Post AjgPhFio2XPd1f82dM by TomSwirly@toot.community
(DIR) More posts by TomSwirly@toot.community
(DIR) Post #AjeMPTsdyHj3Xye1UO by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2024-07-06T09:41:27Z
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My erstwhile colleague (I've retired, he hasn't) offers an obituary for the Conservative Party.#tories #politics https://northwestbylines.co.uk/politics/the-conservative-party-1832-2024-an-obituary/
(DIR) Post #AjeMPVCt2VVpf37hgG by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-06T09:46:52Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 Like Phoenix it will rise from the ashes. Maybe in its next reincarnation the party will be more libertarian and less clownish? Libertarianism is what europe need unless it wants to die the death of socialism by over regulation, and just become a tourist resort for the rest of the world.
(DIR) Post #AjeNRo3A3HjqdSEjYW by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-06T09:58:28Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 Because libertarianism has worked out so well for the United States?I spent thirty years in the United States. It's good to be affluent there. But the bottom half of society lives terribly badlyI had two friends die of exposure, both because of mental health issues that they were unable to get treatment for. Many people literally get no paid time off at all. People routinely die from being unable to afford insulin or other very regular medicine.
(DIR) Post #AjePpFkTR2o56rntei by amerika@annihilation.social
2024-07-06T10:24:52.276551Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 We need freedom from the wealth transfer. They call it by many names, but it starts with pity, which is basically fear of natural selection.
(DIR) Post #AjeUUuAcS83AAI9LbU by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2024-07-06T11:17:22Z
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@h4890 Well, there'll be a few stages to pass through before that becomes a likely prospect...
(DIR) Post #AjfQ4KcRnrH3iXCQfw by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-06T22:02:35Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Just look at the GDP (ppp) per capita for europe and the US. Better society in the US, no argument against that possible. A few might be worse off in the US, but many are way better off than in europe. As for people dead, in sweden people are dieing all the time since the socialist health care sector is just full of people waiting in line. At least in the US you can pay for medical care without dieing in a line somewhere.
(DIR) Post #AjgJWXrZePfCNck01o by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T08:23:56Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 > No argument against that possibleYou could read what I wrote and refute it instead of spouting garbage.GDP per capita is a terrible measure because it doesn't take into account income inequality. Bill Gates walks into a bar and suddenly everyone is a millionaire - on average.As I said, I lived for thirty years in the US, and thirty years in Europe.America is great if you are affluent, and terrible for everyone else.1/
(DIR) Post #AjgPhFio2XPd1f82dM by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T08:29:50Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 > the socialist health care sectorAs I mentioned, and you ignored, people die in the street from easily treatable medical conditions every day in the US.I'm curious - how do you explain the greater life expectancies in Europe, compared with the United States? The fact that the suicide rate in the US is almost 50% higher than in Europe? Or that the US murder rate is over three times higher than Europe?2/
(DIR) Post #AjgPhGLnhYbWybNBPk by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T08:35:06Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 As for freedom, the freedoms I had in America where not the ones I wanted: to own a gun, to die in the street if I ran out of money, to emit hate speech.Here I have the right to privacy. I have a social safety net.I moved back to Europe for a better life, and I got it. I can't imagine ever returning to the United States, with all those miserable, angry, and unhealthy people.
(DIR) Post #AjgPhGWn2hOXWgVxXk by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:33:06Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Dieing in the street can be ok. The key question is, do they die as socialist wage slaves or as free? I'd rather die free than live as a slave, because without freedom, true happiness can never be possible. When you say social safety net, what you _really_ say is that you like other people to be forced to work for you, so that you can enjoy life. You are making other people your slaves to fund your life.
(DIR) Post #AjgPhlqMbyTIeMuWrA by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:33:13Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 That is an unethical society. An ethical society can only be based on free, informed, consent, and even though the US is far from that today, the US is in infinitely better shape than europe from that point of view.
(DIR) Post #AjgPqXxFcTDSBGJi7M by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:34:48Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 So death, or suicide or gun violence, might or might not be higher, but the society based on tax burden, is way more ethical in the US since it by that very fact, makes people less slaves, than in europe. There is a very wise saying you should think about... "live free or die".
