objects, rather than run a small distance to the side?I just saw a letsplayer do that in a space game! With full 3D movement! In deep space, they realize they've over-accelerated, and are heading towards a small satellite 13km away at 500m/s. They go "oh no, I'm going to crash into it again!" and slam on the retrorockets. To slow down.
(DIR) Post #AjoKLnDNt4Ra1g3hMO by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:08:25Z
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Their ship is maybe 5 meters across if we're generous. The target space probe? 2, maybe 3 meters across.And it's THIRTEEN KILOMETERS AWAY.They just need to avoid a collision! So thrusting enough to move a few meters laterally (over the 26 seconds before you hit it) would save them, and the probe.But nope. Hit the retros.
(DIR) Post #AjoKLppOAk2487r4sK by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:09:38Z
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It's just funny to see that humans are still susceptible to the one-dimensional-thinking fallacy even when they're navigating in a full 3D space where they can move in any direction.
(DIR) Post #AjoKYtZ5aaHXU8SUvQ by gsuberland@chaos.social
2024-07-11T05:12:26Z
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@foone this is where KSP has spoiled me, by making me pay attention to delta-V numbers. "I could alter my velocity relative to this object by 800m/s, or I could expend 20m/s of dV to alter my approach angle by 2 degrees for the same result".
(DIR) Post #AjoKflwYKAAjsGiFdo by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:12:30Z
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This sort of logic is why it's important to detect dangerous asteroids early. If a second Chicxulub is on the way but we spot it out by the orbit of Neptune, we don't need to "stop" it, we just need to push it a couple thousand kilometers laterally so it misses the earth. The farther out we spot it, the less we need to push for it to miss.
(DIR) Post #AjoKlNn12ZJqhSvY5g by cabbey@phpc.social
2024-07-11T05:14:00Z
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@foone hit the retros AND the probe I assume.
(DIR) Post #AjoKpIlJfrLWGZ07g8 by danak6jq@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T05:14:26Z
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@foone I remember well Spock counseling Kirk that Khan was a 2-dimensional thinker (Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan)
(DIR) Post #AjoKvLNsq2Q88TvCiW by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:15:14Z
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@gsuberland this game hands you a torchship with infinite fuel, so it probably is inadvertently training users away from that kind of orbital mechanics knowledge. When you can just single-stage-to-orbit from one planet to another in 30 seconds, you don't need to even think about how to make the most of your deltaV budget.
(DIR) Post #AjoL1VwUUp54cR3Eh6 by Infoseepage@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T05:15:46Z
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@foone You get it in Prometheus in the scene where Charlize Theron's character gets crushed to death by the rolling Alien spacecraft. I remembered watching it in theaters and going "just run to the side, idiots." I mean, you have these two ostensibly very smart women and they can't figure this out?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRxvp4sfhMo
(DIR) Post #AjoLE4q2Zzn0K11aIC by gsuberland@chaos.social
2024-07-11T05:17:36Z
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@foone ah, we're in full "ballistic trajectory goes brrrrt" territory then.
(DIR) Post #AjoLJtoQUFzvrY2tOa by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:17:49Z
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@Infoseepage yeah, the TV Tropes article has the alternate name "The Prometheus School Of Running Away From Things"
(DIR) Post #AjoLU36EoOzDYwDUzA by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:22:38Z
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@gsuberland the funny thing? This game (Outer Wilds, btw) has a very realistic gravity simulation, so it realistically models orbits for planets and spaceships and everything works with reasonable mechanics, so you absolutely can do all sorts of maneuvers to get from planet to planet with minimum thrust!It's just that no one would ever bother with all that! cause they gave you a ship with infinite fuel and enough thrust that you really should be leaving craters in all the planets!
(DIR) Post #AjoLbdclPeGmrv36w4 by BashStKid@mastodon.online
2024-07-11T05:24:19Z
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@foone Unfortunately that may be a metaphor for our inability to react minimally but successfully early on. No, let’s wait until the last moment and flail around.
