Post Ajj0OmLQbrPrK2ATMe by anantagd@ieji.de
(DIR) More posts by anantagd@ieji.de
(DIR) Post #AjikAfbZGwof6Ay3e4 by protonprivacy@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T12:31:54Z
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ChatGPT and other #AI tools are generally horrible for privacy.At the same time, they are being used by over a billion people due to their productivity benefits. From that perspective, AI is inevitable, so the real question becomes: Is it possible to build AI in a #privacy-first way?Here's a look at how it could be done: https://proton.me/blog/how-to-build-privacy-first-ai
(DIR) Post #AjikR32buAXiPyQUDI by miladjavadi@khiar.net
2024-07-08T12:34:22Z
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@protonprivacyDoes that mean chat gpt is insecure?
(DIR) Post #AjikoO1w2AmiAuEsYS by protonprivacy@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T12:38:12Z
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@miladjavadi You can see our analysis of it here: https://proton.me/blog/privacy-and-chatgpt
(DIR) Post #AjikpEYgjdsj5XxlpI by radicalrobit@laserdisc.party
2024-07-08T12:38:25Z
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@protonprivacy "productivity benefits" lmfao
(DIR) Post #Ajil6HlK4p2Twp0Hlg by au0@mastodon.0011.lt
2024-07-08T12:41:43Z
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@protonprivacy please make sure there is a disable button for AI once you introduce it 😅
(DIR) Post #Ajil73PKvryNiX5PA8 by geojulien@mapstodon.space
2024-07-08T12:41:49Z
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@protonprivacy on my side, I can't see the image below "Model openess" section: https://pme.protonblog.tech/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/model-openness-2-1024x490.png
(DIR) Post #AjilMU6dwyeWrghUOG by wendigo@metalhead.club
2024-07-08T12:45:06Z
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@protonprivacy I think their productivity benefits are somewhat in question.
(DIR) Post #AjimRIur59vBYs34i0 by foolishowl@social.coop
2024-07-08T12:57:19Z
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@protonprivacy It's not a productivity tool, it's a material and cultural disaster. It's not inevitable. Just don't build it.I've gone to a lot of effort to move my email from Google to Proton, because I'm trying to resist this push for LLMs everywhere. If Proton deploys an LLM, I'll cancel my account.
(DIR) Post #AjimanPh3xy6kn00PY by KellyandRoger@kinky.business
2024-07-08T12:59:03Z
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@protonprivacy why do I get the feeling there is some propaganda being disseminated here. ChatGPT is entirely based on stolen data. If it comes to Proton I will happily move to another platform, regardless of the 'productivity benefits'.
(DIR) Post #Ajimv4eMgfak0IWyIK by leberschnitzel@existiert.ch
2024-07-08T13:02:40Z
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@protonprivacy please don't
(DIR) Post #Ajio1GkEjSUZCrnMRM by protonprivacy@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T13:14:56Z
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@geojulien Thanks for the report, we're fixing it!
(DIR) Post #AjioDGjab42ueJDLiy by zdl@mastodon.online
2024-07-08T13:17:06Z
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@protonprivacy If your work is the kind that can be done by Degenerative AI, "productivity" is the literal, direct opposite of what you're doing.
(DIR) Post #AjioEhLD9uQbSTUdaC by tsrono@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T13:17:19Z
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@protonprivacy AI tools in every piece of software is not inevitable, it’s a choice. y’all should seriously reconsider the choice you’re making to pursue it.