(DIR) Post #AjgQD8eDsNReLxBnSy by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T09:38:51Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 > Dieing in the street can be ok.Actually, I was extremely unhappy when my friends died, and I don't think they were happy to die that way.But you can go ahead.> do they die as socialist wage slaves or as free?They died as miserable, filthy homeless people, with serious mental health issues from lack medical care.> You are making other people your slaves to fund your life.You too seem to have mental health issues. I suggest therapy.
(DIR) Post #AjgQT9m1SShuThTXzE by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T09:41:44Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 > There is a very wise saying you should think about... "live free or die".Thanks, but I don't need your poorly-informed, politically evil advice.How long, exactly, did you live in the United States?Here's a couple of proverbs for you: "The grass is always greener on the other side." "Out of the frying pan, into the fire." "A fool and his money are soon parted."Sorry for sounding angry, but I wasn't happy my friends died, and you touting this as freedom is bullshit.
(DIR) Post #AjgQUHkhHNEvVrOTdg by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:41:59Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Same to you! =)
(DIR) Post #AjgQa48Uogzh1LHXRA by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T09:43:00Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 Why exactly do you think deaths of despair are so much greater in the United States than in Europe?Because people are totally miserable.Just seeing the kids here in Europe makes my heart happy - cheerful, carefree kids. Kids in America are miserable and neurotic and live in fear.
(DIR) Post #AjgQgkRyPGZ7zdZwH2 by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:44:14Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Death is part of life. Your individual experience is not enough to throw a data or freedom over board. I have lived in the US, and I have studied a lot. I think the best study guide I can give you that explains why the US is so great, is Johan Norbergs The Capitalist Manifesto. There you will learn that we live in a golden age. You will also learn that freedom has nothing to do with anyone never dieing. It has to do with being free.
(DIR) Post #AjgQouvDMCc0mr9R6O by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:45:43Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Socialist societies like europe are built on violence and unethical behaviour such as stealing to fund politicians salaries and social "safety" nets. The result is that people become wage slaves, forced to work to fund the pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal unless governments do it. The US is not a perfect libertarian country, far from it, but way better than europe. People die, and that is life. People have died in everything from no government, to
(DIR) Post #AjgQxHmeF18m0a8QIy by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:47:14Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 national socialist governments. The fact that people die, unless they were put to death by the government, has nothing to do with how ethical a given system is, as long as the government is not the one doing the killing. Since many low income earners are lock into their bad jobs for life, with little upwards mobility in europe, due to the high taxes, which makes saving and becoming rich very difficult, it can be argued that they die due to hard work which was forced
(DIR) Post #AjgR7Am99TyPAXcB84 by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:49:01Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 on them by the government. At the end of the day, this come down to individual, subjective values, or else we would by now, have settled one form of government. You seem to value socialism higher. How to you reconcile the fact that taxation is theft if steal from you. But if I put on a government hat, it is ok? Or it is illegal for me to kill you, but if I put on a government hat, and invent a good reason, it is ok. That is basically governments in a nutshell
(DIR) Post #AjgR9tz62NkTxdyPHE by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T09:49:31Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 and I can never endorse a government or system of government which is based, ultimately, on violence.
(DIR) Post #AjgTsdGrDyhP43jnoO by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T10:19:58Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 US law enforcement kills its own citizens at a rate that's well over ten times that of Europe.https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/I have personally seen US police beat a (Black) man into unconsciousness simply for talking back.Once when we were in Berlin, we lost a lost child crying. Then he saw two police officers. He made a bee-line for them. 1/
(DIR) Post #Ajh5Uxv6b23mPmhmc4 by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-07-07T17:21:31.612004Z
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Weird to leverage your friend's mental health issues to give your argument emotional weight, and then in the same 500char post, turn around and use the casual accusation of mental unwellness as a derogatory smear against your interocular.Does the hypocrisy and/or cheapening the salience of mental illness to win meaningless internet points not bother you at all?