(DIR) Post #AjoLtOn7IfkK4rMQQi by gsuberland@chaos.social
2024-07-11T05:26:36Z
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@foone I went digging through the modding stuff and it looks like there is a resource management mod, but nothing to make the rocketry more realistic.did stumble across this though, which looks cool: https://outerwildsmods.com/mods/trajectoryprediction/
(DIR) Post #AjoMB3sHo3VkPzCW0m by foone@digipres.club
2024-07-11T05:28:06Z
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@gsuberland yeah, for game spoiler reasons you are on a strict time limit which would make realistic rockets impossible.
(DIR) Post #AjoNjsflXxNDlWVmQC by brouhaha@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T05:47:58Z
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@foone @gsuberland They should offer a higher skill level setting that gives the player finite fuel and thrust. I suspect that most players would give up on that fairly quickly, like the high skill setting on the Atari coin-op helicopter game that had realistic flight dynamics.
(DIR) Post #AjoO3hDZqQ4k1zm7c0 by asharas@piaille.fr
2024-07-11T05:51:47Z
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@foone @gsuberland Graham, if you haven't played Outer Wilds I highly recommend you stop digging about it and go purchase it ;)It trully is a unique experience!
(DIR) Post #AjoRvKMTL9xadvCVe4 by dotstdy@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T06:34:17Z
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@foone don't worry, bruce willis is ready
(DIR) Post #AjoS91AnTk59BZGfom by hittitezombie@mastodon.me.uk
2024-07-11T06:37:31Z
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@foone "in deep space"... If in LOE, retros could be enough to lower the orbit enough to miss.Reminds me of the anectode where early astronauts kept using the vehicle like an aircraft, and couldn't understand why hitting the rockets to speed up to catch an object wasn't working. Speeding up would increase the distance (orbit would go higher), slowing down would let them close it (orbit would be smaller, angular velocity would get higher, letting them catch up with the higher & slower object)
(DIR) Post #AjoYnGRAkItJpoV9Jw by tess@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T07:51:52Z
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@foone I've played enough Elden Ring to know you dodge sideways 😛
(DIR) Post #AjoZguOdscnTh1qqMC by gnarf@hachyderm.io
2024-07-11T08:01:59Z
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@foone What scares me is that we're pretty much blind for asteroids coming from the bright sight, i.e. bodies that are hidden by the sun's light. Our telescopes only work throughout the night, so we can't see half the solar system. And the dangerous asteroids come from far outside and have their periapsis on earth, so when they become visible they are fast as heck (= hard to extrapolate trajectory & hard to deflect)
(DIR) Post #AjogJqkBzccJNrsoBE by baishen@mastodon.online
2024-07-11T09:16:05Z
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@foone Happens all the time in the real world. People slam on their brakes when steering or sometimes acceleration would prevent a collision.
(DIR) Post #AjouZAJAw00LlORXUm by nyrath@spacey.space
2024-07-11T11:56:41Z
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@foone Agreed.Some astronomer noted that a dangerous asteroid is trivialy easy to deflect from impacting Earth ... IF you spot it twenty years in advance.Spotting it a few hours in advance means it is too late.
(DIR) Post #AjovKoLRtf2RXsE49o by michael_w_busch@mastodon.online
2024-07-11T12:05:17Z
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@nyrath @foone This is why we try to predict potential impacts centuries out whenever possible.
(DIR) Post #AjovfVLpi6gKibGzNg by thematic@mastodon.green
2024-07-11T12:07:40Z
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@foone Yes, 500 m/s is a huge deal, except in most video games. Chemical propellant+oxidizer == much mass (fraction).
(DIR) Post #Ajovuj1FAx7XS6tsLg by nyrath@spacey.space
2024-07-11T12:11:48Z
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@michael_w_busch @foone IIRC the quote was from someone advocating increased funding for asteroid tracking.
(DIR) Post #Ajp7fYSxKPc1pSOYZU by andrewhinton@jawns.club
2024-07-11T14:21:47Z
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@foone @nyrath really sharpens the meaning of “lateral thinking”
(DIR) Post #AjpCy354k1E1lKrZUu by alexch@ruby.social
2024-07-11T15:21:34Z
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@foone whereas well-trained starship captains know how to play 3D chess
(DIR) Post #AjpOAmAM2ZfeYvbUG0 by althearose@digipres.club
2024-07-11T17:23:28Z
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@foone and here we thought being hare-brained was an insult. Dodge and weave might just save your life (and your crew's)