(DIR) Post #AjioGiQs4YEDQE6QG8 by karadoc@aus.social
2024-07-08T13:17:33Z
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@protonprivacy I wouldn't expect any AI-focused company to move to homomorphic computing. They can profit from personal data - and so they're unlikely to spend extra resources to prevent themselves collecting it. And from the users' side, if told "it's encrypted"; it's still difficult to know who can and cannot decrypt it anyway. The whole thing is complex and opaque.So I'd say that local computation is the only near-term solution for that kind of privacy.And for the *other* privacy problem, we seem to have no solution at all. i.e. The problem of personal data being used for training regardless of the source or the person's wishes. Leading to things like this:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/07/ai-trains-on-kids-photos-even-when-parents-use-strict-privacy-settings/
(DIR) Post #AjioMVbafz79NQsYJE by menito@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T13:18:53Z
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@protonprivacy please don't include it in the Proton suite
(DIR) Post #AjioPpwdVkLnKMJGiG by enthusiast101@fosstodon.org
2024-07-08T13:19:29Z
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@protonprivacy I honestly think AI models should only be run locally. Many smaller models like the 7b variants can be run on cpu with 8gb of ram. These models may hallucinate information more often, but they are more than good enough for a lot of "productivity" tasks like writing emails, summarizing pages, etcWith ollama and the page assist browser extension, I would argue many devices used today can run decent LLMs locally (especially given CPUs tend to be overspecced for how they are used).
(DIR) Post #AjiqCqtmqupUQiugN6 by TheDailyBurble@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T13:39:32Z
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@protonprivacy What productivity benefits. It doesn't iterate, you have to double check it, and you're liable if it makes a stupid mistake. It wastes a lot of time.
(DIR) Post #AjirM2H61gbOGwl6si by jamespthomas@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T13:52:22Z
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@protonprivacy i must produce for myself before i produce for the greater ai,for that,i require privacy
(DIR) Post #AjirxWJFJxCa8bddsu by MonKaiju@todon.nl
2024-07-08T13:58:59Z
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@protonprivacy Oh wow,.the 'inevitability' falsehood coming from y'all is really disappointing...I guess its an opportunity to switch to a provider with less bloat though, I just want email from my email provider, literally nothing else
(DIR) Post #Ajis9PdxvigiwI0608 by rothko@beige.party
2024-07-08T14:01:03Z
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@protonprivacy just no. don't go there. you risk losing all your credibility by making that move. people who are seriously interested in maintaining their privacy are generally people who are uninterested in AI, not happy to see so much investment in the concept, and/or downright hostile towards it. proton is honestly the LAST place i would have expected to get involved in the AI disaster -- i don't care how brilliant your "local AI" might be (honestly i don't understand it entirely and not interested in the technical detail), it's still just jumping on the bandwagon that has so far proven itself to be headed downhill to disaster.
(DIR) Post #AjitkQJKVorrg2Yndw by Chromino@mstdn.social
2024-07-08T14:18:28Z
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@protonprivacy The detriments FAR outway any benefits it may haveAI is NOT inevitable. Stop perpetuating something so dumb and dangerous. There's no ethically trained AI because none of them would work. That has bred irriversable widespread distrust for AI and rightfully so. Its destroying the creative industry, education, livelihoods, climate, the list goes onAI is anti-freedom and anti-privacy, both of which you say is needed for a better internet. Dont betray your users by implementing AI
(DIR) Post #Ajiu0a9NhGHSpLc0FU by vivianshadows@girlcock.club
2024-07-08T14:21:29Z
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@protonprivacy no.
(DIR) Post #AjixL8fPNH05X55P5U by hexaheximal@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T14:59:28Z
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@protonprivacy Please don't go down that route. The only thing which is "inevitable" is the Proton team once again focusing on building something new which nobody actually wants.Proton should focus on doing what they do best - email.I know someone who has used ProtonMail longer than I have, with a premium subscription, and *still* hasn't ever used the other Proton services.Adding LLMs into it is going to hurt more than it will help.
(DIR) Post #AjixNJyCJxFFARuocK by Traumkaempfer@sueden.social
2024-07-08T14:59:48Z
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@protonprivacy I was thinking of switching my accounts to Proton but I guess I can just start looking elsewhere already.
(DIR) Post #AjixjCpxWNxbPrUtfs by chicob@mstdn.social
2024-07-08T15:03:49Z
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@protonprivacyI sincerely hope Proton is not falling for the hype. Leaving productivity aside, even taking all the privacy guarantees for granted, LLMs remain environmentally unsustainable. I'm a farmer, and privacy is not the only value at stake.I have been a happy Proton customer. It took me some effort to bring my whole family to Proton, with a total of 7 accounts, 6 of which Plus accounts.I would leave Proton, and advise my family to do the same, should Proton move in that direction.