(DIR) Post #Ajh8GWymGSJgfTEPce by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T17:41:24Z
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@nicholas @h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 Not in the slightest. I am absolutely certain that both my friends who died would support me entirely on this matter.I really don't appreciate being told that "dying in the street can be OK", I detest the idea that a society that takes care of its weakest members is a slave state, in exactly the same way that I don't appreciate the unsolicited personal insults and lack of reasoning from you.
(DIR) Post #Ajh8GXm3JFjR8IHlQW by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-07-07T17:52:31.430628Z
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What insult? What lack of reasoning? I literally just compared your own statements. Do you think it is a personal insult when someone points out your hypocrisy? If so, I daresay the insult lays in making the hypocritical statement, not in the pointing of it out.
(DIR) Post #AjhC7wqX7blc6TXQdU by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T18:35:47Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 I've seen plenty of happy kids in the US and plenty of miserable kids in europe. This dicussion leads to nothing but a waste of time.
(DIR) Post #AjhCJsxtNVLfXafkqO by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T18:37:57Z
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@TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 That actually supports my position. The police represent the government and I am against the government. Classic example of government evil.
(DIR) Post #AjhCefzYo5aHO2Mmu0 by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T18:41:41Z
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@nicholas @TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Let me assure you both that I'm not the least affected by any individual sob stories when it comes to the argument, as well as any insults. This is the fediverse where you get raw, untfiltered humanity, and if that's too much for anyone, then there's always the daycare center of moderated facebook. ;) That's why I am on liberdon which is extremely non filtered and non moderated. =) But since I also live in europe, I'm used to being shouted at, assaulted
(DIR) Post #AjhCiVDwmeuh9Hv7jM by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T18:42:24Z
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@nicholas @TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 and threatened by socialist and extreme leftist when ever I talk about libertarian or conservative views. So online or offline, I'm used to extreme reactions to my views. ;)
(DIR) Post #AjhCvNrZSkla5Gb2HY by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T18:44:43Z
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@nicholas @TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 And in terms of reasoning I explained how social safety nets funded by tax payers is equivalent to slavery and forcing other to work for you. I have never received a coherent reply to that, except, individual sob stories and statements that "I don't like...".
(DIR) Post #AjhD28vzMkGLoIsyq8 by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-07-07T18:45:57.494396Z
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Rest assured, I wasn't saying *you* were the hypocrite, if there was confusion on that score.
(DIR) Post #AjhDGwGEleKCqePbDE by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T18:48:37Z
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@nicholas @TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Sorry, I was being unclear, my comment was directed against Tom. Apologies! Mastodon really sucks when it comes to discussions. =)
(DIR) Post #AjhHju62IHT0LjhvNo by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T19:38:39Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 Good luck in your magical country without laws!
(DIR) Post #AjhJLrca2oeFdDauy8 by TomSwirly@toot.community
2024-07-07T19:33:02Z
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@nicholas @h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 The word "hypocrite" is, as we both know, an insult.Got anything useful? Facts, logic, reasoning, a rational argument, citations to peer reviewed journals?One of the things I like about Mastodon is that most of the people here are rational adults who are respectful of others.Please consider Twitter for future posts.
(DIR) Post #AjhJLsidxl5n2JRH3g by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-07-07T19:56:44.650373Z
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You misunderstand: "Hypocrisy" is merely acknowledging a state of performative contradiction between your actions and stated argument. It is a leveled against your chain of reasoning in light of your own behavior, not impugning your character.As, for instance, when you state that you are a "respectful" but casually hurl ad hominem slanders at your interlocutors, or claim to be "a rational adult", but don't seem to understand what a logical contradiction means, then you can be said to "be hypocritical" without malice or disrespect, neither of which I have shown you at any point during our conversation.I suggest you calm down and examine your own conduct in light of the kind of interaction you purport to wish to foster.
(DIR) Post #AjhP0OGMbPFGDpLY8W by h4890@liberdon.com
2024-07-07T21:00:04Z
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@nicholas @TomSwirly @ChrisMayLA6 Best and most mature post I read today! =)