(DIR) Post #AjizvB9bnwdXZzWcgC by cthos@mastodon.cthos.dev
2024-07-08T15:28:22Z
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@protonprivacy hold up. You cite the 2024 survey as your customer base wanting LLMs but you asked “do you want proofreading, spelling, and grammar tools” and “do you use an LLM once a month”. Neither of those questions equate to “please shove an LLM into proton services. I will cancel immediately if you introduce an LLM (or diffusion model) to your products.
(DIR) Post #Ajj098BHeewcPfxfsm by chiraag@mastodon.online
2024-07-08T15:30:47Z
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@protonprivacy Please don't do this. If nothing else, it's clear a good chunk of that 28% may choose to leave if you dip into the GenAI space, and it's not worth it.Everyone talks about productivity gains, but I'm really not sure what those are when you have to double-check everything for falsehoods anyway. It's like having a secretary who doesn't know when they make stuff up - it's worse than useless...it ends up creating more work in the end.
(DIR) Post #Ajj0OmLQbrPrK2ATMe by anantagd@ieji.de
2024-07-08T15:33:44Z
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@protonprivacy I've been happily paying for proton's services for years now. But I'll leave if you shoehorn AI into your offerings. No matter how well intentioned you think your design impulse is.
(DIR) Post #Ajj1HntOYYLK39IGNE by ennenine@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T15:43:40Z
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@protonprivacy I choose Proton because I want to get AWAY from these things. I don't agree with Proton prioritizing this hype bubble, but you know your business. However, if you don't allow me to opt out, I will opt out of Proton entirely.
(DIR) Post #Ajj1PJgkjn7SgsxkMi by foolishowl@social.coop
2024-07-08T15:00:51Z
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@protonprivacy Frankly, this has me worried that the recently announced reorganization of Proton is the result of financing from one of the Silicon Valley billionaires that are obsessed with AGI.
(DIR) Post #Ajj1PLAvD6qVIk5M1o by protonprivacy@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T15:44:59Z
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@foolishowl No, nothing has changed in how Proton is financed.
(DIR) Post #Ajj1tFcgPyfOljKhhQ by ChaosPossumWitch@girlcock.club
2024-07-08T15:50:13Z
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@protonprivacy please no. I'm so sick of AI.
(DIR) Post #Ajj2QImng7Eu8SpDRQ by Coleyra@framapiaf.org
2024-07-08T15:56:24Z
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@protonprivacy We don't need AI, thanks.
(DIR) Post #Ajj6OhIBzd59NUzzDE by tsrono@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T16:40:59Z
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@protonprivacy @foolishowl yet. you stand the risk of losing many customers over this. i know i’ll be considering other services if/when y’all begin any of this.
(DIR) Post #Ajj7CrugmLmcnUvdzc by teknomagic@retro.pizza
2024-07-08T16:49:59Z
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@protonprivacy it's not inevitable, I'm avoiding it just fine.
(DIR) Post #Ajj8mIvyPNGcgqzTCC by Haste@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T17:07:16Z
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@protonprivacy thank god I use Fastmail
(DIR) Post #AjjAxuGCAdjdY66pOq by xgranade@wandering.shop
2024-07-08T17:31:49Z
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@protonprivacy Please, please don't do this. I love the email and SimpleLogin alias setup I have with you folks and would hate to lose that if you guys went in on the whole AI hype.
(DIR) Post #AjjBpYWrBPJVmvU68O by Qxkw@ieji.de
2024-07-08T17:41:44Z
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@protonprivacy Whats your opinion about more privacy focused frontends like AI Chat from DuckDuckGo?
(DIR) Post #AjjC1SGOIueJpZSMvg by quantumcog@fosstodon.org
2024-07-08T17:44:00Z
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@protonprivacy No AI, Please
(DIR) Post #AjjCSy0QOVYM656htY by ammdias@masto.pt
2024-07-08T17:48:54Z
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@protonprivacy Ok, so I read the (long) blog post and it is less scary as this Mastodon post seemed to imply. I don't think there will be an AI option in ProtonMail in the near future, so I'd rather not panic now.Anyway, I think Proton should really try to understand its demographics before including such an option in its products. Privacy conscious and AI lovers populations don't seem to overlap much, in my opinion. The replies to this post are an example of that.
(DIR) Post #AjjCl89vNqCYncDC1w by BrahmaBelarusian@todon.eu
2024-07-08T17:52:11Z
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@protonprivacy In preparation for you pushing this through over objections by your customers like me, I'll be looking to transfer my service to another provider, as the use of generative #AI is completely unacceptable to me.
(DIR) Post #AjjCpJWv35ULDvxiKW by thestrangelet@beige.party
2024-07-08T17:52:59Z
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@protonprivacy Generative AI is not inevitable. If you do choose to integrate Gen AI in your products, please make it opt-in only. Give your customers that care about the environment, art, music, and authenticity the option to continue to use your products.
(DIR) Post #AjjD7ATJSvMcLJmxto by thefrankring@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T17:56:11Z
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@protonprivacy i use GPT4ALL and Automatic1111 to run AI locally. You also get to choose your own models.
(DIR) Post #AjjECbwcqk5WwyeuYa by tsrono@mastodon.social
2024-07-08T18:08:03Z
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@protonprivacy maybe try this post again but just stop after the first sentence?
(DIR) Post #AjjERYUJz1FqZdXtdg by daniel@social.dhelonious.de
2024-07-08T18:11:02Z
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protonprivacy@mastodon.social Thanks for this interesting article. I agree that this is inevitable, and people would have to be very naive to think otherwise.Online services are easy to use and are already used by a large part of the world's population. This makes it even more important that we think about how to make the use of AI safe, ethical, private, and environmentally friendly. Otherwise, future AI will continue to be none of these things. Whether we like it or not, AI is here to stay.
(DIR) Post #AjjKCtTIHhXv2ASPQG by spyke@mastodon.online
2024-07-08T19:15:42Z
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@protonprivacy So, is matrix multiplication generally horrible for privacy? Or you are just trying to hype?
(DIR) Post #AjjKxMLRGa6Pu5wJf6 by JoeBecomeTheSun@social.vivaldi.net
2024-07-08T19:24:02Z
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@protonprivacy Uncensored, local and free as in freedom is the way to go. The GNU Affero GPL v3 or later with a clarification that Model weights count as source code is the perfect license for large language models.
(DIR) Post #Ajja23EPFuwnNvLToe by mrtn@mas.to
2024-07-08T22:13:02Z
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@protonprivacy Most people in this comment senction think there is no way AI is inevitable. I will disagree. Look, I get it, AI is shoved into our faces everywhere nowadays and it’s annoying.But let’s be real, do you guys REALLY believe that the world won’t be powered by AI before 2100?Not as a replacement for humans, but the only way we can all live on this earth with 10billion people without anyone starving, it’s to have our resources optimized as much as possible.
(DIR) Post #AjjjC9rENEIcQ2OpN2 by danhulton@hachyderm.io
2024-07-08T23:55:42Z
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@protonprivacy FFS. I was planning on upgrading to Unlimited and moving my mail over too, but you all have me considering moving away, instead.For the love of all that's good, read the responses here, recognize how many people are planning to drop you like you're hot if you go this way, and reconsider. Your core audience and your planned new target market do not match, and your planned new target market is fickle AF.
(DIR) Post #Ajjk2kCYUcOMCDRtD6 by kdwarn@fosstodon.org
2024-07-09T00:04:47Z
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@protonprivacy include me in the many that will stop paying for proton if this is introduced.
(DIR) Post #Ajk8bC0C2EZtADcqps by devwatcher@social.tchncs.de
2024-07-09T04:40:19Z
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@protonprivacy Thanks for this overview Proton. One question. Do you think there are AI features that are more part of an OS then any application and the other way around? I think of Apples new spell checking, which is everywhere in the OS. On the other hand a search like feature within Mail or Drive makes sense to me.
(DIR) Post #AjkAt24rsBYfVJRl2G by aphowell@wandering.shop
2024-07-09T05:05:58Z
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@protonprivacy I'm deeply disappointed that you're repeating the talking points of the latest tech grift. I can't help but think it bodes ill for future Proton product development (to say nothing of the ethical and environmental concerns).
(DIR) Post #AjkTdM4XfCSu0pX3WC by ExYZed@cupoftea.social
2024-07-09T08:36:01Z
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@protonprivacy I have an Unlimited Proton plan. Like others on this thread I will cancel if you introduce AI into your products.
(DIR) Post #AjkUNzhUeuP8EozU6S by highway2009@mastodon.social
2024-07-09T08:44:29Z
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@protonprivacy I am definitively interested as long as it stays local. This is the only way of remaining privacy-focused and local LLM are good enough today for most of the tasks. phi3 for instance can run on a 3 year old smartphone, easily.
(DIR) Post #AjkYeLht0VMywJEEDY by jrballesteros05@social.linux.pizza
2024-07-09T09:32:14Z
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@protonprivacy You cannot talk about LLM's "privacy" because you ARE NOT private in the first place.
(DIR) Post #AjkjMxLHRLAfwlZ0oC by niboe@spore.social
2024-07-09T11:32:19Z
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@protonprivacyAI does not have productivity effects. i do not want AI in my proton suite. keep developing your existing apps, they need work.
(DIR) Post #Ajn3gn2TqMNlBPQPKa by chat@fosstodon.org
2024-07-10T14:28:29Z
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@protonprivacy disappointing to see Proton wasting resources on AI hype when their existing services are still underdeveloped and lack feature parity with market leaders.
(DIR) Post #Ak3x7NSme1f6Jk1bSi by VileLasagna@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-07-18T18:05:50Z
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@protonprivacy Well, I was recently introduced to Proton and, for a bunch of reasons, was ready to sign up for all of the goodies. But this here is an absolute dealbreaker. Time to go on the hunt againFling this garbage straight into the sun. Even entertaining this idea is a joke in the face of Proton branding itself as "privacy focused". You're testing the waters for pushing Automated Theft Machines into your services and want me to sign up to your VPN?Yeah, I don't think I will
(DIR) Post #Ak4S3QwIsLrcWFQq4O by 3AM@ohai.social
2024-07-18T23:52:33Z
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@protonprivacy just don't :sad_cat:
(DIR) Post #Ak4wBpZGBn7tqOZdPk by gkrnours@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-07-19T05:30:14Z
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@protonprivacy wow, the unsubscribe process sure is a pain. There were like 3 screens I didn't read before getting a form so I can tell you AI can go to hell
(DIR) Post #Ak60YjVvSOfwhh9NJ2 by gavin57@toot.wales
2024-07-19T17:36:53Z
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@protonprivacy "LLMs are incredible tools, and we’ve only begun to scratch the surface of what they can do."I think we have more than scratched the surface. It's just bullshit at scale. It cannot be trusted to be factual; its creations are worthless; and it is just filling the internet with slop, making the people who used to enjoy the internet increasingly despondent...even angry.
(DIR) Post #Ak62ytxpQUpmYFo7Lk by WhiskeySailor@history.lol
2024-07-19T18:04:34Z
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@protonprivacy just going to destroy your reputation for privacy and safety for AI fad uh?
(DIR) Post #Ak636NE91bzZKw0BYu by radicalrobit@laserdisc.party
2024-07-19T18:06:18Z
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@protonprivacy "Being used for productivity benefits" Facts not evidence.
(DIR) Post #AkCM190VWzFBrcbRa4 by vkc@linuxmom.net
2024-07-22T19:22:24Z
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@protonprivacy Hi there! I'm a visionary subscriber, have been for years. Generally impressed with your work.Have you offered a climate impact statement for your "AI" tool? I'm concerned about the climate impacts of this new feature of ProtonMail.
(DIR) Post #AkCOZMPUPCYzBcjOqm by greg@aus.social
2024-07-22T19:50:21Z
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@protonprivacy Customer here. No thank you. I hate ChatGPT. Please never. Never ever. Thanks for listening to my feedback!
(DIR) Post #AkCq5DRpxXxtQ6FAau by Brahn@hachyderm.io
2024-07-23T00:59:29Z
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@protonprivacy I don't think anyone actually read the article. It's a good fucking article.